I dont think Processors will need this guy though, there are already so many to choose from?
This will replace Wasteland Strangler. Strangler comes down turn 2/3, same as Thought-Knot Seer. That early in the game, Strangler's processing ability may not be usable.
Here's how I've been thinking on this. We have a few ways to create cards in the graveyard, the most common being Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek. (And then you have to have another handful of cards to get them into exile!) Personally, I don't own any KoI, and I really dislike the cost of 2 life for Thoughtseize, so I run 2 Thoughseize and 4 Mire's Toll. Mire's Toll works extremely well with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. The main problem is, it's not truly effective until my swamps match the number of cards in their hand. But once it does, I can take ANY card from their hand - even basic lands! For that reason, it's the best of the 3, once you get past turn 3 or so.
All that said, Thought-Knot Seer bypasses all that hand disruption and does it himself. Since he is on curve at 4/4 for 4cmc, he gives you Thoughtseize for free. Add Eldrazi Temple or Eye of Ugin (or both!) and he is ridiculously powered, as early as turn 2 (2 Eldrazi temples) but more likely turn 3 for 2 mana. (Temple, Urborg, Eye of Ugin). He is definitely undercosted for the deck, but in hindsight, this deck is a month old, and TKS is at least a year old. WOTC couldn't have seen this coming.
I've seen a lot of people complain that BoS can't block, and thus it's no good vs deck X Y and Z. In response, I'm not sure I want a 2/1 flyer blocking. Seems a good way to lose a 2/1 flyer. The block came as you cast it, paying for the trigger. They lose a creature, period. As cheap as he is to cast, he also replaces Wasteland Strangler, and has essentially the same result. Your opponent is not likely to have such a mass of creatures available that Wasteland Strangler's iffy ability to do -3/-3 to your choice of creatures will matter much. Later in the game, perhaps, but not turn 2/3. For this reason, I take Bearer of Silence over Wasteland Strangler.
And now we come to the Blight Herder. Blight Herder is said to be the best Processor to use to ramp into Ulamog. I'm not so sure. There are a lot of resources being thrown at making sure you have 2 cards exiled to process for BH. Relic of Progenitus[/card. Thoughtseize, KoI, Scrabbling Claws, Bojuka Bog, Tormod's Crypt and likely a few others. So me, that's a whole lot of space that can be streamlined. The hand disruption is essential, because we may not be able to play a creature until turn 3. Using turn 1 and 2 to determine and eliminate threats directly is good tech. But we can throw a lot of that out, since TKS and BoS can now combine hand disruption and creature destruction. Blight Herder, as I mentioned, is not stable enough. You have to get not 1, but TWO cards into exile, and you get 3 eldrazi scions, or 3 mana.
For the same cmc 5 cost, Kozilek's Channeler strikes me as a better play, because it becomes Eldrazi Temples 5-8. You do lose 1 power, but I doubt you were playing BH for his P/T. Unlike the scions, you can keep tapping KC turn after turn.
I see the new deck to be as follows:
4 Bearer of Silence replacing Blight Herder and bunch of hand disruption
4 Thought-Knot Seer replacing 4 Wasteland Strangler and several exiling cards
There will be less need for hand disruption like Thoughtseize - I'll drop mine entirely and just go with Mire's Toll, and less need for exiling artifacts, lands, sorceries etc. All you'll need is 3 or 4. Where that open space will go remains to be seen. Maybe more instant creature destruction? Going to be an interesting few weeks, but I think this deck got immensely stronger with TKS and BoS.
Quick rules check on bearer of silence. His ability triggers on cast which is in fact an ability of an eldrazi but isn't activated? Meaning that you CANNOT use an eldrazi temple to pay for his ability?
Looking at how eldrazi temple is worded, I would think that you can still use it to pay for bearer of silence. MTGsal's gamepedia defines an activated ability as "an ability that can be activated by a player by paying a cost. The cost can be almost anything, such as sacrificing a permanent, paying mana, paying life, or tapping the permanent with the ability." From my understanding, as there is no mention of restrictions related to casting and activated abilities, I would think it still qualifies as an activated ability as it is something that is paid for with a cost.
I'm fairly certain that Bearer's ability is a triggered ability which is considered separate from activated abilities and is thus ineligible to be discounted by temple. All activated abilities are written as cost : ability.
Did I misread the card Thought-Knot Seer? Why is everyone so optimistic about it? Sounds like a slower Sin Collector but with some risk. What if the opponent has one card left in hand and it's an instant-speed removal spell? Or just empty handed?
I dont think Processors will need this guy though, there are already so many to choose from?
This will replace Wasteland Strangler. Strangler comes down turn 2/3, same as Thought-Knot Seer. That early in the game, Strangler's processing ability may not be usable.
I've seen a lot of people complain that BoS can't block, and thus it's no good vs deck X Y and Z. In response, I'm not sure I want a 2/1 flyer blocking. Seems a good way to lose a 2/1 flyer. The block came as you cast it, paying for the trigger. They lose a creature, period. As cheap as he is to cast, he also replaces Wasteland Strangler, and has essentially the same result. Your opponent is not likely to have such a mass of creatures available that Wasteland Strangler's iffy ability to do -3/-3 to your choice of creatures will matter much. Later in the game, perhaps, but not turn 2/3. For this reason, I take Bearer of Silence over Wasteland Strangler.
Did I misread the card Thought-Knot Seer? Why is everyone so optimistic about it? Sounds like a slower Sin Collector but with some risk. What if the opponent has one card left in hand and it's an instant-speed removal spell? Or just empty handed?
For starters, it's a 4/4 body, it often costs just 2 colorless mana (with Eye), and it exiles any non-land card rather than only instants and sorceries.
Sowing Salt gets the Devoid treatment: ok we will change 2RR to 3R Dissipate gets the Devoid treatment: haha, it still costs 1UU
C'mon this is the most straightforward thing.
Land destruction has to be 4cmc or greater.
Hard countermagic has to have UU in its casting cost.
What I'm confused about is what's the point of sticking Devoid on it? The instances where a counterspell being colorless actually means something could be counted on one hand.
Maybe two hands because I didn't pay enough attention to how much the Eldrazi have been pushing "Colorless Matters" in this block.
So I've been doing a lot of testing with Oath of Nissa in the best shell for it (GW Hatebears), and it's insane. Definitely think GW Hatebears is going to be extremely good when Oath comes out - like T1 good, especially if a lot of people are going to be playing Eldrazi/Tron. The deck gets to play the best SB cards in the format - Stony Silence, Kor Firewalker, Rest In Peace - has very good MB selection / CA now with Oath + E Wit (I've been back and forth between 1 and 2) + Horizon Canopy. Flickerwisp is really sick in the deck being able to flicker Oath, E Wit, Kitchen Finks, etc. Restoration Angel adds to this as well.
Between Horizon Canopy, E Wits, Oath, Flickerwisp, Kitchen Finks, Voice, Thragtusk, etc. you can easily out grind the Grixis decks, especially with disruption like Scooze/Thalia/Ground Seal (which by the way is highly underrated out of the board!), and post-board you get really silly stuff like Rest In Peace/additional Skites/Pithing Needle/etc.
It's been putting up really insane results for me and all thanks to Oath
Sowing Salt gets the Devoid treatment: ok we will change 2RR to 3R Dissipate gets the Devoid treatment: haha, it still costs 1UU
C'mon this is the most straightforward thing.
Land destruction has to be 4cmc or greater.
Hard countermagic has to have UU in its casting cost.
What I'm confused about is what's the point of sticking Devoid on it? The instances where a counterspell being colorless actually means something could be counted on one hand.
Maybe two hands because I didn't pay enough attention to how much the Eldrazi have been pushing "Colorless Matters" in this block.
Well for one, it's the only counterspell i know of that you can grab with Ancient Stirrings, which is slowly becoming even more amazing than it was before.
also just saw;
Dimensional Infiltrator 1U
Devoid (This card has no color.)
Flash, flying
1C: Exile the top card of target opponent's library. If it's a land card, you may return Dimensional Infiltrator to its owner's hand.
Lantern Control might like this guy, essentially a ghoulcaller's bell that you can use more than once per turn.
How so? 2 mana to cast, 2 mana to use. It's got flash, so they can wait until EoT to cast it and hang onto a counter or some other response otherwise, and then once it's there it's both ghoulcaller's bell and a clock in the form of a 2/1 flyer which could probably fly over bridge fairly frequently. Plus, unlike bell, it can be used multiple times per turn, so it makes the overall "lock" a lot stronger.
I don't play lantern though, but that was my first thought looking at the card.
How so? 2 mana to cast, 2 mana to use. It's got flash, so they can wait until EoT to cast it and hang onto a counter or some other response otherwise, and then once it's there it's both ghoulcaller's bell and a clock in the form of a 2/1 flyer which could probably fly over bridge fairly frequently. Plus, unlike bell, it can be used multiple times per turn, so it makes the overall "lock" a lot stronger.
I don't play lantern though, but that was my first thought looking at the card.
Its actually a one sided Pyxis of Pandemonium or a Codex Shredder that exiles. Withouth their other abilities.
I think you mentioned all the right reason Lantern Control does not want this.
2 Mana to cast. (Higher than the rest of the mill-rocks. It is a fragile deck that must use every bit of mana quickly and wisely to survive the early game.)
2 Mana to use. (Mill-rocks are free. Every bit of mana is essential. If you play this turn 2 you won't use it till turn 3 and if you use it you won't be casting the rest of your spells efficiently))
Flash to hold onto counters (Lantern does not play counters)
A clock in the form of a 2/1 (Its a creature, which is bad as it dies to removal, mill rocks don't die to bolt)
Mindshrieker gets under Bridge easier, flies, gets pumped after attacking and still is not good enough for Lantern Control.
Yeah, I mean... Did you test him online with some patch?ahah
Proxied list with my test group? I can't tell if you're genuinely unsure about how this testing works or if you're trying to say something else.
No mate I was just genuinely interested in case you had some patch to play online with new cards
Oh, okay. Nope, just old fashioned paper testing for this round. Although it's pretty easy to rig up some proxies in the third-party freeware programs, if you use those
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
I didn't notice the OR Power on this card. Hmm on second glance, this seems pretty decent then.
Yeah, I was worried at first that it didn't hit one or the other between Twin and Mite.
Kills Swiftspear in Burn (but nothing else) along with most of Affinity and all of Infect. Sadly, it never hits Etched Champion or Kor Firewalker or it would be a real winner. Does kill Master of Waves though. Deals with Spellskite but Spellskite can also steal the target if you're aiming it at something better.
I didn't notice the OR Power on this card. Hmm on second glance, this seems pretty decent then.
Yeah, I was worried at first that it didn't hit one or the other between Twin and Mite.
Kills Swiftspear in Burn (but nothing else) along with most of Affinity and all of Infect. Sadly, it never hits Etched Champion or Kor Firewalker or it would be a real winner. Does kill Master of Waves though. Deals with Spellskite but Spellskite can also steal the target if you're aiming it at something better.
It's good. It's even better in Legacy than in Modern (and it combos nicely with Sol Lands). However, it should see play in the Eldrazi deck. I hope not just in the board — playing some number of these MD seems to help against several decks and can always just be a bad instant-speed blocker. Playing them MD also lets you lean less heavily on a colored (white or red) splash.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
This will replace Wasteland Strangler. Strangler comes down turn 2/3, same as Thought-Knot Seer. That early in the game, Strangler's processing ability may not be usable.
Here's how I've been thinking on this. We have a few ways to create cards in the graveyard, the most common being Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek. (And then you have to have another handful of cards to get them into exile!) Personally, I don't own any KoI, and I really dislike the cost of 2 life for Thoughtseize, so I run 2 Thoughseize and 4 Mire's Toll. Mire's Toll works extremely well with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. The main problem is, it's not truly effective until my swamps match the number of cards in their hand. But once it does, I can take ANY card from their hand - even basic lands! For that reason, it's the best of the 3, once you get past turn 3 or so.
All that said, Thought-Knot Seer bypasses all that hand disruption and does it himself. Since he is on curve at 4/4 for 4cmc, he gives you Thoughtseize for free. Add Eldrazi Temple or Eye of Ugin (or both!) and he is ridiculously powered, as early as turn 2 (2 Eldrazi temples) but more likely turn 3 for 2 mana. (Temple, Urborg, Eye of Ugin). He is definitely undercosted for the deck, but in hindsight, this deck is a month old, and TKS is at least a year old. WOTC couldn't have seen this coming.
Now lets address another cards revealed, Bearer of Silence.
I've seen a lot of people complain that BoS can't block, and thus it's no good vs deck X Y and Z. In response, I'm not sure I want a 2/1 flyer blocking. Seems a good way to lose a 2/1 flyer. The block came as you cast it, paying for the trigger. They lose a creature, period. As cheap as he is to cast, he also replaces Wasteland Strangler, and has essentially the same result. Your opponent is not likely to have such a mass of creatures available that Wasteland Strangler's iffy ability to do -3/-3 to your choice of creatures will matter much. Later in the game, perhaps, but not turn 2/3. For this reason, I take Bearer of Silence over Wasteland Strangler.
And now we come to the Blight Herder. Blight Herder is said to be the best Processor to use to ramp into Ulamog. I'm not so sure. There are a lot of resources being thrown at making sure you have 2 cards exiled to process for BH. Relic of Progenitus[/card. Thoughtseize, KoI, Scrabbling Claws, Bojuka Bog, Tormod's Crypt and likely a few others. So me, that's a whole lot of space that can be streamlined. The hand disruption is essential, because we may not be able to play a creature until turn 3. Using turn 1 and 2 to determine and eliminate threats directly is good tech. But we can throw a lot of that out, since TKS and BoS can now combine hand disruption and creature destruction. Blight Herder, as I mentioned, is not stable enough. You have to get not 1, but TWO cards into exile, and you get 3 eldrazi scions, or 3 mana.
For the same cmc 5 cost, Kozilek's Channeler strikes me as a better play, because it becomes Eldrazi Temples 5-8. You do lose 1 power, but I doubt you were playing BH for his P/T. Unlike the scions, you can keep tapping KC turn after turn.
I see the new deck to be as follows:
4 Bearer of Silence replacing Blight Herder and bunch of hand disruption
4 Thought-Knot Seer replacing 4 Wasteland Strangler and several exiling cards
There will be less need for hand disruption like Thoughtseize - I'll drop mine entirely and just go with Mire's Toll, and less need for exiling artifacts, lands, sorceries etc. All you'll need is 3 or 4. Where that open space will go remains to be seen. Maybe more instant creature destruction? Going to be an interesting few weeks, but I think this deck got immensely stronger with TKS and BoS.
I'm fairly certain that Bearer's ability is a triggered ability which is considered separate from activated abilities and is thus ineligible to be discounted by temple. All activated abilities are written as cost : ability.
Dissipate gets the Devoid treatment: haha, it still costs 1UU
It's not 2 exact lands, there are 3 combinations that will work:
Temple + Temple
Temple + Eye
Urborg + Eye
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
The issue with Bearer of Silence is its cost. Wasteland Strangler can be cast with a single black source when eye of ugin is out or with 2 lands when one of them is an eldrazi temple. Bearer of Silence at best requires you to tap 3 lands when you have eye of ugin: a black source, a colorless source, and a generic one. By no means is Bearer of Silence a bad card, and I imagine it'll be played in Bx Eldrazi but it can't totally replace Wasteland Strangler.
For starters, it's a 4/4 body, it often costs just 2 colorless mana (with Eye), and it exiles any non-land card rather than only instants and sorceries.
CG
Proxied list with my test group? I can't tell if you're genuinely unsure about how this testing works or if you're trying to say something else.
C'mon this is the most straightforward thing.
Land destruction has to be 4cmc or greater.
Hard countermagic has to have UU in its casting cost.
What I'm confused about is what's the point of sticking Devoid on it? The instances where a counterspell being colorless actually means something could be counted on one hand.
Maybe two hands because I didn't pay enough attention to how much the Eldrazi have been pushing "Colorless Matters" in this block.
Between Horizon Canopy, E Wits, Oath, Flickerwisp, Kitchen Finks, Voice, Thragtusk, etc. you can easily out grind the Grixis decks, especially with disruption like Scooze/Thalia/Ground Seal (which by the way is highly underrated out of the board!), and post-board you get really silly stuff like Rest In Peace/additional Skites/Pithing Needle/etc.
It's been putting up really insane results for me and all thanks to Oath
Well for one, it's the only counterspell i know of that you can grab with Ancient Stirrings, which is slowly becoming even more amazing than it was before.
also just saw;
Dimensional Infiltrator 1U
Devoid (This card has no color.)
Flash, flying
1C: Exile the top card of target opponent's library. If it's a land card, you may return Dimensional Infiltrator to its owner's hand.
Lantern Control might like this guy, essentially a ghoulcaller's bell that you can use more than once per turn.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Most of the time Snapcaster Mage is better even if it doesn't have flying. Some weird Pride of the Clouds/Favorable Winds aggro deck might want it.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I don't play lantern though, but that was my first thought looking at the card.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Its actually a one sided Pyxis of Pandemonium or a Codex Shredder that exiles. Withouth their other abilities.
I think you mentioned all the right reason Lantern Control does not want this.
2 Mana to cast. (Higher than the rest of the mill-rocks. It is a fragile deck that must use every bit of mana quickly and wisely to survive the early game.)
2 Mana to use. (Mill-rocks are free. Every bit of mana is essential. If you play this turn 2 you won't use it till turn 3 and if you use it you won't be casting the rest of your spells efficiently))
Flash to hold onto counters (Lantern does not play counters)
A clock in the form of a 2/1 (Its a creature, which is bad as it dies to removal, mill rocks don't die to bolt)
Mindshrieker gets under Bridge easier, flies, gets pumped after attacking and still is not good enough for Lantern Control.
Even Orcish Spy & Wizened Snitches, the only other pseudo-Lanterns in modern are not good enough.
There are more creatures like that, Screeching Sliver, Dakra Mystic, Cathartic Adept, Lurking Informant and some others. Lantern simply does not want to play creatures because it gives it a huge advantage in a sea of decks packed with removal.
I'm even working on a EDH port and its also creatureless (except for Trinket Mage and the Commander, which I never cast (Oloro))
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
Oh, okay. Nope, just old fashioned paper testing for this round. Although it's pretty easy to rig up some proxies in the third-party freeware programs, if you use those
It looks so fantastic and it helps the eldrazi deck with many of it's worst matchups - infect, burn, affinity, spellskites, scapeshift - etc.
Because of the amount of cards that need a colorless I'm considering running one to fetch with map because you're right.
GIVE ME MORE COLORLESS WAYS TO SCREW WITH TWIN.
Still think path is the best option?
(...but really, probably not soon enough. )
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
I didn't notice the OR Power on this card. Hmm on second glance, this seems pretty decent then.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Yeah, I was worried at first that it didn't hit one or the other between Twin and Mite.
Kills Swiftspear in Burn (but nothing else) along with most of Affinity and all of Infect. Sadly, it never hits Etched Champion or Kor Firewalker or it would be a real winner. Does kill Master of Waves though. Deals with Spellskite but Spellskite can also steal the target if you're aiming it at something better.
It's good. It's even better in Legacy than in Modern (and it combos nicely with Sol Lands). However, it should see play in the Eldrazi deck. I hope not just in the board — playing some number of these MD seems to help against several decks and can always just be a bad instant-speed blocker. Playing them MD also lets you lean less heavily on a colored (white or red) splash.
someone please kill me
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
They did it just to screw with Goyf lovers and people who want to drop this off Temple or Eye.