Even though Rift Bolt is "bad" compared to Lightning Bolt, it's still 3 damage for 1 mana. That is mainly what red decks care about. Even more important is the fact that a possible sorcery-speed Bolt would be able to hit both creatures and players. Lava Spike and Flame Slash are both fair and not oppressive because they can only target an opponent or a creature. Adding a sorcery-speed Bolt would cause red decks to become further homogenized and reduce diversity, not to mention the severe consequence of making almost every X/3 from Modern unplayable due to 8 Bolts running around.
I think you guys are getting too wrapped up in your little conversation there Very rarely is Wizards ever going to print a card for a format that isn't Standard. And thus they will never print a card that isn't Stadndard power level. In fact there are very few eternal format staples that are not Standard power level acceptable (cards like Umezawa's Jitte and Skullclamp are obvious exceptions of just pure broken cards). Take a look at Mishra's Workshop. Extreme dominator in Vintage of all formats, and yet would be perfectly fine in standard right now. Mishra's Workshop is by all means GOOD, but when all you can do is ramp out say Haunted Plate Mail it isn't broken the way we think of it now. In fact while it may end up every deck needs to play some number to be competitive, we already have that with Mutavault anyway. It is only when Mishra's Workshop combines with other cards like Lodestone Golem (which would also be perfectly fine on it's own for Standard) that broken INTERACTIONS begin to occur. Look at a card like Glittering Wish right now it is only played in random brews. But I guarantee in 10years down the line it is an extreme powerhouse in the format. All that it needs is time for more multicolored cards to come out. Anyways, my point is, stop looking and asking for for obviously powerful cards because they don't appear very often and when they you probably won't see them at all. Modern just needs time for more cards to enter the cardpool and people to find powerful synergies available.
Some of the reprints and some cards with barely any Standard applications (Eidolon of Rhetoric) show that there is at least marginal concern at Wizards towards formats other than Standard.
1st part: Wizards have proven themselves to be VERY concerned with EDH and trying to make cards for it, so they should follow through with Modern soon (And Theros was an example of them wanting to do a Limited Set).
2nd: Well, it's just good business sense to listen to your customers.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
I think you guys are getting too wrapped up in your little conversation there Very rarely is Wizards ever going to print a card for a format that isn't Standard. And thus they will never print a card that isn't Stadndard power level. In fact there are very few eternal format staples that are not Standard power level acceptable (cards like Umezawa's Jitte and Skullclamp are obvious exceptions of just pure broken cards). Take a look at Mishra's Workshop. Extreme dominator in Vintage of all formats, and yet would be perfectly fine in standard right now. Mishra's Workshop is by all means GOOD, but when all you can do is ramp out say Haunted Plate Mail it isn't broken the way we think of it now. In fact while it may end up every deck needs to play some number to be competitive, we already have that with Mutavault anyway. It is only when Mishra's Workshop combines with other cards like Lodestone Golem (which would also be perfectly fine on it's own for Standard) that broken INTERACTIONS begin to occur. Look at a card like Glittering Wish right now it is only played in random brews. But I guarantee in 10years down the line it is an extreme powerhouse in the format. All that it needs is time for more multicolored cards to come out. Anyways, my point is, stop looking and asking for for obviously powerful cards because they don't appear very often and when they you probably won't see them at all. Modern just needs time for more cards to enter the cardpool and people to find powerful synergies available.
Some of the reprints and some cards with barely any Standard applications (Eidolon of Rhetoric) show that there is at least marginal concern at Wizards towards formats other than Standard.
Some of the reprints and some cards with barely any Standard applications (Eidolon of Rhetoric) show that there is at least marginal concern at Wizards towards formats other than Standard.
1st part: Wizards have proven themselves to be VERY concerned with EDH and trying to make cards for it, so they should follow through with Modern soon (And Theros was an example of them wanting to do a Limited Set).
2nd: Well, it's just good business sense to listen to your customers.
All future sets will be "limited sets." Limited is one of the most popular formats, and it sells packs for obvious reasons. Let's just say there is more than reason that Limited is represented at every Pro Tour. Additionally, Wizards has been making cards with Modern in mind. The 2/2 flash flyer from M15 and many other cards are clear examples. The problem is that it is hard to make cards that have a big impact on modern without harming standard
Some of the reprints and some cards with barely any Standard applications (Eidolon of Rhetoric) show that there is at least marginal concern at Wizards towards formats other than Standard.
1st part: Wizards have proven themselves to be VERY concerned with EDH and trying to make cards for it, so they should follow through with Modern soon (And Theros was an example of them wanting to do a Limited Set).
2nd: Well, it's just good business sense to listen to your customers.
All future sets will be "limited sets." Limited is one of the most popular formats, and it sells packs for obvious reasons. Let's just say there is more than reason that Limited is represented at every Pro Tour. Additionally, Wizards has been making cards with Modern in mind. The 2/2 flash flyer from M15 and many other cards are clear examples. The problem is that it is hard to make cards that have a big impact on modern without harming standard
Not to mention that from what I've heard (I personally have very limited experience with it), Theros Limited wasn't very good anyway.
Although I am very happy that Wizards listens to community feedback and has changed the format of Pro Tour Washington to Modern, I think there is something people are brushing over. If Modern staples, specifically fetchlands but other staples as well, are not reprinted before Pro Tour Washington (which is actually coming up in about half a year), then you can expect MASSIVE PRICE SPIKES.
Some of the reprints and some cards with barely any Standard applications (Eidolon of Rhetoric) show that there is at least marginal concern at Wizards towards formats other than Standard.
1st part: Wizards have proven themselves to be VERY concerned with EDH and trying to make cards for it, so they should follow through with Modern soon (And Theros was an example of them wanting to do a Limited Set).
2nd: Well, it's just good business sense to listen to your customers.
All future sets will be "limited sets." Limited is one of the most popular formats, and it sells packs for obvious reasons. Let's just say there is more than reason that Limited is represented at every Pro Tour. Additionally, Wizards has been making cards with Modern in mind. The 2/2 flash flyer from M15 and many other cards are clear examples. The problem is that it is hard to make cards that have a big impact on modern without harming standard
Not to mention that from what I've heard (I personally have very limited experience with it), Theros Limited wasn't very good anyway.
It's a polarizing format. Some love it, some hate it. There's not much middle ground.
Although I am very happy that Wizards listens to community feedback and has changed the format of Pro Tour Washington to Modern, I think there is something people are brushing over. If Modern staples, specifically fetchlands but other staples as well, are not reprinted before Pro Tour Washington (which is actually coming up in about half a year), then you can expect MASSIVE PRICE SPIKES.
Huge difference in changing a format at a future event, then changing their out time and trying to rush cards some think we need a reprint of last week. I cannot see fetches being reprinted until fall of 2015. The timing just doesnt play out to get them sooner.
Quote from solisus »
No. No it would not. 1 mana for 3 damage to a creature or player is busted level good and that will still be true even if the spell in question is a sorcery. Aggro decks have enough trouble as it is, and allowing decks to play 8 bolts would make them completely unplayable. Bolt itself already oppresses them.
Did you read the whole statement I made? Because i said mainly the same thing you said. Just because it would not be as good as bolt, doesnt mean every red deck wouldnt play it.
Although I am very happy that Wizards listens to community feedback and has changed the format of Pro Tour Washington to Modern, I think there is something people are brushing over. If Modern staples, specifically fetchlands but other staples as well, are not reprinted before Pro Tour Washington (which is actually coming up in about half a year), then you can expect MASSIVE PRICE SPIKES.
Oh god, I didn't even think of that.
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Legacy
Death and Taxes Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
Although I am very happy that Wizards listens to community feedback and has changed the format of Pro Tour Washington to Modern, I think there is something people are brushing over. If Modern staples, specifically fetchlands but other staples as well, are not reprinted before Pro Tour Washington (which is actually coming up in about half a year), then you can expect MASSIVE PRICE SPIKES.
Oh god, that is going to hurt. I guess that I can assume that the shocklands and other Return to Ravnica cards will continue to slowly rise instead of spiking, but there is no guarantee for the others.
Theros limited by itself or with M14 was good, but add in Born of the Gods or Journey into Nyx, and it went down hill fast. Slow play, nothing felt powerful, and the return on the cards you could pull tended to be lower than may were used to.
Although I am very happy that Wizards listens to community feedback and has changed the format of Pro Tour Washington to Modern, I think there is something people are brushing over. If Modern staples, specifically fetchlands but other staples as well, are not reprinted before Pro Tour Washington (which is actually coming up in about half a year), then you can expect MASSIVE PRICE SPIKES.
That will suck but it's probably going to be a temporary thing. By the time of Pro Tour Washington we're going to be approaching the time where we'll be in the window that they can actually get a product out there to alleviate the price spikes. Maybe we'll see something like Modern Masters 2 with fetchlands and some of the other expensive cards, followed by the block after Khans also having fetches.
Although I am very happy that Wizards listens to community feedback and has changed the format of Pro Tour Washington to Modern, I think there is something people are brushing over. If Modern staples, specifically fetchlands but other staples as well, are not reprinted before Pro Tour Washington (which is actually coming up in about half a year), then you can expect MASSIVE PRICE SPIKES.
That will suck but it's probably going to be a temporary thing. By the time of Pro Tour Washington we're going to be approaching the time where we'll be in the window that they can actually get a product out there to alleviate the price spikes. Maybe we'll see something like Modern Masters 2 with fetchlands and some of the other expensive cards, followed by the block after Khans also having fetches.
Definitely not. I'll say it again. Wizards chose not to have a Modern PT because there will be NO FETCH RE-PRINTS before/during this PT season. It is the only true and logical reason they would do it. But now because everyone complained, the format that is already getting too expensive to get into will only get more expensive. Say hello to $250 Tarmogoyfs... Also make sure to pick up a playset of all Shocks right as they rotate out before SCG eats them all up and inflates the prices on them too.
I think the majority of players that are going to qualify for the PT already have their decks and cards or have a team to switch card with. I really dont think the prices will spike like some think. They will keep rising after rotation though. We are in a new world with the Modern market. With SCG running events every weekend, we can expect an increase like the Legacy staples when SCG started Legacy tournaments every weekend. I was hoping shocks would dip to the single digits by now so I could grab some play sets, but they are starting to climb, not go down. I dont expect Modern staples to dip too much anymore at rotation. People are getting smart.
I think the majority of players that are going to qualify for the PT already have their decks and cards or have a team to switch card with. I really dont think the prices will spike like some think. They will keep rising after rotation though. We are in a new world with the Modern market. With SCG running events every weekend, we can expect an increase like the Legacy staples when SCG started Legacy tournaments every weekend. I was hoping shocks would dip to the single digits by now so I could grab some play sets, but they are starting to climb, not go down. I dont expect Modern staples to dip too much anymore at rotation. People are getting smart.
The prices spiked last PT. What is different now that will stop them?
Prices will spike for sure. Good standard players with large wallets may try to buy into Modern just as another chance to get into a PT. Prices will spike and thtlat does suck but it keeps Modern at the front of peoples minds, which is important if the format is to contiue to grow. With a Modern PT I would think that when fetchs are reprinted, the packs sales will be higher then if there was not a PT, due to the number of people interested in Modern.
Modern and Legacy events are firing worldwide. A specific event won't cause a sudden price spike, what causes price spikes is the CONTINUED demand.
When stores start selling out their fetch stock, and they can't get them at the buylist price, the buylist price increases to maintain stock, as a result, the card's price goes up as well. Card prices will continue to climb as long as people are willing to buy them. Seeing as this is a trading card game, and cards are a commodity needed to be competitive, people buy them if they need them for their deck.
It's not a bad investment to have all 20 modern fetches (or even all 40). You can wait for reprints if they ever come, but prices and demand won't disappear on cards like that. I'd rather just buy in when I can and not have to worry about it. Also regarding PT level players, does anyone honestly think that 99% of the field doesn't either a) have the cards themselves or b) have an available access to them well before the event? I mean there's plenty format grinders who already have a pretty available pool of the formats, so somebody who actually plays the game professionally and can travel to events year round would likely have the cards they need to play it.
I think the majority of players that are going to qualify for the PT already have their decks and cards or have a team to switch card with. I really dont think the prices will spike like some think. They will keep rising after rotation though. We are in a new world with the Modern market. With SCG running events every weekend, we can expect an increase like the Legacy staples when SCG started Legacy tournaments every weekend. I was hoping shocks would dip to the single digits by now so I could grab some play sets, but they are starting to climb, not go down. I dont expect Modern staples to dip too much anymore at rotation. People are getting smart.
The prices spiked last PT. What is different now that will stop them?
The majority of players/teams already own their staples. The player base has learned that hanging on to Standard cards that are Modern playable is the smart thing to do. We are not seeing the dip before rotation we normally see. I doubt we will see the spike like we saw last year. Especially when you figure the Modern PT has only 1 event.
Now I am not saying cards wont rise, because they will over time. I just dont think we will see the huge spikes we have seen in the past. Unless Khans reveals one or more new decks that include cards flying under the radar right now.
I think the majority of players that are going to qualify for the PT already have their decks and cards or have a team to switch card with. I really dont think the prices will spike like some think. They will keep rising after rotation though. We are in a new world with the Modern market. With SCG running events every weekend, we can expect an increase like the Legacy staples when SCG started Legacy tournaments every weekend. I was hoping shocks would dip to the single digits by now so I could grab some play sets, but they are starting to climb, not go down. I dont expect Modern staples to dip too much anymore at rotation. People are getting smart.
The prices spiked last PT. What is different now that will stop them?
The difference is that there isn't a huge GP with the largest advertising budget to date and in the same format directly following it (GP Richmond, in case that was too cryptic).
Protour moderns are back, glad to see the change. If you want to talk about it, head over to the rumor mill. As this doesnt really have anything to do with moderns future or anything, it doesnt need to be in the modern sub until its a week away, per the usual.
Absolutely not. It's a sorcery bolt with a BARELY ever relevant downside. It's just as bad.
1st part: Wizards have proven themselves to be VERY concerned with EDH and trying to make cards for it, so they should follow through with Modern soon (And Theros was an example of them wanting to do a Limited Set).
2nd: Well, it's just good business sense to listen to your customers.
Weeee modern! Weeeee! Celebrate! Looking forward to see what khans block does to the format now that modern is back on the big stage.
All future sets will be "limited sets." Limited is one of the most popular formats, and it sells packs for obvious reasons. Let's just say there is more than reason that Limited is represented at every Pro Tour. Additionally, Wizards has been making cards with Modern in mind. The 2/2 flash flyer from M15 and many other cards are clear examples. The problem is that it is hard to make cards that have a big impact on modern without harming standard
It's a polarizing format. Some love it, some hate it. There's not much middle ground.
Huge difference in changing a format at a future event, then changing their out time and trying to rush cards some think we need a reprint of last week. I cannot see fetches being reprinted until fall of 2015. The timing just doesnt play out to get them sooner.
Did you read the whole statement I made? Because i said mainly the same thing you said. Just because it would not be as good as bolt, doesnt mean every red deck wouldnt play it.
Oh god, I didn't even think of that.
Death and Taxes
Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron
Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
Oh god, that is going to hurt. I guess that I can assume that the shocklands and other Return to Ravnica cards will continue to slowly rise instead of spiking, but there is no guarantee for the others.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
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That will suck but it's probably going to be a temporary thing. By the time of Pro Tour Washington we're going to be approaching the time where we'll be in the window that they can actually get a product out there to alleviate the price spikes. Maybe we'll see something like Modern Masters 2 with fetchlands and some of the other expensive cards, followed by the block after Khans also having fetches.
Definitely not. I'll say it again. Wizards chose not to have a Modern PT because there will be NO FETCH RE-PRINTS before/during this PT season. It is the only true and logical reason they would do it. But now because everyone complained, the format that is already getting too expensive to get into will only get more expensive. Say hello to $250 Tarmogoyfs... Also make sure to pick up a playset of all Shocks right as they rotate out before SCG eats them all up and inflates the prices on them too.
The prices spiked last PT. What is different now that will stop them?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
When stores start selling out their fetch stock, and they can't get them at the buylist price, the buylist price increases to maintain stock, as a result, the card's price goes up as well. Card prices will continue to climb as long as people are willing to buy them. Seeing as this is a trading card game, and cards are a commodity needed to be competitive, people buy them if they need them for their deck.
It's not a bad investment to have all 20 modern fetches (or even all 40). You can wait for reprints if they ever come, but prices and demand won't disappear on cards like that. I'd rather just buy in when I can and not have to worry about it. Also regarding PT level players, does anyone honestly think that 99% of the field doesn't either a) have the cards themselves or b) have an available access to them well before the event? I mean there's plenty format grinders who already have a pretty available pool of the formats, so somebody who actually plays the game professionally and can travel to events year round would likely have the cards they need to play it.
The majority of players/teams already own their staples. The player base has learned that hanging on to Standard cards that are Modern playable is the smart thing to do. We are not seeing the dip before rotation we normally see. I doubt we will see the spike like we saw last year. Especially when you figure the Modern PT has only 1 event.
Now I am not saying cards wont rise, because they will over time. I just dont think we will see the huge spikes we have seen in the past. Unless Khans reveals one or more new decks that include cards flying under the radar right now.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
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