OK, maybe that's a bit of an overstatement, but it's a nice bookend to my other thread. Last night I had a really great night, I played 3 swiss queues and although I went 2 - 1 and 1 - 2 in the first two, which is a mediocre result, they were all fun. One thing that bugged me a little is that I hadn't opened any bomb card in any pack. So then on my third draft I was once again disappointed by my pack 1 and I decided to just throw caution to the wind and go all in on ...
It was actually really challenging and fun to try to make picks to build a deck that could live long enough to play Grave Betrayal. I got helped out by a few lucky pulls in remaining packs that just happened to work really well for my plan. And the amazing thing is that I went 3 - 0 with a deck that I thought, going in, had almost no chance of winning a single game, let alone match, let alone the whole shebang.
I am not sure what this is telling me. I'd like to believe that it's telling me that building a deck rather than picking cards just works, regardless of the jankiness of the card being built around, but I felt like there was too much good luck involved (sorry to have to invoke the L word again!) to really draw that conclusion. If I hadn't gotten three key uncommons and another rare that go well with this card, I don't think I would have had nearly the successs rate. Additionally, this was a draft where it seemed like I was the one who was constantly getting what I needed when I needed it while my opponents were color or mana screwed quite frequently.
I spent most of the time in disbelief that I was winning.
Anyway, it was a really fun draft night and a good contrast to my previous night. One thing I am still wondering is what lesson I should learn from this about drafting ...
Well you built a deck that turns the R from BREAD into the B as well. And that Demon is a monster in limited (and constructed). The colors were open so you got a lot of strong stuff for that deck. Had they disappeared you'd have been drafting dead. So, luck was definitely involved.
Whay I don't get is why your splashing for such mediocre cards. Trestle troll and golgliari charm? Isepera's skywatch? You'd be better off just playing mediocre cards in your colors. You don't have nearly the fixing required to throw a random blue cards in.
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Whay I don't get is why your splashing for suck mediocre cards. Trestle troll and golgliari charm? Isepera's skywatch? You'd be better off just playing mediocre cards in your colors. You don't have nearly the fixing required to throw a random blue cards in.
I played Golgari Charm as a way to save my creatures for another turn of blocking, also as a way to eliminate any 1/1s on the board (although since I had a fair number I ran the risk of killing mine as well) and also as an answer to T2 pack rat. These last two factors are very marginal, I absolutely agree. However, with few creatures in my deck I didn't mind a way to keep one or more alive through either an attack I couldn't otherwise handle, or even to just keep one alive in what would otherwise have been a trade situation. In the actual games I drew Golgari charm I think twice and each time it did exactly what I wanted it to do. Isperia's Skywatch was once again a card meant just to stall my opponent and provide a flying blocker, and maybe even some offense. Not enough to splash it? I had two blue sources and it's a 6 cost card. The games when I drew it, I had the mana for it.
Trestle Troll was defense, plain and simple. Most of my cards were meant for defensively stalling my opponent while I waited to get Grave Betrayal and some removal online.
I 100% admit this is not a particularly good strategy. And I think the fact that it worked was mostly down to good luck on my part, as I've already said. But I'd like to know if I mis-evaluated somehow because this idea of picking a bomb-ish card and building around it is intruiging. I didn't think I could do it consistently enough to make it a worthwhile strategy but if I could do it with Grave Betrayal, maybe it can be done with just about anything ...
Another interesting aspect is that I think I played my unleash creatures unleashed only one time. My turn 2 Grim Roustabout never came out unleashed. Similarly with Dead Reveler. My opponents were probably very confused but I was playing with a very specific plan.
1. Multiple active walls (walls that do more than just being walls): roustabout, trestle troll, ogre jailbreaker and lobber crew.
2. Great amount of removal (8 if we count the reaper and charm, and the demon act like an 9th).
I'd have been wary of the double splash, I'd have tried to draft more green to avoid the skywatch. But, yes, this looks more like a deck than a series of cards. The planets did have to be aligned to get that much removal.
with the amount of removal you have, bears go up in value a bit.
-1 skywatch
-1 izzet keyrune - keyrunes aren't worth it if you can't activate them normally)
-1 trestle troll - this won't reliably come down turn 3. it's a good card, but not good any turn after 3. not splash worthy
-1 golgari charm - i don't like this card main deck, even if i am green black. all of the modes are pretty situational. you have no creatures you want to save, and there's very little 1 toughness worth killing. you won't reliably have green to kill pack rats even if your opponent plays it
normally i'd play mind rot instead of slug, but you have 3 assasin's strikes, so you're liable to have their hand empty often. you could probably run the skywatch, seeing as your deck is almost mono-black. it's really not a splash worthy card, but your mana is probably safe. in that case i'd replace ether the daggerdome or the golgari long legs for it, and prehaps your 18th land for the izzet keyrune. it's the weakest keyrune, but it'll fix both your splashes, and maybe some how you could actually loot with it. if you run the skywaych, run 1 or 2 island, the guildgate, and a keyrune. 4 sources is a bit high for a splash card, but 2 of those sources are also red, and you'll easily be able to run enough black sources
you have a lot of late game removal, which means yo uwanted to spend your early turns playing threats, otherwise you'll just die to the first unremoved creature they play. you need a clock. even a tavern swinder->sewer shambler->4 removal spells should be enough to close out most games. grave betrayal is a card that supports your plan, but not a plan unto it's self (especially because you'll have used most of your removal before you play it).
the deck is a decent red/black control deck. you have removal and card advantage (which is very important if you're making lots of 1 for 1 trades). grave betrayal is a pretty slow card, and the times i've tried it, it's been weaker than i thought, but it could work in this deck. if anything, this is a desecration demon deck, more than a grave betrayel deck. that card is bonkers in limited, and he loves reoval spells.
it's not a bad deck, and having 15 black spells helsp the consistency (20 if you include gold cards). this really shoudl have gone in one of your other deck threads though. perhaps starting your own blog isn't a bad idea if you want daily deck feedback.
Going down to straight BR seems a lot better. Even BR just splashing the skywatch seems better. I love greedy decks but REALLY greedy decks will out card quality you easily and very consistent decks will steamroll you through your awkward 3s, clunky mana, and high curve.
18 Lands + Splash Keyrune + Glut of 6s + 7mana do-nothing enchantment = great way to lose games. 19 Mana sources with a hard to activate keyrune lets you get easily flooded.
If you are going to make a post about your swiss queues every day you really should make a blog or something. It would also be an easy way to keep track of your progress/decks for you.
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I write about cube and run cube drafts on magic online.
If you are going to make a post about your swiss queues every day you really should make a blog or something. It would also be an easy way to keep track of your progress/decks for you.
I don't intend to post about my swiss queues every day. I thought it was an interesting counterpoint to my other post. I got some good feedback which I appreciate.
Whay I don't get is why your splashing for suck mediocre cards. Trestle troll and golgliari charm? Isepera's skywatch? You'd be better off just playing mediocre cards in your colors.
Two colour decks with a splash aren't the only way to handle things. In this case the deck functions fine with only Black mana and splashes Green, Red and Blue. There are five sources for each of Red and Green, so Troll and Charm are both perfectly well supported.
The Blue splash does, admittedly, seem like a dubious plan. Not least because the deck seems to need to draw its lone Izzet Guildgate to ever activate the Keyrune. Consequently it's like a land you have to pay three mana to play and which might get destroyed.
Personally I'd maindeck that Sewer Shambler over Skywatch, but there's obviously a problem in taking out the Keyrune because the deck is full of 6+ drops but probably doesn't want to go all the way to 19 land. I'd probably take the Keyrune out for Mind Rot and hope the extra disruption is enough to buy time.
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The Blue splash does, admittedly, seem like a dubious plan. Not least because the deck seems to need to draw its lone Izzet Guildgate to ever activate the Keyrune. Consequently it's like a land you have to pay three mana to play and which might get destroyed.
I was just trying really hard to push a particular agenda, that being keep my opponent from doing much via removal and decent blockers and other disruption until I could get enough mana and enough time to draw the cards I really needed to play to win. I thought the Skywatch fit the plan, but it was a mana risky splash, I admit.
In terms of the keyrune, I actually never intended to activate it. I think the Izzet keyrune is far and away the weakest one and I have rarely seen it activated. I was using it solely as a source of acceleration to help get to my higher casting cost cards (wanted to be able to cast those 6 mana kill spells as early as possible), and as a source of fixing for red. The blue fixing was like a bonus and it enticed me to include the Skywatch, which may have been a bad decision, I admit. The fact is that I didn't have any problem casting the Skywatch in the games that I drew it and needed it, but I guess that's probably just down to luck.
Pushing a particular plan is one thing. Building a deck poorly is another one entirely.
Pushing an archetype or niche strategy is one thing. Drafting around a single card, a seven drop, no less, is reckless.
The point here is that while there are certainly circumstances in which you want to draft a slow, durdley deck that wins with late game swagger, you chose to embrace a single card and make some misguided deckbuilding choices all because of that singleton. You need to learn the difference between archetype and single-card strategy, as the distinction is pretty significant, and an understanding of it would've made this odd brew more consistent and well rounded, as others have pointed out.
Return to Ravnica limited rewards consistency and powerful game plans, but you can't risk sacrificing one in order to gain the other. Your deck wants to do powerful things with Grave Betrayal, but your curve is deplorable, your mana is incredibly awkward, and you're playing some cards that just aren't good enough to disregard perfectly playable, on-color options that would smooth out the deck and allow it to play a more balanced game with an available late game upside. You need to think three dimensionally, and this deck is far too schizophrenic in that regard. Hell, if you just cut the Grave Betrayal and about three of the six drops, you actually would have a pretty solid Rakdos midrange-type deck.
I know your response is likely going to be an irritated, defensive "I was just trying this out" kind of deal, so I'll try and preempt it by saying that while that's fine, Magic Online isn't the best place to try such things unless you have infinite funds to drop on it. Try free draft sims or casual drafts with friends, perhaps using repacked boosters. That way, you're not risking ~$13 every time you try something weird like this and lose, which will happen a whole hell of a lot more often than otherwise, IMO.
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I am not sure what this is telling me. I'd like to believe that it's telling me that building a deck rather than picking cards just works, regardless of the jankiness of the card being built around, but I felt like there was too much good luck involved (sorry to have to invoke the L word again!) to really draw that conclusion.
Grave Betrayal is an interesting rare because you really do have to build around it. It's a 7 mana card that doesn't do anything guaranteed. You need a lot of stalling cards and you need to be able to save your removal for post-Betrayal. It's a tall order. That said I think some people consider it unplayable, and it's not, it's just only playable in a very specific type of deck.
As others have said, your splashes make no sense except Auger Spree. Here's what I would have done:
Grave Betrayal is an interesting rare because you really do have to build around it. It's a 7 mana card that doesn't do anything guaranteed. You need a lot of stalling cards and you need to be able to save your removal for post-Betrayal. It's a tall order. That said I think some people consider it unplayable, and it's not, it's just only playable in a very specific type of deck.
As others have said, your splashes make no sense except Auger Spree. Here's what I would have done:
-1 Izzet Guildgate
-1 Mountain
+2 Forest
And maybe even swap another Swamp for Forest
That version is going to be much more consistent without changing your core strategy.
Rakdos ringleader is GREAT in the B/R midrange control deck. ESPECIALLY with SCAVENGE. Deviant Glee works just fine too. Know what can kill a 6/4 first striker that regenerates? nothing. Know what it can kill? everything. Bounce and exile are your only options at that point.
That being said, I would've went straight rakdos with this. Deviant Glee and daggerdrome inluded among other things. I wouldn't expect to win with this, but its not completely terrible either.
Rakdos ringleader is GREAT in the B/R midrange control deck. ESPECIALLY with SCAVENGE. Deviant Glee works just fine too. Know what can kill a 6/4 first striker that regenerates? nothing. Know what it can kill? everything. Bounce and exile are your only options at that point.
It's such a good card two turns and 8 mana later!!
No. Ringleader does not have a home in a deck that intends to win.
Oh and every bounce, tap, Aggro or Detain spell/creature gets honorable mention for easily outracing your really slow + some crazy combination of cards and mana to build 6/4 creature.
Plus the obligatory -- you can't expect to Scavenge something onto it in every game and talk about it like it's always 6/4. Most often it will be just 3/1 where even more still kills it like Stab Wound.
Completely irrelevant. Individual results do not make a card good. I've won a game after sideboarding in Destroy the Evidence against Grove of the Guardian. The card is still garbage.
Oh and every bounce, tap, Aggro or Detain spell/creature gets honorable mention for easily outracing your really slow + some crazy combination of cards and mana to build 6/4 creature.
Plus the obligatory -- you can't expect to Scavenge something onto it in every game and talk about it like it's always 6/4. Most often it will be just 3/1 where even more still kills it like Stab Wound.
Completely irrelevant. Individual results do not make a card good. I've won a game after sideboarding in Destroy the Evidence against Grove of the Guardian. The card is still garbage.
Hey now, I'm not saying to build a deck around the thing, far from it. I'm saying that when you already have a defensivive minded rakdos deck with lobber crews, rakdos guildmages, sewer shamblers, daggerdromes, and a TON of removal, its not a bad card. I don't know if I would call it a good card in general even, but in the right deck it CAN be good. I sure wouldn't call it garbage.
I'm seeing a lot of that Limited 'tude in this thread. Next person who condescendingly implies that they're a better drafter than someone else will be carded for trolling.
Thanks yall.
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I'll be sad if people don't start calling The Chain Veil "Fleetwood Mac."
Oh and every bounce, tap, Aggro or Detain spell/creature gets honorable mention for easily outracing your really slow + some crazy combination of cards and mana to build 6/4 creature.
I agree with the idea that you have to worry about more than just whether a creature hits the bin when talking about removal. Izzet tempo and Rakdos splash Blue tempo are good archetypes. And Inaction Injunction and creature detain like Skywatch are going to be played there, not to mention the powerhouse Voidweilder, which will just ruin Scavenge's day. Of course, that's not even to mention things like Blustersquall that don't care and will win on the spot regardless.
My first sealed pool, I built a Golgari splash Blue deck was a lot similar to this, and I valued Rubbleback Rhino higher than than Ringleader for that reason. If I am going to pay 3 to 4 mana for a Scavenge, I want the creature to stick. I think Rhino is one of the most underrated commons in the set for Golgari, and I see it table a lot. I have also sided in Dispel and Mizzium Skin for similar reasons, which always table as well.
What do you guys think of Assassin's Strike in this pool? I always thought it was just barely unplayable, and possibly would've been a player to pass one to the OP in this draft. Is it something that only control will want, or should I be picking this higher?
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Grave Betrayal
It was actually really challenging and fun to try to make picks to build a deck that could live long enough to play Grave Betrayal. I got helped out by a few lucky pulls in remaining packs that just happened to work really well for my plan. And the amazing thing is that I went 3 - 0 with a deck that I thought, going in, had almost no chance of winning a single game, let alone match, let alone the whole shebang.
I am not sure what this is telling me. I'd like to believe that it's telling me that building a deck rather than picking cards just works, regardless of the jankiness of the card being built around, but I felt like there was too much good luck involved (sorry to have to invoke the L word again!) to really draw that conclusion. If I hadn't gotten three key uncommons and another rare that go well with this card, I don't think I would have had nearly the successs rate. Additionally, this was a draft where it seemed like I was the one who was constantly getting what I needed when I needed it while my opponents were color or mana screwed quite frequently.
2 Grim Roustabout
1 Trestle Troll
1 Sewer Shambler
1 Dead Reveler
1 Lobber Crew
1 Ogre Jailbreaker
1 Desecration Demon
1 Slum Reaper
1 Golgari Longlegs
1 Rakdos Ragemutt
1 Rakdos Ringleader
1 Isperia's Skywatch
1 Golgari Charm
1 Izzet Keyrune
1 Auger Spree
1 Stab Wound
1 Launch Party
3 Assassin's Strike
1 Grave Betrayal
Land:
9 Swamp
3 Mountain
4 Forest
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Slitherhead
1 Druid's Deliverance
1 Survey the Wreckage
1 Seek the Horizon
1 Centaur's Herald
1 Swamp
1 Racecourse Fury
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Deviant Glee
1 Tavern Swindler
1 Sewer Shambler
1 Mountain
1 Daggerdrome Imp
1 Mind Rot
1 Catacomb Slug
1 Swamp
2 Destroy the Evidence
1 Azorius Keyrune
1 Armory Guard
1 Selesnya Sentry
1 Palisade Giant
If you're curious, you can view the full event here:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLctOOyA2B4R7e69p9X11pZdo5WpkEn8H
I spent most of the time in disbelief that I was winning.
Anyway, it was a really fun draft night and a good contrast to my previous night. One thing I am still wondering is what lesson I should learn from this about drafting ...
Well obviously that's not true since I'm just one person.
I played Golgari Charm as a way to save my creatures for another turn of blocking, also as a way to eliminate any 1/1s on the board (although since I had a fair number I ran the risk of killing mine as well) and also as an answer to T2 pack rat. These last two factors are very marginal, I absolutely agree. However, with few creatures in my deck I didn't mind a way to keep one or more alive through either an attack I couldn't otherwise handle, or even to just keep one alive in what would otherwise have been a trade situation. In the actual games I drew Golgari charm I think twice and each time it did exactly what I wanted it to do. Isperia's Skywatch was once again a card meant just to stall my opponent and provide a flying blocker, and maybe even some offense. Not enough to splash it? I had two blue sources and it's a 6 cost card. The games when I drew it, I had the mana for it.
Trestle Troll was defense, plain and simple. Most of my cards were meant for defensively stalling my opponent while I waited to get Grave Betrayal and some removal online.
I 100% admit this is not a particularly good strategy. And I think the fact that it worked was mostly down to good luck on my part, as I've already said. But I'd like to know if I mis-evaluated somehow because this idea of picking a bomb-ish card and building around it is intruiging. I didn't think I could do it consistently enough to make it a worthwhile strategy but if I could do it with Grave Betrayal, maybe it can be done with just about anything ...
Another interesting aspect is that I think I played my unleash creatures unleashed only one time. My turn 2 Grim Roustabout never came out unleashed. Similarly with Dead Reveler. My opponents were probably very confused but I was playing with a very specific plan.
He can say whatever he wants on this forum as long as it related to Limited. Unlike your response.
1. Multiple active walls (walls that do more than just being walls): roustabout, trestle troll, ogre jailbreaker and lobber crew.
2. Great amount of removal (8 if we count the reaper and charm, and the demon act like an 9th).
I'd have been wary of the double splash, I'd have tried to draft more green to avoid the skywatch. But, yes, this looks more like a deck than a series of cards. The planets did have to be aligned to get that much removal.
-1 skywatch
-1 izzet keyrune - keyrunes aren't worth it if you can't activate them normally)
-1 trestle troll - this won't reliably come down turn 3. it's a good card, but not good any turn after 3. not splash worthy
-1 golgari charm - i don't like this card main deck, even if i am green black. all of the modes are pretty situational. you have no creatures you want to save, and there's very little 1 toughness worth killing. you won't reliably have green to kill pack rats even if your opponent plays it
+1 tavern swindler, sewer shambler, daggerdome imp, catacomb slug
normally i'd play mind rot instead of slug, but you have 3 assasin's strikes, so you're liable to have their hand empty often. you could probably run the skywatch, seeing as your deck is almost mono-black. it's really not a splash worthy card, but your mana is probably safe. in that case i'd replace ether the daggerdome or the golgari long legs for it, and prehaps your 18th land for the izzet keyrune. it's the weakest keyrune, but it'll fix both your splashes, and maybe some how you could actually loot with it. if you run the skywaych, run 1 or 2 island, the guildgate, and a keyrune. 4 sources is a bit high for a splash card, but 2 of those sources are also red, and you'll easily be able to run enough black sources
you have a lot of late game removal, which means yo uwanted to spend your early turns playing threats, otherwise you'll just die to the first unremoved creature they play. you need a clock. even a tavern swinder->sewer shambler->4 removal spells should be enough to close out most games. grave betrayal is a card that supports your plan, but not a plan unto it's self (especially because you'll have used most of your removal before you play it).
the deck is a decent red/black control deck. you have removal and card advantage (which is very important if you're making lots of 1 for 1 trades). grave betrayal is a pretty slow card, and the times i've tried it, it's been weaker than i thought, but it could work in this deck. if anything, this is a desecration demon deck, more than a grave betrayel deck. that card is bonkers in limited, and he loves reoval spells.
it's not a bad deck, and having 15 black spells helsp the consistency (20 if you include gold cards). this really shoudl have gone in one of your other deck threads though. perhaps starting your own blog isn't a bad idea if you want daily deck feedback.
-Izzet Keyrune
-Trestle Troll
-Isperia's Skywatch
-1 Land
+Slitherhead/Mind Rot
+Tavern Swindler
+Daggerdrome Imp
+Sewer Shambler
+Catacomb Slug
Going down to straight BR seems a lot better. Even BR just splashing the skywatch seems better. I love greedy decks but REALLY greedy decks will out card quality you easily and very consistent decks will steamroll you through your awkward 3s, clunky mana, and high curve.
18 Lands + Splash Keyrune + Glut of 6s + 7mana do-nothing enchantment = great way to lose games. 19 Mana sources with a hard to activate keyrune lets you get easily flooded.
If you are going to make a post about your swiss queues every day you really should make a blog or something. It would also be an easy way to keep track of your progress/decks for you.
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I don't intend to post about my swiss queues every day. I thought it was an interesting counterpoint to my other post. I got some good feedback which I appreciate.
Two colour decks with a splash aren't the only way to handle things. In this case the deck functions fine with only Black mana and splashes Green, Red and Blue. There are five sources for each of Red and Green, so Troll and Charm are both perfectly well supported.
The Blue splash does, admittedly, seem like a dubious plan. Not least because the deck seems to need to draw its lone Izzet Guildgate to ever activate the Keyrune. Consequently it's like a land you have to pay three mana to play and which might get destroyed.
Personally I'd maindeck that Sewer Shambler over Skywatch, but there's obviously a problem in taking out the Keyrune because the deck is full of 6+ drops but probably doesn't want to go all the way to 19 land. I'd probably take the Keyrune out for Mind Rot and hope the extra disruption is enough to buy time.
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I was just trying really hard to push a particular agenda, that being keep my opponent from doing much via removal and decent blockers and other disruption until I could get enough mana and enough time to draw the cards I really needed to play to win. I thought the Skywatch fit the plan, but it was a mana risky splash, I admit.
In terms of the keyrune, I actually never intended to activate it. I think the Izzet keyrune is far and away the weakest one and I have rarely seen it activated. I was using it solely as a source of acceleration to help get to my higher casting cost cards (wanted to be able to cast those 6 mana kill spells as early as possible), and as a source of fixing for red. The blue fixing was like a bonus and it enticed me to include the Skywatch, which may have been a bad decision, I admit. The fact is that I didn't have any problem casting the Skywatch in the games that I drew it and needed it, but I guess that's probably just down to luck.
Pushing an archetype or niche strategy is one thing. Drafting around a single card, a seven drop, no less, is reckless.
The point here is that while there are certainly circumstances in which you want to draft a slow, durdley deck that wins with late game swagger, you chose to embrace a single card and make some misguided deckbuilding choices all because of that singleton. You need to learn the difference between archetype and single-card strategy, as the distinction is pretty significant, and an understanding of it would've made this odd brew more consistent and well rounded, as others have pointed out.
Return to Ravnica limited rewards consistency and powerful game plans, but you can't risk sacrificing one in order to gain the other. Your deck wants to do powerful things with Grave Betrayal, but your curve is deplorable, your mana is incredibly awkward, and you're playing some cards that just aren't good enough to disregard perfectly playable, on-color options that would smooth out the deck and allow it to play a more balanced game with an available late game upside. You need to think three dimensionally, and this deck is far too schizophrenic in that regard. Hell, if you just cut the Grave Betrayal and about three of the six drops, you actually would have a pretty solid Rakdos midrange-type deck.
I know your response is likely going to be an irritated, defensive "I was just trying this out" kind of deal, so I'll try and preempt it by saying that while that's fine, Magic Online isn't the best place to try such things unless you have infinite funds to drop on it. Try free draft sims or casual drafts with friends, perhaps using repacked boosters. That way, you're not risking ~$13 every time you try something weird like this and lose, which will happen a whole hell of a lot more often than otherwise, IMO.
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Grave Betrayal is an interesting rare because you really do have to build around it. It's a 7 mana card that doesn't do anything guaranteed. You need a lot of stalling cards and you need to be able to save your removal for post-Betrayal. It's a tall order. That said I think some people consider it unplayable, and it's not, it's just only playable in a very specific type of deck.
As others have said, your splashes make no sense except Auger Spree. Here's what I would have done:
-1 Izzet Keyrune
-1 Lobber Crew
-1 Rakdos Ragemutt
-1 Isperia's Skywatch
-1 Rakdos Ringleader (this card is just terrible anyway)
+1 Sewer Shambler
+1 Mind Rot
+1 Centaur's Herald
+1 Seek the Horizons (I don't like this card but you need it with 3x Assassin's Strike)
+1 Tavern Swindler (which you can sideboard out for Catacomb Slug against a slower opponent)
-1 Izzet Guildgate
-1 Mountain
+2 Forest
And maybe even swap another Swamp for Forest
That version is going to be much more consistent without changing your core strategy.
Actually I appreciate all of the feedback I get, and this little unnecessary dig aside, I appreciate your insights as well.
Rakdos ringleader is GREAT in the B/R midrange control deck. ESPECIALLY with SCAVENGE. Deviant Glee works just fine too. Know what can kill a 6/4 first striker that regenerates? nothing. Know what it can kill? everything. Bounce and exile are your only options at that point.
That being said, I would've went straight rakdos with this. Deviant Glee and daggerdrome inluded among other things. I wouldn't expect to win with this, but its not completely terrible either.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
It's such a good card two turns and 8 mana later!!
No. Ringleader does not have a home in a deck that intends to win.
I thought that too. Until I won with it. Twice.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
The following cards would like a word with you...
Arrest
Trostani's Judgment
Paralyzing Grasp
Auger Spree
Selesnya Charm
Detention Sphere
Oh and every bounce, tap, Aggro or Detain spell/creature gets honorable mention for easily outracing your really slow + some crazy combination of cards and mana to build 6/4 creature.
Plus the obligatory -- you can't expect to Scavenge something onto it in every game and talk about it like it's always 6/4. Most often it will be just 3/1 where even more still kills it like Stab Wound.
Completely irrelevant. Individual results do not make a card good. I've won a game after sideboarding in Destroy the Evidence against Grove of the Guardian. The card is still garbage.
Hey now, I'm not saying to build a deck around the thing, far from it. I'm saying that when you already have a defensivive minded rakdos deck with lobber crews, rakdos guildmages, sewer shamblers, daggerdromes, and a TON of removal, its not a bad card. I don't know if I would call it a good card in general even, but in the right deck it CAN be good. I sure wouldn't call it garbage.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
Thanks yall.
I agree with the idea that you have to worry about more than just whether a creature hits the bin when talking about removal. Izzet tempo and Rakdos splash Blue tempo are good archetypes. And Inaction Injunction and creature detain like Skywatch are going to be played there, not to mention the powerhouse Voidweilder, which will just ruin Scavenge's day. Of course, that's not even to mention things like Blustersquall that don't care and will win on the spot regardless.
My first sealed pool, I built a Golgari splash Blue deck was a lot similar to this, and I valued Rubbleback Rhino higher than than Ringleader for that reason. If I am going to pay 3 to 4 mana for a Scavenge, I want the creature to stick. I think Rhino is one of the most underrated commons in the set for Golgari, and I see it table a lot. I have also sided in Dispel and Mizzium Skin for similar reasons, which always table as well.
What do you guys think of Assassin's Strike in this pool? I always thought it was just barely unplayable, and possibly would've been a player to pass one to the OP in this draft. Is it something that only control will want, or should I be picking this higher?