Well, well, well. I just had my previously mentioned deck reviewed by a knowledgeable acquaintance with group playtesting experience, and received the following points from him (ie. this is not my opinion, and I do not hold myself out as being an expert in anything MTG-related):
- While some people prefer going for the long haul with Pox and using The Rack or Cursed Scroll for small amounts of damage over time, he prefers fast aggression while the opponent is put off balance, so he eschews those artifacts for more of Tombstalker and Chimeric Idol. The issue appears to be that Pox inherently does not do well if it cannot remain ahead or the opponent is allowed time to recover.
- There are no issues with having Mishra's Factory and Chimeric Idol out at the same time if you only activate one or the other. At worst, you use Mishra's Factory to attack, and Chimeric Idol to block, when tapping your lands doesn't matter so much.
- He didn't see any point to Funeral Charm when Extirpate further punishes the opponent's losses (I've experienced this myself against his Pox deck), and also gives some sort of chance against combo. Stripping out win conditions like Tarmogoyf really pours cold water on some decks.
One thing that is possible against combo using Extirpate is to maindeck Thoughtseize and have Duress and Haunting Echoes in the sideboard, using those to go all out to make the combo player discard his pieces and use Extirpate or Haunting Echoes to clear them out permanently. However, Haunting Echoes requires Dark Ritual to be in the deck to be able to get it out quickly enough.
- Tangle Wire isn't as good as it sounds. Since you don't often have all that many permanents, you often stall yourself as much as the opponent.
- If you need lots of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to prop up the black mana sources, you probably didn't have enough Swamps to begin with. Not to mention that it makes Wasteland a bit more useful against you.
Based on that information, my deck currently looks like this:
- While some people prefer going for the long haul with Pox and using The Rack or Cursed Scroll for small amounts of damage over time, he prefers fast aggression while the opponent is put off balance, so he eschews those artifacts for more of Tombstalker and Chimeric Idol. The issue appears to be that Pox inherently does not do well if it cannot remain ahead or the opponent is allowed time to recover.
i can get on board w/ this, i don't think cards like the rack and cursed scroll should be discredited. they are just better in different versions of pox. they may only do a few damage a turn, but that damage adds up. one thing to point out about the rack is multiple copies in play can be absolutely devastating. i don't play the rack in my build, but that's not to say it shouldn't be played in pox.
- There are no issues with having Mishra's Factory and Chimeric Idol out at the same time if you only activate one or the other. At worst, you use Mishra's Factory to attack, and Chimeric Idol to block, when tapping your lands doesn't matter so much.
i wouldn't say there were zero issues. it's not uncommon for your opponent to have little no permanents, especially creatures. it would be nice to be able to swing in with both of them then. i can see your friend's point on this one, and having them both in the main could work out if you used them as he stated. i'm running both right now and haven't had a huge problem w/ it, but there have been those times where one has hindered the other.
- He didn't see any point to Funeral Charm when Extirpate further punishes the opponent's losses (I've experienced this myself against his Pox deck), and also gives some sort of chance against combo. Stripping out win conditions like Tarmogoyf really pours cold water on some decks.
One thing that is possible against combo using Extirpate is to maindeck Thoughtseize and have Duress and Haunting Echoes in the sideboard, using those to go all out to make the combo player discard his pieces and use Extirpate or Haunting Echoes to clear them out permanently. However, Haunting Echoes requires Dark Ritual to be in the deck to be able to get it out quickly enough.[/card]
i disagree... somewhat. i can say that funeral charm is not necessary. i can also say that extirpate is a fine replacement. as you said, stripping their deck of vital finishers or other tech can be absolutely brutal. i, however, disagree that dark ritual should ever be run in any pox build. haunting echoes is not an early game card. it can be a devastating, game winning card, but it's not designed to come out on turn three. the only time i can see that being warranted would be against something like dredge. and if it's really that good against dredge on turn three, you've probably already lost on turn two.
- Tangle Wire isn't as good as it sounds. Since you don't often have all that many permanents, you often stall yourself as much as the opponent.
again i disagree... tangle wire can be absolutely amazing. i see your friend's point, but the thing he should take notice of is the fact that pox decks tend to run artifacts that can be tapped to the tangle wire. i can understand not running the card as it's not a must have, but it's power against certain decks and in certain games should not be understated. it's a very annoying card to see on the other side of the table.
- If you need lots of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to prop up the black mana sources, you probably didn't have enough Swamps to begin with. Not to mention that it makes Wasteland a bit more useful against you.[/card]
the fact that you have crucible of worlds makes the wasteland argument obsolete. also the fact that you're playing a deck like pox makes the wasteland argument obsolete. and lastly, the fact that you're running something like 23-25 lands makes the wasteland argument obsolete. with crucible out, i doubt they'll sacrifice there land for no real benefit. also they are probably running low on resources, especially lands, (if your deck is working, that is) so the likelihood of them sacrificing the wasteland to kill an urborg, tomb of yawgmonth isn't very high. and even if they do this on, let's say, turn 2, you're running enough lands in your deck that it shouldn't be hard for you to recover. especially if you then break out a turn four pox on them. they'll wish they had saved that wasteland then.
Take that information for what you think it's worth.
the way you're build looks there, i'd say take out the rituals to put the 3 urborg and the 1 volrath's stronghold back in. never understimate the power of a high land count in a pox deck. 23-25 is correct.
Tangle Wire isn't as good as it sounds. Since you don't often have all that many permanents, you often stall yourself as much as the opponent.
I don't understand how people keep trying to say Tangle Wire isn't amazing.
When you play Tangle wire you have to understand that you're opponent has to tap, 4, 3, 2, 1 permenants while you as the pox player only have to tap 2, 1 permenants. This is due to strategicly removing fade counters on the stack and being able to tap tangle wire to itself. Because you're playing the Tangle Wire you play it when it is of maximum benefit to you (Usually as early as possible), where as your opponents strategy will never benifit from you playing it.
Playing the card early basically gives you a Time Walk, playing it late after a Pox should also give you a Time Walk effect. The only deck that uses this card better is Stax
Ermm yeah tangle wire is amazing...good god people what do you play against do you play against stax with pox all day or what because tangle wire won't affect them a lot and it won't affect you a lot.
Yeah I don't like haunting echoes in pox that much sure if it resolves against some decks it is really good but you have to commit 5 mana to it, which can net a big gain or huge loss if they fow it or counter it in some way you are likely tapped out after playing it due to the effect pox and smallpox has on your landbase.
Yeah wasteland against urborg, tomb of yawgmoth is meaningless when you run crucible and you have about 24 lands in your deck anyways because you want to consistently hit mana with pox; getting manascrewed means you are having a) really bad topdecks b) you kept a questionable hand or c) you're playing too few lands in your deck
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
i can get on board w/ this, i don't think cards like the rack and cursed scroll should be discredited. they are just better in different versions of pox. they may only do a few damage a turn, but that damage adds up. one thing to point out about the rack is multiple copies in play can be absolutely devastating. i don't play the rack in my build, but that's not to say it shouldn't be played in pox.
I don't disagree with you. Merely personal preference, that's all.
i wouldn't say there were zero issues. it's not uncommon for your opponent to have little no permanents, especially creatures. it would be nice to be able to swing in with both of them then. i can see your friend's point on this one, and having them both in the main could work out if you used them as he stated. i'm running both right now and haven't had a huge problem w/ it, but there have been those times where one has hindered the other.
He also mentioned that either one attacks pretty well in tandem with Nether Spirit for a bit more damage at once compared to The Rack or Cursed Scroll.
i disagree... somewhat. i can say that funeral charm is not necessary. i can also say that extirpate is a fine replacement. as you said, stripping their deck of vital finishers or other tech can be absolutely brutal. i, however, disagree that dark ritual should ever be run in any pox build. haunting echoes is not an early game card. it can be a devastating, game winning card, but it's not designed to come out on turn three. the only time i can see that being warranted would be against something like dredge. and if it's really that good against dredge on turn three, you've probably already lost on turn two.
I was quite surprised that Extirpate had not been mentioned in this thread yet. From what I interpreted, Haunting Echoes is not a main deck thing, but rather something in sideboard to go balls to the wall against a combo deck. I agree that it's likely to be a very risky if it doesn't go off, but some chance is better than no chance against a fast combo anyway.
I finally obtained the last few components to finish my Pox deck (as listed previously), and gave it a run in an actual game. I retained Dark Ritual, and contrary to popular opinion here, still found it useful to have. It allowed me to continue playing things with only a Swamp in play, and was also used to boost mana to get Tombstalker out if there wasn't enough cards in the graveyard to Delve for it.
I achieved close to a 50% win ratio this evening, which I thought was doing pretty OK for someone with no practical experience using Pox. Surprisingly, things like when to play Smallpox or Pox started making more sense once I was in the game. However, I'm still not that proficient at making that decision, and at the same time, I'm pretty bad at choosing what to use Extirpate on.
In any case, I found Pox a fun challenge to use, since most of the time, you are on a knife edge.
what did you get to play against? knowing when to cast pox or smallpox can be tricky, but it comes to you. it's very dependent on a lot of different factors in the game. the same goes for extirpate targets too. when i cast extirpate i try to choose the card that's going to do me the most harm or do my opponent the most good. and i'd prefer that be a card that i won't already have an answer to. (like a sorcery or enchantment).
Dark ritual is junk in pox...you have to understand this is a control deck, not a run out of the gates screaming deck.
Also whoever had the borderposts in a mono black build...why not splash red for blightning or maybe even thought hemorrhage (almost strictly for the damage part)
I like extirpate in pox; removes life from the loam from the game (although they do have burning wish unfortunately). Extirpate is just awesome against aggro loam which is one of our toughest matchups as stated in the OP
Heck I'm going to try the borderposts in my deck I'll have to tweak some stuff though and it may not be suited seeing as how you have to return a basic land to your hand, something my deck doesn't run a lot of.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
First thing was Ninja Fish, then Death and Taxes. Probably not the most indicative matchups, but I thought the deck did well enough for a first showing.
if only the borderposts didn't come into play tapped. but then they'd probably be broken. they seem like they have potential in a splashy pox build, but i'm not sure exactly. i mean... if you're sitting on four land, you could theoretically play the borderpost, returning a land to your hand, cast pox, and then play the land your returned. hey, i said it was possible, not likely, but definitely possible. i don't know... i think maybe cipt makes them not really playable. do let us know how your testing goes, barl. these things intrigue me.
@jwai: those are fine decks to test against. then again, any deck is a fine deck to test against. just keep playing your pox build. you'll start to see when the right time to cast pox is and how it differs when playing against different decks. i love this deck.
and also, i totally agree w/ barl on the subject of dark ritual. if you need ritual to help you recover and get something on the board after casting pox, you're not running enough lands. if you cast pox it should be hurting your opponent a lot more than it's hurting you. it should be a rare occasion that pox hinders you in any way.
The borderposts would be SO ridiculous IF they could return any land to hand not just a basic. That's the problem with them they HAVE to return a basic wizards just nerfed them as much as they could IMO having it come into play tapped and having to return a basic land good god if only they had dropped either of those clauses then they would be a lot better.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I am not a fan of maindecking Extirpate- it does almost nothing to improve many of the match-ups that are normally difficult for Pox, such as burn and heavy, fast aggro, though, granted, it does help vs. combo.
I very much like them in the sideboard, however, especially after you have gathered intelligence on your opponent's deck archetype and focus.
So far, I have only done minimal testing with the :symb::symr: borderpost. It works rather nicely in a Crucible build with both Mox Diamonds and Retrace spells. However, it requires us to run much more basic lands than we would normally run in a build that abuses Crucible. Also, in these builds, we are presenting our opponents with several artifacts: Mox Diamond, Crucible, Borderpost, The Rack and/or Cursed Scroll, etc. While this is good versus opponents who sideboard in targeted artifact removal, as we force them to make choices, this is very bad against sideboard cards like Rebuild, Hurkyl's Recall, and Shattering Spree.
It is a tough call that I am still trying to make. If I can find any more useful cards to abuse a build of this style that requires us to dabble into red, it will be much easier to decide to include the borderposts. However, at this time, I can't find enough incentive to do so.
Hey. I'm thinking of making this budget version. This was pretty much given to me on a differnet thread, but i'd love further thoughts on it. Are rituals bad? Because i do feel that combo will become even tougher w/out rituals.
Mainly, i'm wondering about
Chimeric Idol vs Phyrexian Totem: Which do you guys think is better? (for my build)
Ritual: Should i replace ritual with say 1-2 more land a few more spells?
4 Powder Keg
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Perish
I never felt that I needed the Rituals, it was an good idea to cut them.
I never saw the Raven's Crime so I couldn't say anything about it.
MB Extirpate was good against Fetchland Tendrils^^, and helped me in a game against Dreadstill, because I Extirpated his Stifle and he boarded the Trickbinds out.
MellowMight, your list looks pretty decent. I'm not a fan of the Dark Rituals though. I'd probably run Chimeric Idol over the Totem.
I don't think you'll have that hard of a time versus Combo with 8 T1 selective discard spells after sideboarding, in terms of whether or not to keep Dark Ritual in.
4 Powder Keg
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Perish
I never felt that I needed the Rituals, it was an good idea to cut them.
I never saw the Raven's Crime so I couldn't say anything about it.
MB Extirpate was good against Fetchland Tendrils^^, and helped me in a game against Dreadstill, because I Extirpated his Stifle and he boarded the Trickbinds out.
so far
Necro
Interesting build, and I am surprised the maindecked Extirpates worked so well for you. Also, definite congratulations on taking 2nd place!!!!
In the games that you played, how often did you cast Extirpate game 1, and how often did that improve your situation?
Xanth - You left the I out of Raven's Crime in Your Crucible Pox list. It's a small thing but I thought You might like to know so You can fix it so the card link works.
even when the target is just a Force, it helps you to get your important spells through counters, and removed Swords helps that Tombstalker stays in play and kills the opponent.
Here is my updated list after a lot of playtesting. I decided to take the bordeposts out because they only slowed me down too much even though they did create a great advantage.
tweakedsynth, first I'd like to suggest to you some Urborg,To- hehe just kidding Your list looks pretty good, but I would argue it would benefit from a few more threats. Either the addition of The Rack or Cursed Scroll. Both work rather well with Tangle Wire. To make room for them, I would consider cutting a combination of Duresses and Innocent Bloods. Duress can often prove rather useless versus many aggro-oriented decks, and it is most typically a dead draw late game when you and your opponent are both in top-deck mode. I'd definitely keep them in the sideboard though, to board in versus combo and certain control. Sideboard- that's another thing you're missing. Here's a quick one:
I think you might be right about duress. Maybe more threats could help, but I'm a bit undecided about The Rack. I ran some in my list before but whenever I played it my opponents would always have a full hand because my Poxes and Smallpoxes always left them with so little lands. It only ended up dealing damage for me in a small number of games. But maybe the cursed scroll would help, and I could always try The Rack again.
I think you might be right about duress. Maybe more threats could help, but I'm a bit undecided about The Rack. I ran some in my list before but whenever I played it my opponents would always have a full hand because my Poxes and Smallpoxes always left them with so little lands. It only ended up dealing damage for me in a small number of games. But maybe the cursed scroll would help, and I could always try The Rack again.
The rack is pretty bad. You're better off just hitting with nether spirit/stalker, so i'd favor more of them in the md.
The Rack is between useless and rather wonderful, depending on the design of your deck. I would only really advocate it's use if you don't pack Sinkhole, and if you maindeck (and abuse) 2 copies of Raven's Crime, which really helps keep their hand down to zero, in addition to 4x Funeral Charm, 4x Hymn to Tourach.
In most matches with my Crucible Pox list that I play, The Rack will end up doing at least 5 damage over the course of the game. That's 5 damage, often more, for :1mana:, but still, it depends entirely on the design of your deck.
I think your deck could take pretty good advantage of it, tweakedsynth. I'd try adding a 2nd Raven's Crime for it though, and 2-3x The Rack. It's stellar with Tangle Wire.
I just discovered this thread. I built a Pox deck but am running in a 5-way games (only) w/things like Syphon Soul, Subversion & Necropotence etc. Yeah..casual format.
The deck has always been rather hit or miss. You've given me a LOT of new tech to explore.
- While some people prefer going for the long haul with Pox and using The Rack or Cursed Scroll for small amounts of damage over time, he prefers fast aggression while the opponent is put off balance, so he eschews those artifacts for more of Tombstalker and Chimeric Idol. The issue appears to be that Pox inherently does not do well if it cannot remain ahead or the opponent is allowed time to recover.
- There are no issues with having Mishra's Factory and Chimeric Idol out at the same time if you only activate one or the other. At worst, you use Mishra's Factory to attack, and Chimeric Idol to block, when tapping your lands doesn't matter so much.
- He didn't see any point to Funeral Charm when Extirpate further punishes the opponent's losses (I've experienced this myself against his Pox deck), and also gives some sort of chance against combo. Stripping out win conditions like Tarmogoyf really pours cold water on some decks.
One thing that is possible against combo using Extirpate is to maindeck Thoughtseize and have Duress and Haunting Echoes in the sideboard, using those to go all out to make the combo player discard his pieces and use Extirpate or Haunting Echoes to clear them out permanently. However, Haunting Echoes requires Dark Ritual to be in the deck to be able to get it out quickly enough.
- Tangle Wire isn't as good as it sounds. Since you don't often have all that many permanents, you often stall yourself as much as the opponent.
- If you need lots of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to prop up the black mana sources, you probably didn't have enough Swamps to begin with. Not to mention that it makes Wasteland a bit more useful against you.
Based on that information, my deck currently looks like this:
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Tombstalker
2 Nether Spirit
4 Duress
4 Extirpate
4 Innocent Blood
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
3 Chimeric Idol
3 Crucible of Worlds
Take that information for what you think it's worth.
U Merfolk
UGW Bant
BGW Rock
WUB Stoneblade
RGW Zoo
i can get on board w/ this, i don't think cards like the rack and cursed scroll should be discredited. they are just better in different versions of pox. they may only do a few damage a turn, but that damage adds up. one thing to point out about the rack is multiple copies in play can be absolutely devastating. i don't play the rack in my build, but that's not to say it shouldn't be played in pox.
i wouldn't say there were zero issues. it's not uncommon for your opponent to have little no permanents, especially creatures. it would be nice to be able to swing in with both of them then. i can see your friend's point on this one, and having them both in the main could work out if you used them as he stated. i'm running both right now and haven't had a huge problem w/ it, but there have been those times where one has hindered the other.
i disagree... somewhat. i can say that funeral charm is not necessary. i can also say that extirpate is a fine replacement. as you said, stripping their deck of vital finishers or other tech can be absolutely brutal. i, however, disagree that dark ritual should ever be run in any pox build. haunting echoes is not an early game card. it can be a devastating, game winning card, but it's not designed to come out on turn three. the only time i can see that being warranted would be against something like dredge. and if it's really that good against dredge on turn three, you've probably already lost on turn two.
again i disagree... tangle wire can be absolutely amazing. i see your friend's point, but the thing he should take notice of is the fact that pox decks tend to run artifacts that can be tapped to the tangle wire. i can understand not running the card as it's not a must have, but it's power against certain decks and in certain games should not be understated. it's a very annoying card to see on the other side of the table.
the fact that you have crucible of worlds makes the wasteland argument obsolete. also the fact that you're playing a deck like pox makes the wasteland argument obsolete. and lastly, the fact that you're running something like 23-25 lands makes the wasteland argument obsolete. with crucible out, i doubt they'll sacrifice there land for no real benefit. also they are probably running low on resources, especially lands, (if your deck is working, that is) so the likelihood of them sacrificing the wasteland to kill an urborg, tomb of yawgmonth isn't very high. and even if they do this on, let's say, turn 2, you're running enough lands in your deck that it shouldn't be hard for you to recover. especially if you then break out a turn four pox on them. they'll wish they had saved that wasteland then.
the way you're build looks there, i'd say take out the rituals to put the 3 urborg and the 1 volrath's stronghold back in. never understimate the power of a high land count in a pox deck. 23-25 is correct.
calibretto
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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I don't understand how people keep trying to say Tangle Wire isn't amazing.
When you play Tangle wire you have to understand that you're opponent has to tap, 4, 3, 2, 1 permenants while you as the pox player only have to tap 2, 1 permenants. This is due to strategicly removing fade counters on the stack and being able to tap tangle wire to itself. Because you're playing the Tangle Wire you play it when it is of maximum benefit to you (Usually as early as possible), where as your opponents strategy will never benifit from you playing it.
Playing the card early basically gives you a Time Walk, playing it late after a Pox should also give you a Time Walk effect. The only deck that uses this card better is Stax
Yeah I don't like haunting echoes in pox that much sure if it resolves against some decks it is really good but you have to commit 5 mana to it, which can net a big gain or huge loss if they fow it or counter it in some way you are likely tapped out after playing it due to the effect pox and smallpox has on your landbase.
Yeah wasteland against urborg, tomb of yawgmoth is meaningless when you run crucible and you have about 24 lands in your deck anyways because you want to consistently hit mana with pox; getting manascrewed means you are having a) really bad topdecks b) you kept a questionable hand or c) you're playing too few lands in your deck
Currently Playing:
Retired
I don't disagree with you. Merely personal preference, that's all.
He also mentioned that either one attacks pretty well in tandem with Nether Spirit for a bit more damage at once compared to The Rack or Cursed Scroll.
I was quite surprised that Extirpate had not been mentioned in this thread yet. From what I interpreted, Haunting Echoes is not a main deck thing, but rather something in sideboard to go balls to the wall against a combo deck. I agree that it's likely to be a very risky if it doesn't go off, but some chance is better than no chance against a fast combo anyway.
U Merfolk
UGW Bant
BGW Rock
WUB Stoneblade
RGW Zoo
I achieved close to a 50% win ratio this evening, which I thought was doing pretty OK for someone with no practical experience using Pox. Surprisingly, things like when to play Smallpox or Pox started making more sense once I was in the game. However, I'm still not that proficient at making that decision, and at the same time, I'm pretty bad at choosing what to use Extirpate on.
In any case, I found Pox a fun challenge to use, since most of the time, you are on a knife edge.
U Merfolk
UGW Bant
BGW Rock
WUB Stoneblade
RGW Zoo
calibretto
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Also whoever had the borderposts in a mono black build...why not splash red for blightning or maybe even thought hemorrhage (almost strictly for the damage part)
I like extirpate in pox; removes life from the loam from the game (although they do have burning wish unfortunately). Extirpate is just awesome against aggro loam which is one of our toughest matchups as stated in the OP
Heck I'm going to try the borderposts in my deck I'll have to tweak some stuff though and it may not be suited seeing as how you have to return a basic land to your hand, something my deck doesn't run a lot of.
Currently Playing:
Retired
First thing was Ninja Fish, then Death and Taxes. Probably not the most indicative matchups, but I thought the deck did well enough for a first showing.
U Merfolk
UGW Bant
BGW Rock
WUB Stoneblade
RGW Zoo
@jwai: those are fine decks to test against. then again, any deck is a fine deck to test against. just keep playing your pox build. you'll start to see when the right time to cast pox is and how it differs when playing against different decks. i love this deck.
and also, i totally agree w/ barl on the subject of dark ritual. if you need ritual to help you recover and get something on the board after casting pox, you're not running enough lands. if you cast pox it should be hurting your opponent a lot more than it's hurting you. it should be a rare occasion that pox hinders you in any way.
calibretto
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Currently Playing:
Retired
I very much like them in the sideboard, however, especially after you have gathered intelligence on your opponent's deck archetype and focus.
So far, I have only done minimal testing with the :symb::symr: borderpost. It works rather nicely in a Crucible build with both Mox Diamonds and Retrace spells. However, it requires us to run much more basic lands than we would normally run in a build that abuses Crucible. Also, in these builds, we are presenting our opponents with several artifacts: Mox Diamond, Crucible, Borderpost, The Rack and/or Cursed Scroll, etc. While this is good versus opponents who sideboard in targeted artifact removal, as we force them to make choices, this is very bad against sideboard cards like Rebuild, Hurkyl's Recall, and Shattering Spree.
It is a tough call that I am still trying to make. If I can find any more useful cards to abuse a build of this style that requires us to dabble into red, it will be much easier to decide to include the borderposts. However, at this time, I can't find enough incentive to do so.
21 [ALA] Swamp (1)
// Creatures
2 [MM] Nether Spirit
3 [FUT] Tombstalker
// Spells
4 [CST] Dark Ritual
4 [TSB] Funeral Charm
4 [7E] Duress
4 [AT] Hymn to Tourach
4 [TSP] Smallpox
4 [5E] Pox
4 [4E] The Rack
2 [TSP] Phyrexian Totem
4 [TE] Diabolic Edict
Hey. I'm thinking of making this budget version. This was pretty much given to me on a differnet thread, but i'd love further thoughts on it. Are rituals bad? Because i do feel that combo will become even tougher w/out rituals.
Mainly, i'm wondering about
Chimeric Idol vs Phyrexian Totem: Which do you guys think is better? (for my build)
Ritual: Should i replace ritual with say 1-2 more land a few more spells?
But ofc beyond those any tips are welcome
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios!
I couldn't test the Funeral Charms, bacause I couldn't get them right in time, but that was the list I was playing:
13 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Tombstalker
2 Nether Spirit
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
4 Extirpate
3 Pox
1 Raven's Crime
2 Crucible of Worlds
SB///
4 Powder Keg
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Perish
I never felt that I needed the Rituals, it was an good idea to cut them.
I never saw the Raven's Crime so I couldn't say anything about it.
MB Extirpate was good against Fetchland Tendrils^^, and helped me in a game against Dreadstill, because I Extirpated his Stifle and he boarded the Trickbinds out.
so far
Necro
I don't think you'll have that hard of a time versus Combo with 8 T1 selective discard spells after sideboarding, in terms of whether or not to keep Dark Ritual in.
Interesting build, and I am surprised the maindecked Extirpates worked so well for you. Also, definite congratulations on taking 2nd place!!!!
In the games that you played, how often did you cast Extirpate game 1, and how often did that improve your situation?
even when the target is just a Force, it helps you to get your important spells through counters, and removed Swords helps that Tombstalker stays in play and kills the opponent.
I love them
17 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra's Factory
Creatures(6)
3 Nether Spirit
3 Tombstalker
4 Funeral Charm
Sorceries(22)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress
4 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Innocent Blood
1 Raven's Crime
1 Syphon Life
3 Tangle Wire
2 Crucible of Worlds
Edit: And I am trying to get a hold of the other non-basics, including Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, so please no one suggest those please.
3x Engineered Plague
2x Crucible of Worlds
2x Syphon Life
4x Tormod's Crypt
Hope that helps.
The rack is pretty bad. You're better off just hitting with nether spirit/stalker, so i'd favor more of them in the md.
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In most matches with my Crucible Pox list that I play, The Rack will end up doing at least 5 damage over the course of the game. That's 5 damage, often more, for :1mana:, but still, it depends entirely on the design of your deck.
I think your deck could take pretty good advantage of it, tweakedsynth. I'd try adding a 2nd Raven's Crime for it though, and 2-3x The Rack. It's stellar with Tangle Wire.
I just discovered this thread. I built a Pox deck but am running in a 5-way games (only) w/things like Syphon Soul, Subversion & Necropotence etc. Yeah..casual format.
The deck has always been rather hit or miss. You've given me a LOT of new tech to explore.
Just wanted to pop in and say thanks.
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