At FNM last week, I had the privilege of playing my weird Abzan Hatebear Soul-Blade Beatdown Whatever deck against Mono-Blue Tron. And man did I ever love it. Pondering playing around permission, watching him stall for time with Repeal digging for answers or that last Urza land, deciding if I want to play my 4-drop into a possible Remand or a couple of smaller threats, trying to negotiate avenues of attack vs. a resolved Wurmcoil Engine… it was magnificent. (For the record, I went 1-1-1, one turn from a very quick 2-0.)
Which got me to wondering – does anyone else miss having traditional control decks to play against in Modern? (Personal preference here, but I'm less keen on the combo-control nature of Twin even though I built it before it was banned, since it scraps a lot of the great stuff above for "Do you have Path?") I know Wizards keeps towing the "Everyone hates playing against control" line, and I believed it for a while. But that made me think there must be other people who like it as much as I do.
So what do people think? Am I alone in this, or are there other vs.-control junkies out there?
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Yes, control is by far the most interesting magic you will ever play. Unless you are bad in which case it just feels like you can't do anything. I hate playing control though because you get paired with slow players who just sit thinking when you have already won. I could never top 8 with it because of all the draws.
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Yes, I miss playing against a decent control deck. Every time I see a new player at my LGS I ask them "Infect, Burn or Affinity?"
Control matches go longer so your decisions matter a lot more. It takes a certain finesse to navigate through a mirror match, waiting for a chink in the armor to appear. How you managed your resources in the early game versus aggro is quite a challenge.
Yes, control is by far the most interesting magic you will ever play.
Oh please. I've played control for years and I hate this damn circlejerk. Magic is interesting from all angles. Working out the most efficient lines in midrange mirrors is very interesting. Working out combat math in aggro mirrors is very interesting. Working out how to combo off as Storm against a Thalia is interesting.
Yes, playing against control is also interesting, but I'm sick of people pretending that it's the only true Magic and that if you don't like it then you're terrible. Different strokes for different folks.
I can't say I miss it because it has never really been present in any meaningful way, but I am certainly open to it. I love a good interactive deck and it would not bother me to see combo struggle for a while. I've been trying to build tempo control because that is more fun for me to use than pure control, but I am more than welcoming of ANY matchup that isn't just a goldfish or sprint
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
Even when it existed it wasn't great, but yeah I miss playing against it because it's a great match up for my ad nauseam list. Especially when inexperienced control pilots don't understand that you can't risk tapping out against it.
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Come watch me stream over at my twitch channel. I play Loam Pox, Ad Nauseam, and jank in modern on MTGO.
I enjoy playing against good control players. Players who know exactly what they want to do and when they want to do it. Playing against inexperienced control players is a nightmare. Often, they just take way too long. Constantly staring at their hands before finally deciding to say, "Okay, your turn", or whatever.
A good control player can be a lot of fun to play against. I happen to like my Magic challenging, requiring actual, tight decision making and being rewarded for out-smarting someone who would otherwise be a quick thinking, powerfully reactive adversary.
For a lot of people, having a spell countered is just unfun. But to me, few things in Magic feel better than planning ahead and playing around that counterspell.
To me, it is much more fun playing against someone who cares about every move you make, rather than playing against, say, Bogles or Infect, who generally don't care what the hell you're doing so long as you don't have exactly the right kind of removal at exactly the right time.
I think control-centered Magic is strictly better than turn 4 magic. When you've got a lot of aggro and combo decks then it's like - you play to race them or you play to go over the top, but god forbid you run into a combo deck that you didn't expect and end up getting your ass beat simply because someone happened to play a card that you weren't prepared to face. And that happens more than it needs to when the format is fast, because the fastness of the format encourages you to streamline. I see it as a bet that you make against yourself to see how narrow you can go without getting tripped up by a landmine. Getting good draws is relatively more important, and mulligans are more frequent and factor more heavily into the results.
When the format is slower and has less combos then there's less stress on your opening hand and the individual flavor of your deck has more time to come out. It is a slower game and it does force most decks to become more control-like, play less threats and more answers.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but it's what I preferred. You can keep your Affinity, Infect, Twin, etc... To me that's more like a mulligan simulator than a game.
I mostly do because it hasn't been very good in the past 7 years or so, so I have a better chance to win. Not to mention, I run lists that do well against it usually anyway.
Way back when all I ran was Control (like 5 Color Control or UB or UW), I loooved playing against Control. I felt that the mirror or similar was very skill testing and I was up to the test. Although I haven't played it much since then, I feel that it's not as skill testing. I could be wrong, as I haven't done it much.
I feel you guys playing against inexperienced players. I basically got drawn out of 2 tournaments in my life because of a pair of slow players in each. Once was Extended Jund players and once was a Legacy Merfolk and Miracles players. It hasn't happened much because I don't allow it to, but those 2 times really had me on tilt. It's also part of the reason that I've tested Miracles for 4 months, but haven't done it at a Legacy tournament yet.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I do not miss "old school" draw go, as i find that cancerous, but when i play on modo i do miss playing against the jeskai flash style decks, that do try to be proactive as well. There are tons of these locally, but not so much on modo
What I miss about playing against Control: Playing their cards for them. Control is kind of a one-dimensional strategy so once you understand how they want to interact with your deck, it's fairly easy to just play solitaire with both decks.
What I don't miss about playing against Control: (a) the smug attitudes across the table; (b) the excuses when you out play them but they blame it on everything other than being outplayed.
My LGS is like half control so not really. If that weren't the case I'd probably miss it though. The best kind of interaction is figuring out how to dodge it.
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UG Arixmethes Combo UGR Wanderer UGB Tasigur Control URB Jeleva Storm RW Gisela Control
Good control is fine to play against. Unfortunately, the closest thing in modern to control is lantern control, which is the very definition of hell in mtg.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Never got to miss it. My meta is full of blue control and has been for years, so I'm pretty used to playing against it. Can be annoying sometimes, but in general it's fun.
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"I can call an army to my side in the blink of an eye. Best not blink."
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Some of the most interesting/challenging* games involve "traditional" control decks, and yes, I enjoy being at either end of them. For the record, I'm happy playing various deck types, and vs. almost any.
I miss the days when people could play with whatever they wanted to without the player base whining and complaining that having their cards countered is "cancerous" or unfun.
I miss control because of the time period of magic it represents for me. When everybody didn't send wizards mad tweets and found ways to beat decks they didn't like outside of "ban it" "needs to be banned " "ruins my fun".
What I miss about playing against Control: Playing their cards for them. Control is kind of a one-dimensional strategy so once you understand how they want to interact with your deck, it's fairly easy to just play solitaire with both decks.
What I don't miss about playing against Control: (a) the smug attitudes across the table; (b) the excuses when you out play them but they blame it on everything other than being outplayed.
This. I learned how to play Magic against a control deck (and when control dominated the meta). But he was a fantastic guy, always encouraging new strategies to try and teaching the finer points. The culture was dramatically different for me then. It was a lot more friendly to inexperienced players and new deck ideas. Everybody looked out for everybody else and we kept everything kosher. The most annoying player was this dude that kept gluing cutouts from dirty magazines on his cards. We just made sure he didn't play against the younger kids. Friends came first followed by the game and trading.
After moving to a new city, the culture was far more hostile. The control players were part of a clique comprised of some of the nastiest players possible centered around a ring leader. If they started to lose, the player would bend the rules and get the rest of the clique to agree. Winning was virtually impossible. The infection was pretty broad and nearly every MtG group in the area had the same nasty people.
I miss control because I miss the people from those early years.
Which got me to wondering – does anyone else miss having traditional control decks to play against in Modern? (Personal preference here, but I'm less keen on the combo-control nature of Twin even though I built it before it was banned, since it scraps a lot of the great stuff above for "Do you have Path?") I know Wizards keeps towing the "Everyone hates playing against control" line, and I believed it for a while. But that made me think there must be other people who like it as much as I do.
So what do people think? Am I alone in this, or are there other vs.-control junkies out there?
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
Spirits
Control matches go longer so your decisions matter a lot more. It takes a certain finesse to navigate through a mirror match, waiting for a chink in the armor to appear. How you managed your resources in the early game versus aggro is quite a challenge.
Huh? Don't you just dominate control?
Oh please. I've played control for years and I hate this damn circlejerk. Magic is interesting from all angles. Working out the most efficient lines in midrange mirrors is very interesting. Working out combat math in aggro mirrors is very interesting. Working out how to combo off as Storm against a Thalia is interesting.
Yes, playing against control is also interesting, but I'm sick of people pretending that it's the only true Magic and that if you don't like it then you're terrible. Different strokes for different folks.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
A good control player can be a lot of fun to play against. I happen to like my Magic challenging, requiring actual, tight decision making and being rewarded for out-smarting someone who would otherwise be a quick thinking, powerfully reactive adversary.
For a lot of people, having a spell countered is just unfun. But to me, few things in Magic feel better than planning ahead and playing around that counterspell.
To me, it is much more fun playing against someone who cares about every move you make, rather than playing against, say, Bogles or Infect, who generally don't care what the hell you're doing so long as you don't have exactly the right kind of removal at exactly the right time.
I think control-centered Magic is strictly better than turn 4 magic. When you've got a lot of aggro and combo decks then it's like - you play to race them or you play to go over the top, but god forbid you run into a combo deck that you didn't expect and end up getting your ass beat simply because someone happened to play a card that you weren't prepared to face. And that happens more than it needs to when the format is fast, because the fastness of the format encourages you to streamline. I see it as a bet that you make against yourself to see how narrow you can go without getting tripped up by a landmine. Getting good draws is relatively more important, and mulligans are more frequent and factor more heavily into the results.
When the format is slower and has less combos then there's less stress on your opening hand and the individual flavor of your deck has more time to come out. It is a slower game and it does force most decks to become more control-like, play less threats and more answers.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but it's what I preferred. You can keep your Affinity, Infect, Twin, etc... To me that's more like a mulligan simulator than a game.
Way back when all I ran was Control (like 5 Color Control or UB or UW), I loooved playing against Control. I felt that the mirror or similar was very skill testing and I was up to the test. Although I haven't played it much since then, I feel that it's not as skill testing. I could be wrong, as I haven't done it much.
I feel you guys playing against inexperienced players. I basically got drawn out of 2 tournaments in my life because of a pair of slow players in each. Once was Extended Jund players and once was a Legacy Merfolk and Miracles players. It hasn't happened much because I don't allow it to, but those 2 times really had me on tilt. It's also part of the reason that I've tested Miracles for 4 months, but haven't done it at a Legacy tournament yet.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
What I don't miss about playing against Control: (a) the smug attitudes across the table; (b) the excuses when you out play them but they blame it on everything other than being outplayed.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
UGR Wanderer
UGB Tasigur Control
URB Jeleva Storm
RW Gisela Control
I've played against Mircales in Legacy enough to last a lifetime through any format.
I personally liked control match-ups more when we still had Eye of Ugin and the main board Emrakul, The Aeons Torn.
Aww, the good old days....
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
* IMO, IME, and YMMV.
I miss control because of the time period of magic it represents for me. When everybody didn't send wizards mad tweets and found ways to beat decks they didn't like outside of "ban it" "needs to be banned " "ruins my fun".
This. I learned how to play Magic against a control deck (and when control dominated the meta). But he was a fantastic guy, always encouraging new strategies to try and teaching the finer points. The culture was dramatically different for me then. It was a lot more friendly to inexperienced players and new deck ideas. Everybody looked out for everybody else and we kept everything kosher. The most annoying player was this dude that kept gluing cutouts from dirty magazines on his cards. We just made sure he didn't play against the younger kids. Friends came first followed by the game and trading.
After moving to a new city, the culture was far more hostile. The control players were part of a clique comprised of some of the nastiest players possible centered around a ring leader. If they started to lose, the player would bend the rules and get the rest of the clique to agree. Winning was virtually impossible. The infection was pretty broad and nearly every MtG group in the area had the same nasty people.
I miss control because I miss the people from those early years.