im not seeing how there was no choice. a player who actively foregoes buying raging ravines because of some product in the future is choosing to accept the risk and consequences of either outcome.
its like waiting to see if a deck does well before deciding to build it, but then bemoaning the increased cost if it does.
unless im misunderstanding something
Well, the problem is a deck does well on the pro-tour, Wizards of the Coast goes "good job!" Then prints the next garbage set and brings out their jolly hype train to make people waste their money. There is this thing called "using your pro-tour hype to sell cards people want" that has eluded this company for the entire time I've come back to the damn game. Instead, they see price spike, they go run into the back room to cobble together another draft set (because everything is draft!) and then cart the monstrosity out way too late to do anything.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
WOTC won't admit it, but they actually have tremendous influence over price. To just toss one's hands up and say "it's supply and demand, nothing you can do" completely ignores that WOTC's print runs are what place the supply curve. A second print run of a set of significant numbers would shift the supply curve right, doing nothing to demand but lowering the price. A S&D chart isn't set in stone, plenty of ways to manipulate it for a desired effect.
Talking about "many reprints" and "card prices collapsing" is nothing but made up drama with no reasl basis, attemptimg to induce FUD about the possibility of keeping prices down (at the levels when the cards where STandard legal) with a effective reprint policy. Take Tarmogoyr: it's the most egregious example with three (or THREE!!! as doomsayers would like) reprints, yet its price still sits at $90 - 110. Or Liliana of the Veil, reprinted one time which means it has been REPRINTED!! Now as $110, I remember it being $70 before the reprint. Total loss of value right there unless you planned on playing her...
1) Tarmogoyf was well above $200 for a long time before MM15's reprint began it's slow decend. It dropped steadily for the next two years and was around $120 when reprinted again in MM17. It continued to fall for the next year, bottoming out around $70, before coming back up after BBE was unbanned.
2) For nearly all of 2016, Liliana of the Veil was over $100, spending most time around $110. Its reprint in MM17 dropped prices of the original to about $80 and MM17 prices bottomed in the mid $60s before climbing and stabilizing around that same ~$80. Her price did not raise again until BBE was unbanned.
Seems like the price rising has less to do with lack of reprint and everything to do with unbanning BBE...
The reprints did exactly what they intended... slowly and gradually reduce prices without crashing.
The lowest I've seen goyf is around 55$ at SCG, because I check out their site often. Some people claim to have seen lower prices at TCGplayer, but I personally did not see.. because my tcg account search parameters only lists stores that can ship to my country. Yesterday, I could have sworn goyf played versions are around 68$... but today they are now 72$ for played.. I guess SCG already adjusted their prices. Not reprinting the goyf at Iconic Masters and Masters 25.. and then reprinting BBE in M25.. a card that encourages the use of goyf, it looks like WoTC intentionally wants the price of goyf to rise again in the secondary market. Anyway, just my opinion.
____________
On something else.. I ordered some path to exile today... because needed some, and noticed that they have risen by at least 50-75 cents. So my instincts tell, "just order now and get it over with" since the PTE's might spike a little more in the next days.
Path to exile is an easy reprint target for supplementary products, but in terms of just grabbing a play set, an increase in 50 cents shouldn't break the bank.
I'm more worried about the window of opportunity with masters 25. I don't think this set is going to sell well post release due to all the casual and edh cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Theoretically? There's no concrete proof it won't be in Dominaria or Core or whatever this fall's set brings, though many will argue that some internal decision has been made to never allow fetches in Standard again. It could be in Battlebond - IMHO unlikely but you won't find proof to the contrary anytime soon.
Most likely? A long way off. But theoretically? This year isn't theoretically-impossible, albeit unlikely.
yeah i think its hard to tell how m25 will ultimately end up doing. on the surface i would say poorly, however you gotta remember that by in large the community 'response' that we see is comprised of a vocal minority.
as for my earlier comment, i cant say that i can muster much sympathy for those who monitor the card market or format closely and then get burnt for making a bad prediction. like those who wait expecting a reprint but it doesnt happen. disappointment seems an appropriate response, indignant outrage less so.
to me the victims are more the people who are unaware of whats going on and just sorta get caught up in these market fluctuations. like someone with a burgeoning interest in a deck looking at the cost which ends up a little out of their budget. unbeknownst to them that the deck price has increased by 25% in the last few months because of spoilers and speculators.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Community response on Masters products is probably higher because casuals don't buy reprint packs. I know when I was a kid, I could barely afford normal packs. On top of that, I'm not just going to blindly buy a $10 pack without asking questions, so I'll go online and see cards and figure out prices. So I'd say A25 is largely going to go the way online is suggesting.
to me the victims are more the people who are unaware of whats going on and just sorta get caught up in these market fluctuations. like someone with a burgeoning interest in a deck looking at the cost which ends up a little out of their budget. unbeknownst to them that the deck price has increased by 25% in the last few months because of spoilers and speculators.
Labeling those players as victims is a bit dramatic, no? Whether you consider it an investment or not, the average Modern deck costs a few hundred dollars and it's no secret that market prices can dramatically change overnight. Sites like MTGstocks, Price, MetaMox, Goldfish, etc are all free resources that players can use to monitor the market; considering the current state of the game, it's rather careless for one not to take advantage of these tools in order to protect their investment. I'm currently in my second year of med school and I'm generally lucky to find the time for even one FNM a month, but taking 5 minutes a day or every two days to review market data is rather effortless and has allowed me to preserve the value of my collection despite being unable to play on a regular basis.
to me the victims are more the people who are unaware of whats going on and just sorta get caught up in these market fluctuations. like someone with a burgeoning interest in a deck looking at the cost which ends up a little out of their budget. unbeknownst to them that the deck price has increased by 25% in the last few months because of spoilers and speculators.
Labeling those players as victims is a bit dramatic, no? Whether you consider it an investment or not, the average Modern deck costs a few hundred dollars and it's no secret that market prices can dramatically change overnight. Sites like MTGstocks, Price, MetaMox, Goldfish, etc are all free resources that players can use to monitor the market; considering the current state of the game, it's rather careless for one not to take advantage of these tools in order to protect their investment. I'm currently in my second year of med school and I'm generally lucky to find the time for even one FNM a month, but taking 5 minutes a day or every two days to review market data is rather effortless and has allowed me to preserve the value of my collection despite being unable to play on a regular basis.
yeah ill concede the point. they arent really victims, and ignorance isnt really the best excuse.
mostly i was trying to express that there are those who decide to try to play the market, and it doesn't always work out. there are also those who are just along for the ride, interacting with the market when their interest is peaked or if they are in a position to play more. sometimes prices are in their favor, and sometimes not.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
to me the victims are more the people who are unaware of whats going on and just sorta get caught up in these market fluctuations. like someone with a burgeoning interest in a deck looking at the cost which ends up a little out of their budget. unbeknownst to them that the deck price has increased by 25% in the last few months because of spoilers and speculators.
Labeling those players as victims is a bit dramatic, no? Whether you consider it an investment or not, the average Modern deck costs a few hundred dollars and it's no secret that market prices can dramatically change overnight. Sites like MTGstocks, Price, MetaMox, Goldfish, etc are all free resources that players can use to monitor the market; considering the current state of the game, it's rather careless for one not to take advantage of these tools in order to protect their investment. I'm currently in my second year of med school and I'm generally lucky to find the time for even one FNM a month, but taking 5 minutes a day or every two days to review market data is rather effortless and has allowed me to preserve the value of my collection despite being unable to play on a regular basis.
yeah ill concede the point. they arent really victims, and ignorance isnt really the best excuse.
mostly i was trying to express that there are those who decide to try to play the market, and it doesn't always work out. there are also those who are just along for the ride, interacting with the market when their interest is peaked or if they are in a position to play more. sometimes prices are in their favor, and sometimes not.
Absolutely. If someone makes the decision to sink a significant amount of money into market speculation and ends up crapping out,that's all on them. They knowingly took the risk and are ultimately responsible for the outcome, good or bad.
to me the victims are more the people who are unaware of whats going on and just sorta get caught up in these market fluctuations. like someone with a burgeoning interest in a deck looking at the cost which ends up a little out of their budget. unbeknownst to them that the deck price has increased by 25% in the last few months because of spoilers and speculators.
Labeling those players as victims is a bit dramatic, no? Whether you consider it an investment or not, the average Modern deck costs a few hundred dollars and it's no secret that market prices can dramatically change overnight. Sites like MTGstocks, Price, MetaMox, Goldfish, etc are all free resources that players can use to monitor the market; considering the current state of the game, it's rather careless for one not to take advantage of these tools in order to protect their investment. I'm currently in my second year of med school and I'm generally lucky to find the time for even one FNM a month, but taking 5 minutes a day or every two days to review market data is rather effortless and has allowed me to preserve the value of my collection despite being unable to play on a regular basis.
yeah ill concede the point. they arent really victims, and ignorance isnt really the best excuse.
mostly i was trying to express that there are those who decide to try to play the market, and it doesn't always work out. there are also those who are just along for the ride, interacting with the market when their interest is peaked or if they are in a position to play more. sometimes prices are in their favor, and sometimes not.
Absolutely. If someone makes the decision to sink a significant amount of money into market speculation and ends up crapping out,that's all on them. They knowingly took the risk and are ultimately responsible for the outcome, good or bad.
Couldn't that logic also apply to those who complain that reprints hurt their collection values? They know a card could be reprinted, and WOTC perhaps shouldn't be beholden to the inventories of vendors and investors?
to me the victims are more the people who are unaware of whats going on and just sorta get caught up in these market fluctuations. like someone with a burgeoning interest in a deck looking at the cost which ends up a little out of their budget. unbeknownst to them that the deck price has increased by 25% in the last few months because of spoilers and speculators.
Labeling those players as victims is a bit dramatic, no? Whether you consider it an investment or not, the average Modern deck costs a few hundred dollars and it's no secret that market prices can dramatically change overnight. Sites like MTGstocks, Price, MetaMox, Goldfish, etc are all free resources that players can use to monitor the market; considering the current state of the game, it's rather careless for one not to take advantage of these tools in order to protect their investment. I'm currently in my second year of med school and I'm generally lucky to find the time for even one FNM a month, but taking 5 minutes a day or every two days to review market data is rather effortless and has allowed me to preserve the value of my collection despite being unable to play on a regular basis.
yeah ill concede the point. they arent really victims, and ignorance isnt really the best excuse.
mostly i was trying to express that there are those who decide to try to play the market, and it doesn't always work out. there are also those who are just along for the ride, interacting with the market when their interest is peaked or if they are in a position to play more. sometimes prices are in their favor, and sometimes not.
Absolutely. If someone makes the decision to sink a significant amount of money into market speculation and ends up crapping out,that's all on them. They knowingly took the risk and are ultimately responsible for the outcome, good or bad.
Couldn't that logic also apply to those who complain that reprints hurt their collection values? They know a card could be reprinted, and WOTC perhaps shouldn't be beholden to the inventories of vendors and investors?
In regards to someone complaining about how their personal collection took a hit, absolutely. However, I'd argue that it doesn't necessarily apply to WotC's reprint policy in general and how it affects the market as a whole. Since anything Modern-playable is fair game and bound to be reprinted sooner or later, the best thing one can do IMO is staying informed and then just roll with the punches. Hasbro/WotC shouldn't be beholden to the will of investors/large scale vendors, but it's in the best interest of the game to methodically select reprints and not dilute the entire market to the point where the value of collections across the board are significantly affected. The faith players have in their collections retaining some value over an extended period of time is what allows WotC to sell Masters boosters at $10 a pop. It's inevitable that there will be players whose collections are more disproportionally affected by reprints than others, but maintaining the overall illusion that these pieces of cardboard have some actual value is what keeps the machine operating.
The primary issue WoTC has had is just not printing cards in a way that brings down the prices effectively for people playing the format. The masters series is more so for the company to make money on the higher secondary market prices of the cards and any price drops that do happen on certain cards are more like temporary sales, especially when it's a mythic. It's probably time to have a set that brings the prices down in modern, but I doubt wizards will ever make it.
I know I'm definitely saying something that people will find controversial, but Chronicles was probably the best thing to happen to Magic the Gathering (and the other things that happened in reaction to it the worst things). If that set was never printed it's pretty likely no one would be here today talking about MtG. Before that set was printed, all sets were done by X number of cards and that was it, so it made getting packs of a new set basically a game of who could rush to the store first before the packs were gone. I remember that Legends barely had time to exist on store shelves and it was easier to find Antiquities and The Dark at the time, which was still a shot in the literal dark if one could even find a pack of those.
When Chronicles came out, it was like a miracle: people could finally get a hold of a lot of the cards that were in those past limited run sets. The game suddenly got way more affordable and I could finally get a hold of cards like Hell's Caretaker and Revelation, etc. Then the collectors went nuts and Wizards created the reserved list.
Right now there does need to be a Chronicles for Modern so that WoTC can go back to dealing with standard again and leave the 100% reprint sets off the table for a while. Not saying this has to take the form of a booster box, but collector tins and other options can be used to not over print the socks off of lower demand cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Yeah I agree with Colt. Jaban I get what you are saying, but for instance you say that if the market is flooded WOTC can't sell the next set of $10 boosters. Okay...maybe the best move is to just not sell a $10 booster. I just find it hard to believe that we are in equilibrium for supply and demand. I think they could produce more, lower the price, and still make tons of ca$h money bro.
There is literally zero need for them to create a 'Chronicles' set, crater the prices of the Modern staples, alienate ton's of people, piss of even more, and 'destroy' the secondary market (and those shops that depend on it, both on and off line) just so they can 'go back to dealing with Standard'.
Its not like they are putting R&D capital into these Masters sets.
I say that as someone who just got their Bonus for the year, and is looking to buy 1 more Modern deck to go with my UWR Control, and I'm not pleased with some of the prices for relatively recent cards.
There is literally zero need for them to create a 'Chronicles' set, crater the prices of the Modern staples, alienate ton's of people, piss of even more, and 'destroy' the secondary market (and those shops that depend on it, both on and off line) just so they can 'go back to dealing with Standard'.
Its not like they are putting R&D capital into these Masters sets.
I say that as someone who just got their Bonus for the year, and is looking to buy 1 more Modern deck to go with my UWR Control, and I'm not pleased with some of the prices for relatively recent cards.
Couldn't agree more. As for Colt - those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
They’ve already done some of that in Conspiracy though, and I’ll bet they’ll do it again in Battlebond. Conspiracy sets were normal priced boosters without print-run-shorting, and draft focused sets, that included a great many reprints, even including modern staples like Inquisution of Kozilek and Serum Visions as well as eternal darlings like Berserk and Brainstorm. And yet magic survived.
They’ve already done some of that in Conspiracy though, and I’ll bet they’ll do it again in Battlebond. Conspiracy sets were normal priced boosters without print-run-shorting, and draft focused sets, that included a great many reprints, even including modern staples like Inquisution of Kozilek and Serum Visions as well as eternal darlings like Berserk and Brainstorm. And yet magic survived.
If you can't understand the difference between Chronicles and Conspiracy in terms of the cards they reprinted and the sheer levels to which it was tanked, I cannot help you.
Needless to say I disagree with reprinting cards into the ground and ruining the value of cards.
This is straying into a reserve list discussion and is off topic for this thread. I'll drop it and get back to the topic at hand -
I am very excited to pick up some chalices as they are the last cards I need for eldrazi. Anyone have an idea where they will bottom out in price? $40?
There is literally zero need for them to create a 'Chronicles' set, crater the prices of the Modern staples, alienate ton's of people, piss of even more, and 'destroy' the secondary market (and those shops that depend on it, both on and off line) just so they can 'go back to dealing with Standard'.
Its not like they are putting R&D capital into these Masters sets.
I say that as someone who just got their Bonus for the year, and is looking to buy 1 more Modern deck to go with my UWR Control, and I'm not pleased with some of the prices for relatively recent cards.
Amen, brother. Something along the lines of a "new Chronicles" would literally destroy the secondary market along with consumer confidence. Sure, one could probably build a $100 T1 deck if a massive amount of staples entered circulation, but they'd be hard-pressed to find opponents as players fire-sale their collections in order to salvage any remaining value and LGS locations go under in a mass exodus.
They’ve already done some of that in Conspiracy though, and I’ll bet they’ll do it again in Battlebond. Conspiracy sets were normal priced boosters without print-run-shorting, and draft focused sets, that included a great many reprints, even including modern staples like Inquisution of Kozilek and Serum Visions as well as eternal darlings like Berserk and Brainstorm. And yet magic survived.
If you can't understand the difference between Chronicles and Conspiracy in terms of the cards they reprinted and the sheer levels to which it was tanked, I cannot help you.
I was around then. Chronicles hardly reprinted anything of tournament relevance, with a select few exceptions (City of Brass, Blood Moon, Ernham Djinn, some sparing use of Concordant Crossroads). Mainly what Chronicles reprinted and that collectors got up in arms about were Timmy-wow-factor garbage - the Elder Dragon Legends and other legends like Dakkon and Solkanar and Nebuchadnezzar that were just like the Imperial Recruiter of today - valuable only because of low circulation rather than actual demand or utility. Chronicles very much didn't flood the market with tournament-level staples. All those Arabian/Antiquities/Legends lands (the good ones!), Maze of Ith, Mana Drain, Juzam Djinn, were all left out of the reprints.
I think Wizards could to get a little creative here. Masters sets are wildly popular when done right. But we are operating at 2 levels here.
If you want a card, you have 2 options. You can either get the regular printing, or you can get the foil. You are pretty much limited to those. Now there are a few premium versions available, like Masterpieces and Judge foils, and to a lesser extent, FNM foils.
Let's look at the sportscard industry. If I want a Mike Trout, Tom Brady or Lebron James card, I have literally dozens of choices. I can go the ultra budget route and buy one (or 100) at 50 cents to a dollar each. Or I can go extremely high end and get some combination of foil refractor with an autograph and a piece of bat or ball or jersey and is numbered. I'll pay anywhere from $20 to $300 or $400 or even more.
While I despise many of the gimmicks sportscards use, I think Wizards can use some of those tactics. Having a base set that we all know, $4 a pack. And then a higher end level that perhaps includes refractors, numbered cards, autographed cards, alternate art, and so on. The sky is the limit for what they can charge there, they'd have to explore that, Baseball cards have reached as high as $100 per pack! It may even be more, I've not paid attention the past 10 years.
I've sat and watched (amused, and more than a little disgusted and sick to my stomach) as men have opened $10,000 worth of baseball and football (NFL) cards in one sitting. That represents fully half of my annual income.
I think Magic could do the same. Maybe not to that level, but it would be fun to have a few chase cards in standard sets. Autographed Scarab God, anyone? And in $10 pack sets, a foil per pack and chase cards like Search for Azcanta with artist alters numbered to 100, or 50, or even 10? Signed Artist Proofs numbered 1/1? Die cut Tarmogoyf?
Foils have been tremendously popular, and there have been a lot of people who foil their decks in all formats with the absolutely most expensive cards available. I think they are missing out on some easy sales by not catering to that crowd.
I know many would hate it, but having magic packs at 2 or 3 price points might produce amazing results.
It allows those of us who buy the higher end speculative cards to do so while leaving prices of regular cards stable for those who just want to play. It gives design room outside of gameplay, and makes speculation in standard harder. It gives more options for eternal players and Modern players to drop money on product that Wizards directly profits from.
Well, the problem is a deck does well on the pro-tour, Wizards of the Coast goes "good job!" Then prints the next garbage set and brings out their jolly hype train to make people waste their money. There is this thing called "using your pro-tour hype to sell cards people want" that has eluded this company for the entire time I've come back to the damn game. Instead, they see price spike, they go run into the back room to cobble together another draft set (because everything is draft!) and then cart the monstrosity out way too late to do anything.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The lowest I've seen goyf is around 55$ at SCG, because I check out their site often. Some people claim to have seen lower prices at TCGplayer, but I personally did not see.. because my tcg account search parameters only lists stores that can ship to my country. Yesterday, I could have sworn goyf played versions are around 68$... but today they are now 72$ for played.. I guess SCG already adjusted their prices. Not reprinting the goyf at Iconic Masters and Masters 25.. and then reprinting BBE in M25.. a card that encourages the use of goyf, it looks like WoTC intentionally wants the price of goyf to rise again in the secondary market. Anyway, just my opinion.
____________
On something else.. I ordered some path to exile today... because needed some, and noticed that they have risen by at least 50-75 cents. So my instincts tell, "just order now and get it over with" since the PTE's might spike a little more in the next days.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I'm more worried about the window of opportunity with masters 25. I don't think this set is going to sell well post release due to all the casual and edh cards.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Most likely? A long way off. But theoretically? This year isn't theoretically-impossible, albeit unlikely.
as for my earlier comment, i cant say that i can muster much sympathy for those who monitor the card market or format closely and then get burnt for making a bad prediction. like those who wait expecting a reprint but it doesnt happen. disappointment seems an appropriate response, indignant outrage less so.
to me the victims are more the people who are unaware of whats going on and just sorta get caught up in these market fluctuations. like someone with a burgeoning interest in a deck looking at the cost which ends up a little out of their budget. unbeknownst to them that the deck price has increased by 25% in the last few months because of spoilers and speculators.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Labeling those players as victims is a bit dramatic, no? Whether you consider it an investment or not, the average Modern deck costs a few hundred dollars and it's no secret that market prices can dramatically change overnight. Sites like MTGstocks, Price, MetaMox, Goldfish, etc are all free resources that players can use to monitor the market; considering the current state of the game, it's rather careless for one not to take advantage of these tools in order to protect their investment. I'm currently in my second year of med school and I'm generally lucky to find the time for even one FNM a month, but taking 5 minutes a day or every two days to review market data is rather effortless and has allowed me to preserve the value of my collection despite being unable to play on a regular basis.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
even still reactions on various outlets like social media, blogs, and unofficial news outlets arent always indicative of whats actually going on.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Kaladesh Inventions:Foil/Cloudstone Curio#paper
yeah ill concede the point. they arent really victims, and ignorance isnt really the best excuse.
mostly i was trying to express that there are those who decide to try to play the market, and it doesn't always work out. there are also those who are just along for the ride, interacting with the market when their interest is peaked or if they are in a position to play more. sometimes prices are in their favor, and sometimes not.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Absolutely. If someone makes the decision to sink a significant amount of money into market speculation and ends up crapping out,that's all on them. They knowingly took the risk and are ultimately responsible for the outcome, good or bad.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Couldn't that logic also apply to those who complain that reprints hurt their collection values? They know a card could be reprinted, and WOTC perhaps shouldn't be beholden to the inventories of vendors and investors?
In regards to someone complaining about how their personal collection took a hit, absolutely. However, I'd argue that it doesn't necessarily apply to WotC's reprint policy in general and how it affects the market as a whole. Since anything Modern-playable is fair game and bound to be reprinted sooner or later, the best thing one can do IMO is staying informed and then just roll with the punches. Hasbro/WotC shouldn't be beholden to the will of investors/large scale vendors, but it's in the best interest of the game to methodically select reprints and not dilute the entire market to the point where the value of collections across the board are significantly affected. The faith players have in their collections retaining some value over an extended period of time is what allows WotC to sell Masters boosters at $10 a pop. It's inevitable that there will be players whose collections are more disproportionally affected by reprints than others, but maintaining the overall illusion that these pieces of cardboard have some actual value is what keeps the machine operating.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I know I'm definitely saying something that people will find controversial, but Chronicles was probably the best thing to happen to Magic the Gathering (and the other things that happened in reaction to it the worst things). If that set was never printed it's pretty likely no one would be here today talking about MtG. Before that set was printed, all sets were done by X number of cards and that was it, so it made getting packs of a new set basically a game of who could rush to the store first before the packs were gone. I remember that Legends barely had time to exist on store shelves and it was easier to find Antiquities and The Dark at the time, which was still a shot in the literal dark if one could even find a pack of those.
When Chronicles came out, it was like a miracle: people could finally get a hold of a lot of the cards that were in those past limited run sets. The game suddenly got way more affordable and I could finally get a hold of cards like Hell's Caretaker and Revelation, etc. Then the collectors went nuts and Wizards created the reserved list.
Right now there does need to be a Chronicles for Modern so that WoTC can go back to dealing with standard again and leave the 100% reprint sets off the table for a while. Not saying this has to take the form of a booster box, but collector tins and other options can be used to not over print the socks off of lower demand cards.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Its not like they are putting R&D capital into these Masters sets.
I say that as someone who just got their Bonus for the year, and is looking to buy 1 more Modern deck to go with my UWR Control, and I'm not pleased with some of the prices for relatively recent cards.
Spirits
Couldn't agree more. As for Colt - those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
If so, sure whatever, they all sub 3 bucks by now no?
Spirits
If you can't understand the difference between Chronicles and Conspiracy in terms of the cards they reprinted and the sheer levels to which it was tanked, I cannot help you.
Needless to say I disagree with reprinting cards into the ground and ruining the value of cards.
This is straying into a reserve list discussion and is off topic for this thread. I'll drop it and get back to the topic at hand -
I am very excited to pick up some chalices as they are the last cards I need for eldrazi. Anyone have an idea where they will bottom out in price? $40?
Amen, brother. Something along the lines of a "new Chronicles" would literally destroy the secondary market along with consumer confidence. Sure, one could probably build a $100 T1 deck if a massive amount of staples entered circulation, but they'd be hard-pressed to find opponents as players fire-sale their collections in order to salvage any remaining value and LGS locations go under in a mass exodus.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I was around then. Chronicles hardly reprinted anything of tournament relevance, with a select few exceptions (City of Brass, Blood Moon, Ernham Djinn, some sparing use of Concordant Crossroads). Mainly what Chronicles reprinted and that collectors got up in arms about were Timmy-wow-factor garbage - the Elder Dragon Legends and other legends like Dakkon and Solkanar and Nebuchadnezzar that were just like the Imperial Recruiter of today - valuable only because of low circulation rather than actual demand or utility. Chronicles very much didn't flood the market with tournament-level staples. All those Arabian/Antiquities/Legends lands (the good ones!), Maze of Ith, Mana Drain, Juzam Djinn, were all left out of the reprints.
If you want a card, you have 2 options. You can either get the regular printing, or you can get the foil. You are pretty much limited to those. Now there are a few premium versions available, like Masterpieces and Judge foils, and to a lesser extent, FNM foils.
Let's look at the sportscard industry. If I want a Mike Trout, Tom Brady or Lebron James card, I have literally dozens of choices. I can go the ultra budget route and buy one (or 100) at 50 cents to a dollar each. Or I can go extremely high end and get some combination of foil refractor with an autograph and a piece of bat or ball or jersey and is numbered. I'll pay anywhere from $20 to $300 or $400 or even more.
While I despise many of the gimmicks sportscards use, I think Wizards can use some of those tactics. Having a base set that we all know, $4 a pack. And then a higher end level that perhaps includes refractors, numbered cards, autographed cards, alternate art, and so on. The sky is the limit for what they can charge there, they'd have to explore that, Baseball cards have reached as high as $100 per pack! It may even be more, I've not paid attention the past 10 years.
I've sat and watched (amused, and more than a little disgusted and sick to my stomach) as men have opened $10,000 worth of baseball and football (NFL) cards in one sitting. That represents fully half of my annual income.
I think Magic could do the same. Maybe not to that level, but it would be fun to have a few chase cards in standard sets. Autographed Scarab God, anyone? And in $10 pack sets, a foil per pack and chase cards like Search for Azcanta with artist alters numbered to 100, or 50, or even 10? Signed Artist Proofs numbered 1/1? Die cut Tarmogoyf?
Foils have been tremendously popular, and there have been a lot of people who foil their decks in all formats with the absolutely most expensive cards available. I think they are missing out on some easy sales by not catering to that crowd.
I know many would hate it, but having magic packs at 2 or 3 price points might produce amazing results.
It allows those of us who buy the higher end speculative cards to do so while leaving prices of regular cards stable for those who just want to play. It gives design room outside of gameplay, and makes speculation in standard harder. It gives more options for eternal players and Modern players to drop money on product that Wizards directly profits from.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.