Not to mention it has a good chance of pooping all over your graveyard order. It seems like you discard anything you'd want to discard a lot faster with Existence.
Also, would 1-2 Volrath's Tower be too redundant for the deck? It can mess with graveyard order and is an extra way to recur Shriekmaws
I think if you are going to commit to non-basics you open up the door for quite a few lands. Some of the black ones are some of the best, Bojuka Bog, Urborg TOY, Cabal Coffers, Urami.
Phyrexian Tower being another one, maybe even a sac outlet like Diamond Valley (or its mana making cousins). You also could in turn consider running wastelands.
Now you have to consider how the addition of those lands outweighs or doesn't outweigh the threat of wasteland.
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First you have to actually resolve korlash, which is hard enough since he costs 4 mana (could easily be the top of the curve).
Which also means there's basically nothing to ramp into except a bigger korlash, but the way this deck works, a bigger korlash doesn't matter since we can theoretically kill any creatures they have. I prefer Twisted Abomination since the swampcycling is instant and only costs 2 mana, and ramp is useless beyond turn 1 Dark ritual -> duress + hymn to tourach. The abom regens for less mana too.
Gens is pretty weak...you have to sac him to get any sort of recurring advantage out of him, and 4 mana to ramp 1 land and draw a card is not spectacular.
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The point of Thought Gorger is drop him after cleaning up the board. Shriekmaw is a 3/2 for 5 whearas Though Gorger is usually a 5/5+ for 4 that also draws you cards. Black does not have too many efficient beaters like 'Goyf so I figured the Gorgers would be nice since their drawback is relatively nonexistent in this deck; especially since they can block Vengvine and either not care or trade. Also 4cmc tops out the curve along with recurring Fleshbag Marauder, casting Krovikan Horror(which is uncommon).
well, while oath of ghouls seems good, what about oversold cemetery if you want something beyond tortured existence? I'm pretty sure most of the time there are at least 4 creatures in this graveyard. Other than that, tortured existence is instant speed any time only 2 negligible restrictions for a deck like this (mana and a critter to discard). I'm going with it as the superior choice, myself.
This is hilarious. Really. You've got exactly 4 different cards MD that have been used over the course of the entire thread. No Tortured Existence, no Shriekmaw, no Krovikan Horror... You've essentially removed the 'core' of the deck. For this matter, it's not even "The Nightmare Effect"; there's none of the original synergy, or even that of the latest builds.
Still, you need a creature to discard to get one back. That is no CA there. Evoke, by all means, works great, but you get no creature in play either. Evoking one Shriekmaw costs 3 mana if used with TE and a critter card = not the best terror there is. You still suffer from CA in midgame, Krovikan Horror is not good enough for solo recurring (wo using TE). Oath of Ghouls solves that alone.
About instant play. The only thing that Oath can't do is to instant recurr. Together with Aether Vial that deck can still play on an instant base and more spells per turn, not being such mana dependant. You can also get the desired creature back from your grave/play (chittering rats) by sacrificing it to Greater Gargadon. All I see is creature control and some discard effects. To be frank that is not enough against high tier decks. For starters, they don't play as many creatures rendering much of of the deck quite useless. There has to be some cards that can handle combo, and control.
When writing this primer, I looked at every Reanimate/"Raise Dead"-type effect. Oath of Ghouls was so bad, I really thought nobody would consider even bringing it up. I mean, really... Oath has so many down sides... Pinguster did a good job of covering a lot of them. I'd like to emphasize a few things:
It's only during your upkeep. This means when graveyard hate comes into the picture, you can't protect any of your key players.
It works for both players. With more players running grave-hate main, this is incredibly bad. Post board, you're basically guaranteed to face it. This is the same reason that all the Oaths (aside from Druids), Howling Mine, Font of Mythos, etc. are bad.
TE on turn one followed by Hymn Turn 2, means you got no mana left to use TE and you can't, you got no creature in it. I'd much rather play turn one Aether Vial/Cabal Therapy to see what I am up against followed by t2 mesmeric and so on, dropping Oath in midgame when the CA it produces matters. With 27 creatures in the deck which of 4 are tutors, 3 are graveyard fillers (gargadon) 8 are meant to die (mesmeric/rats) 4 Therapies that ensures recurring both ways for B and another 2 that removes cards in gy, it's very hard to see how the opponent will ever manage to have more than you.
On this note, you do realize that the only synergy between Mesmeric Fiend and Cabal therapy is that you can view their hand before casting Therapy, offering you a chance for a "guaranteed" hit. I'd much rather be running Thoughtseize or Duress, or even Inquisition of Kozilek, for that matter.
Spellsnare is more or less being replaced by spellpierce.
While true, you'll still be awkwardly embarrassed when Oath gets countered, period. Without Oath, what do you have? It just kinda looks like RB bad aggro/control.
The main problem is how do you kill him off to recur him?
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The reason why I gave Shriekmaw the axe is because it can't be fetched with Imperial Recruiter. I tested Boneshredder, seemed slow. I tested Stinkweed = better but it is just a blocker, it doesn't remove the threat instantaneous. Stingscourger works just fine as a remover.
Well i've been following this thread for the past week and i must say im really into this idea.
so far i've tested almost all of what you guys have thrown in here, and i must say i found some things better than others.. as for example i was sure that vial must be here, but not even in the Black/Red list has proven to be worthy.
also the gargadon idea is pretty neat.. and the fact that you can put a nightmare effect by removing a counter on him is amazing. so thats a plus on that build.
although i must say i believe im a lot more into the Mono black version cause it is harder to disrupt, ive been testing a list and it has proven to be the best for me ill put it here along with my version of the BR build, but before that correct me if im wrong here..
zombie infestation + 3 krovikan horror = infinite zombie tokens at the end of turn right?... i am pretty sure but i mean did i miss this interaction in the post, did someone wrote it and i just overlooked?.. cause that is sick.
// Spells
3 [OD] Zombie Infestation
3 [WL] Buried Alive
3 [TE] Corpse Dance
4 [SH] Tortured Existence
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [DDC] Dark Ritual
I will explain why did i choose those questionable cards.. It is pretty simple Cabal therapy is the best discard outlet you can have in this deck caus eit doesnt affect you if you need to sac a creature and if you can take 2 or 3+ cards with one single therapy its ☺☺☺☺ing great.
The mesmeric is there cause even if it takes a card temporarily you will be able to re use him most of the time in a more permanent way later.
The zombie infestation is for that combo i mentioned earlier.
Im not sure about the buried alive as a 3 of, i mean it is so ☺☺☺☺ing important to cast one of this most of the times that i may put the 4th one in there.
I just swear that testing in MWS is really not reliable for this deck, most of the times i get hands that ar ejust outright unbearable, so i recomend you all to try it on real cards.
As for the sb well it will all depend on the meta, but im sure 3 to 4 pithing needle are a must here ( to stop tormods, survival etc).. and i saw in some other forum a guy that wanted to throw in the doomsday combo in this deck.. well that could be a great idea if you just transfomrm your deck using 6 to 7 cards in your sb hehe.
It's not infinite because the end step only happens once. As soon as you bring the horror back to your hand, pitching it again won't bring it back till next end step.
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It's not infinite because the end step only happens once. As soon as you bring the horror back to your hand, pitching it again won't bring it back till next end step.
As i see it it happens like this.
you have 3 krovikan in grave all right on top of each other, so a the beginning of the end step the abillity triggers you return 1 to your hand and pitch it with infestation with some other card while the bottom horror abillity is still on the stack then the top horror will triggering by having the one you just thrown in there, so you return both and so on.
Im not sure but since it says during the end of the turn.. or am i missing some errata here?
Well either way if its not infinite itsmaybe 2 or 3 zombies per end step and thats not bad either right?
The horror doesn't work as printed, it has oracle text:
At the beginning of the end step, if Krovikan Horror is in your graveyard with a creature card directly above it, you may return Krovikan Horror to your hand.
Your end step has only one beginning. It happens. You get 2 horrors back. You can pitch them to get a zombie. That's it.
The top krovikan will not return to your hand, because when the end step comes, there's nothing above it, so the condition is checked and fails and nothing happens. The other 2 will return to your hand, and you can pitch them but they won't come back till next end step.
So basically, the infestation will net you 1 zombie a turn. Wouldn't you rather be doing something more powerful? Personally I have no room for infestation, I'm using my 4-of slots to run TE, horrors, dark rit, buried alive, duress and hymn (how are you guys doing without hymn? I find the deck loses a TON of power without it).
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I love the card. However, I don't feel that The Nightmare Effect has the proper pieces to make it work. I've been playing around with a build using Zombie Infestation on MTGO, but that part of the deck was 4x Infestation, 4x Krovikan Horror and 4x Squee, Goblin Nabob, alongside Buried Alive. Basically, the entire deck had to change to make it work.
Don't get me wrong, it's a neat interaction, but I don't feel that it's quite right for The Nightmare Effect.
As for this RB Oath of Ghouls deck that's been floating around, it differs far too much for further discussion in this thread. If you wish to discuss that further, please start a new thread.
Faerie Macabre was one of the first cards to be suggested for the sideboards... like, ever since the card's printing (so since the deck's creation). The card's synergy with Tortured Existence, the fact that it's virtually uncounterable, and that it's also a body makes for a triple threat. This was great when Reanimator was a deck to beat, works great against Vengevine, Dredge... well, pretty much anything grave-themed.
If you felt the post was a waste of your time to respond to you could have opted to not respond. Your bad.
Despite the fact that it was indeed a waste of my time, I did feel the need to respond for a few reasons:
1). Despite the fact that I've been neglecting the OP as of late, I'm still the primer/thread maintainer.
2). I subscribe to my threads. That means I've got to read your dreck regardless of whether I log on.
3). Proving a point. It's not that hard to search the OP or the thread as a whole to see if a card has already been suggested. If you need a tutorial, I've got a nice Powerpoint on how to use the Find Function on your web browser and how to use the Search feature on MTGSalvation.
1BB at instant speed to Raise Dead, get a 2/1 first strike surprise blocker, and kill off a nasty that doesn't have to be non-black/artifact? Plus, you can block or sac it to Viscera Seer/Carrion Feeder and TE the creature you returned for another round! The fact that this deck tends to accumulate cards in hand is also a bonus. I am playing it and Shriekmaw in a 3/2 split, it's working out really well so far, especially against aggro.
Viscera Seer is definitely better in comparison with Carrion Feeder, sifting extra TE's/Corpse Dances and finding lands to the bottom is better than having a 3/3 that dies to a Bolt the next time I feed it something. Seer is "weak" enough to go under the radar as a key piece of the deck. The Feeder's inability to block was often relevant in my matches.
Solemn Simulacrum as a 1-of to fetch with Buried Alive is good while trying to steamroll control. It beats them at their own CA game.
Avatar of Woe is my janky test slot fatty. Evasion on a 6 power beatstick is hot. Plus, it removes the black and artifact creatures that I have trouble against with Shriekmaw. It is useful in situations where I lack a TE or Dance but have a full yard from 1-for-1's or cycling/tricks.
Viscera Dragger is my budget version of Undead Gladiator. It is doing fairly well for me, a 3/3 body is also good, but it needs the TE engine up to do very much. Same with Twisted Abomination, but for lands (considering cutting it to 2). Going to cut to two Draggers.
I cut Corpse Dance to 2. I was drawing two copies too often. Don't have that problem any more. Getting the draw step lock with Mesmeric Fiend, Viscera Seer, and Corpse Dance is meh; I can normally deal with whatever they play as long as the rest of their board has been decimated.
Necroplasm rapes D&T, Goblins, random weenies, Elves, Merfolk, etc. I don't know if I should run more than the one-of, though.
Is this really the right place to put Dark Rituals? I feel as if we don't need the acceleration unless going off something like T1 Ritual, Duress + Hymn. Playing T1 Duress, T2 Hymn worked just as well in test matches without wasting a card. Against fast aggro decks the restriction on what Duress can take often neuters its effectiveness in the aforementioned T1 discard combo. Thoughtseize circumvents that restriction, but at the cost of life, which is exactly what you don't want to do against an aggro deck.
I'm contemplating cutting Faceless Butchers entirely for a full set of Nightshades and 3 Shriekmaws, although I don't know how good of an idea it is. Butchers cost a lot of mana each turn to keep going, while an Assassin or a Shriekmaw can go off twice a turn more easily on less mana. Assassin also recurs a creature in the process, essentially making it 1BB for a repeatable machine gun. Will post results.
EDIT: Wow, just realized Spawning Pit does crazy stuff here. Maybe worth testing a bit?
My meta's infested with Affinity and some random weenie swarm stuff, so I run Nightshades to deal with them. The Gatekeeper is often less relevant, Nightshades are basically extra Shriekmaws AT INSTANT SPEED!!11zomg for 1-2 more mana with first strike that don't have limits on what they can target. With TE, they are pure CA (return a creature + kill a creature + flash in a 2/1 first striker). Without one, at least they don't lose any advantage (kill a creature + get a dude). I'm at a 3/3 split between Maws and Assassins right now.
Assassins also let you pull sick combat tricks at instant speed. Vs a rogue WW deck (not D&T) I flashed one in, revealing 8 cards to kill a fully pumped Figure of Destiny, returning another one and flashing it in again to kill another weenie and return something else, then blocking his dudes with my first-strikers. It was sexy. Admittedly a fringe case, but still extremely sexy
Gatekeeper is awesome, it's just that I don't have them yet :(, I am currently using 1 Fleshbag Marauder in its place, tutorable with Buried Alive. Although he does like to play with my 2 copies of Corpse Dance. Same with the Assassin.
Are you running a singleton Stinkweed Imp, along with Vampire Nighthawk at the same time? I was debating whether I needed two similar creatures. I already have one Nighthawk in my main. Dredge seems really useful. Necroplasm is a nice deterrent/beater in addition to sweeping the board, having him as a one-of that I just tutor up when I need him works well.
My cop-out method of killing planeswalkers (especially Jace) is to actually play a Krovikan Horror, then ping the offending walker to death. Disgusting, I know. That's only if I can't force through damage with Shriekmaws, Nighthawks, or the Avatar, though. If not, then following the OP's suggestion of Terastodon seems to be the only way to go.
I find that with 2-3 Duress, 3-4 Hymns, and 2-4 Mesmerics, I really don't have a problem stripping a walker from their hand.
I found another old gem in my trades binder: Thrashing Wumpus. Costs a lot to play, but it may solve several problems at once. Going to test it out.
okay i hate to waste space but at this point i am some what confused..... i've tried to understand but i can only figure out the nightmare effect but not the way to play the deck.
i hope i'm not wasting space but would someone explain how this deck would last in legacy? i'm seeing problems in how fast the deck is. i would like to know how you would play this hand for optimal effect with the next 3 card being
If anyone can come up with a way to beat jace in monoblack, really I'll be so happy. I want a 4cmc black walker so bad, I'll be maindecking 3 instantly.
Pithing Needle shuts down JTMS, among other things. Discard can force one down through answers unless your opponent has a completely BS hand (JTMS with double force of will backup, etc)
Drain Life will also kill a JTMS with a large enough X. Profane Command would actually be a better choice, though, since its better at killing creatures and gets some bonus action. Suffer the Past is conditionally better at killing JTMS at one less mana, and at instant speed (which is highly relevant vs control).
EOT Corpse Dance for Molten-Tail Masticore would also do the trick (pay 4 and exile a creature card in response to the sacrifice trigger, aim for the dome and redirect to JTMS). Murderous Redcap or Triskelion are perhaps better options (although at that point, Corpse Dance for Terastodon).
Soul Spike if getting three-for-one'd isn't as bad as letting JTMS live.
okay i hate to waste space but at this point i am some what confused..... i've tried to understand but i can only figure out the nightmare effect but not the way to play the deck.
i hope i'm not wasting space but would someone explain how this deck would last in legacy? i'm seeing problems in how fast the deck is. i would like to know how you would play this hand for optimal effect with the next 3 card being
if someone could help me i'd greatly appreciate it. if not sorry for wasting space. :\
Assuming you are on the play, the obvious move is T1 swamp + Carrion Feeder (you could drop the TE, but with no abuse its not really worthwhile. I'd cast the feeder first for sure if opponent was playing blue, since you are more likely to land the TE for the win after the discard spells).
Followup with a turn 2 Hymn, draw the fleshbag. T3 you draw the fiend, cast it, and in response to the ETB trigger sacrifice it to the carrion feeder. T4 fleshbag if they have any creatures out, otherwise buried alive for Krovikan Horror(s) + other useful dudes. Twisted Abomination would be a good choice to get the rest of the needed land drops.
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I think if you are going to commit to non-basics you open up the door for quite a few lands. Some of the black ones are some of the best, Bojuka Bog, Urborg TOY, Cabal Coffers, Urami.
Phyrexian Tower being another one, maybe even a sac outlet like Diamond Valley (or its mana making cousins). You also could in turn consider running wastelands.
First off, he is a large regenerating beatstick. The deck is already running basic swamps for mana, anyhow.
Secondly, 2x Korlash + Tortured Existence turns a creature in hand + 1 mana into two tapped swamps in play.
Its a fairly slow play, but could be a finisher for the deck.
Solemn Simulacrum is also a possibility.
Which also means there's basically nothing to ramp into except a bigger korlash, but the way this deck works, a bigger korlash doesn't matter since we can theoretically kill any creatures they have. I prefer Twisted Abomination since the swampcycling is instant and only costs 2 mana, and ramp is useless beyond turn 1 Dark ritual -> duress + hymn to tourach. The abom regens for less mana too.
Gens is pretty weak...you have to sac him to get any sort of recurring advantage out of him, and 4 mana to ramp 1 land and draw a card is not spectacular.
Currently playing:
UW Modern Tron WU
UR Modern Storm RU
UW [CARD]Rasputin Dreamweaver
[/CARD] UW
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
You need to read the OP. The big card advantage comes from the Tortured Existence-Krovikan Horror interaction. Buried Alive was run in the original build to set this up.
When writing this primer, I looked at every Reanimate/"Raise Dead"-type effect. Oath of Ghouls was so bad, I really thought nobody would consider even bringing it up. I mean, really... Oath has so many down sides... Pinguster did a good job of covering a lot of them. I'd like to emphasize a few things:
It's only during your upkeep. This means when graveyard hate comes into the picture, you can't protect any of your key players.
It works for both players. With more players running grave-hate main, this is incredibly bad. Post board, you're basically guaranteed to face it. This is the same reason that all the Oaths (aside from Druids), Howling Mine, Font of Mythos, etc. are bad.
On this note, you do realize that the only synergy between Mesmeric Fiend and Cabal therapy is that you can view their hand before casting Therapy, offering you a chance for a "guaranteed" hit. I'd much rather be running Thoughtseize or Duress, or even Inquisition of Kozilek, for that matter.
While true, you'll still be awkwardly embarrassed when Oath gets countered, period. Without Oath, what do you have? It just kinda looks like RB bad aggro/control.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
It does sort of cost 4, though.
what about nightshade assassin or nekrataal?
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
so far i've tested almost all of what you guys have thrown in here, and i must say i found some things better than others.. as for example i was sure that vial must be here, but not even in the Black/Red list has proven to be worthy.
also the gargadon idea is pretty neat.. and the fact that you can put a nightmare effect by removing a counter on him is amazing. so thats a plus on that build.
although i must say i believe im a lot more into the Mono black version cause it is harder to disrupt, ive been testing a list and it has proven to be the best for me ill put it here along with my version of the BR build, but before that correct me if im wrong here..
zombie infestation + 3 krovikan horror = infinite zombie tokens at the end of turn right?... i am pretty sure but i mean did i miss this interaction in the post, did someone wrote it and i just overlooked?.. cause that is sick.
ok heres my Black version.
// Lands
22 [SHM] Swamp (1)
// Creatures
4 [AL] Krovikan Horror
1 [ALA] Fleshbag Marauder
3 [LRW] Shriekmaw
4 [TO] Mesmeric Fiend
4 [SC] Carrion Feeder
1 [ROE] Pathrazer of Ulamog
// Spells
3 [OD] Zombie Infestation
3 [WL] Buried Alive
3 [TE] Corpse Dance
4 [SH] Tortured Existence
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [DDC] Dark Ritual
I will explain why did i choose those questionable cards.. It is pretty simple Cabal therapy is the best discard outlet you can have in this deck caus eit doesnt affect you if you need to sac a creature and if you can take 2 or 3+ cards with one single therapy its ☺☺☺☺ing great.
The mesmeric is there cause even if it takes a card temporarily you will be able to re use him most of the time in a more permanent way later.
The zombie infestation is for that combo i mentioned earlier.
Im not sure about the buried alive as a 3 of, i mean it is so ☺☺☺☺ing important to cast one of this most of the times that i may put the 4th one in there.
I just swear that testing in MWS is really not reliable for this deck, most of the times i get hands that ar ejust outright unbearable, so i recomend you all to try it on real cards.
As for the sb well it will all depend on the meta, but im sure 3 to 4 pithing needle are a must here ( to stop tormods, survival etc).. and i saw in some other forum a guy that wanted to throw in the doomsday combo in this deck.. well that could be a great idea if you just transfomrm your deck using 6 to 7 cards in your sb hehe.
ok now heres my B/R list.
// Lands
11 [UG] Swamp
4 [ZEN] Mountain (3)
4 [B] Badlands
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
// Creatures
1 [ALA] Fleshbag Marauder
1 [TE] Mogg Fanatic
2 [SC] Carrion Feeder
4 [TSP] Greater Gargadon
3 [LRW] Shriekmaw
1 [TO] Mesmeric Fiend
3 [SHM] Demigod of Revenge
1 [ARB] Anathemancer
1 [PLC] Stingscourger
1 [UL] Avalanche Riders
4 [AL] Krovikan Horror
// Spells
4 [TE] Dark Ritual
4 [SH] Tortured Existence
3 [WL] Buried Alive
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
I havent tested this.. so im just throwing it in..
well.. lets keep polishing this idea guys it might be competitive if we manage to make the sinergy at 100%
cheers
currently playing
Standard RUGRUG Ramp
Modern GRTurbo Moon,RRRSkred Red
Legacy BBBNightmare Effect,GUWEnchantress,UWBCephalid Breakfast
As i see it it happens like this.
you have 3 krovikan in grave all right on top of each other, so a the beginning of the end step the abillity triggers you return 1 to your hand and pitch it with infestation with some other card while the bottom horror abillity is still on the stack then the top horror will triggering by having the one you just thrown in there, so you return both and so on.
Im not sure but since it says during the end of the turn.. or am i missing some errata here?
Well either way if its not infinite itsmaybe 2 or 3 zombies per end step and thats not bad either right?
currently playing
Standard RUGRUG Ramp
Modern GRTurbo Moon,RRRSkred Red
Legacy BBBNightmare Effect,GUWEnchantress,UWBCephalid Breakfast
Your end step has only one beginning. It happens. You get 2 horrors back. You can pitch them to get a zombie. That's it.
The top krovikan will not return to your hand, because when the end step comes, there's nothing above it, so the condition is checked and fails and nothing happens. The other 2 will return to your hand, and you can pitch them but they won't come back till next end step.
So basically, the infestation will net you 1 zombie a turn. Wouldn't you rather be doing something more powerful? Personally I have no room for infestation, I'm using my 4-of slots to run TE, horrors, dark rit, buried alive, duress and hymn (how are you guys doing without hymn? I find the deck loses a TON of power without it).
I love the card. However, I don't feel that The Nightmare Effect has the proper pieces to make it work. I've been playing around with a build using Zombie Infestation on MTGO, but that part of the deck was 4x Infestation, 4x Krovikan Horror and 4x Squee, Goblin Nabob, alongside Buried Alive. Basically, the entire deck had to change to make it work.
Don't get me wrong, it's a neat interaction, but I don't feel that it's quite right for The Nightmare Effect.
As for this RB Oath of Ghouls deck that's been floating around, it differs far too much for further discussion in this thread. If you wish to discuss that further, please start a new thread.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
Growing it long in the back,
So savage and so free.
Read the opening post and don't waste my time.
Yes, I'm going to be rude here. It's in the OP, right at the top of Section IV. Spend 30 seconds to ctrl+F the OP, or use the search function.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
If you felt the post was a waste of your time to respond to you could have opted to not respond. Your bad.
Growing it long in the back,
So savage and so free.
[ctrl]+F. Try it out. Seriously.
Right you are.
Despite the fact that it was indeed a waste of my time, I did feel the need to respond for a few reasons:
1). Despite the fact that I've been neglecting the OP as of late, I'm still the primer/thread maintainer.
2). I subscribe to my threads. That means I've got to read your dreck regardless of whether I log on.
3). Proving a point. It's not that hard to search the OP or the thread as a whole to see if a card has already been suggested. If you need a tutorial, I've got a nice Powerpoint on how to use the Find Function on your web browser and how to use the Search feature on MTGSalvation.
As they say, reading is tech.
Warmest regards,
-Jon Poppele
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
1BB at instant speed to Raise Dead, get a 2/1 first strike surprise blocker, and kill off a nasty that doesn't have to be non-black/artifact? Plus, you can block or sac it to Viscera Seer/Carrion Feeder and TE the creature you returned for another round! The fact that this deck tends to accumulate cards in hand is also a bonus. I am playing it and Shriekmaw in a 3/2 split, it's working out really well so far, especially against aggro.
Viscera Seer is definitely better in comparison with Carrion Feeder, sifting extra TE's/Corpse Dances and finding lands to the bottom is better than having a 3/3 that dies to a Bolt the next time I feed it something. Seer is "weak" enough to go under the radar as a key piece of the deck. The Feeder's inability to block was often relevant in my matches.
Solemn Simulacrum as a 1-of to fetch with Buried Alive is good while trying to steamroll control. It beats them at their own CA game.
Avatar of Woe is my janky test slot fatty. Evasion on a 6 power beatstick is hot. Plus, it removes the black and artifact creatures that I have trouble against with Shriekmaw. It is useful in situations where I lack a TE or Dance but have a full yard from 1-for-1's or cycling/tricks.
Viscera Dragger is my budget version of Undead Gladiator. It is doing fairly well for me, a 3/3 body is also good, but it needs the TE engine up to do very much. Same with Twisted Abomination, but for lands (considering cutting it to 2). Going to cut to two Draggers.
I cut Corpse Dance to 2. I was drawing two copies too often. Don't have that problem any more. Getting the draw step lock with Mesmeric Fiend, Viscera Seer, and Corpse Dance is meh; I can normally deal with whatever they play as long as the rest of their board has been decimated.
Necroplasm rapes D&T, Goblins, random weenies, Elves, Merfolk, etc. I don't know if I should run more than the one-of, though.
Is this really the right place to put Dark Rituals? I feel as if we don't need the acceleration unless going off something like T1 Ritual, Duress + Hymn. Playing T1 Duress, T2 Hymn worked just as well in test matches without wasting a card. Against fast aggro decks the restriction on what Duress can take often neuters its effectiveness in the aforementioned T1 discard combo. Thoughtseize circumvents that restriction, but at the cost of life, which is exactly what you don't want to do against an aggro deck.
I'm contemplating cutting Faceless Butchers entirely for a full set of Nightshades and 3 Shriekmaws, although I don't know how good of an idea it is. Butchers cost a lot of mana each turn to keep going, while an Assassin or a Shriekmaw can go off twice a turn more easily on less mana. Assassin also recurs a creature in the process, essentially making it 1BB for a repeatable machine gun. Will post results.
EDIT: Wow, just realized Spawning Pit does crazy stuff here. Maybe worth testing a bit?
Assassins also let you pull sick combat tricks at instant speed. Vs a rogue WW deck (not D&T) I flashed one in, revealing 8 cards to kill a fully pumped Figure of Destiny, returning another one and flashing it in again to kill another weenie and return something else, then blocking his dudes with my first-strikers. It was sexy. Admittedly a fringe case, but still extremely sexy
Gatekeeper is awesome, it's just that I don't have them yet :(, I am currently using 1 Fleshbag Marauder in its place, tutorable with Buried Alive. Although he does like to play with my 2 copies of Corpse Dance. Same with the Assassin.
Are you running a singleton Stinkweed Imp, along with Vampire Nighthawk at the same time? I was debating whether I needed two similar creatures. I already have one Nighthawk in my main. Dredge seems really useful. Necroplasm is a nice deterrent/beater in addition to sweeping the board, having him as a one-of that I just tutor up when I need him works well.
My cop-out method of killing planeswalkers (especially Jace) is to actually play a Krovikan Horror, then ping the offending walker to death. Disgusting, I know. That's only if I can't force through damage with Shriekmaws, Nighthawks, or the Avatar, though. If not, then following the OP's suggestion of Terastodon seems to be the only way to go.
I find that with 2-3 Duress, 3-4 Hymns, and 2-4 Mesmerics, I really don't have a problem stripping a walker from their hand.
I found another old gem in my trades binder: Thrashing Wumpus. Costs a lot to play, but it may solve several problems at once. Going to test it out.
2 swamp
1 terastodon
1 hymn to tourach
1 carrion feeder
1 tortured existance
1 buried alive
i hope i'm not wasting space but would someone explain how this deck would last in legacy? i'm seeing problems in how fast the deck is. i would like to know how you would play this hand for optimal effect with the next 3 card being
1 mesmeric fiend
1 swamp
if someone could help me i'd greatly appreciate it. if not sorry for wasting space. :\
Cigarettes are a lot like hamsters, perfectly harmless until you stick one in your mouth and light it on fire.
Pithing Needle shuts down JTMS, among other things. Discard can force one down through answers unless your opponent has a completely BS hand (JTMS with double force of will backup, etc)
Drain Life will also kill a JTMS with a large enough X. Profane Command would actually be a better choice, though, since its better at killing creatures and gets some bonus action. Suffer the Past is conditionally better at killing JTMS at one less mana, and at instant speed (which is highly relevant vs control).
EOT Corpse Dance for Molten-Tail Masticore would also do the trick (pay 4 and exile a creature card in response to the sacrifice trigger, aim for the dome and redirect to JTMS). Murderous Redcap or Triskelion are perhaps better options (although at that point, Corpse Dance for Terastodon).
Soul Spike if getting three-for-one'd isn't as bad as letting JTMS live.
Assuming you are on the play, the obvious move is T1 swamp + Carrion Feeder (you could drop the TE, but with no abuse its not really worthwhile. I'd cast the feeder first for sure if opponent was playing blue, since you are more likely to land the TE for the win after the discard spells).
Followup with a turn 2 Hymn, draw the fleshbag. T3 you draw the fiend, cast it, and in response to the ETB trigger sacrifice it to the carrion feeder. T4 fleshbag if they have any creatures out, otherwise buried alive for Krovikan Horror(s) + other useful dudes. Twisted Abomination would be a good choice to get the rest of the needed land drops.