Master series not only need to have high end staple such as Mox Opals, Arcbound Ravager, and Inkmoth Nexus. They also need to have some value common/uncommon (Steel Overseer, Vault Skirge, Cranial Plating, Ghirapur Aether Grid) to attract players.
The truth is, there is only a limited amount of cards worth of the reprint. The idea of creating Modern challenge decks or Modern event decks is trying to compete the "reprint resource" with Master series...
There is a good article for you to read, as a reference:
The problem with that article is that the people who run MTG goldfish know more about card equity than wizards apparently does. The thing is there is reprinting a card to increase availability and printing a card to reduce the price of it, and in modern there's really only a handful of cards that actually need a price reduction.
Basically, it's healthier for the game if a deck is a bunch of 10-20 dollar cards with a few 25-50 dollar staples than if a deck is a bunch of 5-10 dollar cards and a few 60-100 dollar staples.
Suppose WOTC does something to make 60-100 dollar staples down to 25-50 dollar range, just like you wish, how can they sell you 10$ USD per pack in the Master series ???
They need to keep the price above certain level for some staples, from the business point of view.
Do you know what those cards costed when they were in masters 2015? They don't need to be 50+.
If there is any other card you are referring to, please let me know.
Karn liberated, is the big one that was 30 USD at the time. Later examples that had their price jump were lotv and snap. People here don't seem to understand what WoTC wants in regards to making modern chase cards. They don't want a few cards being insanely pricey, they want a lot of cards to carry decent demand. That is part of the reason they are having mtg goldfish obscure data.
Also worst counter examples ever. I dont even know why I'm bothering.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What makes a chase card a chase card in a competitive format? For that matter, what is a chase card?
The problem with Liliana of the Veil or Karn Liberated is pretty strait forward: They are chase cards gone wrong. No card should be at that price in this game with the kind of print run numbers the sets have, but the reason they ended up that way is a lack of alternative options and the lack of proper price maintenance by the company. I mean I could pick just about any card including Arcbound Ravager as it is over priced as well, though Inkmoth Nexus really doesn't fall into this because it isn't a chase card as much as a side grade option at this point unless infect somehow comes back, and that deck the chase card is more Noble Hierarch.
Ugh, I'm so tired of these guys spending all their time chasing after whatever moral high ground or political position they seem to be going after, investigating youtubers, and now even changing their phrasing so that they don't use he / she and just use the word "they" as of Return to Dominaria (thanks spoiler article, also yay we got buy a box promos that potentially are cards not in the set itself that are standard legal. Hope no one needs a 4 of those or that the leaked article is wrong...). Just print cards people want whether they are new cards or old cards. Is that a problem? For crying out loud they can't even seem to do that right now.
These cards are expensive because the wizards of today is losing to the wizards of yester year and the company seems to be so worried about this they have had to piecemeal out the parts so they keep the thing going as long as they can. Hour of Devastation is now out of print one year early because there's literally no demand for it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
, and there is no 2nd Modern event deck in the past four years.
They would market the Master series to fill the gaps in the modern challenge decks if they did that. Affinity for example could be a very reasonably priced challenger deck if they left out even just Mox Opals, Arcbound Ravager, and Inkmoth Nexus. Then make artifacts a subtheme of the master series and you have people who pick up the challenge deck more willing to draft or buy a masters series because the cards are able to slot into their constructed deck immediately.
Master series not only need to have high end staple such as Mox Opals, Arcbound Ravager, and Inkmoth Nexus. They also need to have some value common/uncommon (Steel Overseer, Vault Skirge, Cranial Plating, Ghirapur Aether Grid) to attract players.
The truth is, there is only a limited amount of cards worth of the reprint. The idea of creating Modern challenge decks or Modern event decks is trying to compete the "reprint resource" with Master series...
There is a good article for you to read, as a reference:
, and there is no 2nd Modern event deck in the past four years.
They would market the Master series to fill the gaps in the modern challenge decks if they did that. Affinity for example could be a very reasonably priced challenger deck if they left out even just Mox Opals, Arcbound Ravager, and Inkmoth Nexus. Then make artifacts a subtheme of the master series and you have people who pick up the challenge deck more willing to draft or buy a masters series because the cards are able to slot into their constructed deck immediately.
Master series not only need to have high end staple such as Mox Opals, Arcbound Ravager, and Inkmoth Nexus. They also need to have some value common/uncommon (Steel Overseer, Vault Skirge, Cranial Plating, Ghirapur Aether Grid) to attract players.
The truth is, there is only a limited amount of cards worth of the reprint. The idea of creating Modern challenge decks or Modern event decks is trying to compete the "reprint resource" with Master series...
There is a good article for you to read, as a reference:
That's an easy choice. Let's have the Modern Event decks andk kill the Masters Series for good.
Much better to pay for the Challenger / Event decks to get the cards ASAP instead of either going through the motions of a draft experience that you can have with the regular expansions anyway, or just pay for the Tree of Redemption / Chalice of the Void lottery (highly skewed towards the chaff) and having to chase the one who opened the rare you're looking for.
They could up the price of Modern Event decks to like $100 and include higher rare count like 2 Dark Confidants and 1 Lilianas of the Veil and other rares. That they cost more? Why WotC should care, better having $100 of the Magic player to their own pockets than $300 going to womeone else that's not them and then having said player skipping actual new product because they burned their money with the secondary market.
Mixed feelings with the article. Nice data to support that overall deck prices have been lowered and agree entirely with their mark of Modern decks ideally being twice the price of Standard ones. Dislike enourmously, however, their portrayal of Magic players being nothing but value calculators which would flock to the cheaper alternative no matter what, and their final proposal of "forget Modern, let's go everyone to Frontier", which pretty much make the whole discussion pointless.
The stores would be better off calling for a rebirth of the Extended format and having a new world order of Standard-Extended-Modern.
...and now even changing their phrasing so that they don't use he / she and just use the word "they" as of Return to Dominaria..
If you are going to even mention this as a thing, well, I have no need to discuss things further with you. "They" is a non-issue. A complete non-issue, that certain segments of society point to as the first sign of the End Times.
...and now even changing their phrasing so that they don't use he / she and just use the word "they" as of Return to Dominaria..
If you are going to even mention this as a thing, well, I have no need to discuss things further with you. "They" is a non-issue. A complete non-issue, that certain segments of society point to as the first sign of the End Times.
I thought you were more reasonable than that.
I want them to print things people are actually interested in playing and fixing their card quality issues. Not run around doing minor politically charged changes and creating problems with yet another vocal group that starts shouting in a megaphone on the internet. Is that reasonable enough for you?
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You think Maro, or the Dev team, has ANY wasted design cycles over the concept of 'they'?
You think Maro, or the Dev team, has ANY wasted cycles over the outsourced producer of cardboard?
You think Maro, or anyone at Wizards, should be beholden to ignorant people crying about 'they'?
EDIT: Literally THINK about this Colt. You do software, I do software, I refuse to accept that you actually think this is a real issue.
No, but being completely ignorant of the impact bad PR can have on the actual reception of what those designers create and work on does. Yes I do software, but that also requires working with people and understanding their problems and feelings about their situation. We don't do work in a bubble isolated from these things, and ignorance of these things is how even a good idea can go wrong, from miscommunication of the problem that is to be solved to not interpreting requirements.
Do you think that the designers intended to create a standard full of value creatures and removal that basically renders the tribal themes redundant thus far that people hate? Of course not, and I question the kind of information that they got that led them down their path, or the lack there of.
Also this is driving this way off topic. My point was that if they didn't create a bad relationship with their audience, they probably could get better information and make better sets, thus helping produce more playable cards long term than the kinds of sets we have been seeing. More playable cards can mean new decks and thus less pressure on established older cards. They shouldn't have to rely so much on a card that it needs to have a price tag so high it's practically a lottery card.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You think Maro, or the Dev team, has ANY wasted design cycles over the concept of 'they'?
You think Maro, or the Dev team, has ANY wasted cycles over the outsourced producer of cardboard?
You think Maro, or anyone at Wizards, should be beholden to ignorant people crying about 'they'?
EDIT: Literally THINK about this Colt. You do software, I do software, I refuse to accept that you actually think this is a real issue.
No, but being completely ignorant of the impact bad PR can have on the actual reception of what those designers create and work on does. Yes I do software, but that also requires working with people and understanding their problems and feelings about their situation. We don't do work in a bubble isolated from these things, and ignorance of these things is how even a good idea can go wrong, from miscommunication of the problem that is to be solved to not interpreting requirements.
.
Indeed, we do not work in a bubble, but you know what? Pissing off certain types of people, is not always wrong. If you chose one path, you keep the status quo, if you choose the other, well everyone gets to drink from the same fountain.
A box sold by WotC that contains 4ofs of fetchlands, shocklands, etc. in all of the color combinations sold at Walmart and Target.
Discuss
They instantly sell out, and if printed enough, the cards go down to a few bucks.
Wizards then doesnt have those to push a Standard or Masters set leading to 'Iconic Masters sucked'.
Given the number of complaints I saw over Vendilion Clique being in A25, reprint equity is absolutely a problem. When it was first printed in MMA it was one of the biggest chase cards in the set. When it was printed again in MM2 it was still a high-value card you were excited to open. Now, it's "only $30" and thus is apparently a waste of space because of that.
Right now there's a good backlog of old cards that have never been reprinted, but once they get a reprint they cease to be "exciting." Wasteland or Mana Drain or Imperial Recruiter coming back won't drum up the same excitement. Tarmogoyf has plummeted from where it was when the Masters sets began.
I suspect this is also the reason for upshifting Chalice of the Void and Ensnaring Bridge to mythic. It won't impact their price much, meaning they can be used in future Masters sets as chase cards. Sacrificing some sales now for the sake of selling more in the future.
agreed. those two could surely use a reprint, even for just a temporary drop in price.
hierarch is probably too good for standard, and the exalted keyword is just another limiting factor.
i doubt sunburst will ever show up again, so that takes EE off the table. though i dont think it would be too good in standard. requiring 2 colors and 4 mana to kill some 2 drops? yeah nobody would care about that.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Given the number of complaints I saw over Vendilion Clique being in A25, reprint equity is absolutely a problem. When it was first printed in MMA it was one of the biggest chase cards in the set. When it was printed again in MM2 it was still a high-value card you were excited to open. Now, it's "only $30" and thus is apparently a waste of space because of that.
Right now there's a good backlog of old cards that have never been reprinted, but once they get a reprint they cease to be "exciting." Wasteland or Mana Drain or Imperial Recruiter coming back won't drum up the same excitement. Tarmogoyf has plummeted from where it was when the Masters sets began.
I suspect this is also the reason for upshifting Chalice of the Void and Ensnaring Bridge to mythic. It won't impact their price much, meaning they can be used in future Masters sets as chase cards. Sacrificing some sales now for the sake of selling more in the future.
I don't think people are upset about it being reprinted exactly. nobody is ever going to be sad to pull it. the problem is that it really isn't scare or in dire need of a reprint. that's in keeping with everything else I have seen for the reactions to this set, people are just unhappy becaue cards like Clique are on their nth printing, but it's very difficult to find other cards. FoW would have been better in that spot, Crucible of Worlds, Engineered Explosives, a bunch of others. It's a perfectly good reprint, but the demand of something like Goyf isn't there, and there is nobody who can't make a deck for lack of Clique being available. Doubling Season, Urza lands, Colonnade, Heirarch, even TNN. even cards not as expensive would have been met with more approval than some of the choices. the thing people object to isn't the cards in the set, it's the cards not in the set.
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
The entire design of M25 was pretty off and it felt like they were intentionally avoiding modern cards in many cases, even though those cards are the ones that hold the price tags necessary to even justify the set. I'd dare say it's more like "Casual masters".
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Given the number of complaints I saw over Vendilion Clique being in A25, reprint equity is absolutely a problem. When it was first printed in MMA it was one of the biggest chase cards in the set. When it was printed again in MM2 it was still a high-value card you were excited to open. Now, it's "only $30" and thus is apparently a waste of space because of that.
Right now there's a good backlog of old cards that have never been reprinted, but once they get a reprint they cease to be "exciting." Wasteland or Mana Drain or Imperial Recruiter coming back won't drum up the same excitement. Tarmogoyf has plummeted from where it was when the Masters sets began.
I suspect this is also the reason for upshifting Chalice of the Void and Ensnaring Bridge to mythic. It won't impact their price much, meaning they can be used in future Masters sets as chase cards. Sacrificing some sales now for the sake of selling more in the future.
I don't think people are upset about it being reprinted exactly. nobody is ever going to be sad to pull it. the problem is that it really isn't scare or in dire need of a reprint. that's in keeping with everything else I have seen for the reactions to this set, people are just unhappy becaue cards like Clique are on their nth printing, but it's very difficult to find other cards. FoW would have been better in that spot, Crucible of Worlds, Engineered Explosives, a bunch of others. It's a perfectly good reprint, but the demand of something like Goyf isn't there, and there is nobody who can't make a deck for lack of Clique being available. Doubling Season, Urza lands, Colonnade, Heirarch, even TNN. even cards not as expensive would have been met with more approval than some of the choices. the thing people object to isn't the cards in the set, it's the cards not in the set.
Great point's, top to bottom. Its just the wrong stuff, and when you see that Tree was a late addition for 'reasons' it makes you wonder. Clique is a fine enough card, but its not an eye pop of a card.
Given the number of complaints I saw over Vendilion Clique being in A25, reprint equity is absolutely a problem. When it was first printed in MMA it was one of the biggest chase cards in the set. When it was printed again in MM2 it was still a high-value card you were excited to open. Now, it's "only $30" and thus is apparently a waste of space because of that.
Right now there's a good backlog of old cards that have never been reprinted, but once they get a reprint they cease to be "exciting." Wasteland or Mana Drain or Imperial Recruiter coming back won't drum up the same excitement. Tarmogoyf has plummeted from where it was when the Masters sets began.
I suspect this is also the reason for upshifting Chalice of the Void and Ensnaring Bridge to mythic. It won't impact their price much, meaning they can be used in future Masters sets as chase cards. Sacrificing some sales now for the sake of selling more in the future.
I don't think people are upset about it being reprinted exactly. nobody is ever going to be sad to pull it. the problem is that it really isn't scare or in dire need of a reprint. that's in keeping with everything else I have seen for the reactions to this set, people are just unhappy becaue cards like Clique are on their nth printing, but it's very difficult to find other cards. FoW would have been better in that spot, Crucible of Worlds, Engineered Explosives, a bunch of others. It's a perfectly good reprint, but the demand of something like Goyf isn't there, and there is nobody who can't make a deck for lack of Clique being available. Doubling Season, Urza lands, Colonnade, Heirarch, even TNN. even cards not as expensive would have been met with more approval than some of the choices. the thing people object to isn't the cards in the set, it's the cards not in the set.
Great point's, top to bottom. Its just the wrong stuff, and when you see that Tree was a late addition for 'reasons' it makes you wonder. Clique is a fine enough card, but its not an eye pop of a card.
They actually said the tree was thrown in last minute and if I recall the way it was worded, it is heavily implied that they had to take a card that was intended for the spot and use it in Iconic Masters. As for why they reprinted clique and not something else in the mythic slot that is a complete mystery. None of us really know what the reprint pipeline looks like until after it hits spoiler season so it's possible they are moving a lot of the reprints into the other sets that are coming out in the next year. Also they just dropped the biggest rules change they've made in a long time, which is making me suspicious of a few things.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Given the number of complaints I saw over Vendilion Clique being in A25, reprint equity is absolutely a problem. When it was first printed in MMA it was one of the biggest chase cards in the set. When it was printed again in MM2 it was still a high-value card you were excited to open. Now, it's "only $30" and thus is apparently a waste of space because of that.
Right now there's a good backlog of old cards that have never been reprinted, but once they get a reprint they cease to be "exciting." Wasteland or Mana Drain or Imperial Recruiter coming back won't drum up the same excitement. Tarmogoyf has plummeted from where it was when the Masters sets began.
I suspect this is also the reason for upshifting Chalice of the Void and Ensnaring Bridge to mythic. It won't impact their price much, meaning they can be used in future Masters sets as chase cards. Sacrificing some sales now for the sake of selling more in the future.
I don't think people are upset about it being reprinted exactly. nobody is ever going to be sad to pull it. the problem is that it really isn't scare or in dire need of a reprint. that's in keeping with everything else I have seen for the reactions to this set, people are just unhappy becaue cards like Clique are on their nth printing, but it's very difficult to find other cards. FoW would have been better in that spot, Crucible of Worlds, Engineered Explosives, a bunch of others. It's a perfectly good reprint, but the demand of something like Goyf isn't there, and there is nobody who can't make a deck for lack of Clique being available. Doubling Season, Urza lands, Colonnade, Heirarch, even TNN. even cards not as expensive would have been met with more approval than some of the choices. the thing people object to isn't the cards in the set, it's the cards not in the set.
Great point's, top to bottom. Its just the wrong stuff, and when you see that Tree was a late addition for 'reasons' it makes you wonder. Clique is a fine enough card, but its not an eye pop of a card.
They actually said the tree was thrown in last minute and if I recall the way it was worded, it is heavily implied that they had to take a card that was intended for the spot and use it in Iconic Masters. As for why they reprinted clique and not something else in the mythic slot that is a complete mystery. None of us really know what the reprint pipeline looks like until after it hits spoiler season so it's possible they are moving a lot of the reprints into the other sets that are coming out in the next year. Also they just dropped the biggest rules change they've made in a long time, which is making me suspicious of a few things.
yeah like that offhand comment about a "new way to play the game"
super sketchy
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I don't think people are upset about it being reprinted exactly. nobody is ever going to be sad to pull it. the problem is that it really isn't scare or in dire need of a reprint. that's in keeping with everything else I have seen for the reactions to this set, people are just unhappy becaue cards like Clique are on their nth printing, but it's very difficult to find other cards. FoW would have been better in that spot, Crucible of Worlds, Engineered Explosives, a bunch of others. It's a perfectly good reprint, but the demand of something like Goyf isn't there, and there is nobody who can't make a deck for lack of Clique being available. Doubling Season, Urza lands, Colonnade, Heirarch, even TNN. even cards not as expensive would have been met with more approval than some of the choices. the thing people object to isn't the cards in the set, it's the cards not in the set.
You've completely missed my point. Clique is "the wrong card," but the list of "wrong cards" is going to keep growing the more cards are reprinted.
60 Card 1v1 Commander? Something like that for this 'new way to play' as the new non-Standard format? I mean who buys the most product? Casuals. What format is huge with casual players? Commander?
My money is on the ‘new way to play’ being limited (draft and sealed) commander. The hurdle to that before was an inability to guarantee a legendary or a selection of legendaries in a limited cardpool. Dominaria guarantees a legendary creature in every pack, so now they can finally guarantee a limited environment where every player always has commander options.
My money is on the ‘new way to play’ being limited (draft and sealed) commander. The hurdle to that before was an inability to guarantee a legendary or a selection of legendaries in a limited cardpool. Dominaria guarantees a legendary creature in every pack, so now they can finally guarantee a limited environment where every player always has commander options.
They could have guaranteed it before. Transform cards took up a specific spot in a pack so they could have just as easily done that.
Nooooooo, they got Isamaru, Hound of Konda! That card holds a special place in my heart as a dog owner because it looks just like one of the ones my family had from my childhood.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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Karn liberated, is the big one that was 30 USD at the time. Later examples that had their price jump were lotv and snap. People here don't seem to understand what WoTC wants in regards to making modern chase cards. They don't want a few cards being insanely pricey, they want a lot of cards to carry decent demand. That is part of the reason they are having mtg goldfish obscure data.
Also worst counter examples ever. I dont even know why I'm bothering.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/wizards-data-insanity
What makes a chase card a chase card in a competitive format? For that matter, what is a chase card?
The problem with Liliana of the Veil or Karn Liberated is pretty strait forward: They are chase cards gone wrong. No card should be at that price in this game with the kind of print run numbers the sets have, but the reason they ended up that way is a lack of alternative options and the lack of proper price maintenance by the company. I mean I could pick just about any card including Arcbound Ravager as it is over priced as well, though Inkmoth Nexus really doesn't fall into this because it isn't a chase card as much as a side grade option at this point unless infect somehow comes back, and that deck the chase card is more Noble Hierarch.
Ugh, I'm so tired of these guys spending all their time chasing after whatever moral high ground or political position they seem to be going after, investigating youtubers, and now even changing their phrasing so that they don't use he / she and just use the word "they" as of Return to Dominaria (thanks spoiler article, also yay we got buy a box promos that potentially are cards not in the set itself that are standard legal. Hope no one needs a 4 of those or that the leaked article is wrong...). Just print cards people want whether they are new cards or old cards. Is that a problem? For crying out loud they can't even seem to do that right now.
These cards are expensive because the wizards of today is losing to the wizards of yester year and the company seems to be so worried about this they have had to piecemeal out the parts so they keep the thing going as long as they can. Hour of Devastation is now out of print one year early because there's literally no demand for it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
That's an easy choice. Let's have the Modern Event decks andk kill the Masters Series for good.
Much better to pay for the Challenger / Event decks to get the cards ASAP instead of either going through the motions of a draft experience that you can have with the regular expansions anyway, or just pay for the Tree of Redemption / Chalice of the Void lottery (highly skewed towards the chaff) and having to chase the one who opened the rare you're looking for.
They could up the price of Modern Event decks to like $100 and include higher rare count like 2 Dark Confidants and 1 Lilianas of the Veil and other rares. That they cost more? Why WotC should care, better having $100 of the Magic player to their own pockets than $300 going to womeone else that's not them and then having said player skipping actual new product because they burned their money with the secondary market.
Mixed feelings with the article. Nice data to support that overall deck prices have been lowered and agree entirely with their mark of Modern decks ideally being twice the price of Standard ones. Dislike enourmously, however, their portrayal of Magic players being nothing but value calculators which would flock to the cheaper alternative no matter what, and their final proposal of "forget Modern, let's go everyone to Frontier", which pretty much make the whole discussion pointless.
The stores would be better off calling for a rebirth of the Extended format and having a new world order of Standard-Extended-Modern.
If you are going to even mention this as a thing, well, I have no need to discuss things further with you. "They" is a non-issue. A complete non-issue, that certain segments of society point to as the first sign of the End Times.
I thought you were more reasonable than that.
Spirits
I want them to print things people are actually interested in playing and fixing their card quality issues. Not run around doing minor politically charged changes and creating problems with yet another vocal group that starts shouting in a megaphone on the internet. Is that reasonable enough for you?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You think Maro, or the Dev team, has ANY wasted cycles over the outsourced producer of cardboard?
You think Maro, or anyone at Wizards, should be beholden to ignorant people crying about 'they'?
EDIT: Literally THINK about this Colt. You do software, I do software, I refuse to accept that you actually think this is a real issue.
Spirits
No, but being completely ignorant of the impact bad PR can have on the actual reception of what those designers create and work on does. Yes I do software, but that also requires working with people and understanding their problems and feelings about their situation. We don't do work in a bubble isolated from these things, and ignorance of these things is how even a good idea can go wrong, from miscommunication of the problem that is to be solved to not interpreting requirements.
Do you think that the designers intended to create a standard full of value creatures and removal that basically renders the tribal themes redundant thus far that people hate? Of course not, and I question the kind of information that they got that led them down their path, or the lack there of.
Also this is driving this way off topic. My point was that if they didn't create a bad relationship with their audience, they probably could get better information and make better sets, thus helping produce more playable cards long term than the kinds of sets we have been seeing. More playable cards can mean new decks and thus less pressure on established older cards. They shouldn't have to rely so much on a card that it needs to have a price tag so high it's practically a lottery card.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Discuss
Indeed, we do not work in a bubble, but you know what? Pissing off certain types of people, is not always wrong. If you chose one path, you keep the status quo, if you choose the other, well everyone gets to drink from the same fountain.
They instantly sell out, and if printed enough, the cards go down to a few bucks.
Wizards then doesnt have those to push a Standard or Masters set leading to 'Iconic Masters sucked'.
Spirits
They instantly sell out, and if printed enough, the cards go down to a few bucks.
Wizards then doesnt have those to push a Standard or Masters set leading to 'Iconic Masters sucked'.[/quote]
A masters set full of literally not a single thing but different lands printed over the history of Magic.
Discuss
Spirits
Right now there's a good backlog of old cards that have never been reprinted, but once they get a reprint they cease to be "exciting." Wasteland or Mana Drain or Imperial Recruiter coming back won't drum up the same excitement. Tarmogoyf has plummeted from where it was when the Masters sets began.
I suspect this is also the reason for upshifting Chalice of the Void and Ensnaring Bridge to mythic. It won't impact their price much, meaning they can be used in future Masters sets as chase cards. Sacrificing some sales now for the sake of selling more in the future.
agreed. those two could surely use a reprint, even for just a temporary drop in price.
hierarch is probably too good for standard, and the exalted keyword is just another limiting factor.
i doubt sunburst will ever show up again, so that takes EE off the table. though i dont think it would be too good in standard. requiring 2 colors and 4 mana to kill some 2 drops? yeah nobody would care about that.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I don't think people are upset about it being reprinted exactly. nobody is ever going to be sad to pull it. the problem is that it really isn't scare or in dire need of a reprint. that's in keeping with everything else I have seen for the reactions to this set, people are just unhappy becaue cards like Clique are on their nth printing, but it's very difficult to find other cards. FoW would have been better in that spot, Crucible of Worlds, Engineered Explosives, a bunch of others. It's a perfectly good reprint, but the demand of something like Goyf isn't there, and there is nobody who can't make a deck for lack of Clique being available. Doubling Season, Urza lands, Colonnade, Heirarch, even TNN. even cards not as expensive would have been met with more approval than some of the choices. the thing people object to isn't the cards in the set, it's the cards not in the set.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Great point's, top to bottom. Its just the wrong stuff, and when you see that Tree was a late addition for 'reasons' it makes you wonder. Clique is a fine enough card, but its not an eye pop of a card.
Spirits
They actually said the tree was thrown in last minute and if I recall the way it was worded, it is heavily implied that they had to take a card that was intended for the spot and use it in Iconic Masters. As for why they reprinted clique and not something else in the mythic slot that is a complete mystery. None of us really know what the reprint pipeline looks like until after it hits spoiler season so it's possible they are moving a lot of the reprints into the other sets that are coming out in the next year. Also they just dropped the biggest rules change they've made in a long time, which is making me suspicious of a few things.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
yeah like that offhand comment about a "new way to play the game"
super sketchy
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)You've completely missed my point. Clique is "the wrong card," but the list of "wrong cards" is going to keep growing the more cards are reprinted.
Makes sense to me.
Spirits
They could have guaranteed it before. Transform cards took up a specific spot in a pack so they could have just as easily done that.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!