Oh no way, it'd been long enough since I played for the card that I thought the activation cost was just phyrexian mana. I don't know if you can actually turn 3 with it in that case, but either way the problem with the card has nothing to do with potential for turn 3 kills anyway.
Fundamental level, jajajaj, I'm not idiot man, where are the admins here?
I assume you said about the same about Jace and BBE. Powerlevel has changed. Would you kill before turn 4 with POD? hint: NO.
Shut up your mouth.
I feel it is necessary to point out it's counterproductive to ask for an admin while later
telling someone to shut their mouth.
Pod was a fun card back during the inception of Modern but each new set printed comes with another chance to break the card even further through a combo or just pure value.
Some unban requests amaze me, and it just always looks like people want modern and legacy to be the same thing.
Yes, because legacy is full of POD, is going to be obnoxious. Need a ban soon.
Twin isnt banned in Legacy either, but formats are different ya?
Regardless, certain cards (TC, Pod, Twin, probably Dig) are never going to be free in Modern again, because they are known quantities. This isnt like the unfounded (and embarrassing at this point) Jace fear.
Yeah, Treasure cruise would be fine in modern too,
Did u play during the era when it was legal?
Yes, of course. There is not GP, TC would be powerful, but it won't break the format, would put delver back to tier. At the moment of banning was at 10% and lowing numbers, now, we have a TC with legs,
I think you don't know nothing about this format.
This time I'm going to shut my mouth
Delver would not be the only deck that would be powered up with Treasure Cruise.
What is GP? do you mean Modern Grand Prix?
How do you make a giant leap to "you know nothing of the format"? Because i want TC and Pod to stay banned lol wtf.
The definition of format warping is when the entire meta game revolves around that card. Delver was 10% but there were other decks that were dominate with TC in it, like Jeskai Ascendency Combo. Not only the decks that existed at the time, but decks that has emerged in the current meta running U would almost certannily run it. The decks would be built to incorpaorate Treasure Cruise. Sidboards would run graveyard hate to combat that single card instead of the archtype. It would warp the format, as it actually proved to do in the past.
The same thing can be said wiht pod. It is entirely different than Jace, as Jace was never actually in the format. Instead of people theorizing about Jace, with Pod and Treasure Cruise we actually had the card in the format. Pod was in since inception. There is multiple data on these cards
Loooooot of Ponza. We'll see if they get as lucky as the winner of Dallas and dodge Storm for 2 days straight, but I doubt there'll be too many in the Top 8. I feel like the Ponza spike will influence people away from 4-color/Tron shenanigans, and into Control/Midrange territory. So my prediction:
It feels like it's been a while since people forgot their stony silences and Affinity went on a rampage. So I'm calling that.
*nods head*
i could totally see that happening. people will probably rationalize cutting artifact hate thinking more k-commands in the field will keep them in check.
the field could be ripe for robots to start kickin in some doors and reminding people why its been a tier 1 deck for the last 10 years.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I have the impression that Ponza will stick around for a while. A significant portion of the playerbase is reluctant to admit that they might have to put more basic lands in their manabases and is going to pretend that a bunch of fetchlands is enough to give them protection only to have their lone basics destroyed in subsequent turns. Even low manacurve decks can get caught by a turn 2 Blood Moon.
Linear monocolored decks like Takin's Turns or Infect could be a good meta call.
Should be interesting either way. I dont think Jace is 'breakable' in the format. I'd love for Turns to Top 8. I hate the abuse I get when I play it, but its one of my favorite decks.
I think Shadow is a known entity, I dont think it will crush things now, too many other options, and people are going wide with Token's in a number of match ups.
Honestly, I was in the camp that unbanning JTMS was a bad thing, but now after seeing him in action I don't think he does enough. It's just really hard to play a control deck well and it might take a long time to find a place for the card.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've been saying for years that Jace would be a "waste" of a big unban, and that releasing him would likely not result in much since he is a slow, 4cmc planeswalker. He's fine and should be in the format, but all the fanfare and hype behind him was extremely misplaced. Without Daze/Force to protect (or better/faster win conditions) he's just another thing to do in mediocre blue decks to add a few % points. Hardly game-breaking by any means, but at least mildly more impactful than the also-totally-underwhelming Ancestral Vision.
Its still a good card, but for the 'pro's' to flip out like they did was pretty embarrassing. Anyone who play's control should have been able to see the impact it would have.
Its still a good card, but for the 'pro's' to flip out like they did was pretty embarrassing. Anyone who play's control should have been able to see the impact it would have.
Honestly, I think a lot of why people thought JTMS would be horrible for Modern was because of how ridiculous JTMS was in Standard. However sometimes people forget there is a big difference between what is good in Standard, and what is good in an eternal environment.
Its still a good card, but for the 'pro's' to flip out like they did was pretty embarrassing. Anyone who play's control should have been able to see the impact it would have.
Honestly, I think a lot of why people thought JTMS would be horrible for Modern was because of how ridiculous JTMS was in Standard. However sometimes people forget there is a big difference between what is good in Standard, and what is good in an eternal environment.
I mean it's a fair reason to have that fear. Jace completely busted his nut all over Standard for half a year. He had to be banned for crying out loud. However it wasn't just Jace himself that was so good. If you think about it, if Jace was the complete menace everyone seems to remember him being, why is it a deck with him didn't completely unbalance the format until Caw-Blade?
It wasn't just Jace was was absurd in Standard. It was Jace + SFM, + Batterskull + Squadron Hawk + efficient removal and counters, in a Standard environment, where all of the previously mentioend cards were the most powerful things you could be doing.
Compare that list to what is available for Modern. SFM is banned, as such Batterskull is mediocre, Hawk is laughably bad, and while the format has efficient removal, the counters are nowhere near strong enough.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
I mean it's a fair reason to have that fear. Jace completely busted his nut all over Standard for half a year. He had to be banned for crying out loud. However it wasn't just Jace himself that was so good. If you think about it, if Jace was the complete menace everyone seems to remember him being, why is it a deck with him didn't completely unbalance the format until Caw-Blade?
It wasn't just Jace was was absurd in Standard. It was Jace + SFM, + Batterskull + Squadron Hawk + efficient removal and counters, in a Standard environment, where all of the previously mentioend cards were the most powerful things you could be doing.
Compare that list to what is available for Modern. SFM is banned, as such Batterskull is mediocre, Hawk is laughably bad, and while the format has efficient removal, the counters are nowhere near strong enough.
It's somewhat reasonable to have that fear, especially considering Jace, the Mind Sculptor is solid in Legacy. But, to let that fear control current bannings and unbannings in a different format is unacceptable to me. Everyone knows by now that I am down for nearly any unban and certainly cards that don't currently "break" Modern.
In Standard, Jace before the package was UW Control. There were many lists that even utilized a UW "Tapout" Control. A local player, Tommy Depew, was the first person that I ever saw play a tapout Control style. I had my doubts, but eventually adopted whichever list was more powerful at the time. I ran UW Control for nearly that whole time, but had moved on to Valakut decks, as they just CRUUUUSHED UW until B Skull and more importantly, Sword of Feast and Famine, wrecked it. Jace ended up getting banned. UW Control was STILL the best deck, but other decks stood a chance. Wizards literally tried to just "make it" to the rotation so they wouldn't have to do any bannings, but attendance got SO BAD. They had to ban, with just 1 month until rotation. But confidence had been severely hurt. I think all of that contributed to players thinking that JTMS is too busted for Modern. I will admit that even I thought that Jace was better than BBE, but then I am super biased (being an old school U player whose enemy was Jund). I think many players are realizing that Modern is a hostile environment for Jace, Jace wins games that have been stabilized otherwise, and that a card being played in Legacy doesn't necessarily mean it's too good for Modern. There are still some players who think that Jace will be banned, but the numbers are dwindling...
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Wizards literally tried to just "make it" to the rotation so they wouldn't have to do any bannings, but attendance got SO BAD. They had to ban, with just 1 month until rotation. But confidence had been severely hurt.
Jace was banned in June, rotation was September. That's three months, not one.
Was confidence really hurt that much, though? I don't really recall a lack of confidence after Innistrad was released, though I'll admit I wasn't paying too much attention to competitive until Dark Ascension was out.
Wizards literally tried to just "make it" to the rotation so they wouldn't have to do any bannings, but attendance got SO BAD. They had to ban, with just 1 month until rotation. But confidence had been severely hurt.
Jace was banned in June, rotation was September. That's three months, not one.
Was confidence really hurt that much, though? I don't really recall a lack of confidence after Innistrad was released, though I'll admit I wasn't paying too much attention to competitive until Dark Ascension was out.
Probably happened at the end of June then and the beginning of September. I know it felt like a pretty short time. Yes, confidence was destroyed because players believed that it should have been banned earlier. Then they assumed it was "safe" since it wasn't banned. And then they basically "emergency banned" it in an attempt to make attendance go up. (Attendance being at an all time low was proof that confidence was already lost.) Then players who deemed it safe until rotation lost out too. You have to remember that this was years before Cat Combo, Marvel, and other occurrences in Standard. Nowadays we as customers just assume that this will happen from time to time and there's even WotC empathizers ("they have an impetus to print strong cards, but get shamed when they have to ban").
Confidence came back when Innistrad was released. I hate a lot of Limited formats, but even I have to admit that Innistrad limited was probably in the top 3 of all time, if not better than that. Then the set itself was super strong too. Yes, there were problems like Butcher's Cleaver/Invisible Stalker in Limited, but outside of small problems, Innistrad was a godsend. Even Avacyn Restored and Dark Ascension were very good sets.
Private Mod Note
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I think a lot of the "pros" that went crazy about the Jace unban was basically click bait material. Traffic and sales probably went through the roof at SCG for a week or two
I think a lot of the "pros" that went crazy about the Jace unban was basically click bait material. Traffic and sales probably went through the roof at SCG for a week or two
We'll see how much that continues after his miserable performance this weekend at the GP.
Did u play during the era when it was legal?
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
I feel it is necessary to point out it's counterproductive to ask for an admin while later
telling someone to shut their mouth.
Pod was a fun card back during the inception of Modern but each new set printed comes with another chance to break the card even further through a combo or just pure value.
Twin isnt banned in Legacy either, but formats are different ya?
Regardless, certain cards (TC, Pod, Twin, probably Dig) are never going to be free in Modern again, because they are known quantities. This isnt like the unfounded (and embarrassing at this point) Jace fear.
Spirits
Delver would not be the only deck that would be powered up with Treasure Cruise.
What is GP? do you mean Modern Grand Prix?
How do you make a giant leap to "you know nothing of the format"? Because i want TC and Pod to stay banned lol wtf.
The definition of format warping is when the entire meta game revolves around that card. Delver was 10% but there were other decks that were dominate with TC in it, like Jeskai Ascendency Combo. Not only the decks that existed at the time, but decks that has emerged in the current meta running U would almost certannily run it. The decks would be built to incorpaorate Treasure Cruise. Sidboards would run graveyard hate to combat that single card instead of the archtype. It would warp the format, as it actually proved to do in the past.
The same thing can be said wiht pod. It is entirely different than Jace, as Jace was never actually in the format. Instead of people theorizing about Jace, with Pod and Treasure Cruise we actually had the card in the format. Pod was in since inception. There is multiple data on these cards
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Spirits
Jund. Jund...everywhere.
a death shadow deck makes the top 8
4 or 5 copies of jund in the top 32, with only 1 in the top 8
burn makes a comeback
2 jace decks in the top 8
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
*nods head*
i could totally see that happening. people will probably rationalize cutting artifact hate thinking more k-commands in the field will keep them in check.
the field could be ripe for robots to start kickin in some doors and reminding people why its been a tier 1 deck for the last 10 years.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Linear monocolored decks like Takin's Turns or Infect could be a good meta call.
I'm making a prediction that a shadow deck of some sort spikes, because people think that modern is more diverse than it really is.
That's my prediction. Unless someone really cracks a Jace shell, Shadow is looking well positioned against to me.
I think Shadow is a known entity, I dont think it will crush things now, too many other options, and people are going wide with Token's in a number of match ups.
Spirits
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Spirits
Honestly, I think a lot of why people thought JTMS would be horrible for Modern was because of how ridiculous JTMS was in Standard. However sometimes people forget there is a big difference between what is good in Standard, and what is good in an eternal environment.
*psst* unban Dread Return
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
As one of those people who fell victim to this mindset, I think it's basically just PTSD from that 6 months of Jace, haha.
It wasn't just Jace was was absurd in Standard. It was Jace + SFM, + Batterskull + Squadron Hawk + efficient removal and counters, in a Standard environment, where all of the previously mentioend cards were the most powerful things you could be doing.
Compare that list to what is available for Modern. SFM is banned, as such Batterskull is mediocre, Hawk is laughably bad, and while the format has efficient removal, the counters are nowhere near strong enough.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
It's somewhat reasonable to have that fear, especially considering Jace, the Mind Sculptor is solid in Legacy. But, to let that fear control current bannings and unbannings in a different format is unacceptable to me. Everyone knows by now that I am down for nearly any unban and certainly cards that don't currently "break" Modern.
In Standard, Jace before the package was UW Control. There were many lists that even utilized a UW "Tapout" Control. A local player, Tommy Depew, was the first person that I ever saw play a tapout Control style. I had my doubts, but eventually adopted whichever list was more powerful at the time. I ran UW Control for nearly that whole time, but had moved on to Valakut decks, as they just CRUUUUSHED UW until B Skull and more importantly, Sword of Feast and Famine, wrecked it. Jace ended up getting banned. UW Control was STILL the best deck, but other decks stood a chance. Wizards literally tried to just "make it" to the rotation so they wouldn't have to do any bannings, but attendance got SO BAD. They had to ban, with just 1 month until rotation. But confidence had been severely hurt. I think all of that contributed to players thinking that JTMS is too busted for Modern. I will admit that even I thought that Jace was better than BBE, but then I am super biased (being an old school U player whose enemy was Jund). I think many players are realizing that Modern is a hostile environment for Jace, Jace wins games that have been stabilized otherwise, and that a card being played in Legacy doesn't necessarily mean it's too good for Modern. There are still some players who think that Jace will be banned, but the numbers are dwindling...
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Was confidence really hurt that much, though? I don't really recall a lack of confidence after Innistrad was released, though I'll admit I wasn't paying too much attention to competitive until Dark Ascension was out.
Probably happened at the end of June then and the beginning of September. I know it felt like a pretty short time. Yes, confidence was destroyed because players believed that it should have been banned earlier. Then they assumed it was "safe" since it wasn't banned. And then they basically "emergency banned" it in an attempt to make attendance go up. (Attendance being at an all time low was proof that confidence was already lost.) Then players who deemed it safe until rotation lost out too. You have to remember that this was years before Cat Combo, Marvel, and other occurrences in Standard. Nowadays we as customers just assume that this will happen from time to time and there's even WotC empathizers ("they have an impetus to print strong cards, but get shamed when they have to ban").
Confidence came back when Innistrad was released. I hate a lot of Limited formats, but even I have to admit that Innistrad limited was probably in the top 3 of all time, if not better than that. Then the set itself was super strong too. Yes, there were problems like Butcher's Cleaver/Invisible Stalker in Limited, but outside of small problems, Innistrad was a godsend. Even Avacyn Restored and Dark Ascension were very good sets.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)We'll see how much that continues after his miserable performance this weekend at the GP.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate