I wonder if Jund would stop playing fulminator mage for this.
We'd have no answers to manlands against control decks. Azcanta would be harder to answer, too. This also shuts BBE down, which is relevant when we need that CA. Boarding this in against Jund is bad, though
I wonder if Jund would stop playing fulminator mage for this.
We'd have no answers to manlands against control decks. Azcanta would be harder to answer, too. This also shuts BBE down, which is relevant when we need that CA. Boarding this in against Jund is bad, though
I'm already thinking there could be a deck to build around this though. Some kind of semi-stasis...
I just don't know if this is a 3 or 4 of in Jund. Fulminators come in for a lot nowadays. We shave most of it not all removal against blue decks
It's possible Jund could do a 2-2 split. This mainly just hits Tron, Storm and E-Tron.
This could also cut down on the nonsense Hollow One does, but only on the play. They can still faithless looting and play a 4/4 on turn 2
I think it's less a boon for Jund, which has a strong disruption suite to begin with, but a big coup for a lot of other decks that didn't have access to these effects in the first place. UW has a good land disruption suite MD (4 Field and up to 4 Spreading Seas), but really didn't have much it could board in. Now bring 2-3 of these in and you're taxing their mana beyond the breaking point, while also hitting Storm and Ad Naus (which is especially problematic because Pact of Negation lets them win most if not all permission wars).
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
you guys realize that its a card right? like you have to draw it, which means it takes the place of some other spell you coulda drawn, then you have to spend mana to cast it.
seriously this artifact is only remotely playable against a very specific set of decks. it does nothing to affect the board, and you are down a card. think about how much total mana you would have to 'tax' your opponent, or how many plays you would have to delay to recoup the cost of playing the card.
oh yeah and its also symmetrical. so you slow down your own progress.
oh no. my snapcaster + bolt play costs 1 more mana! you got me!
be reasonable people.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
i could see death and taxes working because they can leverage vial to circumvent the drawback.
the thing is though. its a permanent on the battlefield. its trivial to play around, and only punishing if they can leverage the tempo to advance their boardstate/gameplan - which they cant because they also cant cast spells quicker.
edit: also since it only counts the turn, decks that can play at instant speed are better at mitigating the effect.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
In other news, Wizard Tribal looks like it could be a hell of a lot of fun. I also like that the new Mox isn't just super busted right out of the gate. My 8whack deck that's been collecting dust might actually get some mileage out of some of the goblin stuff in Dominaria. Enemy check lands are meh, but great budget stuff.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
the real winners are these slow grindy artifact decks, which have just an abysmal tron/storm matchup. not folding to tron gives them more breathing space to beat up on fair decks with their various value engines.
im diggin the saga cards though, pretty sweet flavor if you ask me. hope one is pushed enough to see play somewhere in the format.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Will my Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas deck finally be good!?
But anyway I don't think this that good against blue in general, softer than other hate you can bring in? Seems like it would benefit blue control the most because it hits the two worst matchups for one card (Storm, Tron). Don't know if it's "Broken" per se though.
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Modern UWUW ControlUW UGWSpiritsUGW GHardened ScalesG WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
The card will be bad against fair decks. Thalia is good because she is a creature.
This card will not instantly win you the game against Tron and they will be packing ancient grudges to remove it.
It's a strong hate card that will slow them down but even if you thoughtseize then grudge from their hand they can still flash it back.
It will slow them down but unless you get very aggressive very quickly they will have time to find that grudge to kill it.
Most decks that would want to run this would either be playing counter-spells or welding jar.
I do think this card has potential against "Fair decks" especially in the right shell.
It makes counter-spells and blood-braid elf really awkward. Especially when you only have zero to one CC spells.
My gripe with this new Ball thing is that it actually will effect Storm way more than Tron within the metagame. The reason for this is because Tron can Ostone it away (this seems like a slightly better Blood Moon) or even eventually just get a bunch of lands out to deal with something like this, but against Storm the card basically says "your opponent can't win the game." This is nothing new to Storm, as there are a plethora of cards that say "you can't win the game," and Storm players are very used to this. But why does another card like this need to exist? Why not just make it have the first part of the card?
The major problem is that now this card hits two major archetypes in the format. One of the perks of playing Storm is that while it has silver bullet cards like Rule of Law and Eidolon of Rhetoric (any many other), those cards are both very narrow and it negatively effects both players. This is very important. You might ask "why does Storm's hate only have to exist in very narrow instances?" Well, thats easy. No other archetype has a card that says "you can't win the game" besides Dredge, on top of having to deal with anti graveyard hate (all of witch are low effort cards, e.g. cards that fit into any deck very easily.) that severely gimps the deck while simultaneously hitting other decks.
My other problem with this card is that every sideboard besides Storm and Tron will have at least 1 slot dedicated to this card.
I'd rather this format not be all about drawing sideboard cards like it was in the past.
How are you guys feeling about the designing of the cards in general? I have no clue how many allstars we have for modern in this set, but is the direction the design team moving towards feeling good or hopeful for MTG and modern?
They seemed to add interesting effects and answers. Nothing is looking like a card that looks trash that the design team was like, "you modern players will love this!"
Also, either WOTC somehow only has information on lockdown when it comes to punishments, but this is now two standard sets leaked super early and nothing to suggest that anyone is being held responsible. It is stunning, if my company had private financial info or anything leak, hell we just went public and if that somehow got out, management would be screaming so loud that people down the street would know something was very wrong. Yet I can't give them credit for keeping it close to the vest when they can't keep the damn cards secret.
Here's a weird thought though, and I'm looking way too far ahead, but if that artifact becomes the new ramp hate to play vs eldrazi and tron, valakut becomes much more dangerous.
My gripe with this new Ball thing is that it actually will effect Storm way more than Tron within the metagame. The reason for this is because Tron can Ostone it away (this seems like a slightly better Blood Moon) or even eventually just get a bunch of lands out to deal with something like this, but against Storm the card basically says "your opponent can't win the game." This is nothing new to Storm, as there are a plethora of cards that say "you can't win the game," and Storm players are very used to this. But why does another card like this need to exist? Why not just make it have the first part of the card?
The major problem is that now this card hits two major archetypes in the format. One of the perks of playing Storm is that while it has silver bullet cards like Rule of Law and Eidolon of Rhetoric (any many other), those cards are both very narrow and it negatively effects both players. This is very important. You might ask "why does Storm's hate only have to exist in very narrow instances?" Well, thats easy. No other archetype has a card that says "you can't win the game" besides Dredge, on top of having to deal with anti graveyard hate (all of witch are low effort cards, e.g. cards that fit into any deck very easily.) that severely gimps the deck while simultaneously hitting other decks.
My other problem with this card is that every sideboard besides Storm and Tron will have at least 1 slot dedicated to this card.
I'd rather this format not be all about drawing sideboard cards like it was in the past.
I also don't see that the meta really needed this particular hate card so I'm a little bit baffled that if the design team was testing for modern how they would think this was a good thing to introduce into the format. Storm is deader than dead already, Tron is neither unbeatable for midrange decks nor is it putting up particularly impressive finishes, and Jund is probably the best deck in modern currently. I don't see why we would want to have a card that makes the (arguably) best deck better while also limiting the metagame's ability to respond to that deck and keep it in check. We will really have to see how things pan out and it's too early to say anything, but I don't like what I suspect this card will do to the overall health of the metagame at all.
My gripe with this new Ball thing is that it actually will effect Storm way more than Tron within the metagame. The reason for this is because Tron can Ostone it away (this seems like a slightly better Blood Moon) or even eventually just get a bunch of lands out to deal with something like this, but against Storm the card basically says "your opponent can't win the game." This is nothing new to Storm, as there are a plethora of cards that say "you can't win the game," and Storm players are very used to this. But why does another card like this need to exist? Why not just make it have the first part of the card?
The major problem is that now this card hits two major archetypes in the format. One of the perks of playing Storm is that while it has silver bullet cards like Rule of Law and Eidolon of Rhetoric (any many other), those cards are both very narrow and it negatively effects both players. This is very important. You might ask "why does Storm's hate only have to exist in very narrow instances?" Well, thats easy. No other archetype has a card that says "you can't win the game" besides Dredge, on top of having to deal with anti graveyard hate (all of witch are low effort cards, e.g. cards that fit into any deck very easily.) that severely gimps the deck while simultaneously hitting other decks.
My other problem with this card is that every sideboard besides Storm and Tron will have at least 1 slot dedicated to this card.
I'd rather this format not be all about drawing sideboard cards like it was in the past.
I also don't see that the meta really needed this particular hate card so I'm a little bit baffled that if the design team was testing for modern how they would think this was a good thing to introduce into the format. Storm is deader than dead already, Tron is neither unbeatable for midrange decks nor is it putting up particularly impressive finishes, and Jund is probably the best deck in modern currently. I don't see why we would want to have a card that makes the (arguably) best deck better while also limiting the metagame's ability to respond to that deck and keep it in check. We will really have to see how things pan out and it's too early to say anything, but I don't like what I suspect this card will do to the overall health of the metagame at all.
I think that its so universal that its just bad design. I don't want sideboard games being dictated by who drew more sideboard cards, like it used to be.
This is also very true. I would much prefer a scenario like we saw with the emergence of Death Shadow decks (full disclosure, I play traverse shadow) where midrange strategies adjusted their decks to be faster to compete with Tron and unfair combo rather than just sideboarding away their bad matchups. We saw the same thing with Jeskai control becoming Jeskai Queller, and with the reintroduction of Jace and BBE we were likely to see those matchups switching back to Jeskai control and BBE Jund to adapt to the slower meta. It seems a lot more interesting than just jamming the same 60 regardless and tuning your sideboard but that's a personal preference and maybe isn't shared with most people.
This is also very true. I would much prefer a scenario like we saw with the emergence of Death Shadow decks (full disclosure, I play traverse shadow) where midrange strategies adjusted their decks to be faster to compete with Tron and unfair combo rather than just sideboarding away their bad matchups. We saw the same thing with Jeskai control becoming Jeskai Queller, and with the reintroduction of Jace and BBE we were likely to see those matchups switching back to Jeskai control and BBE Jund to adapt to the slower meta. It seems a lot more interesting than just jamming the same 60 regardless and tuning your sideboard but that's a personal preference and maybe isn't shared with most people.
Agreed. Plus there's nothing wrong with having a couple of bad matchups. That's a pro grinder mentality of "let me be 50/50 or better against the field to minimize risk" One huge appeal to modern is how daring you can be. The decks that have won GPs over the last couple years are a testament to that. RG eldrazi with eldrazi obligator, lantern control, skred red, burn with shrine of burning rage and zero eidolon, f'ing bogles lol. It's ridiculous and awesome. I'd hate for it to turn into "okay, whose three color goodstuff drew slightly better over twelve damn turns."
Those 3 colour Goodstuffs have just as much right to win as 'plz dont make me play magic' Bogles.
Sure, and I don't think anyone is denying that. I'm of the opinion that those 3 colour goodstuff decks already do win a reasonable amount and my concern is more that we see the format being dominated by any one strategy in the future. I think the emergence of bogles and the recent explosion in popularity of Tron is a symptom of just how powerful midrange strategies have become in modern. We're somewhat seeing a meta right now where it's a perfectly viable strategy to say "my plan for this tournament is to just focus on beating midrange and lose to combo or aggro" and then still do quite well because decks like Storm, Counters Company, Infect, Ad Nauseum and the like are largely not competitively viable so you don't really have to do anything but be hard to interact with without interacting at all yourself.
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4c Traverse Shadow, RG Eldrazi, Death and Taxes
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We'd have no answers to manlands against control decks. Azcanta would be harder to answer, too. This also shuts BBE down, which is relevant when we need that CA. Boarding this in against Jund is bad, though
I'm already thinking there could be a deck to build around this though. Some kind of semi-stasis...
Spirits
I just don't know if this is a 3 or 4 of in Jund. Fulminators come in for a lot nowadays. We shave most of it not all removal against blue decks
It's possible Jund could do a 2-2 split. This mainly just hits Tron, Storm and E-Tron.
This could also cut down on the nonsense Hollow One does, but only on the play. They can still faithless looting and play a 4/4 on turn 2
I think it's less a boon for Jund, which has a strong disruption suite to begin with, but a big coup for a lot of other decks that didn't have access to these effects in the first place. UW has a good land disruption suite MD (4 Field and up to 4 Spreading Seas), but really didn't have much it could board in. Now bring 2-3 of these in and you're taxing their mana beyond the breaking point, while also hitting Storm and Ad Naus (which is especially problematic because Pact of Negation lets them win most if not all permission wars).
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
seriously this artifact is only remotely playable against a very specific set of decks. it does nothing to affect the board, and you are down a card. think about how much total mana you would have to 'tax' your opponent, or how many plays you would have to delay to recoup the cost of playing the card.
oh yeah and its also symmetrical. so you slow down your own progress.
oh no. my snapcaster + bolt play costs 1 more mana! you got me!
be reasonable people.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)ACTUALLY. Death and Taxes, if it can fit it, would be hell with this.
Further. Now.
Bolt, Snap, Bolt = 4 mana.
After.
Bolt, Snap, Bolt = 6 mana? Completely unreasonable. Counter wars? Forget it.
Spirits
the thing is though. its a permanent on the battlefield. its trivial to play around, and only punishing if they can leverage the tempo to advance their boardstate/gameplan - which they cant because they also cant cast spells quicker.
edit: also since it only counts the turn, decks that can play at instant speed are better at mitigating the effect.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Spirits
Ethersworn Canonist has a very similar effect, yet is basically nowhere to be seen.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Canonist is still the go-to method of sideboarding versus Storm for decks with white. I imagine this will replace it.
3 Canonist and 4 Leyline sided in against Storm is my version of hell.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Rule of Law and Eidolon of Rhetoric also exist.
the real winners are these slow grindy artifact decks, which have just an abysmal tron/storm matchup. not folding to tron gives them more breathing space to beat up on fair decks with their various value engines.
im diggin the saga cards though, pretty sweet flavor if you ask me. hope one is pushed enough to see play somewhere in the format.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)But anyway I don't think this that good against blue in general, softer than other hate you can bring in? Seems like it would benefit blue control the most because it hits the two worst matchups for one card (Storm, Tron). Don't know if it's "Broken" per se though.
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
It's actually 7 mana.
Bolt - R
Snap - 1U + 1
Bolt - R + 2
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Most decks that would want to run this would either be playing counter-spells or welding jar.
I do think this card has potential against "Fair decks" especially in the right shell.
It makes counter-spells and blood-braid elf really awkward. Especially when you only have zero to one CC spells.
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Current Decks
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Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
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The major problem is that now this card hits two major archetypes in the format. One of the perks of playing Storm is that while it has silver bullet cards like Rule of Law and Eidolon of Rhetoric (any many other), those cards are both very narrow and it negatively effects both players. This is very important. You might ask "why does Storm's hate only have to exist in very narrow instances?" Well, thats easy. No other archetype has a card that says "you can't win the game" besides Dredge, on top of having to deal with anti graveyard hate (all of witch are low effort cards, e.g. cards that fit into any deck very easily.) that severely gimps the deck while simultaneously hitting other decks.
My other problem with this card is that every sideboard besides Storm and Tron will have at least 1 slot dedicated to this card.
I'd rather this format not be all about drawing sideboard cards like it was in the past.
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
How are you guys feeling about the designing of the cards in general? I have no clue how many allstars we have for modern in this set, but is the direction the design team moving towards feeling good or hopeful for MTG and modern?
They seemed to add interesting effects and answers. Nothing is looking like a card that looks trash that the design team was like, "you modern players will love this!"
Here's a weird thought though, and I'm looking way too far ahead, but if that artifact becomes the new ramp hate to play vs eldrazi and tron, valakut becomes much more dangerous.
I also don't see that the meta really needed this particular hate card so I'm a little bit baffled that if the design team was testing for modern how they would think this was a good thing to introduce into the format. Storm is deader than dead already, Tron is neither unbeatable for midrange decks nor is it putting up particularly impressive finishes, and Jund is probably the best deck in modern currently. I don't see why we would want to have a card that makes the (arguably) best deck better while also limiting the metagame's ability to respond to that deck and keep it in check. We will really have to see how things pan out and it's too early to say anything, but I don't like what I suspect this card will do to the overall health of the metagame at all.
I think that its so universal that its just bad design. I don't want sideboard games being dictated by who drew more sideboard cards, like it used to be.
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Agreed. Plus there's nothing wrong with having a couple of bad matchups. That's a pro grinder mentality of "let me be 50/50 or better against the field to minimize risk" One huge appeal to modern is how daring you can be. The decks that have won GPs over the last couple years are a testament to that. RG eldrazi with eldrazi obligator, lantern control, skred red, burn with shrine of burning rage and zero eidolon, f'ing bogles lol. It's ridiculous and awesome. I'd hate for it to turn into "okay, whose three color goodstuff drew slightly better over twelve damn turns."
Storm can also deal with this, like they do many other 2 mana hate cards.
Those 3 colour Goodstuffs have just as much right to win as 'plz dont make me play magic' Bogles.
Spirits
Sure, and I don't think anyone is denying that. I'm of the opinion that those 3 colour goodstuff decks already do win a reasonable amount and my concern is more that we see the format being dominated by any one strategy in the future. I think the emergence of bogles and the recent explosion in popularity of Tron is a symptom of just how powerful midrange strategies have become in modern. We're somewhat seeing a meta right now where it's a perfectly viable strategy to say "my plan for this tournament is to just focus on beating midrange and lose to combo or aggro" and then still do quite well because decks like Storm, Counters Company, Infect, Ad Nauseum and the like are largely not competitively viable so you don't really have to do anything but be hard to interact with without interacting at all yourself.