With three awesome spoilers up already, there's no time like the present to start discussing these cards in Modern. There are still a few lingering mechanical questions about how all this works, but I figured we could open it up to the Modern community and keep our Modern-only discussion in this thread.
Not sure how wastes will affect the metagame, might even create a new deck based around them. but what I am expecting them to do, personally, is that these wastes only produce waste mana (pure colorless) and cards like the urza's lands just produce generic mana, so in order to play Newzilek, you have to have at least 2 waste mana. I feel this is asking too much for a deck to be good, so maybe with Newzilek a reanimation strategy like goryo's vengeance is required for him to be played, but thats just my 2 cents on the cards.
Eldrazi mana is going to be tough to incorporate into Modern: how will we fetch it out?
There may be cards like this:
Barry's Mountain
Land- Mountain Waste
(T: Add R or D to your mana pool.)
Note that it would be nonbasic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
I've already lost all hope for this set. A new "basic land" after 25 years that is well...not a land type. Looks like Wizards got really bored, and decided to take a poop and hope something nice comes out. Well, it didn't. I'm dumbfounded. This is looking like it is going to be setting up the worst Standard in a long time and back to back overall irrelevant sets for eternal formats.
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
I would agree with you but the two cards that are revealed so far have very powerful effects that use the eldrazi mana. For 2 colorless mana and eldrazi mana, you can copy an instant or sorcery. This seems like mono blue tron could use this maybe?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
I've already lost all hope for this set. A new "basic land" after 25 years that is well...not a land type. Looks like Wizards got really bored, and decided to take a poop and hope something nice comes out. Well, it didn't. I'm dumbfounded. This is looking like it is going to be setting up the worst Standard in a long time and back to back overall irrelevant sets for eternal formats.
It's actually mostly for EDH, as Colorless decks have never had Basics to fetch after being Ghost Quartered, From the Ashes, or to fetch with Solemn Simulacrum and Burnished Hart. I know that's not relevant to the Modern discussion (Where I must echo the "Busted or Bad" sentiment), but it's not them "taking a poop and hoping something nice comes out".
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Assuming <> is just the new colorless symbol and <> costs can only be paid in colorless, good enough <> cards could theoretically make people start using 4x painlands and hybrid filters in Modern. That would really be something.
Assuming <> is just the new colorless symbol and <> costs can only be paid in colorless, good enough <> cards could theoretically make people start using 4x painlands and hybrid filters in Modern. That would really be something.
That's true, that would be a nice effect, but the chaos it would produce is just beyond everything reasonable.
Do we now have to errata Thran Dynamo to " Add '<>' '<>' '<>' " ??
And what does Heartless Summoning do now ? Does it reduce ONLY, or also '<>' ?
I would honestly hate a swap of symbols like this after they printed cards for like 20 years with different ones ...
Thran Dynamo didn't have a 3 on it in its original printing. Nothing functional would change in that scenario, only the symbols, which have already changed. I assume cost reduction would only apply to generic costs but I guess it could go either way.
Assuming <> is just the new colorless symbol and <> costs can only be paid in colorless, good enough <> cards could theoretically make people start using 4x painlands and hybrid filters in Modern. That would really be something.
That's true, that would be a nice effect, but the chaos it would produce is just beyond everything reasonable.
Do we now have to errata Thran Dynamo to " Add '<>' '<>' '<>' " ??
And what does Heartless Summoning do now ? Does it reduce ONLY, or also '<>' ?
I would honestly hate a swap of symbols like this after they printed cards for like 20 years with different ones ...
To prevent going back and changing 20+ years of cards, but also not relive snow cards, this is a change to separate colorless from generic mana.
This whole generic vs colorless mana makes no sense. It is a new basic land type that has nothing to do with colorless. You can already see on both cards they provide both. And if by some weird stretch they are doing what some of you suggest, its the stupidest thing in magic since...since... someone help me here
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
Except "generates three generic mana"
doesn't make any sense under the (current) rules, as it is not a specific type of mana.
My bet is that <> means "1 colourless" and appear on effects and costs, and that, going forward, {1} will mean "1 generic" and only appear on costs.
It already appears on the nonbasic land as produces <>, so logic is out the window on that. And isn't it a little late to give eldrazi mana now, they had an entire eldrazi cycle go threw without using eldrazi lands. So now they use them. And innastrad is up in two sets, so unless its eldrazi vs innastrad, they use of this mana will be extremely limited.
This whole generic vs colorless mana makes no sense. It is a new basic land type that has nothing to do with colorless. You can already see on both cards they provide both. And if by some weird stretch they are doing what some of you suggest, its the stupidest thing in magic since...since... someone help me here
I think you are being extremely pessimistic considering we have only seen three cards and don't have an official explanation on <> yet.
I'm hoping for some decently powerful incentives to use <> lands, as single/double color manabases can afford to "splash" these colorless lands and will make for some decent deckbulding/manabase decisions.
A) It cant be like Snow lands because those were current basic land types made snow. This is an entirely new basic land type.
B) What more explanation for <> do we need? There is a new basic land type called "Wastes" that produces <> mana. It is NOT colorless mana. We can stop speculating about <> vs (1) etc. <> is the equivalent to the other 5 basic land types.
After 20+ years, Wizards thinks its a good idea to add new land types. Really can't wait to hear their logic on this idea.
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
Everyone it is obvious that they are making a new many type so they can print 5 new fetchlands for everyone to collect. I mean Fetches is what everyone wants anyway right?
I full expect <> to just mean "One colorless mana", requiring colorless in costs and producing colorless in abilities. It's the only thing that's going to fit within previously established game design. A sixth color, or anything that would functionally be a sixth color like "Eldrazi Mana" would cause so many design issues that it's just not worth it.
However, I don't expect <> to continue to be printed on cards outside Eldrazi-specific sets. Cards that produce colorless mana will have <> instead of 1 for this set (And likely future Eldrazi sets if the mechanic returns), but not in future sets, since those sets do not need an aesthetic indication that the card can pay for <> costs.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
*Insert giant block of annoying garbage that no one cares about but you have to scroll past anyway here*
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Spoilers:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/spoilers/169-oath-of-the-gatewatch
On my tombstone, please write "Now his body fuels the Treasure Cruise"
Or you could Kommand him back...
Check out my Youtube Page for online Magic Content!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcq-a5rTSNclFCS2o4_lVFw
Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
this set is either going to be busted beyond belief or doomed to fade into irrelevant obscurity.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)There may be cards like this:
Barry's Mountain
Land- Mountain Waste
(T: Add R or D to your mana pool.)
Note that it would be nonbasic.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Edit: New Kozilek is also probably strictly worse than the old Kozilek as well in any Tron variant.
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
It's actually mostly for EDH, as Colorless decks have never had Basics to fetch after being Ghost Quartered, From the Ashes, or to fetch with Solemn Simulacrum and Burnished Hart. I know that's not relevant to the Modern discussion (Where I must echo the "Busted or Bad" sentiment), but it's not them "taking a poop and hoping something nice comes out".
I'd love to think thats part of the point. We dont need more power in tron...
Spirits
That's true, that would be a nice effect, but the chaos it would produce is just beyond everything reasonable.
Do we now have to errata Thran Dynamo to " Add '<>' '<>' '<>' " ??
And what does Heartless Summoning do now ? Does it reduce ONLY, or also '<>' ?
I would honestly hate a swap of symbols like this after they printed cards for like 20 years with different ones ...
doesn't make any sense under the (current) rules, as it is not a specific type of mana.
My bet is that <> means "1 colourless" and appear on effects and costs, and that, going forward, {1} will mean "1 generic" and only appear on costs.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
It already appears on the nonbasic land as produces <>, so logic is out the window on that. And isn't it a little late to give eldrazi mana now, they had an entire eldrazi cycle go threw without using eldrazi lands. So now they use them. And innastrad is up in two sets, so unless its eldrazi vs innastrad, they use of this mana will be extremely limited.
Spirits
Yes. I said <> will appear in effects and costs. {1} will appear only in costs. Right?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
B) What more explanation for <> do we need? There is a new basic land type called "Wastes" that produces <> mana. It is NOT colorless mana. We can stop speculating about <> vs (1) etc. <> is the equivalent to the other 5 basic land types.
After 20+ years, Wizards thinks its a good idea to add new land types. Really can't wait to hear their logic on this idea.
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
<>,U
<>,R
<>,B
<>,W
<>,G
Now we have a new cycle of fetches
However, I don't expect <> to continue to be printed on cards outside Eldrazi-specific sets. Cards that produce colorless mana will have <> instead of 1 for this set (And likely future Eldrazi sets if the mechanic returns), but not in future sets, since those sets do not need an aesthetic indication that the card can pay for <> costs.