MTG Salvation

Yeah I certainly would not expect any money put into the cards themselves on MTGO to give an equal return. Costs on there are wildly out of touch with Paper.

Quote from tronix »

yeah mtgo prices were expected to drop (ptq season over, new standard, etc), but its even more dramatic because of arena. its a good time to get in because its basically confirmed that arena won't support modern or beyond for at least a few years (as well as some features in line with facets of competitive magic). so if you assume that modern remains remotely as popular as it has been, then the prices will rise again at some point. maybe not as high as their various peaks, but rise nonetheless.

just make sure to temper your expectations for return on investment. the mtgo market is volatile/fickle since its all digital.

I would doubly caution to expect absolutely no return on investment. I sold cards a year ago for a value that they only returned to once. They never exceeded that sale value, and now they are at 50% of it. MTGO value has declined significantly for a variety of reasons, which is great for players who want to try decks but terrible for anyone who wants to recoup value or make money.

Yeah, get your deck/cards now, but certainly dont expect a return on investment unless you are expecting to grind events at a profit.

Quote from ktkenshinx »

Quote from tronix »

yeah mtgo prices were expected to drop (ptq season over, new standard, etc), but its even more dramatic because of arena. its a good time to get in because its basically confirmed that arena won't support modern or beyond for at least a few years (as well as some features in line with facets of competitive magic). so if you assume that modern remains remotely as popular as it has been, then the prices will rise again at some point. maybe not as high as their various peaks, but rise nonetheless.

just make sure to temper your expectations for return on investment. the mtgo market is volatile/fickle since its all digital.

I would doubly caution to expect absolutely no return on investment. I sold cards a year ago for a value that they only returned to once. They never exceeded that sale value, and now they are at 50% of it. MTGO value has declined significantly for a variety of reasons, which is great for players who want to try decks but terrible for anyone who wants to recoup value or make money.

I'm about $2000 into my MTGO account, over buying stuff for the last year. When I priced it out about 2 weeks ago, it was down to $1400 in value.

yeah you can only reasonably expect to cash out of mtgo and make a portion of what you put in sans event winnings. very few people are in a position to make money through mtgo, let alone achieve it. that said, i wouldnt say this is any more the case now than in the past. arena has people fearful that mtgo is dying or defunct, but playing arena for any serious amount of time shows just how far it is from being comprehensive enough to come close to covering the space that mtgo covers.

uncertainty has people selling out en mass, prices plummet, so modern goers looking for a reliable digital outlet profit.

the only thing i see that could lower mtgo modern prices further is the announcement of arena-centric format that deals with rotation. given enough support (including paper tournaments), that would have implications for modern across the board.

I always had the belief that it would be pretty easy. I have a friend that makes a living off of MTGO, although his rent is either paid for or at a discount because he lives with his parents.

I have heard from no fewer than 3 friends that I should play MTGO because it "would be easy for me to go infinite."

Does set redemption put a real floor on how low presently-redeemable sets can get in MTGO? I mean it was already profitable to buy up MTGO sets and redeem when prices weren’t tanking. But there has to be a logical limit - if redemption becomes too cheap that actually could impact paper prices. Why would people buy paper Karn and Teferi at top dollar if it would cost less to get a full Dominaria set through MTGO redeem?

Because one is real

Quote from Mtgthewary »

Because one is real

You miss the point. If you can generate a set in MTGO you can redeem it for paper and save yourself a $100 bucks.

How many people do this? How often do or others have done this here in this thread? I dont know this, but i think most never get real cards and spend only money to screencards

MTGO is dead, the real value its the paper cards not on digital all the good players, collectors and stores know it, plus mtgarena its a like a hearstone for casuals/LGS players and its free! ... so why is the reason i have to spend real money on no-real cards just for play online? for what? to win what? digital boosters? tix? reedem standard cards? its not worht it, the real fun its in the LGS and in the GPs/Big paper tournaments, MTGO is for Pros or gp people the rest of player its a very bad investment

(Imagine a typical LGS player that only has 1 modern deck but love it and comes to 1-2 times per week, why he has to spend money again in build the same deck in digital?)

i think mtgarena will kill mtgo in the long time, just because its free (and in the future they can add more formats and migrante people for mtgo to arena and give them his collection in the other game ...)

My first love is paper magic but I barely get the opportunity to play IRL anymore. The only value I would ever assign to digital cards is the ability to play whenever I want. For a lot of people like me, that's definitely worth something. Not interested in standard, be it paper or arena, so MTGO is looking more and more appealing, especially with prices being down right now. Nothing will ever replace cardboard crack for me though, I get just as much pleasure out of building decks and adding cards to my collection as I do actually playing the game, value be damned!

Quote from blacklotus »

MTGO is dead, the real value its the paper cards not on digital all the good players, collectors and stores know it, plus mtgarena its a like a hearstone for casuals/LGS players and its free! ... so why is the reason i have to spend real money on no-real cards just for play online? for what? to win what? digital boosters? tix? reedem standard cards? its not worht it, the real fun its in the LGS and in the GPs/Big paper tournaments, MTGO is for Pros or gp people the rest of player its a very bad investment

(Imagine a typical LGS player that only has 1 modern deck but love it and comes to 1-2 times per week, why he has to spend money again in build the same deck in digital?)

i think mtgarena will kill mtgo in the long time, just because its free (and in the future they can add more formats and migrante people for mtgo to arena and give them his collection in the other game ...)

the thing is you arent making any points about mtgo that didnt apply before arena. so the question comes down to whether arena completely supplants mtgo, and the answer is a resounding no. wizards has even admitted they are years and years away from implementing current non-rotating formats, let alone any sort of plans of forced integration with merged collections.

the reasons for buying into mtgo have always dubious, yet it has continued to serve a niche role and thrived on convenience for close to a decade with its own wonky economy. which at the end of the day is centered on a currency that can and does translate to real money, which is so much different from arena gems that it is comical.

is it less relevant with arena in the picture? sure. is it dead? hardly.

Liliana, the Last Hope feels to be slowly creeping up again. Averaging $45 and climbing, seems about time to sell mine (picked up for about $20 a piece). I'm not using them, I have the GRN Masterpiece vers, and she is prime target for another "masterpiece" or "masters set" style reprint.

Quote from tronix »

Quote from blacklotus »

MTGO is dead, the real value its the paper cards not on digital all the good players, collectors and stores know it, plus mtgarena its a like a hearstone for casuals/LGS players and its free! ... so why is the reason i have to spend real money on no-real cards just for play online? for what? to win what? digital boosters? tix? reedem standard cards? its not worht it, the real fun its in the LGS and in the GPs/Big paper tournaments, MTGO is for Pros or gp people the rest of player its a very bad investment

(Imagine a typical LGS player that only has 1 modern deck but love it and comes to 1-2 times per week, why he has to spend money again in build the same deck in digital?)

i think mtgarena will kill mtgo in the long time, just because its free (and in the future they can add more formats and migrante people for mtgo to arena and give them his collection in the other game ...)

the thing is you arent making any points about mtgo that didnt apply before arena. so the question comes down to whether arena completely supplants mtgo, and the answer is a resounding no. wizards has even admitted they are years and years away from implementing current non-rotating formats, let alone any sort of plans of forced integration with merged collections.

the reasons for buying into mtgo have always dubious, yet it has continued to serve a niche role and thrived on convenience for close to a decade with its own wonky economy. which at the end of the day is centered on a currency that can and does translate to real money, which is so much different from arena gems that it is comical.

is it less relevant with arena in the picture? sure. is it dead? hardly.

Up until last year and Arena's release, my MTGO investment value was steadily growing. Many cards remained a strong investment and held value or appreciated after their purchase. Once Arena really took off, however, MTGO value dove off a cliff and never looked up. Was Arena the CAUSE of this? Partially, I'm sure, but I'm also sure other factors contributed. The end result, however, still seems to be an unprecedented drop in MTGO value where it's no longer a gradually appreciating product.

Incidentally, this is good for Modern players. It will make it easier to buy into the product and play MTGO decks. It's just bad for people who expect to make money from their purchase alone. Of course, none of this accounts for any profits earned from winning events and packs/tix. That will still be a source of value.

yeah i expect that the market will never fully recover from the huge price drop from the big sell out. which is obviously a bummer for those with established/substantial collections, however i expect that most all mtgo players on some level understand that 'collecting' a digital product holds transient value at the best of times. its why i attribute mtgo prices rarely being mentioned in this thread.

that said, i think the worst of it is over. if we are just looking at right now from a starting point, i do think that more regular appreciation/depreciation will happen for non-standard staples. which, like you said, makes buying in attractive.

as i mentioned before though the only thing i would be watching out for is the announcement of the non-rotating format on arena. im sure some amount of modern players will take it as a sign that the format itself will become obsolete, and that will likely translate to price drops on both mtgo AND paper.

Quote from tronix »

as i mentioned before though the only thing i would be watching out for is the announcement of the non-rotating format on arena. im sure some amount of modern players will take it as a sign that the format itself will become obsolete, and that will likely translate to price drops on both mtgo AND paper.

Considering there will be both Shocks, and Check lands in that format (if its today's Arena sets + going forward) I think that will be a huge huge blow to Modern. There is a lot of talk about how good this Standard is. If they go back to Shadow's as I believe the goal is, there is some significant additions to an 'Arena Modern' format.

Frontier sucked, because Standard through most of those periods sucked. The last 2 sets have done a lot to inject a large amount of power into an 'Arena' format.

Pretty sure this isnt the place to discuss it, but Arena Modern, could be quite the format.

The only failing at that point, will be the lack of Fetch's. If they print Fetchlands again in Standard??? Where Digital/Arena has zero 'shuffling issues'? Put a nail in Modern at that point I bet.

yeah i dont want to get too off topic, but the upcoming arena format, and how it will effect modern prices will be interesting to see how it plays out. its delving into some more abstract, or at least less specific, details about non-rotating formats; or arena.

for instance:

-how much of arena's success is tied to standard being relatively good, and how much is it the game (and what it represents) itself?

-or what are all the qualities of modern that make it so popular? and can an arena-centric format adequately replicate them?

-how much of moderns popularity is attributed to standards (low) popularity?

-how much paper tournament support will this new format receive? will that support come at the expense of modern?

like we know standard sucking makes people turn to modern or beyond, but not to what extent. also we know that a drawing quality of modern is less seen or less emphasized play patterns; basically all the unfair stuff. what does it mean if arena never has that? this isnt like modern supplanting extended, its few or no combo decks, prison, land destruction, etc.

the arena format also just has to be really good in its own right. and making good formats isnt easy nor fast. does a series of good standard formats jammed together result in an equally good, if not better format? seems like a stretch to believe so.

lastly a determining factor will be how many entrenched players still want or need a digital outlet for everything else. even if arena-modern is this masterpiece, people still love their modern decks, or pauper decks, or legacy decks, or commander decks. how far can prices be propped up because of that?

Yeah it will be interesting, my own dissatisfaction is going to come down to the next few unban announcements.

EDIT: I cant escape it, both Arena and MTGO are all bloody Mono Red Steam-Kin...lol

Has there been an announcement about an Arena format? Or is it just speculation? Can you throw this planeswalker a link?

Just speculation.

Quote from idSurge »

EDIT: I cant escape it, both Arena and MTGO are all bloody Mono Red Steam-Kin...lol

Sorry for taking this sideways but...there's arena on Modern? I haven't touched arena in a while. Was there an update?

No, just a note that its present in both environments.

7% kickback on tcgplayer for the next ten hours (midnight EST) might be a good time to grab some stuff.

Quote from rcwraspy »

Has there been an announcement about an Arena format? Or is it just speculation? Can you throw this planeswalker a link?

the only thing confirmed is that there will be a non-rotating format on arena, and it wont be modern. anything past that is speculation.

Our goal is to ultimately provide a format beyond Standard for Arena, though what that ultimately looks like will likely develop throughout the next year. Creating this new format isn't something we want to rush into, and this lets us go into Open Beta with a much more reasonable amount of initial content. Beyond that... who knows. And before you ask - "Modern" as a format includes over 15 years of Magic: The Gathering, spanning 61 sets, dozens of keyword abilities, and almost 12,000 cards. In short, it's a lot of work and realistically years of development time to fully support it.

https://forums.mtgarena.com/forums/threads/37045