And somehow that makes it OK to be unbanned. Not everyone wants to play BGx.
Every color but mono red has a way to deal with Bitterblossom, and if you're playing mono red, you shouldn't care about a few 1/1 fliers that make your opponent lose life anyway.
Now, obviously, there's no guarantee that the removal and such will work every time, but it's not like there's a true lack of ways to deal with enchantments in Modern, or Bogles would likely be a top tier deck.
Other decks also have answers to several suggested cards. White has rest in peace, every color has access to Tormod's crypt and relic of progenitus.
I'm not saying every card people have suggested could or should come off, but there are answers if you look for them.
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Collecting Maw of the Mire! Feel free to send me any you have, so long as they're in reasonable condition.
Yea not sure why people are talking like BB is unsolvable. Any decent modern deck has enchantment removal in their sideboard already whether it be wear/tear, naturalize, disenchant, hide/seek, decay, pulse, explosives, seal of primordium, qasali pridemage, harmonic sliver....
I missed some on the poll, but my unbanned list is:
Nacatl (Would be powerful, but it's easily answered)
Sword of the Meek (Should make the format more interesting)
JtMS (This is my pipe dream as a control player)
Ancient Visions (Again, very helpful for control. Powerful, but slow.)
Bloodbraid Elf (I don't think it should have been banned in the first place. I know Jund was pushed just a little too far, but I think DRS was the real culprit there.)
What I want Unbanned:
Wild Nacatl (lol what other aggro?)
Bitterblossom (this card just wouldn't actually do anything)
What I think will be Unbanned:
Nothing
I find it interesting that a lot of people want Sword to come off, but its just not going to happen, it has literally a 0% chance of coming of probably in the next few years if we have actually reasonable cards like Wild Nacatl on the list.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
...
Worst outcome:
Ban deathrite. Its a stupid ban that is unjustified. Its no more warping then bolt. Also i think it could lead to a banning of snapcaster mage in the future which would be aweful. Banning deathrite really ruins my expectation for the power level of this format. Still i could see it potentially happening due to the outcry from people who are ill informed.
Not a biased question (mine), since I do not even own DRS, but, if Nacatl was banned, or so I believe' because it was turning the format into a sea of RWG, then what about DRS that is now even being played in Burn decks?...
Let's be honest with ourselves guys. Deathrite does too much for 1cc. I'm not saying I want it banned, but if they did decide to ban it would anyone really be surprised? Mad yes, surprised...no.
I think Deathrite Shaman is safe for the time being. This may be cynical, but if he is going to get the axe, I don't think it will be until after RTR goes out of print. At the moment he is a pretty good reason to continue cracking packs of RTR, and banning him in Modern would largely remove that incentive. Something I don't think wizards is too keen to do.
I think they can unban almost everything that doesn't break the turn 4 rule. I would probably leave jitte on the list though. Chrome Mox is a tough one. We would need more counterspells in the format if that is coming off.
Aside from that, I would be happy with banning Deathrite Shaman.
I think they can unban almost everything that doesn't break the turn 4 rule. I would probably leave jitte on the list though. Chrome Mox is a tough one. We would need more counterspells in the format if that is coming off.
Aside from that, I would be happy with banning Deathrite Shaman.
Skullclamp, Mental Misstep, and probably Punishing Fire would need to stay banned.
I think Deathrite Shaman is safe for the time being. This may be cynical, but if he is going to get the axe, I don't think it will be until after RTR goes out of print. At the moment he is a pretty good reason to continue cracking packs of RTR, and banning him in Modern would largely remove that incentive. Something I don't think wizards is too keen to do.
Logically I have to agree with this. I highly doubt DRS gets banned, both for this reason, and because it's really not oppressing anyone that badly.
"Help! Help! I'm being repressed!!"
Seriously though, DRS creates a lot of different interactions, and keeps a lot of the other top decks in check. It does hose a few Storm/DredgeVine strategies in a way that's somewhat unfortunate, but amongst the big 4 that RichardHaro listed, DRS provides balance. More specifically, it allows for many levels of interaction among players, something Wizards is looking for in Modern. And it dies to everything, which still makes it fragile enough to not be a big deal. Yes, it should have been a 1/1. Maybe they'll errata it one day. (just kidding)
Preordain. Yeah, maybe. But I don't really understand how everyone says Blue Control isn't a thing. Or how those same people think Blue Control will suddenly become better than the existing Blue Tempo and Twin decks when they all have access to the same powerful cantrips. Ancestral Vision is the one card that I think pushes draw-go more than Tempo, but even then is it really enough without something like Jace to build towards in the late game? I'm unsure.
Skullclamp, Mental Misstep, and probably Punishing Fire would need to stay banned.
I agree, if I had to make a list of things to unban it would be:
Wild Nacatl
Green Sun's Zenith
Sword of the Meek
Bitter Blossom
Stoneforge Mystic
Ancestral Vision
Ponder
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Seething Song
Bloodbraid Elf
Golgari Grave Troll
I agree, if I had to make a list of things to unban it would be:
Wild Nacatl
Green Sun's Zenith
Sword of the Meek
Bitter Blossom
Stoneforge Mystic
Ancestral Vision
Ponder
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Seething Song
Bloodbraid Elf
Golgari Grave Troll
Hoping for bans on DRS and the fetchlands. Banning them would remove the odd asymmetry between allied and enemy colors in Modern, speed up the game, reduce the entry barrier into the format, and increase deck diversity, as players would be forced to use a variety of other lands in their place.
As for DRS, he simply does way too much for a 1-drop and appears in too many archetypes.
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These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Wizards. Please give me back my Dread Return. If you are going to allow DRS to coexist in the format with Scooze, the least you can do is give graveyard strategies some ammunition. Does it break the turn 3 rule? Not really. Every deck that could abuse DR in violation of the turn 4 rule is more vulnerable to removal than Infect (a deck that has consistently dodged bans for over 2 years, Shoal excluded) and Griselbrand (a turn 2 deck that also dodges bans and continues to come up short at large events and MTGO). There's as much, if not more, stigma around DR than around BB, but actually playing with the card shows that it's a lot fairer than people give it credit.
hey guys,
after the gp in praque is there any chance that Goryo's Vengeance could be banned? i mean 2 turn kills are possible, but not consistent..
I think you've answered your own question. T2 kills are just possible, but the turn 4 rule only is broken by decks that "consistently" win on turn 3 or earlier. GV doesn't do that anymore than Infect, and Infect is a deck that has threatened turn 2 and turn 3 wins for years (even without Shoal). It would be nice if Wizards gave some clarification on what makes a deck too "consistent' (Infect is fine, Seething Song Storm was not?), but from all available evidence, GV just hasn't broken that rule.
JTMS, SFM and GSZ are too powerful for modern. JTMS enables degenerate miracle shenanigans and other things, I have no idea how anyone can say they want SFM back with a straight face without wanting Batterskull banned (which basically means Wizards can never ever print good living weapons ever again since SFM is the enabler/tutor), and GSZ is just far too good with Dryad Arbor and Kiki-Jiki in the format, what's wrong with Chord of Calling?
Ponder makes Splinter Twin and Storm too good, as does Seething Song.
Bloodbraid Elf unbanned means Ancestral Visions can never be unbanned due to their interaction, and at the same time pushes RG too much and stifles a lot of decks that have emerged now (Junk, BG)
JTMS: Would miracle honestly be broken in a format without Top?
SFM: There are more broken things than a turn 3 Batterskull. Also, I hope that Wizards isn't going to print better living weapons than Batterskull either way, that would mess with Legacy. If an SFM unban means that Wizards will stop printing broken cards, then that is a good thing.
GSZ: It can't tutor Kiki-Jiki and it wasn't banned because of power-level. It was banned because Wizards didn't like seeing it in every green/white deck, which is stupid because the best cards will always see play.
Ponder: Storm is Tier 3 and wouldn't be broken by this. Splinter Twin can't win before Turn 4 either way and wouldn't be made too powerful.
Seething Song: Admittedly, if the cantrips were unbanned, this would push Storm too hard. I still think Past in Flames should have been banned instead.
Bloodbraid Elf: It isn't that broken with Ancestral Vision. It would create a new midrange deck that is not BGx. Even if it was Tier 1, I doubt that it would be Tier 0 (especially since the deck couldn't run counterspells with BBE).
Hoping for bans on DRS and the fetchlands. Banning them would remove the odd asymmetry between allied and enemy colors in Modern, speed up the game, reduce the entry barrier into the format, and increase deck diversity, as players would be forced to use a variety of other lands in their place.
As for DRS, he simply does way too much for a 1-drop and appears in too many archetypes.
Fetchlands: That would kill several decks and make many players quit the format. The allied fetchlands not being in the format just means that they should enter the format. Should the Onslaught fetchlands have been banned in Legacy before Zendikar came out? Your opponent only has to shuffle a few times in the game, get over it. Deck diversity wouldn't be increased, just card diversity, as people would be forced to play a bunch of bad cards to replace them.
DRS: He does a lot, but has he made any decks overpowered? Just because you don't like a card does not make it deserve a ban.
JTMS: Would miracle honestly be broken in a format without Top?
SFM: There are more broken things than a turn 3 Batterskull. Also, I hope that Wizards isn't going to print better living weapons than Batterskull either way, that would mess with Legacy. If an SFM unban means that Wizards will stop printing broken cards, then that is a good thing.
GSZ: It can't tutor Kiki-Jiki and it wasn't banned because of power-level. It was banned because Wizards didn't like seeing it in every green/white deck, which is stupid because the best cards will always see play.
Ponder: Storm is Tier 3 and wouldn't be broken by this. Splinter Twin can't win before Turn 4 either way and wouldn't be made too powerful.
Seething Song: Admittedly, if the cantrips were unbanned, this would push Storm too hard. I still think Past in Flames should have been banned instead.
Bloodbraid Elf: It isn't that broken with Ancestral Vision. It would create a new midrange deck that is not BGx. Even if it was Tier 1, I doubt that it would be Tier 0 (especially since the deck couldn't run counterspells with BBE).
Miracles arent the problem with jace. Have you ever played with him? If you have you should understand how easy it is to put games away with his +2.
And i seriously doubt there are worse things to do in modern than T3 uncounterable batterskull with flash. Thats nasty even in legacy, and we dont have the tools they do, like stiffle, or T1 kills.
GSZ is well banned, chord of calling and pod should be enough if you want tutoring.
Ponder is way too strong for modern, pre ordain, on the other hand might just be okay.
I was always against the song ban, i think the real offender was goblin electromancer, who made rituals/manamorphose insane.
Elf is banned for good reason, it made jund too oppresive. If you want elf back, which isnt bad in itself, something else in jund needs to go.
JTMS: Would miracle honestly be broken in a format without Top?
I'm not sure it would be, but it would certainly be quite a bit more powerful with Jace in the format. But the point is, JACE would be in the format. I'm still surprised at how people forget how powerful he is. Every blue deck would run him in some number, and that doesn't seem healthy to me. Cost issues aside, Jace is just still a little too overpowered for Modern. Maybe someday, but not this day.
SFM: There are more broken things than a turn 3 Batterskull. Also, I hope that Wizards isn't going to print better living weapons than Batterskull either way, that would mess with Legacy. If an SFM unban means that Wizards will stop printing broken cards, then that is a good thing.
And even more baffling is your opinion on SFM. The "more broken things" you are referring to must be the combo decks? And these broken things always require more than 1 card that costs 2 mana. And they usually require more slots than just "4 Stoneforge, 2 Equipment".
Have you ever played against Stoneblade in Legacy? If so, can you really tell me with a straight face that when Batterskull comes down turn 3, you're chances of winning are still high? And no, I'm not saying from the perspective of Legacy Storm or Dredge or Reanimator, but from the perspective of all the fair and midrange decks. Because our Combo decks are not exactly fast and resilient the way they are in Legacy. And regardless, turn 3 Batterskull just gives Control a MUCH better clock against the existing combo decks without forcing them to tap out. Your logic might hold up if Modern wasn't centered on Midrange interaction, but the fact is that's the name of the game. Turn 3 Batterskull (off of a tutor) is absolutely, astoundingly powerful in this format. It might be close to playable someday, but you are kidding yourself if you think it's fair and balanced for the existing format.
GSZ: It can't tutor Kiki-Jiki and it wasn't banned because of power-level. It was banned because Wizards didn't like seeing it in every green/white deck, which is stupid because the best cards will always see play.
Ponder: Storm is Tier 3 and wouldn't be broken by this. Splinter Twin can't win before Turn 4 either way and wouldn't be made too powerful.
Seething Song: Admittedly, if the cantrips were unbanned, this would push Storm too hard. I still think Past in Flames should have been banned instead.
Bloodbraid Elf: It isn't that broken with Ancestral Vision. It would create a new midrange deck that is not BGx. Even if it was Tier 1, I doubt that it would be Tier 0 (especially since the deck couldn't run counterspells with BBE).
Fetchlands: That would kill several decks and make many players quit the format. The allied fetchlands not being in the format just means that they should enter the format. Should the Onslaught fetchlands have been banned in Legacy before Zendikar came out? Your opponent only has to shuffle a few times in the game, get over it. Deck diversity wouldn't be increased, just card diversity, as people would be forced to play a bunch of bad cards to replace them.
DRS: He does a lot, but has he made any decks overpowered? Just because you don't like a card does not make it deserve a ban.
GSZ is powerful because it's a tutor, just like Stoneforge, only in this case it's a Llanowar Elf, DRS, Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, Kitchen Finks, Thrun, etc. all in one card, for the slight cost of 1 extra mana. And it reshuffles, which means your deck is always threat-dense. It's close, but it's still too powerful. Finding Kiki-Jiki isn't the point, the point is it makes Kiki-Jiki DECKS wayy more consistent. Rhinne's right, Chord of Calling is just fine for them. At least it requires them to have super mana or enough bodies to actually get something useful. GSZ just turns them into a "tutor everything" machine.
Ponder makes a lot of decks better, not just Twin. But yes, it makes Twin way more powerful. Finding the combo sooner is still quite valuable, even for the Tempo versions.
Bloodbraid into Ancestral Visions..... again I ask have you actually seen this happen? I mean, don't get me wrong it sounds like a lot of fun, and I'd love to play RUG Control with Jace, Bloodbraid, and AV and DRS and Lotus Cobra and all that Jazz. Deck would ROCK. Seriously though, Cascading into Ancestral Vision is good enough that people would probably play Violent Outburst just to cascade, since paying 3 to draw 3 is still insane value. Bloodbraid Elf though? Already banned, and you're saying that adding the best Cascade target into the mix would be just peachy? Please.
I agree with you on fetchlands and DRS, but on the rest you are just very misguided. If this were Legacy-Lite, and we had a healthier mix of Actual Control and Combo, your opinions might make more sense. But this is Midrange-Land, where value is king.
I'm not sure it would be, but it would certainly be quite a bit more powerful with Jace in the format. But the point is, JACE would be in the format. I'm still surprised at how people forget how powerful he is. Every blue deck would run him in some number, and that doesn't seem healthy to me. Cost issues aside, Jace is just still a little too overpowered for Modern. Maybe someday, but not this day.
I would like miracles to be in this format in some form, so I would support an eventual Jace unban. Also, only the fair blue decks would run Jace. In that way it is very similar to Tarmogoyf. But I agree that Jace is a little too powerful right now, I just want him unbanned eventually. If he was unbanned right now, I would be concerned.
And even more baffling is your opinion on SFM. The "more broken things" you are referring to must be the combo decks? And these broken things always require more than 1 card that costs 2 mana. And they usually require more slots than just "4 Stoneforge, 2 Equipment".
Have you ever played against Stoneblade in Legacy? If so, can you really tell me with a straight face that when Batterskull comes down turn 3, you're chances of winning are still high? And no, I'm not saying from the perspective of Legacy Storm or Dredge or Reanimator, but from the perspective of all the fair and midrange decks. Because our Combo decks are not exactly fast and resilient the way they are in Legacy. And regardless, turn 3 Batterskull just gives Control a MUCH better clock against the existing combo decks without forcing them to tap out. Your logic might hold up if Modern wasn't centered on Midrange interaction, but the fact is that's the name of the game. Turn 3 Batterskull (off of a tutor) is absolutely, astoundingly powerful in this format. It might be close to playable someday, but you are kidding yourself if you think it's fair and balanced for the existing format.
I understand your point, but I think that it could eventually be unbanned. Of course, I have an unhealthy infatuation with that card, so it might be that.
GSZ is powerful because it's a tutor, just like Stoneforge, only in this case it's a Llanowar Elf, DRS, Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, Kitchen Finks, Thrun, etc. all in one card, for the slight cost of 1 extra mana. And it reshuffles, which means your deck is always threat-dense. It's close, but it's still too powerful. Finding Kiki-Jiki isn't the point, the point is it makes Kiki-Jiki DECKS wayy more consistent. Rhinne's right, Chord of Calling is just fine for them. At least it requires them to have super mana or enough bodies to actually get something useful. GSZ just turns them into a "tutor everything" machine.
Actually, I'd be more concerned about Melira Pod than Kiki Pod. And Chord of Calling would still be better in the Pod decks because it can tutor all of the pieces of the combo at instant speed, not just one or zero combo pieces.
Ponder makes a lot of decks better, not just Twin. But yes, it makes Twin way more powerful. Finding the combo sooner is still quite valuable, even for the Tempo versions.
Let's look at what decks it makes better.
Storm: Needs the help
UR Delver: Needs the help
RUG Delver: Needs the help
Ninja Bear Delver: Needs the help
Griselbrand Reanimator: Needs the help
Amulet of Vigor: Needs the help
Ad Nauseam: Needs the help
Splinter Twin: Can't break the turn 4 rule
At worst, it would make Twin able to compete with BGx. At best, it helps several decks that need help, including multiple tempo decks.
Bloodbraid into Ancestral Visions..... again I ask have you actually seen this happen? I mean, don't get me wrong it sounds like a lot of fun, and I'd love to play RUG Control with Jace, Bloodbraid, and AV and DRS and Lotus Cobra and all that Jazz. Deck would ROCK. Seriously though, Cascading into Ancestral Vision is good enough that people would probably play Violent Outburst just to cascade, since paying 3 to draw 3 is still insane value. Bloodbraid Elf though? Already banned, and you're saying that adding the best Cascade target into the mix would be just peachy? Please.
First, how are you doing RUG cascade control? You can't run counter spells because you can cascade into them and counter your own spell. It would be midrange, and I still doubt that it would be as strong as BBE Jund. Also, people wouldn't run Violent Outburst to cascade into Ancestral Vision. You would either be playing a bad card for the small chance of getting the card that you want or removing all 1-2 mana cards from your deck and ruining your deck just to caste Jace's Ingenuity for 3 mana.
I agree with you on fetchlands and DRS, but on the rest you are just very misguided. If this were Legacy-Lite, and we had a healthier mix of Actual Control and Combo, your opinions might make more sense. But this is Midrange-Land, where value is king.
First, this is combo land, not midrange land. Also, Ponder and Jace are too powerful for helping combo and control, yet we wouldn't have strong control or combo?
Miracles arent the problem with jace. Have you ever played with him? If you have you should understand how easy it is to put games away with his +2.
And i seriously doubt there are worse things to do in modern than T3 uncounterable batterskull with flash. Thats nasty even in legacy, and we dont have the tools they do, like stiffle, or T1 kills.
GSZ is well banned, chord of calling and pod should be enough if you want tutoring.
Ponder is way too strong for modern, pre ordain, on the other hand might just be okay.
I was always against the song ban, i think the real offender was goblin electromancer, who made rituals/manamorphose insane.
Elf is banned for good reason, it made jund too oppresive. If you want elf back, which isnt bad in itself, something else in jund needs to go.
Jace: Richard said that Jace would enable degenerate miracle shenanigans, so I was responding to that. I really think that Jace would be okay if cards like DRS, Bolt, Goyf, Liliana, Snapcaster Mage, and Confidant are safe.
SFM: Good point, I think that it would be okay in the far future though (mostly I just want to brew with Elbrus, the Binding Blade).
GSZ: Again, why would it be too strong? It wasn't used in Jund when it was legal and it can't find all of the combo pieces in Pod. It is 1 mana too expensive for the turn 2 Amulet of Vigor win and there isn't enough room for it in Scapeshift. It would be run in Pod and Zoo, but I doubt that it would break anything,
Ponder: Any actual reason why, or are you just making a statement?
Every color but mono red has a way to deal with Bitterblossom, and if you're playing mono red, you shouldn't care about a few 1/1 fliers that make your opponent lose life anyway.
Now, obviously, there's no guarantee that the removal and such will work every time, but it's not like there's a true lack of ways to deal with enchantments in Modern, or Bogles would likely be a top tier deck.
Other decks also have answers to several suggested cards. White has rest in peace, every color has access to Tormod's crypt and relic of progenitus.
I'm not saying every card people have suggested could or should come off, but there are answers if you look for them.
Jund is like the Elite Four of Modern. Every young
trainerplayer has to defeat Jund to be the very best, like no one ever was.Nacatl (Would be powerful, but it's easily answered)
Sword of the Meek (Should make the format more interesting)
JtMS (This is my pipe dream as a control player)
Ancient Visions (Again, very helpful for control. Powerful, but slow.)
Bloodbraid Elf (I don't think it should have been banned in the first place. I know Jund was pushed just a little too far, but I think DRS was the real culprit there.)
Wild Nacatl (lol what other aggro?)
Bitterblossom (this card just wouldn't actually do anything)
What I think will be Unbanned:
Nothing
I find it interesting that a lot of people want Sword to come off, but its just not going to happen, it has literally a 0% chance of coming of probably in the next few years if we have actually reasonable cards like Wild Nacatl on the list.
See, you need to have the lightning bolt and the decay, whereas everyone knows fae ALWAYS has thoughtseize->BB->Scion
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Not a biased question (mine), since I do not even own DRS, but, if Nacatl was banned, or so I believe' because it was turning the format into a sea of RWG, then what about DRS that is now even being played in Burn decks?...
Honest question.
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
Aside from that, I would be happy with banning Deathrite Shaman.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
Skullclamp, Mental Misstep, and probably Punishing Fire would need to stay banned.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Logically I have to agree with this. I highly doubt DRS gets banned, both for this reason, and because it's really not oppressing anyone that badly.
"Help! Help! I'm being repressed!!"
Seriously though, DRS creates a lot of different interactions, and keeps a lot of the other top decks in check. It does hose a few Storm/DredgeVine strategies in a way that's somewhat unfortunate, but amongst the big 4 that RichardHaro listed, DRS provides balance. More specifically, it allows for many levels of interaction among players, something Wizards is looking for in Modern. And it dies to everything, which still makes it fragile enough to not be a big deal. Yes, it should have been a 1/1. Maybe they'll errata it one day. (just kidding)
Preordain. Yeah, maybe. But I don't really understand how everyone says Blue Control isn't a thing. Or how those same people think Blue Control will suddenly become better than the existing Blue Tempo and Twin decks when they all have access to the same powerful cantrips. Ancestral Vision is the one card that I think pushes draw-go more than Tempo, but even then is it really enough without something like Jace to build towards in the late game? I'm unsure.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I agree, if I had to make a list of things to unban it would be:
Wild Nacatl
Green Sun's Zenith
Sword of the Meek
Bitter Blossom
Stoneforge Mystic
Ancestral Vision
Ponder
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Seething Song
Bloodbraid Elf
Golgari Grave Troll
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
No Preordain?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
As for DRS, he simply does way too much for a 1-drop and appears in too many archetypes.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
...AND I JUST WANT MY DREAD RETURN BACK
I think you've answered your own question. T2 kills are just possible, but the turn 4 rule only is broken by decks that "consistently" win on turn 3 or earlier. GV doesn't do that anymore than Infect, and Infect is a deck that has threatened turn 2 and turn 3 wins for years (even without Shoal). It would be nice if Wizards gave some clarification on what makes a deck too "consistent' (Infect is fine, Seething Song Storm was not?), but from all available evidence, GV just hasn't broken that rule.
JTMS: Would miracle honestly be broken in a format without Top?
SFM: There are more broken things than a turn 3 Batterskull. Also, I hope that Wizards isn't going to print better living weapons than Batterskull either way, that would mess with Legacy. If an SFM unban means that Wizards will stop printing broken cards, then that is a good thing.
GSZ: It can't tutor Kiki-Jiki and it wasn't banned because of power-level. It was banned because Wizards didn't like seeing it in every green/white deck, which is stupid because the best cards will always see play.
Ponder: Storm is Tier 3 and wouldn't be broken by this. Splinter Twin can't win before Turn 4 either way and wouldn't be made too powerful.
Seething Song: Admittedly, if the cantrips were unbanned, this would push Storm too hard. I still think Past in Flames should have been banned instead.
Bloodbraid Elf: It isn't that broken with Ancestral Vision. It would create a new midrange deck that is not BGx. Even if it was Tier 1, I doubt that it would be Tier 0 (especially since the deck couldn't run counterspells with BBE).
Fetchlands: That would kill several decks and make many players quit the format. The allied fetchlands not being in the format just means that they should enter the format. Should the Onslaught fetchlands have been banned in Legacy before Zendikar came out? Your opponent only has to shuffle a few times in the game, get over it. Deck diversity wouldn't be increased, just card diversity, as people would be forced to play a bunch of bad cards to replace them.
DRS: He does a lot, but has he made any decks overpowered? Just because you don't like a card does not make it deserve a ban.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
If he doesn't add to the power of the decks then why is he becoming more and more ubiquitously used?
Miracles arent the problem with jace. Have you ever played with him? If you have you should understand how easy it is to put games away with his +2.
And i seriously doubt there are worse things to do in modern than T3 uncounterable batterskull with flash. Thats nasty even in legacy, and we dont have the tools they do, like stiffle, or T1 kills.
GSZ is well banned, chord of calling and pod should be enough if you want tutoring.
Ponder is way too strong for modern, pre ordain, on the other hand might just be okay.
I was always against the song ban, i think the real offender was goblin electromancer, who made rituals/manamorphose insane.
Elf is banned for good reason, it made jund too oppresive. If you want elf back, which isnt bad in itself, something else in jund needs to go.
I'm not sure it would be, but it would certainly be quite a bit more powerful with Jace in the format. But the point is, JACE would be in the format. I'm still surprised at how people forget how powerful he is. Every blue deck would run him in some number, and that doesn't seem healthy to me. Cost issues aside, Jace is just still a little too overpowered for Modern. Maybe someday, but not this day.
And even more baffling is your opinion on SFM. The "more broken things" you are referring to must be the combo decks? And these broken things always require more than 1 card that costs 2 mana. And they usually require more slots than just "4 Stoneforge, 2 Equipment".
Have you ever played against Stoneblade in Legacy? If so, can you really tell me with a straight face that when Batterskull comes down turn 3, you're chances of winning are still high? And no, I'm not saying from the perspective of Legacy Storm or Dredge or Reanimator, but from the perspective of all the fair and midrange decks. Because our Combo decks are not exactly fast and resilient the way they are in Legacy. And regardless, turn 3 Batterskull just gives Control a MUCH better clock against the existing combo decks without forcing them to tap out. Your logic might hold up if Modern wasn't centered on Midrange interaction, but the fact is that's the name of the game. Turn 3 Batterskull (off of a tutor) is absolutely, astoundingly powerful in this format. It might be close to playable someday, but you are kidding yourself if you think it's fair and balanced for the existing format.
GSZ is powerful because it's a tutor, just like Stoneforge, only in this case it's a Llanowar Elf, DRS, Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, Kitchen Finks, Thrun, etc. all in one card, for the slight cost of 1 extra mana. And it reshuffles, which means your deck is always threat-dense. It's close, but it's still too powerful. Finding Kiki-Jiki isn't the point, the point is it makes Kiki-Jiki DECKS wayy more consistent. Rhinne's right, Chord of Calling is just fine for them. At least it requires them to have super mana or enough bodies to actually get something useful. GSZ just turns them into a "tutor everything" machine.
Ponder makes a lot of decks better, not just Twin. But yes, it makes Twin way more powerful. Finding the combo sooner is still quite valuable, even for the Tempo versions.
Bloodbraid into Ancestral Visions..... again I ask have you actually seen this happen? I mean, don't get me wrong it sounds like a lot of fun, and I'd love to play RUG Control with Jace, Bloodbraid, and AV and DRS and Lotus Cobra and all that Jazz. Deck would ROCK. Seriously though, Cascading into Ancestral Vision is good enough that people would probably play Violent Outburst just to cascade, since paying 3 to draw 3 is still insane value. Bloodbraid Elf though? Already banned, and you're saying that adding the best Cascade target into the mix would be just peachy? Please.
I agree with you on fetchlands and DRS, but on the rest you are just very misguided. If this were Legacy-Lite, and we had a healthier mix of Actual Control and Combo, your opinions might make more sense. But this is Midrange-Land, where value is king.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Someone will create a 5 colour deck combining all banned cards, and that will be it. Armageddon.
I would like miracles to be in this format in some form, so I would support an eventual Jace unban. Also, only the fair blue decks would run Jace. In that way it is very similar to Tarmogoyf. But I agree that Jace is a little too powerful right now, I just want him unbanned eventually. If he was unbanned right now, I would be concerned.
I understand your point, but I think that it could eventually be unbanned. Of course, I have an unhealthy infatuation with that card, so it might be that.
Actually, I'd be more concerned about Melira Pod than Kiki Pod. And Chord of Calling would still be better in the Pod decks because it can tutor all of the pieces of the combo at instant speed, not just one or zero combo pieces.
Let's look at what decks it makes better.
Storm: Needs the help
UR Delver: Needs the help
RUG Delver: Needs the help
Ninja Bear Delver: Needs the help
Griselbrand Reanimator: Needs the help
Amulet of Vigor: Needs the help
Ad Nauseam: Needs the help
Splinter Twin: Can't break the turn 4 rule
At worst, it would make Twin able to compete with BGx. At best, it helps several decks that need help, including multiple tempo decks.
First, how are you doing RUG cascade control? You can't run counter spells because you can cascade into them and counter your own spell. It would be midrange, and I still doubt that it would be as strong as BBE Jund. Also, people wouldn't run Violent Outburst to cascade into Ancestral Vision. You would either be playing a bad card for the small chance of getting the card that you want or removing all 1-2 mana cards from your deck and ruining your deck just to caste Jace's Ingenuity for 3 mana.
First, this is combo land, not midrange land. Also, Ponder and Jace are too powerful for helping combo and control, yet we wouldn't have strong control or combo?
We'd have a bunch of Turn 2 combo decks that are barely kept in check by Mental Misstep.
Jace: Richard said that Jace would enable degenerate miracle shenanigans, so I was responding to that. I really think that Jace would be okay if cards like DRS, Bolt, Goyf, Liliana, Snapcaster Mage, and Confidant are safe.
SFM: Good point, I think that it would be okay in the far future though (mostly I just want to brew with Elbrus, the Binding Blade).
GSZ: Again, why would it be too strong? It wasn't used in Jund when it was legal and it can't find all of the combo pieces in Pod. It is 1 mana too expensive for the turn 2 Amulet of Vigor win and there isn't enough room for it in Scapeshift. It would be run in Pod and Zoo, but I doubt that it would break anything,
Ponder: Any actual reason why, or are you just making a statement?
BBE: Mostly this was just to keep Jace in check.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.