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Quote from Onime »I think it could see play in Blue Jund, card advantage is what that deck suffers from.
Quote from Equinox2793 »THE BIG THING about Jori En is that she cantrips if you cast anything before her on cast. Also there are a good amount of 0-1 drop artifacts that no one is mentioning.
Quote from MarcWizard »Jori En would go very nicely into sorcery speed grixis shells. What I hate most about her is her 3 toughness. This really is all Lightning Bolt's fault. On the upside, you can be sure that if you let a Grixis untap with Jori on the board, things are going to get real bad. Curving from T2 Jace into T3 Jori sounds pretty sweet, so if they're both lightning rods, maybe her 3 toughness isn't so bad. How many turns and cards does your opponent have to spend interacting with your stuff? And we can recur Jori and company with the usual Rise // Fall and Kolaghan's Command.
Quote from JaceTheWalletShredder Ehrmagersh, a new deck is doing well. Breakz out de banhammerz!
Quote from Valanarch »Quote from MarcWizard »Jori En would go very nicely into sorcery speed grixis shells. What I hate most about her is her 3 toughness. This really is all Lightning Bolt's fault. On the upside, you can be sure that if you let a Grixis untap with Jori on the board, things are going to get real bad. Curving from T2 Jace into T3 Jori sounds pretty sweet, so if they're both lightning rods, maybe her 3 toughness isn't so bad. How many turns and cards does your opponent have to spend interacting with your stuff? And we can recur Jori and company with the usual Rise // Fall and Kolaghan's Command. I personally think that Jori probably is worse than Compulsive Research in Grixis Midrange since she needs to stay alive for around 3 turns for her to be equal to Research in card advantage and she can't be flashed back by Snapcaster Mage and Jace and doesn't fuel delve.
Quote from MarcWizard »Quote from Valanarch »Quote from MarcWizard »Jori En would go very nicely into sorcery speed grixis shells. What I hate most about her is her 3 toughness. This really is all Lightning Bolt's fault. On the upside, you can be sure that if you let a Grixis untap with Jori on the board, things are going to get real bad. Curving from T2 Jace into T3 Jori sounds pretty sweet, so if they're both lightning rods, maybe her 3 toughness isn't so bad. How many turns and cards does your opponent have to spend interacting with your stuff? And we can recur Jori and company with the usual Rise // Fall and Kolaghan's Command. I personally think that Jori probably is worse than Compulsive Research in Grixis Midrange since she needs to stay alive for around 3 turns for her to be equal to Research in card advantage and she can't be flashed back by Snapcaster Mage and Jace and doesn't fuel delve. Compulsive Research is a terrible card to compare it to and I think your maths is off. 1. Jori is a body. Research is a Sorcery. Before anything else, Jori is a 2/3 body. Research gains you 1 card at best and cantrips at worst. Its a really really bad card. So I'll change the card for you: Painful Truths. Now THAT'S gaining 2 cards. 2. You said Jori needs to stick around 3 turns. No. Compulsive Research assuming you discarded a land, gained you 1 card, Jori got you a 2/3 body on the board. If you're interested to Delve, then let's put all these aside and play Thought Scour, a far superior card for that purpose. If I draw even one card off of Jori, she has replaced herself. 3. Paying 3 on your turn to draw a card and paying 3 to put a 2/3 must-answer on the board are 2 very different things. What you're doing is like comparing Jace, Vryn's Prodigy to Tormenting Voice. At worst, Jori will soak up a bolt and we'll be behind 2 mana, but on card parity. At best, we'll untap, and the value engine begins. 4. You say Research can be snapcasted. It's a terrible card to snapcast (or even play at all), but you're right. Well, Jori En can be Kommanded. Which is better play?
Quote from Valanarch »Quote from MarcWizard »Quote from Valanarch »Quote from MarcWizard »Jori En would go very nicely into sorcery speed grixis shells. What I hate most about her is her 3 toughness. This really is all Lightning Bolt's fault. On the upside, you can be sure that if you let a Grixis untap with Jori on the board, things are going to get real bad. Curving from T2 Jace into T3 Jori sounds pretty sweet, so if they're both lightning rods, maybe her 3 toughness isn't so bad. How many turns and cards does your opponent have to spend interacting with your stuff? And we can recur Jori and company with the usual Rise // Fall and Kolaghan's Command. I personally think that Jori probably is worse than Compulsive Research in Grixis Midrange since she needs to stay alive for around 3 turns for her to be equal to Research in card advantage and she can't be flashed back by Snapcaster Mage and Jace and doesn't fuel delve. Compulsive Research is a terrible card to compare it to and I think your maths is off. 1. Jori is a body. Research is a Sorcery. Before anything else, Jori is a 2/3 body. Research gains you 1 card at best and cantrips at worst. Its a really really bad card. So I'll change the card for you: Painful Truths. Now THAT'S gaining 2 cards. 2. You said Jori needs to stick around 3 turns. No. Compulsive Research assuming you discarded a land, gained you 1 card, Jori got you a 2/3 body on the board. If you're interested to Delve, then let's put all these aside and play Thought Scour, a far superior card for that purpose. If I draw even one card off of Jori, she has replaced herself. 3. Paying 3 on your turn to draw a card and paying 3 to put a 2/3 must-answer on the board are 2 very different things. What you're doing is like comparing Jace, Vryn's Prodigy to Tormenting Voice. At worst, Jori will soak up a bolt and we'll be behind 2 mana, but on card parity. At best, we'll untap, and the value engine begins. 4. You say Research can be snapcasted. It's a terrible card to snapcast (or even play at all), but you're right. Well, Jori En can be Kommanded. Which is better play? Compulsive Research isn't terrible and it has seen Modern play before. Also, a 2/3 body is a disadvantage not an advantage as it just dies to everything. And Compulsive Research gains you about 2 cards if you are delving away that land later and replacing it with a nonland card in your hand. Most of your argument seems to cetner around the premise that Compulsive Research is terrible, but it really isn't.
Quote from MarcWizard »Quote from Valanarch »Quote from MarcWizard »Quote from Valanarch »Quote from MarcWizard »Jori En would go very nicely into sorcery speed grixis shells. What I hate most about her is her 3 toughness. This really is all Lightning Bolt's fault. On the upside, you can be sure that if you let a Grixis untap with Jori on the board, things are going to get real bad. Curving from T2 Jace into T3 Jori sounds pretty sweet, so if they're both lightning rods, maybe her 3 toughness isn't so bad. How many turns and cards does your opponent have to spend interacting with your stuff? And we can recur Jori and company with the usual Rise // Fall and Kolaghan's Command. I personally think that Jori probably is worse than Compulsive Research in Grixis Midrange since she needs to stay alive for around 3 turns for her to be equal to Research in card advantage and she can't be flashed back by Snapcaster Mage and Jace and doesn't fuel delve. Compulsive Research is a terrible card to compare it to and I think your maths is off. 1. Jori is a body. Research is a Sorcery. Before anything else, Jori is a 2/3 body. Research gains you 1 card at best and cantrips at worst. Its a really really bad card. So I'll change the card for you: Painful Truths. Now THAT'S gaining 2 cards. 2. You said Jori needs to stick around 3 turns. No. Compulsive Research assuming you discarded a land, gained you 1 card, Jori got you a 2/3 body on the board. If you're interested to Delve, then let's put all these aside and play Thought Scour, a far superior card for that purpose. If I draw even one card off of Jori, she has replaced herself. 3. Paying 3 on your turn to draw a card and paying 3 to put a 2/3 must-answer on the board are 2 very different things. What you're doing is like comparing Jace, Vryn's Prodigy to Tormenting Voice. At worst, Jori will soak up a bolt and we'll be behind 2 mana, but on card parity. At best, we'll untap, and the value engine begins. 4. You say Research can be snapcasted. It's a terrible card to snapcast (or even play at all), but you're right. Well, Jori En can be Kommanded. Which is better play? Compulsive Research isn't terrible and it has seen Modern play before. Also, a 2/3 body is a disadvantage not an advantage as it just dies to everything. And Compulsive Research gains you about 2 cards if you are delving away that land later and replacing it with a nonland card in your hand. Most of your argument seems to cetner around the premise that Compulsive Research is terrible, but it really isn't. Compulsive research is pretty terrible. Maybe it was playable before, but I'm not playing Modern in the past, I'm playing it now, with Serum Visions. Compulsive research is not capable of gaining you 2 cards, it will only ever gain you 1 card assuming you discard a land. You then get 1 delve mana, and that's not the same as a card. I don't think you're counting card advantage correctly. A 2/3 body is not a "disadvantage", it merely, as you have said, succumbs to most removal, and we all know we're really talking about Lightning Bolt, which is played by 43% of all decks on mtgtop8, a significant vulnerability. However, the same can be said of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. That didn't stop it from becoming a staple. How about Dark Confidant? Is there anything that can kill Jori that can't kill a Dark Confidant? Well, maybe Doom Blade. But half an Electrolyze would kill him. Do you see what I'm getting at now? In Modern, the "bolt-test" is indeed important, but its not the catch-all. Creatures are "allowed" to be boltable if they produce a huge advantage after you untap. Jace provides looting, and later, recursion. Bob provides direct card draw in exchange for life. Jori provides card draw for playing the 2nd spell each turn, which is something Grixis does most of the time anyway.
Quote from Pyrocumulus »I kind of want to disagree that she doesn't fuel delve. She does, just not as directly, by encouraging you to play more spells per turn. She doesn't fuel delve as effectively/immediately, but she does. I'd also argue that forcing your opponent to use removal on her rather than Jace/Delve Guy/V-Clique/Etc. is already at least one of the cards of advantage you get from Research. It's fairly trivial to cast a cantrip or other cheap spell alongside her the turn she's cast, so in most situations she'll be a two for one unless she's removed at instant speed, and you don't have an instant-speed spell to cast in response. That's quite a bit quicker than taking three turns to reach Compulsive Research's 2-3 (Depending on how much you need a land, how well your hand is able to use your graveyard, and how heavily your opponent is interacting with your graveyard, and how generously you want to define "Card Advantage"). I don't think Research is the best comparison, though. I think she's best compared to a less painful, but slightly more expensive Bob. She requires certain deck restrictions to work right (Plenty of spells that cast alongside others in a turn), she quickly gains insurmountable CA if not answered, and she provides a small but relevant body. I don't play Grixis, but from what I understand it would love to run Bob if Bob didn't suck up so much life when you flip a Tasigur.
Quote from Valanarch »Quote from MarcWizard »Quote from Valanarch »Quote from MarcWizard »Quote from Valanarch » I personally think that Jori probably is worse than Compulsive Research in Grixis Midrange since she needs to stay alive for around 3 turns for her to be equal to Research in card advantage and she can't be flashed back by Snapcaster Mage and Jace and doesn't fuel delve. Compulsive Research is a terrible card to compare it to and I think your maths is off. 1. Jori is a body. Research is a Sorcery. Before anything else, Jori is a 2/3 body. Research gains you 1 card at best and cantrips at worst. Its a really really bad card. So I'll change the card for you: Painful Truths. Now THAT'S gaining 2 cards. 2. You said Jori needs to stick around 3 turns. No. Compulsive Research assuming you discarded a land, gained you 1 card, Jori got you a 2/3 body on the board. If you're interested to Delve, then let's put all these aside and play Thought Scour, a far superior card for that purpose. If I draw even one card off of Jori, she has replaced herself. 3. Paying 3 on your turn to draw a card and paying 3 to put a 2/3 must-answer on the board are 2 very different things. What you're doing is like comparing Jace, Vryn's Prodigy to Tormenting Voice. At worst, Jori will soak up a bolt and we'll be behind 2 mana, but on card parity. At best, we'll untap, and the value engine begins. 4. You say Research can be snapcasted. It's a terrible card to snapcast (or even play at all), but you're right. Well, Jori En can be Kommanded. Which is better play? Compulsive Research isn't terrible and it has seen Modern play before. Also, a 2/3 body is a disadvantage not an advantage as it just dies to everything. And Compulsive Research gains you about 2 cards if you are delving away that land later and replacing it with a nonland card in your hand. Most of your argument seems to cetner around the premise that Compulsive Research is terrible, but it really isn't. Compulsive research is pretty terrible. Maybe it was playable before, but I'm not playing Modern in the past, I'm playing it now, with Serum Visions. Compulsive research is not capable of gaining you 2 cards, it will only ever gain you 1 card assuming you discard a land. You then get 1 delve mana, and that's not the same as a card. I don't think you're counting card advantage correctly. A 2/3 body is not a "disadvantage", it merely, as you have said, succumbs to most removal, and we all know we're really talking about Lightning Bolt, which is played by 43% of all decks on mtgtop8, a significant vulnerability. However, the same can be said of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. That didn't stop it from becoming a staple. How about Dark Confidant? Is there anything that can kill Jori that can't kill a Dark Confidant? Well, maybe Doom Blade. But half an Electrolyze would kill him. Do you see what I'm getting at now? In Modern, the "bolt-test" is indeed important, but its not the catch-all. Creatures are "allowed" to be boltable if they produce a huge advantage after you untap. Jace provides looting, and later, recursion. Bob provides direct card draw in exchange for life. Jori provides card draw for playing the 2nd spell each turn, which is something Grixis does most of the time anyway. Jace and Bob are both two mana creatures. If I remember correctly, the bolt test has always been "If it doesn't have more than 3 toughness and costs more than 1-2 mana, it needs to do something very strong when it is cast, enters the battlefield, leaves the battlefield, or dies." Also, when I said that Compulsive Research saw play in Modern I meant less than a year ago, not back in the days of Ponder and Preordain.
Quote from MarcWizard »Quote from Valanarch »Quote from MarcWizard »Quote from Valanarch » I personally think that Jori probably is worse than Compulsive Research in Grixis Midrange since she needs to stay alive for around 3 turns for her to be equal to Research in card advantage and she can't be flashed back by Snapcaster Mage and Jace and doesn't fuel delve. Compulsive Research is a terrible card to compare it to and I think your maths is off. 1. Jori is a body. Research is a Sorcery. Before anything else, Jori is a 2/3 body. Research gains you 1 card at best and cantrips at worst. Its a really really bad card. So I'll change the card for you: Painful Truths. Now THAT'S gaining 2 cards. 2. You said Jori needs to stick around 3 turns. No. Compulsive Research assuming you discarded a land, gained you 1 card, Jori got you a 2/3 body on the board. If you're interested to Delve, then let's put all these aside and play Thought Scour, a far superior card for that purpose. If I draw even one card off of Jori, she has replaced herself. 3. Paying 3 on your turn to draw a card and paying 3 to put a 2/3 must-answer on the board are 2 very different things. What you're doing is like comparing Jace, Vryn's Prodigy to Tormenting Voice. At worst, Jori will soak up a bolt and we'll be behind 2 mana, but on card parity. At best, we'll untap, and the value engine begins. 4. You say Research can be snapcasted. It's a terrible card to snapcast (or even play at all), but you're right. Well, Jori En can be Kommanded. Which is better play? Compulsive Research isn't terrible and it has seen Modern play before. Also, a 2/3 body is a disadvantage not an advantage as it just dies to everything. And Compulsive Research gains you about 2 cards if you are delving away that land later and replacing it with a nonland card in your hand. Most of your argument seems to cetner around the premise that Compulsive Research is terrible, but it really isn't. Compulsive research is pretty terrible. Maybe it was playable before, but I'm not playing Modern in the past, I'm playing it now, with Serum Visions. Compulsive research is not capable of gaining you 2 cards, it will only ever gain you 1 card assuming you discard a land. You then get 1 delve mana, and that's not the same as a card. I don't think you're counting card advantage correctly. A 2/3 body is not a "disadvantage", it merely, as you have said, succumbs to most removal, and we all know we're really talking about Lightning Bolt, which is played by 43% of all decks on mtgtop8, a significant vulnerability. However, the same can be said of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. That didn't stop it from becoming a staple. How about Dark Confidant? Is there anything that can kill Jori that can't kill a Dark Confidant? Well, maybe Doom Blade. But half an Electrolyze would kill him. Do you see what I'm getting at now? In Modern, the "bolt-test" is indeed important, but its not the catch-all. Creatures are "allowed" to be boltable if they produce a huge advantage after you untap. Jace provides looting, and later, recursion. Bob provides direct card draw in exchange for life. Jori provides card draw for playing the 2nd spell each turn, which is something Grixis does most of the time anyway.
Quote from Valanarch »Quote from MarcWizard »Quote from Valanarch » I personally think that Jori probably is worse than Compulsive Research in Grixis Midrange since she needs to stay alive for around 3 turns for her to be equal to Research in card advantage and she can't be flashed back by Snapcaster Mage and Jace and doesn't fuel delve. Compulsive Research is a terrible card to compare it to and I think your maths is off. 1. Jori is a body. Research is a Sorcery. Before anything else, Jori is a 2/3 body. Research gains you 1 card at best and cantrips at worst. Its a really really bad card. So I'll change the card for you: Painful Truths. Now THAT'S gaining 2 cards. 2. You said Jori needs to stick around 3 turns. No. Compulsive Research assuming you discarded a land, gained you 1 card, Jori got you a 2/3 body on the board. If you're interested to Delve, then let's put all these aside and play Thought Scour, a far superior card for that purpose. If I draw even one card off of Jori, she has replaced herself. 3. Paying 3 on your turn to draw a card and paying 3 to put a 2/3 must-answer on the board are 2 very different things. What you're doing is like comparing Jace, Vryn's Prodigy to Tormenting Voice. At worst, Jori will soak up a bolt and we'll be behind 2 mana, but on card parity. At best, we'll untap, and the value engine begins. 4. You say Research can be snapcasted. It's a terrible card to snapcast (or even play at all), but you're right. Well, Jori En can be Kommanded. Which is better play? Compulsive Research isn't terrible and it has seen Modern play before. Also, a 2/3 body is a disadvantage not an advantage as it just dies to everything. And Compulsive Research gains you about 2 cards if you are delving away that land later and replacing it with a nonland card in your hand. Most of your argument seems to cetner around the premise that Compulsive Research is terrible, but it really isn't.
Quote from MarcWizard »Quote from Valanarch » I personally think that Jori probably is worse than Compulsive Research in Grixis Midrange since she needs to stay alive for around 3 turns for her to be equal to Research in card advantage and she can't be flashed back by Snapcaster Mage and Jace and doesn't fuel delve. Compulsive Research is a terrible card to compare it to and I think your maths is off. 1. Jori is a body. Research is a Sorcery. Before anything else, Jori is a 2/3 body. Research gains you 1 card at best and cantrips at worst. Its a really really bad card. So I'll change the card for you: Painful Truths. Now THAT'S gaining 2 cards. 2. You said Jori needs to stick around 3 turns. No. Compulsive Research assuming you discarded a land, gained you 1 card, Jori got you a 2/3 body on the board. If you're interested to Delve, then let's put all these aside and play Thought Scour, a far superior card for that purpose. If I draw even one card off of Jori, she has replaced herself. 3. Paying 3 on your turn to draw a card and paying 3 to put a 2/3 must-answer on the board are 2 very different things. What you're doing is like comparing Jace, Vryn's Prodigy to Tormenting Voice. At worst, Jori will soak up a bolt and we'll be behind 2 mana, but on card parity. At best, we'll untap, and the value engine begins. 4. You say Research can be snapcasted. It's a terrible card to snapcast (or even play at all), but you're right. Well, Jori En can be Kommanded. Which is better play?
Quote from Valanarch » I personally think that Jori probably is worse than Compulsive Research in Grixis Midrange since she needs to stay alive for around 3 turns for her to be equal to Research in card advantage and she can't be flashed back by Snapcaster Mage and Jace and doesn't fuel delve.
Quote from izzetmage »Compulsive Research was a 2-of in the Scapeshift deck that T8ed GP Oklahoma City. Jori feeds herself by drawing more cards, that's it. I don't know if there's any other positive thing I can say about her. There's a long list of creatures that trigger off you casting spells, like YP, Monastery Mentor, Guttersnipe, Talrand, Sky Summoner, anything else with Prowess. Other than YP and Monastery Swiftspear in Burn/Suicide Zoo, the rest suck. Mana cost is crucial for two reasons: 1) less tempo loss if it gets Bolted, and 2) the cheaper the creature is, the earlier you can get it down and the faster you can start making tokens/drawing cards/getting Prowess boosts/whatever. Ever wonder why Glimpse of Nature is banned while Soul of the Harvest/Primordial Sage are not? That's right, mana cost. And while the difference between 2 and 3 mana is less than the difference between 1 and 6, it's still significant enough for Guttersnipe to not see any play and Monastery Mentor to appear about as infrequently as Compulsive Research. Or for Bob to see play in BGx instead of Phyrexian Arena.
Quote from Valanarch »Quote from Pyrocumulus »I kind of want to disagree that she doesn't fuel delve. She does, just not as directly, by encouraging you to play more spells per turn. She doesn't fuel delve as effectively/immediately, but she does. I'd also argue that forcing your opponent to use removal on her rather than Jace/Delve Guy/V-Clique/Etc. is already at least one of the cards of advantage you get from Research. It's fairly trivial to cast a cantrip or other cheap spell alongside her the turn she's cast, so in most situations she'll be a two for one unless she's removed at instant speed, and you don't have an instant-speed spell to cast in response. That's quite a bit quicker than taking three turns to reach Compulsive Research's 2-3 (Depending on how much you need a land, how well your hand is able to use your graveyard, and how heavily your opponent is interacting with your graveyard, and how generously you want to define "Card Advantage"). I don't think Research is the best comparison, though. I think she's best compared to a less painful, but slightly more expensive Bob. She requires certain deck restrictions to work right (Plenty of spells that cast alongside others in a turn), she quickly gains insurmountable CA if not answered, and she provides a small but relevant body. I don't play Grixis, but from what I understand it would love to run Bob if Bob didn't suck up so much life when you flip a Tasigur. If you are going to cast a spell other than Gitaxian Probe in the turn that you play Jori while also playing black, couldn't you just play Pack Rat (which also fuels delve). I could be wrong, but I just don't think that Jori is good enough.
Quote from Aegraen »Grixis has a fairly low CMC, so I'm not sure why you'd want to run Jori over Dark Confidant...I feel like Jori makes you want to play the game in a style that is fairly restricting for not much benefit.
Quote from Pyrocumulus »Quote from Valanarch »Quote from Pyrocumulus »I kind of want to disagree that she doesn't fuel delve. She does, just not as directly, by encouraging you to play more spells per turn. She doesn't fuel delve as effectively/immediately, but she does. I'd also argue that forcing your opponent to use removal on her rather than Jace/Delve Guy/V-Clique/Etc. is already at least one of the cards of advantage you get from Research. It's fairly trivial to cast a cantrip or other cheap spell alongside her the turn she's cast, so in most situations she'll be a two for one unless she's removed at instant speed, and you don't have an instant-speed spell to cast in response. That's quite a bit quicker than taking three turns to reach Compulsive Research's 2-3 (Depending on how much you need a land, how well your hand is able to use your graveyard, and how heavily your opponent is interacting with your graveyard, and how generously you want to define "Card Advantage"). I don't think Research is the best comparison, though. I think she's best compared to a less painful, but slightly more expensive Bob. She requires certain deck restrictions to work right (Plenty of spells that cast alongside others in a turn), she quickly gains insurmountable CA if not answered, and she provides a small but relevant body. I don't play Grixis, but from what I understand it would love to run Bob if Bob didn't suck up so much life when you flip a Tasigur. If you are going to cast a spell other than Gitaxian Probe in the turn that you play Jori while also playing black, couldn't you just play Pack Rat (which also fuels delve). I could be wrong, but I just don't think that Jori is good enough. Pack Rat needs five mana to do anything the turn it's cast, whereas Jori can require four (With a one-mana spell) or three (With Gitaxian Probe). Jori also produces CA, which Pack Rat only kind of sort of does if we're saying that putting cards in your graveyard is CA in a deck that runs Snapcaster/Jace. I'm not convinced she's good enough, either, but I think she's interesting enough to argue in favor of on forums for the sake of stimulating my thought process on her. Quote from Aegraen »Grixis has a fairly low CMC, so I'm not sure why you'd want to run Jori over Dark Confidant...I feel like Jori makes you want to play the game in a style that is fairly restricting for not much benefit. Grixis tends to run Tasigur and Gurmag Angler, both of which lose you a huge amount of life if flipped. I don't think she's any more restrictive than Confidant, either. In fact, they basically have the same restriction: A low mana curve, but hers treats delve and other alternate-cost spells as the mana they end up costing instead of the CMC it says on the card. Her benefit is exactly identical to that of Confidant. The major flaws I see in her (Which may be crippling, but again, I'm undecided) are that she's one CMC more than Confidant, and that she isn't useful when hellbent. Her pros are that she's slightly more survivable (Can't be Kommanded, Electrolyzed, and trades with or eats more things), she can produce CA the turn she's cast if you have Gitaxian Probe or wait for four mana, she doesn't lose life, and she plays nicer with Delve/some other alternate cost spells that might be relevant I guess. She's also a Merfolk, so I guess 'folk could splash red for her and Lightning Bolt. Probably not good, but I hope someone tests it.
Quote from MarcWizard »Unless I'm mistaken, a vialled merfolk still counts towards "second spell", which is to say if the Fish Pilot spell pierces something and then vials in Jori, they're collecting a card.
Quote from MarcWizard »Actually plenty of Grixis control lists still include the fish. Whether we like it or not, Tasigur is Legendary, you can only have 1 of him on board at any time, so grixis still counts on Fish to have multiple beaters on board, and it kills 4/5 Goyfs which is the "normal" size. With regards to that restriction, I don't think one needs to bend over backwards to meet it, unless you're playing some weird combination of countermagicks AND discard. Lately, people have been either leaning toward Jace+Discard/Rise//Fall, or the old school Snaps/Pierce/Snare/Mana Leak. So you're either one or the other. Clearly though the countermagicks version won't be interested to tap out turn 3, or even later, so I'm thinking the Jace+sorcery speed deck would be more interested. The strongest argument against Jori en isn't so much how hard it is to activate her surge ability, which I feel is really good; Its her mana cost OR toughness, depending on how you look at it. She could be 1/3 for UR and totally more playable, or 2/4, even 1/4 for the current cost and still be good. Or, give her flash. Any of these changes would make her a lot more playable in modern.
Quote from Equinox2793 »Ruins of Oran-Rief seems decent in affinity