MTG Salvation

Ok, thanks for that.

Asked because considering to buy one copy for my UW deck while he's still in the 60 price range.. I do remember seeing a thread in Magic General that he's also very strong in Standard right now.

Quote from The Fluff »

Speaking of Teferi.. is there a chance of his price to go down someday? Or he's on his way to becoming an 80$ card like JTMS?

Probably when he rotates out of Standard. Remember he is also a powerhouse in Standard and Jeskai Control plays 3-4 copies of him and is one of the best decks.

After rotation though it's mostly Modern demand for Teferi while JTMS also sees quite a bit of play in Legacy and Vintage. Also JTMS is simply JTMS. The stigma that is attached to him will probably be enough to always keep his price high no matter what.

That being said Teferi is undeniably one of the stronger walkers they have printed yet when you consider in which type of decks he fits into. We will see how fares in the future compared to LoTV and JTMS.

Yeah I think Teferi, Hero of Dominaria will retain its price as long as it's played in Standard as well. That's where most of its price comes from; otherwise it would just be a $15 card based on Modern alone.

im with cfusionpm, teferi seems more like liliana the last hope than jtms as it pertains to non-rotating demand. where he ultimately ends up will probably be determined by his relevancy in the second half of his standard term. like if the next set makes UW even better, he might balloon up and float at higher price point; even after rotation. or vice versa.

edit: oh yeh, what do you guys predict the post-release box prices for UMA are going to look like? i saw the preorder prices for the box toppers on SCG. if they end up being only half, id imagine that adds quite a bit to the box EV.

i normally dont go in for boxes, but im thinking of just grabbing one and sitting on it. would the fact that the box topper packs can be seen through impact the price point of sealed boxes somewhere down the line? higher chance of fraud, so less buyer confidence. that kinda thing.

Quote from Tolsiimir »

Quote from idSurge »

When it has no in game impact on balance (Overwatch) compared to pay wall (Star Wars, I believe it was) then thats one thing. I'll never call it gambling, just because some people have poor self control.

I'm sorry, but what kind of logic is that? You could say the same for slot machines. ''I'll never call it gambling, people just have poor self-control''. That's the whole point of gambling and lootboxes aswell. To prey on people with addictive tendencies. Lootboxes are definitely gambling. I actually agree with you in that I don't mind them if they don't affect gameplay, but that doesn't change the fact that they are gambling and should be considered as such.

And tbh the game industry has brought this ***** on themselves. They pushed it too far, crapped out to many garbage games designed just to make you pay, and now they should suffer the consequences.

Spot on. A recent report from the UK projects the lootbox industry will hit $50B by 2022, assuming no regulations are put into place by then. Slot machines are a perfect analogy; lootboxes are designed to be flashy and give players that hit of sweet dopamine. Those prone to have addictive tendencies are milked for all their worth. The only difference is the majority of the industrialized world doesn't have a 24/7 slot machine in their pocket. Regardless of how someone feels personally on whether it constitutes gambling or not, the definition of gambling speaks for itself, "taking a risky action in hope of a desired result". The main reason lootboxes aren't already considered forms of gambling in the U.S. isn't much different than any other "regulated" industry, the ESRB is a self-governing organization and there's no way they're going to label micro-transactions of chance gambling without a fight, because they simply generate too much money. Any game with gambling is supposedly deemed AO 17+ automatically; it's the reason why remakes of the early Pokemon games had to get rid of the 'Game Corner' before releasing in the US market. It speaks volumes when an entire industry shifts toward this model of gameplay.

Quote from Galerion »

Quote from The Fluff »

Speaking of Teferi.. is there a chance of his price to go down someday? Or he's on his way to becoming an 80$ card like JTMS?

Probably when he rotates out of Standard. Remember he is also a powerhouse in Standard and Jeskai Control plays 3-4 copies of him and is one of the best decks.

After rotation though it's mostly Modern demand for Teferi while JTMS also sees quite a bit of play in Legacy and Vintage. Also JTMS is simply JTMS. The stigma that is attached to him will probably be enough to always keep his price high no matter what.

That being said Teferi is undeniably one of the stronger walkers they have printed yet when you consider in which type of decks he fits into. We will see how fares in the future compared to LoTV and JTMS.

Quote from FoodChainGoblins »

Yeah I think Teferi, Hero of Dominaria will retain its price as long as it's played in Standard as well. That's where most of its price comes from; otherwise it would just be a $15 card based on Modern alone.

After reading all the other opinions here on the thread. Have decided to delay buying Teferi. It's only for testing purposes anyway. Will probably buy when he drops to 30 something at rotation.

Can anyone tell me if Chinese cards are printed with the same stock/ink process as Japanese? Google is failing me.

You think they use the same printers the counterfeiters use for the Chinese Cards isnt that the joke, the counterfeits have better print quality.

Well thats the issue, google Chinese MTG and its all hits on counterfeit cards, I just want the 'best' prints I can get, and dont mind if they are in another language.

There are at least two distinct different forms of card that I have dealt with. The first is the more common one, and those have an ever-so-slightly thicker feel and are somewhat waxy to the touch (like a playing card). The good ones are incredible, but still feel "off." The other set boasts adding the holofoil stamp, which are still total failures outside of a sleeve. They feel the opposite of "waxy" and feel very dry and "paper-y." They feel thinner and colors aren't quite as dark or vibrant. The holo stamp is slightly raised and can be scratched off (looks like was cut and placed from bulk rare), and every single one has a slight cut into what should be a perfect oval.

Every single one of them fail the light test. The light is not as bright and it is the wrong hue. There are also numerous smaller issues that you can see in the colors, text, and artwork.

In a sleeve, across the table, both of the sets are almost indistinguishable from real ones, as long as the colors aren't wildly off (or text isn't misplaced, off-center, etc).

To be clear, I'm just looking for 'best print' like the Japanese and Euro cards are, vs the North American. Not fakes.

Quote from idSurge »

To be clear, I'm just looking for 'best print' like the Japanese and Euro cards are, vs the North American. Not fakes.

Whoops! Lol. Thought this was in response to SaffronOlive's recent tweets. 😆

I have a hard time believing Teferi would go down much. Compare to Celestial Colonnade and Cryptic Command. He's better than both.

Quote from pierrebai »

I have a hard time believing Teferi would go down much. Compare to Celestial Colonnade and Cryptic Command. He's better than both.

Well he won't be a bulk rare that's for sure but the decks that do play him play like 2 copies at most. Colonnade is pretty much always a playset and Cryptic is often a 3 or 4 of too.

I think there are good odds he gets more expensive with the next (UW/RG/WB/UG/BR) set as the mana for Esper/UW will improve, improving potentially, the control decks even further.

True but Walkers tend to have a markup. I say he probably settles in the 20-30 range after Dom rotates. He is similar to Lili of the Veil but cannot fit in as many decks, plus Dominaria was printed a lot.

He is 2 of in Modern, 1 off sometimes in some Vintage/Legacy Decks lol.

IMO, Teferi is a prime reprint target in the next round of challenger decks. That's assuming WotC continues the product line, but I don't see why not as the initial wave appeared to be well received.

I would like to thank UMA for reducing the price of Kitchen Finks down to 2-3 dollars each. It was a card I could never afford before, because it costed 15-20.. and I didn't feel good paying that amount for something that's mostly a sideaboard card. Could finally get some copies now.


EDIT:

And it seems the success of Phoenix decks has also caused Bedlam Reveler's price to rise.

Yeah I saw low stock on Thing and Revelers.

I've been posting in this thread for over a year about my plummeting MTGO bundle that I thankfully sold in 09/2017. Florian Koch also discusses this phenomenon and the connection between MTGO prices and Arena in a recent article:
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/mtg-arena-is-killing-magic-online/

There are some issues with this article, notably a lack of good data and some questionable datapoints in the data that is used. As a whole, however, it's an important discussion for Modern players and those who own MTGO cards. As I said before and as Koch emphasizes here, if you own MTGO cards, you are taking on significant financial risk at this point. All signs point to an impending financial loss of most of your collection's value if you choose to stay. Maybe Wizards appeases MTGO players with a buyout/redemption of some kind, but there is no evidence or reason to believe that is going to happen; the simplest response is just letting the product go in whatever direction it ends up going. If you want to play Modern online, it's a great time to buy decks cheap and get the Modern experience. If that is why you want to own MTGO cards, great! Continue to own them and/or start buying them. But if you are holding onto a collection due to its financial value, I strongly encourage you to sell out before things get even worse. There is just way too much risk in MTGO right now from a financial perspective.

Yep, I've seen everything going down, I'm at the point where probably 75%-80% of my 'value' in MTGO is tied into a playset of Arclight Phoenix which is about $100 Tickets right now. I've gotten out of everything else, even fetchlands, shocks, all of it.

saying that mgto is dying is overdramatic/sensationalist. the platform is merely transitioning to what it should have been all along: purely an outlet to play on digital form. up to this point the 'collectible' aspect has been far too emphasized, which gave rise to grinders/speculators/hoarders driving up prices in some insane mimicry of paper. arena is shattering this disillusion.

wizards isnt going to implement all the formats on arena. they just cant. it would take forever when they are already taking forever doing the simplest of updates. this means that mtgo is the platform to enjoy everything else for all the players that want to for whatever reasons (ie no paper community in your area, etc). similarly any new format they implement is going to be severely limited, likely untested, and probably wont be very good until future sets add more depth.

tbh this might be a great compromise for all those saying the game or formats popularity is limited by the price barrier. make collection and all that it entails the purview of paper. let the paper cards be expensive because the experience of socializing, owning a physical product and going to events is its own thing. however if anyone is only interested in the gameplay and or competition, then you can do it on the cheap online. just let the paper secondary market be what it is, its about collection and owning cards that look sweet, or paying 5 bucks or whatever entry fee to hit up local events and meet like minded people.

for example ive seen plenty of reports of people playing arena and it sparking an interest in owning the cards IRL. they obviously dont NEED the cards to play, so the price being high becomes something you opt into rather than a requirement for participation. people like this have zero room to complain about prices, because they can already play however much they want whenever they want.

imo modern having this would only enhance its popularity, not diminish it.

the fact that wizards is renaming grand prix to 'magicfests' leaves me to believe they have this very idea in mind.

Quote from tronix »

saying that mgto is dying is overdramatic/sensationalist. the platform is merely transitioning to what it should have been all along: purely an outlet to play on digital form. up to this point the 'collectible' aspect has been far too emphasized, which gave rise to grinders/speculators/hoarders driving up prices in some insane mimicry of paper. arena is shattering this disillusion.

If you want to invest in MTGO to play Modern or other non-rotating formats, it's not dying and it's actually a great time to buy in. If you want to make value from your collection or support a long term investment with your MTGO cards, it's absolutely dying and you are taking on significant financial risk in doing so. The odds of MTGO value rebounding from this current slump given its trajectory is extremely low. A bundle of my cards sold in 09/2017, if sold today, would fetch only 57% of the sale price. That's a horrible 43% drop in only 14 months. MTGO value was dropping even before Arena, and Arena has only hastened the inevitable. This may be doomsaying in the sense that I am foretelling the doom of a product's financial side, but it's not hyperbole. I'm simply reading clear signs that I have been tracking for over 12 months and have been trending that way for even longer.

oh yeah i have no doubt that prices are bottoming out, but the reason(s) its doing so stem from the unhealthy elements being pushed out. unfortunately there are going to be some number of people who get caught in the transition; where they werent exactly hoarding a large collection; but their deck prices tank so they dont get to enjoy trading out for like a 10-15% loss as everyone else has historically.

i think the prices will eventually stabilize into a form much similar to how it has been, it will just be much lower across the board.

so i dont think the game is dying, but what i think it WILL do is shine a light on the motivations for playing. for instance grinders making a non-insignificant amount of money. yeah i know its supposedly paltry compared to any real income, but its still absurd that its possible at all. pros and those looking to be real competitors only care insomuch as to qualify for MOCS, so its just this one subset of people taking advantage of a broken system.

arena has shown that people are willing to play the game FOR the sake of the game. not because some promise of monetary compensation. i dont think its far fetched to believe mtgo can live in the same space, but offering alternative gameplay than arena. whether that gameplay is good enough is another question entirely.