Elvish Piper and Tooth And Nail are nearly the same thing. What's the problem? Progenitus turn two is not overpowered... Just use a counter spell or a board wipe. It is no more broken than a turn two win infect deck. Gah. Oh well. I guess getting a Blightsteel Colossus turn two to four is much more fair. Am I missing something here? Why does no one want this card? Genuinely confusing.
Have you played with Natural Order before? Keep in mind that there are still a few people arguing that Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2 is too powerful for Modern. While I think those people are wrong, consider that in conjunction with your statement that you think turn 2 Progenitus isn't too powerful. You have Legacy if you want to be doing things like that.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Have I played with it in a sanctioned modern event? No. But I have of course played with it. I have a deck which focuses on Hydras that has it. But I only use it in Legacy and Casual Matches.
Did you not read any further than the Progenitus comment? Turn two win Infect decks exist and you are arguing with me about what constitutes as overpowered or not? Give me break. Magic is a game of checks, balances, and luck. Observe...
Well, there goes my incredible luck of getting all the cards I need in my first hand in order to pull off this move. Guess I lose. Haha.
To think I was the only person to even consider Counters Spells as valid response to Natural Order... I'm a genius apparently.
As for Stoneforge Mystic, I agree with you, there are many ways to stop that.
The difference between Infect and Natural Order is how easy they are to interact with. Infect loses to creature removal and blockers, besides Blighted Agent. Natural Order only loses to counter spells, meaning the majority of decks in the format have no way to deal with it. That's going to result in a very high number of virtual turn 2 or 3 kills
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Would also like to see the tog and rootwalla in Modern.
Natural Order Elves would be a really powerful deck. So count me in on the people opposed to having NO here. Expect Craterhoof to shoot up in price if NO becomes modern legal.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I wouldn't want Wasteland, it makes playing 4 drops a liability. Field of Ruin is a good LD land.
Field of Ruin gives parity like Wasteland, but hits way too late to be useful. At the end of the day, both you and the opponent are giving up a land when wasteland is used, effectively slowing the game down a turn. To be frank, in modern it might be better to print a version of wasteland that only hits non-basics. Ghost Quarter is far too easy to work around to be main deck viable most of the time. That and most decks need so little mana to run now or have so many alternative ways to get mana fixing, the old bird just can't shine like it used to.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Not too much different than xathrid necromancer or even vile redeemer. Impact is probably negligible unless an aristocrat style deck with human clerics ends up popping up but it still feels too slow.
Can't imagine it ever being as impactful as xathrid considering humans position in the meta game. Cleric cards would need to be busted in half to compete.
I think the only reason that card isn't in Modern is reprint opportunity. We haven't had any kind of cleric tribal synergy since Morningtide, and black cleric tribal cards haven't appeared since, well, Rotlung Reanimator's own block. It's even hard to fit into a core set given that knights and soldiers are far more popular class-based tribes in the same colors as most cleric support.
Ok, I think those are valid points. A little sad, Return to Dominaria would have been a good chance to print black clerics again.. because the Cabal is there.
Ok, I think those are valid points. A little sad, Return to Dominaria would have been a good chance to print black clerics again.. because the Cabal is there.
Clerics get thrown a bone every set or two and there are some deceptively crucial clerics. selfless spirit, soul warden, vizier of remedies, sin collector all see play in other decks. I would think it's a when and not an if, it's an ingrained tribe. Almost all of spirit tribal payoffs were from the two inn blocks too, so it may not even take much to give them a nudge.
An aristocrats deck feels like the playstyle the deck would go for I think.
I don't understand why Wizards insist on not reprinting it even though they added Utopia Sprawl which is variation with both an advantage (you can choose the color) and a drawback (the land must be a forest).
Even if Terravore is safe to print, the fact that it counts stuff in all graveyards drastically reduces its chances of showing up in Standard. Complexity and tracking issues, yada yada, you know the drill.
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Vorthos-y Johnny. All will be One
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Cards I would like were Modern legal:
Psychatog
Pernicious Deed
Counterspell
Wasteland
Basking Rootwalla
Containment Priest
Natural Order Elves would be a really powerful deck. So count me in on the people opposed to having NO here. Expect Craterhoof to shoot up in price if NO becomes modern legal.
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Some cards that would be fun to see in modern even if they don't get past FNM are Submerge, Diabolic Edict, Wirewood Symbiote, Equilibrium, Cabal Therapy, High Tide, Turnabout, Kaalia of the Vast, Karador, Ghost Chieftain, Chaos Warp, Animar, Soul of Elements, Altar of Dementia, Misdirection (basically safer than Force of Will), Arachnogenesis, and Reins of Power.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Field of Ruin gives parity like Wasteland, but hits way too late to be useful. At the end of the day, both you and the opponent are giving up a land when wasteland is used, effectively slowing the game down a turn. To be frank, in modern it might be better to print a version of wasteland that only hits non-basics. Ghost Quarter is far too easy to work around to be main deck viable most of the time. That and most decks need so little mana to run now or have so many alternative ways to get mana fixing, the old bird just can't shine like it used to.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Not too much different than xathrid necromancer or even vile redeemer. Impact is probably negligible unless an aristocrat style deck with human clerics ends up popping up but it still feels too slow.
Can't imagine it ever being as impactful as xathrid considering humans position in the meta game. Cleric cards would need to be busted in half to compete.
I think the only reason that card isn't in Modern is reprint opportunity. We haven't had any kind of cleric tribal synergy since Morningtide, and black cleric tribal cards haven't appeared since, well, Rotlung Reanimator's own block. It's even hard to fit into a core set given that knights and soldiers are far more popular class-based tribes in the same colors as most cleric support.
Ok, I think those are valid points. A little sad, Return to Dominaria would have been a good chance to print black clerics again.. because the Cabal is there.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Clerics get thrown a bone every set or two and there are some deceptively crucial clerics. selfless spirit, soul warden, vizier of remedies, sin collector all see play in other decks. I would think it's a when and not an if, it's an ingrained tribe. Almost all of spirit tribal payoffs were from the two inn blocks too, so it may not even take much to give them a nudge.
An aristocrats deck feels like the playstyle the deck would go for I think.
Always hope :).
I don't understand why Wizards insist on not reprinting it even though they added Utopia Sprawl which is variation with both an advantage (you can choose the color) and a drawback (the land must be a forest).
I hate losing an Utopia Sprawl due to Spreading Seas.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
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Terravore is a safe reprint as well and I'm not sure if it is even good enough to see play.
Terravore is easily 7/7 or 8/8, assuming the opponent also use fetchlands and the graveyard is not touched.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Spirits
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread