Skinning Tendrils (totally read sinking tendrils)... man with as much as I hate kitchen finks and voice of resurgence I can definitely see playing this over the other two versions. Not to mention catching random snapcaster mages helps alleviate some of the kolaghan's shenanigans. To me it's not a question of which infest is better, but if one is worth running at all.
Skinning Tendrils (totally read sinking tendrils)... man with as much as I hate kitchen finks and voice of resurgence I can definitely see playing this over the other two versions. Not to mention catching random snapcaster mages helps alleviate some of the kolaghan's shenanigans. To me it's not a question of which infest is better, but if one is worth running at all.
I think there are definitely decks that wanted it - pyroclasm effects in non-red decks that might not get to 4 mana AND it has other relevant text? Yep, all of those things sound good to me. I'll be trying 1/2 out in mono B eldrazi.
Oath of Jace is Compulsive Research/Thirst for Knowledge on ETB, minus the ability to skip the second discard by discarding a specific card type. Nobody plays Research or Thirst without the intention of discarding a land/artifact.
Oh well, so the ETB is basically a glorified cantrip. What about the other ability? It lets you scry X at the beginning of your upkeep, which will be 0 or 1 more often than not. This mode is basically Thassa, God of the Sea when it works. The saddest thing about it is that it can't be used to set up things like Domri Rade or Narset Transcendent, since you'd draw the card during your draw step.
The BG manland animates for 1BG and turns into a 2/2. When it's the same size as Lavaclaw Reaches you know you're off to a bad start. Instead of firebreathing, it has deathtouch. That's it. How underwhelming. Stick to Raging Ravine/Stirring Wildwood/Treetop Village in BGx.
Well actually if you're playing a big Superfriends pile (which is where you'd logically run Oath of Jace) and you're playing things right (IE magical christmas land), you should be scrying for 2 or more.
Of course, this is magical christmas land, where Tibalt doesn't suck and the opponent doesn't just laugh at you for mainphasing a 3 mana card filter.
That said, in a slower format it's a card that has me reconsidering the usefulness of the Planeswalker tutor, and there's a whole bunch of factors in play that suggest to me OGW could fart out a mistake card that makes Superfriends a worthwhile archetype in Modern.
All it takes is one "planeswalkers matter" mistake and poof, new archetype. Maybe. Perhaps. Not really, but who knows?
The GB manland seems a bit conservative - or maybe I'm underestimating deathtouch on a manland a bit too much? What do you guys think?
On one hand, it's not Needle Spires.
On the other, it dies to Needle Spires.
It's slower and weaker than Treetop Village so that's a major dent to its usefulness, so what remains is asking if being slower and weaker is worth gaining the ability to trade with big fatties, and I'm pretty sure the answer to that is NO.
Oh I guess there's also the ability to tap for G or B, but I don't play GBx decks enough to know how important tapping for colors is and if it makes up for the crummy manland function.
The GB manland seems a bit conservative - or maybe I'm underestimating deathtouch on a manland a bit too much? What do you guys think?
On one hand, it's not Needle Spires.
On the other, it dies to Needle Spires.
It's slower and weaker than Treetop Village so that's a major dent to its usefulness, so what remains is asking if being slower and weaker is worth gaining the ability to trade with big fatties, and I'm pretty sure the answer to that is NO.
Oh I guess there's also the ability to tap for G or B, but I don't play GBx decks enough to know how important tapping for colors is and if it makes up for the crummy manland function.
So of the new manlands the only one seeing any significant play is Shambling Vents. G/B manland was probably kept intentionally weak for standard purposes due to Abzan.
Needle Spires ... Although this land is bad, I'm glad it's bad. I just can't imagine aggro/beatdown decks having any more tools than they already have.
So that leaves the UG manland, which I think will find a home if a BUG deck ever becomes a viable thing in modern. I also think the UR manland will be mediocre as well.
The GB manland seems a bit conservative - or maybe I'm underestimating deathtouch on a manland a bit too much? What do you guys think?
On one hand, it's not Needle Spires.
On the other, it dies to Needle Spires.
It's slower and weaker than Treetop Village so that's a major dent to its usefulness, so what remains is asking if being slower and weaker is worth gaining the ability to trade with big fatties, and I'm pretty sure the answer to that is NO.
Oh I guess there's also the ability to tap for G or B, but I don't play GBx decks enough to know how important tapping for colors is and if it makes up for the crummy manland function.
So of the new manlands the only one seeing any significant play is Shambling Vents. G/B manland was probably kept intentionally weak for standard purposes due to Abzan.
Needle Spires ... Although this land is bad, I'm glad it's bad. I just can't imagine aggro/beatdown decks having any more tools than they already have.
So that leaves the UG manland, which I think will find a home if a BUG deck ever becomes a viable thing in modern. I also think the UR manland will be mediocre as well.
Oh I'd be fine if Needle Spires were merely bad and not literally the Mudhole or One With Nothing of manlands.
Hissing Quagmire is the sort of bad I would be fine with. It may compare unfavorably with Treetop Village but at least it isn't trying to do the same thing as Village except in a way that totally doesn't work in real Magic.
WHY WOULD YOU EVER THINK A 2/1 DOUBLESTRIKER IS WORTH TAPPING DOWN UP TO 5 LANDS.
HISSING QUAGMIRE IS SERVICEABLE, GRAY OGRES THAT DO BONUS THINGS TEND TO BE PLAYABLE IN VARIOUS FORMATS.
NEEDLE SPIRE IS LIKE THE PUNCHLINE TO AN ARISTOCRATS JOKE OR SOMETHING.
EXCEPT IT ISN'T EVEN FUNNY.
The GB manland seems a bit conservative - or maybe I'm underestimating deathtouch on a manland a bit too much? What do you guys think?
On one hand, it's not Needle Spires.
On the other, it dies to Needle Spires.
It's slower and weaker than Treetop Village so that's a major dent to its usefulness, so what remains is asking if being slower and weaker is worth gaining the ability to trade with big fatties, and I'm pretty sure the answer to that is NO.
Oh I guess there's also the ability to tap for G or B, but I don't play GBx decks enough to know how important tapping for colors is and if it makes up for the crummy manland function.
So of the new manlands the only one seeing any significant play is Shambling Vents. G/B manland was probably kept intentionally weak for standard purposes due to Abzan.
Needle Spires ... Although this land is bad, I'm glad it's bad. I just can't imagine aggro/beatdown decks having any more tools than they already have.
So that leaves the UG manland, which I think will find a home if a BUG deck ever becomes a viable thing in modern. I also think the UR manland will be mediocre as well.
Oh I'd be fine if Needle Spires were merely bad and not literally the Mudhole or One With Nothing of manlands.
Hissing Quagmire is the sort of bad I would be fine with. It may compare unfavorably with Treetop Village but at least it isn't trying to do the same thing as Village except in a way that totally doesn't work in real Magic.
WHY WOULD YOU EVER THINK A 2/1 DOUBLESTRIKER IS WORTH TAPPING DOWN UP TO 5 LANDS.
HISSING QUAGMIRE IS SERVICEABLE, GRAY OGRES THAT DO BONUS THINGS TEND TO BE PLAYABLE IN VARIOUS FORMATS.
NEEDLE SPIRE IS LIKE THE PUNCHLINE TO AN ARISTOCRATS JOKE OR SOMETHING.
EXCEPT IT ISN'T EVEN FUNNY.
In standard it's all upside - people play taplands that gain you one life, so being able to swing for four in the later game (and potentially for 16 in the later game when paired with Become Immense) is nothing to sneeze at. If it was a 3/1 it would be busted as hell in standard - in modern, our bar is exceptionally high for everything, and there's almost no way a card in RW was going to be playable that came into play tapped without being completely obscene.
If it were literally Ghitu Encampment with all instances of colorless/generic replaced with W, I would quickly jump to its defense even though no one (at least, no one relevant) plays Ghitu Encampment in Modern.
If it were literally Ghitu Encampment with all instances of colorless/generic replaced with W, I would quickly jump to its defense even though no one (at least, no one relevant) plays Ghitu Encampment in Modern.
Would 1RW: 3/1 First Strike Vigilance have been playable?
If it were literally Ghitu Encampment with all instances of colorless/generic replaced with W, I would quickly jump to its defense even though no one (at least, no one relevant) plays Ghitu Encampment in Modern.
Would 1RW: 3/1 First Strike Vigilance have been playable?
More playable in my eyes than Needle Spire, that's for sure.
If it were literally Ghitu Encampment with all instances of colorless/generic replaced with W, I would quickly jump to its defense even though no one (at least, no one relevant) plays Ghitu Encampment in Modern.
Would 1RW: 3/1 First Strike Vigilance have been playable?
More playable in my eyes than Needle Spire, that's for sure.
Just use Needle Spire with cards like Honor of the Pure or the more lolzy Grafted Wargear. Sure it dies end of turn with Wargear, but you're alpha striking for 10! If a weenie/token RW deck ever comes about, Needle Spire gets a lot better. It just doesn't have a home yet (or ever).
Why did they give this land deathtouch instead of regenerate? You're telling me I can chump block a land and kill it? I would have still played this if it had regenerate for, say BG. That would have been okay. But this? Dies to not only bolt, but shock, and you don't have a way to protect it, and it's evasion isn't worth it, as its way to easy to kill by blocking.
Whats even worse is it's a Elemental. I think all the manlands thus far have been, but had this been a Zombie it would have at least been fringe playable.
In other news, Stoneforge Mystic's legacy continues to disappoint. Tribal equipment tends not to work because it doesn't do anything when you run out of creatures. The exception is Cranial Plating - with both Nexuses, it's less likely that you're stuck without a creature.
Of course, going horizontal like that, you might prefer the Anthem buff of Coat of Arms proper rather than an equipment.
And of course, if you're going horizontal, and you're playing Anthems, well clearly you're playing WB tokens and why would you play Coats when your Anthems of choice are more cost efficient?
If you don't have white for Vent or Wildwood or red for Ravine, Quagmire is just fine. At worst it holds off a dude by threatening a deathtouch blocker. I definitely don't want to run mono-Treetops since they don't tap for black.
I hate all of the new manlands, though. 'Cept maybe the hexproof one. That one's good.
..and I guess Vent is okay.
edit: PasstheChips makes a good point about Needle Spires and Honor of the Pure, however. And I do like building HotP decks. Not sure I'd put this in my Boros deck however. Maybe a more midrange-y brew is in my future.
I think you're underrating Hissing Quagmire in general. For one, fixing black mana is great in Liliana-playing decks (which are the majority of Treetop Village-playing decks). For two, quite a bit of Celestial Colonnade's value comes from its threatening to eat up an opposing attacker (such as Bob in Colonnade's case) just by being untapped and threatening to be activated. In exchange for being unable to block fliers, the BG manland threatens to trade with every non-indestructible, non-regenerating, non-evasive ground pounder--notably including Goyf, Tasigur, Primeval Titan, and Wurmcoil Engine.
Part of the reason why Lavaclaw Reaches is one of the worst manlands is because you have to pump it an inordinate amount just to make it trade with Goyf. The BG manland does not suffer from that problem.
The BG manland does suffer from the embarrassing curse of not only dying to Bolt, but dying to Kolaghan's Command and Electrolyze as well. Plain old trading with Bob, Tiago, and Goblin Guide does not help.
But, IMO, as much as Treetop Village's 3/3 body and Trample have been relevant, this gives Treetop Village a serious run for its money.
I don't play BGx so I don't know how bad the mana is exactly, but with 4 Blackcleave Cliffs in Jund I don't think it warrants playing an ETB tapped black source.
UW has a lot more things that it can play off six untapped lands than BG. Things like Clique, Restoration Angel, Cryptic, or Snap into anything. In BG you basically have Kolaghan's Command and a 1-of Tasigur's activation.
Treetop Village isn't very common in BGx nowadays anyway. People usually play 2-3 of the RG/GW manlands before adding Village.
The biggest problem with the BG manland is that it's way too defensive. Its power isn't high enough for it to be an effective clock. Deathtouch discourages blocking unless the blocker is small enough that the trade isn't lopsided, but if you attack a 2/2 deathtouch into a 4/5, your opponent is just going to say "no blocks" and swing back with his 4/5 next turn anyway.
I don't think Hissing Quagmire has a place in any BGx deck. Like izzetmage said they are way too defensive and slow to do a serious work. I Raging Ravine, Treetop Village and Stirring Wildwood are all better and this can't replace it. It has deathtouch which is nice but with 2/2 body it represents very slow clock. It's more expensive and slower than Treetop Village and can't end game on its own like R. Ravine can. We'll have to wait more time to get another BGx playable land.
Pretty sure it gets played in Abzan over Treetop Village. Abzan has the late game vs most decks so this being a bit more defensive isn't that bad compared to the extra mana fixing (which Abzan really does need).
Not so sure about Jund, I don't think it makes the cut there since Jund is a more aggressive and has better mana.
...and UR gets a 4/4 Bolt-Test passing land, so for sure it will see play. Things like this make Izzet a thing in Modern and Boros not. The thing that surprises me though is that they made an ability for 0, which you can use infinitely. I thought that such things fell under the old design.
It's not a 4/4 if you can block/kill it with a bear. Don't get me wrong it's great, and I think will see play, buts it's not THAT strong. 4 mana to activate is still a lot.
Because Drown in Sorrow is no longer standard-legal is my guess.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
I think there are definitely decks that wanted it - pyroclasm effects in non-red decks that might not get to 4 mana AND it has other relevant text? Yep, all of those things sound good to me. I'll be trying 1/2 out in mono B eldrazi.
Oh well, so the ETB is basically a glorified cantrip. What about the other ability? It lets you scry X at the beginning of your upkeep, which will be 0 or 1 more often than not. This mode is basically Thassa, God of the Sea when it works. The saddest thing about it is that it can't be used to set up things like Domri Rade or Narset Transcendent, since you'd draw the card during your draw step.
General Tazri tutors for another Ally on ETB. His activated ability resembles Ezuri, Renegade Leader or Mirror Entity, except that it costs WUBRG, which Cavern of Souls and Ally Encampment are useless at paying for. I don't think he's playable at all - in a swarm aggro deck like Allies, 4 is about as high as you can go (see: Collected Company, or Master of Waves in Merfolk).
The BG manland animates for 1BG and turns into a 2/2. When it's the same size as Lavaclaw Reaches you know you're off to a bad start. Instead of firebreathing, it has deathtouch. That's it. How underwhelming. Stick to Raging Ravine/Stirring Wildwood/Treetop Village in BGx.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Of course, this is magical christmas land, where Tibalt doesn't suck and the opponent doesn't just laugh at you for mainphasing a 3 mana card filter.
That said, in a slower format it's a card that has me reconsidering the usefulness of the Planeswalker tutor, and there's a whole bunch of factors in play that suggest to me OGW could fart out a mistake card that makes Superfriends a worthwhile archetype in Modern.
All it takes is one "planeswalkers matter" mistake and poof, new archetype. Maybe. Perhaps. Not really, but who knows?
On one hand, it's not Needle Spires.
On the other, it dies to Needle Spires.
It's slower and weaker than Treetop Village so that's a major dent to its usefulness, so what remains is asking if being slower and weaker is worth gaining the ability to trade with big fatties, and I'm pretty sure the answer to that is NO.
Oh I guess there's also the ability to tap for G or B, but I don't play GBx decks enough to know how important tapping for colors is and if it makes up for the crummy manland function.
So of the new manlands the only one seeing any significant play is Shambling Vents. G/B manland was probably kept intentionally weak for standard purposes due to Abzan.
Needle Spires ... Although this land is bad, I'm glad it's bad. I just can't imagine aggro/beatdown decks having any more tools than they already have.
So that leaves the UG manland, which I think will find a home if a BUG deck ever becomes a viable thing in modern. I also think the UR manland will be mediocre as well.
Oh I'd be fine if Needle Spires were merely bad and not literally the Mudhole or One With Nothing of manlands.
Hissing Quagmire is the sort of bad I would be fine with. It may compare unfavorably with Treetop Village but at least it isn't trying to do the same thing as Village except in a way that totally doesn't work in real Magic.
WHY WOULD YOU EVER THINK A 2/1 DOUBLESTRIKER IS WORTH TAPPING DOWN UP TO 5 LANDS.
HISSING QUAGMIRE IS SERVICEABLE, GRAY OGRES THAT DO BONUS THINGS TEND TO BE PLAYABLE IN VARIOUS FORMATS.
NEEDLE SPIRE IS LIKE THE PUNCHLINE TO AN ARISTOCRATS JOKE OR SOMETHING.
EXCEPT IT ISN'T EVEN FUNNY.
In standard it's all upside - people play taplands that gain you one life, so being able to swing for four in the later game (and potentially for 16 in the later game when paired with Become Immense) is nothing to sneeze at. If it was a 3/1 it would be busted as hell in standard - in modern, our bar is exceptionally high for everything, and there's almost no way a card in RW was going to be playable that came into play tapped without being completely obscene.
Would 1RW: 3/1 First Strike Vigilance have been playable?
More playable in my eyes than Needle Spire, that's for sure.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Whats even worse is it's a Elemental. I think all the manlands thus far have been, but had this been a Zombie it would have at least been fringe playable.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
I still think needle spires might be worth it with 1-2 exalted triggers.
Modern: Kiki ChordWBRG
TokensWB
EDH: Kuon, Ogre AscendantBBB
#FreeContractfromBelow
In other news, Stoneforge Mystic's legacy continues to disappoint. Tribal equipment tends not to work because it doesn't do anything when you run out of creatures. The exception is Cranial Plating - with both Nexuses, it's less likely that you're stuck without a creature.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Of course, going horizontal like that, you might prefer the Anthem buff of Coat of Arms proper rather than an equipment.
And of course, if you're going horizontal, and you're playing Anthems, well clearly you're playing WB tokens and why would you play Coats when your Anthems of choice are more cost efficient?
I hate all of the new manlands, though. 'Cept maybe the hexproof one. That one's good.
..and I guess Vent is okay.
edit: PasstheChips makes a good point about Needle Spires and Honor of the Pure, however. And I do like building HotP decks. Not sure I'd put this in my Boros deck however. Maybe a more midrange-y brew is in my future.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Part of the reason why Lavaclaw Reaches is one of the worst manlands is because you have to pump it an inordinate amount just to make it trade with Goyf. The BG manland does not suffer from that problem.
The BG manland does suffer from the embarrassing curse of not only dying to Bolt, but dying to Kolaghan's Command and Electrolyze as well. Plain old trading with Bob, Tiago, and Goblin Guide does not help.
But, IMO, as much as Treetop Village's 3/3 body and Trample have been relevant, this gives Treetop Village a serious run for its money.
UW has a lot more things that it can play off six untapped lands than BG. Things like Clique, Restoration Angel, Cryptic, or Snap into anything. In BG you basically have Kolaghan's Command and a 1-of Tasigur's activation.
Treetop Village isn't very common in BGx nowadays anyway. People usually play 2-3 of the RG/GW manlands before adding Village.
The biggest problem with the BG manland is that it's way too defensive. Its power isn't high enough for it to be an effective clock. Deathtouch discourages blocking unless the blocker is small enough that the trade isn't lopsided, but if you attack a 2/2 deathtouch into a 4/5, your opponent is just going to say "no blocks" and swing back with his 4/5 next turn anyway.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Pretty sure it gets played in Abzan over Treetop Village. Abzan has the late game vs most decks so this being a bit more defensive isn't that bad compared to the extra mana fixing (which Abzan really does need).
Not so sure about Jund, I don't think it makes the cut there since Jund is a more aggressive and has better mana.