When I was last working with this deck, I said that the cards to make this deck successful did not yet exist. That was before Time Spiral. I think I have found a home for Mangara.
I am actually considering putting Mirror Gallery in a serious deck. My initial testing with this is through the roof. If you untap with Mangara and Karakas in play, it is very hard to lose. In games in which I have untapped with those cards plus Minamo, I have been unbeaten no matter what the board situation - including one game with a hoard of Goblins. One game I vialed in ManoWar to save Mangara. It was awesome. That said, the Goblins matchup could be difficult in the long run. Teferi has been very effective, but I am hoping for a 4-mana solution, so I can make better use of the vials.
So in short, the deck was nearly good enough before, but now it may just have enough synergy to become quite good. With so many legendary permanents, it probably needs something like a Divining Top and some more reliable shuffle effects, but it should be a creature if possible, and I am loath to alter any of the soft lock pieces.
It seems as though this deck almost NEEDS 1-2 Crystal Shard either in the maindeck or in the sideboard to protect your really good dudes and give your opponent tempo fits. Its great because of all the synergy with the CitP effects and Mangara especially. Imagine this: a vial set to 3 means a Man o War each turn for U. The only problem is its non-creature-ness, but with testing I will see if it is in fact worth it or not.
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Am I to understand that you have the following minicomboes?
1. Mangara + Karakas for repeated permanent removal
2. Hokori + Karakas for a one-sided Winter Orb
3. Augustine + Glowrider for the "taxes"
4. No significant game against Goblins or Threshold
This is the way it looks, if so, yoy really need a new apporach.
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You could really call this deck Karakas Abuse at this stage. That land wins games. Early on it makes Isamaru something like a Blinking Spirit. Against Goblins, Tivadar will end them if they can not keep Karakas out of the picture. And unless Goblins has white Eesha is unkillable as well. Mangara is, of course, very good with it having a similar effect on a lot of decks. Hokori's ability to be a Winter Orb is a lot better than I expected because it is easy to pull off. This, by the way is the reason I replaced the Wastelands with Ports. I played against Solidarity many, many times, and almost always won. There are just too many pertinent creatures for them to get past.
Threshold is a terrible matchup, though. And I don't know how to make it better.
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Heya, folks. This is the deck I have been tooling with most, so I have some updated information to add here. I am necroing this thread.
I really need help with this one.
I think that Isamaru and I design decks in a similar fashion, and so I find myself in a similar condition. I have really good synergy rippling throughout the deck. But I can not commit to a direction. As a result, I have a lot of cute interactions which are fun - even when you are losing - but which are a turn or two too slow for Legacy.
I currently have two versions. The first is nearly identical to the opening post. The second is an aggro version I have begun using.
Well, there it is. Not nearly as much fun, but it wins a bit more. The questions I need to address but can not yet answer are:
a. Is this particular incarnation any better than say, Angel Stompy?
b. Is this the best direction to take this concept?
c. Is it even worth getting out of Blue considering what is lost?
d. Can it win against the most common enemies?
I have gotten the mana curve under control quite a bit.
I think that this version sucks it down against storm combo unless I have a Chalice in the opening hand, though the Goblins matchup has been favorable in limited testing. But this was more or less true with the control version as well. Threshold has always been the wildcard, and is the matchup I am trying to improve the most here.
So I am asking for a couple of folks to give this a go and offer some recommendations. My available time is way down.
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
Isamaru, I have had my eye on those cards for quite some time, actually. If either of them were Legendary, they would be of enormous interest to me in this deck. However, I happen to think that they are both pretty good even without being as sleazable. Just their regular ability is good, but you can Parallax Wave them out in response to the trigger, which is my primary interest - pretty good against stuff like Nimble Mongoose and Umezawa's Jitte.
Still, I don't know that I have enough room for either in here.
BTW, I actually got a chance to play this past weekend. I used the aggro version and went
1-2 vs Monored Goblins (no Wasteland)
3-0 vs Affinity
3-0 vs an extended control deck using Vesuva, Cloudpost and Mindslaver
Goblins was at first a puzzlement to me. I really expected to do better. Tivadar coming in and out at instant speed over and over is just so punishing to their game. After some thought, and for the last match (which I won) I sideboarded better. I should also mention that in every game in which I drew Tivadar I dominated Goblins.
Affinity was a far better matchup than I expected. It turns out they don't really have a way around Mangara. And the creatures are big enough now that the pressure is always on. I doubt the matchup is really this good.
The control deck was not well-suited for Legacy play, so it is not a particularly accurate test.
What do you all think of the following plan:
alter the manabase to look like this...
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
2 Plains
1 Rishidan Port
3 Karakas
3 Flagstones of Trokair
With that change, I would certainly look into taking out some of the less effective cards like Tails and Kirtar for some Watchwolves and perhaps Captain Sisay or even Iwamori of the Open Fist.
Finn, what happened to Razor Golem? He was so good.
Anyway. I have been doing quite well with the monowhite build. I am going to stick with it for a while.
I am using 3 True Believer and those Razor Golems in the main.
Update:
Gobs, just over 50/50 - alot of games, didn't keep score
IGG won them all so far
43 Land 50/50 (1/1)
Thresh 50/50 (3/3)
Not great, but it is keeping up with established decks unlike most rogue decks. And it is getting better.
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Finn, can you post your most recent/refined/fixed versions of W, GW, and UW? I'd like to start thinking about trying them on MWS this weekend, and the first post doesn't look like the most recent version.
I can't make further suggestions until I try it for myself on MWS, and I think we'll have to take a look at PC's white rescue creatures and see if any help at all or not.
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While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
Yeah, you would be the man to test this out some. So far, I have only got a handful of games in. I would not be pursuing it if the deck didn't show promise. Stonecloaker is what I will be looking at. I think I am going to love this creature.
I did a good deal of testing this week. This is what I have.
Serra Avenger = awesome
Razor Golem = very good
Goblins matchup = pretty good
Spring Tide mathup = pretty good
Threshold matchup = decent - 3-4 matches w/sb
Not having a decent 2-drop FOR TURN 2 = crappy. I have begun using Silver Knight in the main.
There's a lot to be said for having bigger creatures than most Legacy decks.
Also, Tangle wire works surprisingly well. I didn't expect that.
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Kudzu, how do you always manage to play against the top decks? I always seem to have to play whatever I come up against. The only time I get a lot of Goblins and such is at Friday night tournaments.
Anyway, I finally got some experience against some Thresh-ish decks. I played a lot of games against two different offshoots. One was UGW and had Serra Avengers in the Werebear Spot. The other was UG with Aether Vials, Wastelands, and Troll Ascetics. the latter one was really not Threshold, but had a lot of the same defensive cards and the same basic strategy. I am happy to say that the results were very uplifting. I stomped the one with white, going 3-1, and edged the UG one at 3-2 in games, not matches.
I think I have finally got this deck in the right direction after a lot of false starts. Again, I have been using the mono-white build in the opening post. I look forward to comments; ESPECIALLY some good, hard criticism. This means you, Puzzle - keeping us honest for years.
a. Is this particular incarnation any better than say, Angel Stompy?
I don't think it really bears a direct comparison. Although both decks are mono-white aggro-control, they have almost opposite matchups. Where this deck's best matchups are combo and its difficult ones are aggro, Angel Stompy's very best matchups are aggro and its most difficult are combo.
In short, I don't think either is particularly better than the other; I think the choice to play either is going to be inherently meta-based.
I like this list a lot though. It's got a lot of synergy, it's fairly well focused, and seems to have reasonable answers to most things. I'll give the list some testing and let you know if I come up with anything useful. Nice work, man.
Thanks a lot, Zilla. I look forward to your analysis.
In the meantime, I have some test results to report.
1-2 versus the aggro version of Pikula with Descendant of Kiyomaro and STP. My wins were lightning fast. My opponent's wins were very slow and all revolved around me not having sufficient removal to keep his Dark Confidants out of play. This is something to consider. Sunlance? Ironically, this is the build I was pursuing and I scrapped it for lack of long-game effectiveness.
So I proxied up some Stonecloakers. I like the card a lot, but I do not think I would go to four. There are bound to be some times when you rip it from the top of the deck with no other creatures in hand or in play. And then it would suck hard.
Versus Goblins with STP, I had Tivadar out and a Serra Avenger. My opponent had a Ringleader, Matron, and Warchief with a bunch of Goblins in his hand. Tangle Wire was keeping us both tight on mana. And we were both low on life. I had vialed Tivadar out, but my opponent Wastelanded two Karakases. When he STP'd Tivadar, I saved him with the Stonecloaker, vialed him back into play to block, and my opponent scooped. That's what I am hoping to see a lot of.
However, Stonecloaker is a definite addition to the deck IMO. The timing of getting it in as surprise blocker AND responding to a targeted graveyard spell is never going to work all at once, but either is a stellar maneuver. I would cut the True Believers for the Stonecloakers.
Isamaru, did you get around to testing? What are your thoughts?
Zilla?
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I tested out the Stonecloakers alot more, and I am moving them up to 4. They are very good. Also, I think True Believer needs to remain in the deck somewhere as the combo matchup is the weakest one.
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Kudzu, I think that the Stonecloakers will be one of the defining cards of the deck. They are so good.
I think we need to keep the True Believers in the main for now. As it stands, they are the only reliable anti-combo cards in the main. I am figuring on Sphere of Resistance coming in to supplement the Glowriders on that front, but I just don't play against enough combo opponents to test this to my liking.
Love your tales. There are a lot of really good plays available to good players in here. I am a little concerned about the Goblin matchup though.
First of all, nice deck. I think you've done very well with it.
Secondly, I'm mainly a lurker but I decided to question why you dropped the Chrome Mox. I found them very helpful, especially during first turn to get that mana advantage for a first turn creature drop + Aether Vial or Sensei's Divining Top.
Isn't the goal trying to get out Hokori as fast as possible for the taxing aspect while trying to get the threat removal in 1 turn faster (Mangara/Swords)?
I'm mainly a lurker but I decided to question why you dropped the Chrome Mox. I found them very helpful, especially during first turn to get that mana advantage for a first turn creature drop + Aether Vial or Sensei's Divining Top.
Actually, the Mox came out before the deck went monowhite. I suppose it could go back in. I even like the fact that it would make the deck more aggressive. But I have three misgivings about it.
1. Most of the aggressive creatures could not be cast on turn one or two anyway since they need some sort of setup.
2. The deck has no real card advantage (except for Mangara shenanigans) to make up for the card loss.
3. It would have to occupy a spot currently filled with fetchlands. That menas fewer cards in the graveyard for Jotun Grunt and fewer shuffle effects for Divining Top.
Isn't the goal trying to get out Hokori as fast as possible for the taxing aspect while trying to get the threat removal in 1 turn faster (Mangara/Swords)?
Umm, I don't know. It sounds bad, but I can't be certain. I can say that I have not been playing that way, though.
The way I see it, the deck benefits greatly from being able to nimbly shift gears entirely with a single card like Hokori or Mangara entering play. Their presence has some huge effects. Opponents are forced to either hold their removal cards until one of them enters play (getting pounded all the while) or use up their removal on the other creatures and chance getting caught with their pants down.
I know you guys were considering adding force spike, but would Mana Tithe be better? It stays in white, deprives them of more mana, and is even more of a suprise. Thoughts?
Hey all. I recently joined MTGS for the sole purpose of pursuing this deck. I played UGR and UGW Gro as well as Psychatog in my area's tournaments. But now I am hooked on this deck. I only have 3 Karakases, but I took this thing for two weeks in a row, and I took second and first. OK, so there were only 11 and 13 of us, but you know I am going back tomorrow night for a third try.
The number one thing I was going to suggest was to try Mana Tithe in the Divining Top slot, but it seems that someone beat me to it. So the second thing I wanted to say is that I think this deck could benefit a lot from haste. What do you think of Lightning Greaves?
Cool, another Finn deck that will take weeks of practice just to understand. I will be building this on workstation before the end of the day. I have a tournament tonight
Hey, maybe we should all report our results if there are a few people taking this deck to tourneys this weekend.
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I don't hate working out. I hate working. I'm actually fine with the out.
Yeah, cool. But it is missing something. I have gotten around to some good testing, and I am on the fence about whether or not this decks warrants pursuit.
This weekend, I did quite well against Threshold and Deadguy Ale, but Goblins beat me 2 out of 3, and I had some very close games against decks I should have beaten handily. I am updating the opening post with these matches.
Finn, don't get discouraged. I really like this deck and I think it has potential. I think there was another thread on this on The Source. Someone was really interested in substituting the Tops for Weathered Wayfarer.
I also considered adding one or 2 Secluded Steppe or Drifting Meadow for cycling in place of the fetch lands. Any more than 2 would hurt us since it comes into play tapped. We could cycle these for card drawing and Grunt food.
Another thing I was considering was dropping the Stonecloakers down to three. They are definitely good but having too many also hurts you. Also maybe dropping the Jotun Grunts down to two. Maybe I suck at shuffling but I constantly have opening hand Jotun Grunts and Stonecloakers. These are dead cards when you are that early in the game. I thought about substituting 2 Silver Knights in place of 1 Grunt/1 Cloaker. That would give me a good turn 2 drop with first strike to keep most threats at bay and keeping red threats back (such as Lightning Bolt/Helix).
When I was last working with this deck, I said that the cards to make this deck successful did not yet exist. That was before Time Spiral. I think I have found a home for Mangara.
4 Flooded Strand
2 Tundra
3 Island
2 Plains
2 Karakas
2 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
4 Wasteland
4 Court Hussar
4 Cloud of Faeires
Offense
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
Tax Collectors
4 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
4 Glowrider
3 Hokori, Dust Drinker
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Mangara of Corondor
4 Man-o-War
Artifact Mana Sources
4 Aether Vial
3 Chrome Mox
I am actually considering putting Mirror Gallery in a serious deck. My initial testing with this is through the roof. If you untap with Mangara and Karakas in play, it is very hard to lose. In games in which I have untapped with those cards plus Minamo, I have been unbeaten no matter what the board situation - including one game with a hoard of Goblins. One game I vialed in ManoWar to save Mangara. It was awesome. That said, the Goblins matchup could be difficult in the long run. Teferi has been very effective, but I am hoping for a 4-mana solution, so I can make better use of the vials.
So in short, the deck was nearly good enough before, but now it may just have enough synergy to become quite good. With so many legendary permanents, it probably needs something like a Divining Top and some more reliable shuffle effects, but it should be a creature if possible, and I am loath to alter any of the soft lock pieces.
Any suggestions?
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"Girls are like Voltron: the more you stick together, the better it gets." SE
1. Mangara + Karakas for repeated permanent removal
2. Hokori + Karakas for a one-sided Winter Orb
3. Augustine + Glowrider for the "taxes"
4. No significant game against Goblins or Threshold
This is the way it looks, if so, yoy really need a new apporach.
I spruced this number up and found it has a lot of good matchups.
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
2 Island
2 Plains
4 Karakas
2 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
4 Rishidan Port
Creatures
4 Man-o-War
4 Glowrider
4 Court Hussar
4 Mangara of Corondor
4 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
3 Hokori, Dust Drinker
2 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
2 Commander Eesha
Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Aether Vial
Other
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Tivadar of Thorn
4 Meddling Mage
4 Jotun Grunt
2 Disenchant
2 Tormod's Crypt
Threshold is a terrible matchup, though. And I don't know how to make it better.
I really need help with this one.
I think that Isamaru and I design decks in a similar fashion, and so I find myself in a similar condition. I have really good synergy rippling throughout the deck. But I can not commit to a direction. As a result, I have a lot of cute interactions which are fun - even when you are losing - but which are a turn or two too slow for Legacy.
I currently have two versions. The first is nearly identical to the opening post. The second is an aggro version I have begun using.
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Serra Avenger
2 Eight-and-a-half-Tails
2 Lieutenant Kirtar
4 Mangara of Corondor
3 Hokori, Dust Drinker
1 Commander Eesha
Other Spells (15)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Tangle Wire
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Karakas
4 Rishidan Port
5 Plains
3 Tivadar of Thorn
4 Glowrider
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Disenchant
1 Jotun Grunt
Well, there it is. Not nearly as much fun, but it wins a bit more. The questions I need to address but can not yet answer are:
a. Is this particular incarnation any better than say, Angel Stompy?
b. Is this the best direction to take this concept?
c. Is it even worth getting out of Blue considering what is lost?
d. Can it win against the most common enemies?
I have gotten the mana curve under control quite a bit.
I think that this version sucks it down against storm combo unless I have a Chalice in the opening hand, though the Goblins matchup has been favorable in limited testing. But this was more or less true with the control version as well. Threshold has always been the wildcard, and is the matchup I am trying to improve the most here.
So I am asking for a couple of folks to give this a go and offer some recommendations. My available time is way down.
I think you need to put blue back in, though. My initial thoughts on the above list were that it looks weak or clunky.
EDIT: Found another card you might want to think about (found it on random card) Loyal Sentry.
EDIT: A second version of the card is Alaborn Zealot.
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Still, I don't know that I have enough room for either in here.
BTW, I actually got a chance to play this past weekend. I used the aggro version and went
1-2 vs Monored Goblins (no Wasteland)
3-0 vs Affinity
3-0 vs an extended control deck using Vesuva, Cloudpost and Mindslaver
Goblins was at first a puzzlement to me. I really expected to do better. Tivadar coming in and out at instant speed over and over is just so punishing to their game. After some thought, and for the last match (which I won) I sideboarded better. I should also mention that in every game in which I drew Tivadar I dominated Goblins.
Affinity was a far better matchup than I expected. It turns out they don't really have a way around Mangara. And the creatures are big enough now that the pressure is always on. I doubt the matchup is really this good.
The control deck was not well-suited for Legacy play, so it is not a particularly accurate test.
What do you all think of the following plan:
alter the manabase to look like this...
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
2 Plains
1 Rishidan Port
3 Karakas
3 Flagstones of Trokair
...and include 4 Crop Rotations. I particularly like the interaction with Flagstones of Trokair.
With that change, I would certainly look into taking out some of the less effective cards like Tails and Kirtar for some Watchwolves and perhaps Captain Sisay or even Iwamori of the Open Fist.
Anyway. I have been doing quite well with the monowhite build. I am going to stick with it for a while.
I am using 3 True Believer and those Razor Golems in the main.
Update:
Gobs, just over 50/50 - alot of games, didn't keep score
IGG won them all so far
43 Land 50/50 (1/1)
Thresh 50/50 (3/3)
Not great, but it is keeping up with established decks unlike most rogue decks. And it is getting better.
I can't make further suggestions until I try it for myself on MWS, and I think we'll have to take a look at PC's white rescue creatures and see if any help at all or not.
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Anyway, the front page is updated.
Serra Avenger = awesome
Razor Golem = very good
Goblins matchup = pretty good
Spring Tide mathup = pretty good
Threshold matchup = decent - 3-4 matches w/sb
Not having a decent 2-drop FOR TURN 2 = crappy. I have begun using Silver Knight in the main.
There's a lot to be said for having bigger creatures than most Legacy decks.
Also, Tangle wire works surprisingly well. I didn't expect that.
Anyway, I finally got some experience against some Thresh-ish decks. I played a lot of games against two different offshoots. One was UGW and had Serra Avengers in the Werebear Spot. The other was UG with Aether Vials, Wastelands, and Troll Ascetics. the latter one was really not Threshold, but had a lot of the same defensive cards and the same basic strategy. I am happy to say that the results were very uplifting. I stomped the one with white, going 3-1, and edged the UG one at 3-2 in games, not matches.
I think I have finally got this deck in the right direction after a lot of false starts. Again, I have been using the mono-white build in the opening post. I look forward to comments; ESPECIALLY some good, hard criticism. This means you, Puzzle - keeping us honest for years.
I don't think it really bears a direct comparison. Although both decks are mono-white aggro-control, they have almost opposite matchups. Where this deck's best matchups are combo and its difficult ones are aggro, Angel Stompy's very best matchups are aggro and its most difficult are combo.
In short, I don't think either is particularly better than the other; I think the choice to play either is going to be inherently meta-based.
I like this list a lot though. It's got a lot of synergy, it's fairly well focused, and seems to have reasonable answers to most things. I'll give the list some testing and let you know if I come up with anything useful. Nice work, man.
In the meantime, I have some test results to report.
1-2 versus the aggro version of Pikula with Descendant of Kiyomaro and STP. My wins were lightning fast. My opponent's wins were very slow and all revolved around me not having sufficient removal to keep his Dark Confidants out of play. This is something to consider. Sunlance? Ironically, this is the build I was pursuing and I scrapped it for lack of long-game effectiveness.
Versus Goblins with STP, I had Tivadar out and a Serra Avenger. My opponent had a Ringleader, Matron, and Warchief with a bunch of Goblins in his hand. Tangle Wire was keeping us both tight on mana. And we were both low on life. I had vialed Tivadar out, but my opponent Wastelanded two Karakases. When he STP'd Tivadar, I saved him with the Stonecloaker, vialed him back into play to block, and my opponent scooped. That's what I am hoping to see a lot of.
However, Stonecloaker is a definite addition to the deck IMO. The timing of getting it in as surprise blocker AND responding to a targeted graveyard spell is never going to work all at once, but either is a stellar maneuver. I would cut the True Believers for the Stonecloakers.
Isamaru, did you get around to testing? What are your thoughts?
Zilla?
I tested out the Stonecloakers alot more, and I am moving them up to 4. They are very good. Also, I think True Believer needs to remain in the deck somewhere as the combo matchup is the weakest one.
I think we need to keep the True Believers in the main for now. As it stands, they are the only reliable anti-combo cards in the main. I am figuring on Sphere of Resistance coming in to supplement the Glowriders on that front, but I just don't play against enough combo opponents to test this to my liking.
Love your tales. There are a lot of really good plays available to good players in here. I am a little concerned about the Goblin matchup though.
Secondly, I'm mainly a lurker but I decided to question why you dropped the Chrome Mox. I found them very helpful, especially during first turn to get that mana advantage for a first turn creature drop + Aether Vial or Sensei's Divining Top.
Isn't the goal trying to get out Hokori as fast as possible for the taxing aspect while trying to get the threat removal in 1 turn faster (Mangara/Swords)?
Actually, the Mox came out before the deck went monowhite. I suppose it could go back in. I even like the fact that it would make the deck more aggressive. But I have three misgivings about it.
1. Most of the aggressive creatures could not be cast on turn one or two anyway since they need some sort of setup.
2. The deck has no real card advantage (except for Mangara shenanigans) to make up for the card loss.
3. It would have to occupy a spot currently filled with fetchlands. That menas fewer cards in the graveyard for Jotun Grunt and fewer shuffle effects for Divining Top.
Umm, I don't know. It sounds bad, but I can't be certain. I can say that I have not been playing that way, though.
The way I see it, the deck benefits greatly from being able to nimbly shift gears entirely with a single card like Hokori or Mangara entering play. Their presence has some huge effects. Opponents are forced to either hold their removal cards until one of them enters play (getting pounded all the while) or use up their removal on the other creatures and chance getting caught with their pants down.
That is the way I have been playing it.
The number one thing I was going to suggest was to try Mana Tithe in the Divining Top slot, but it seems that someone beat me to it. So the second thing I wanted to say is that I think this deck could benefit a lot from haste. What do you think of Lightning Greaves?
Hey, maybe we should all report our results if there are a few people taking this deck to tourneys this weekend.
This weekend, I did quite well against Threshold and Deadguy Ale, but Goblins beat me 2 out of 3, and I had some very close games against decks I should have beaten handily. I am updating the opening post with these matches.
I also considered adding one or 2 Secluded Steppe or Drifting Meadow for cycling in place of the fetch lands. Any more than 2 would hurt us since it comes into play tapped. We could cycle these for card drawing and Grunt food.
Another thing I was considering was dropping the Stonecloakers down to three. They are definitely good but having too many also hurts you. Also maybe dropping the Jotun Grunts down to two. Maybe I suck at shuffling but I constantly have opening hand Jotun Grunts and Stonecloakers. These are dead cards when you are that early in the game. I thought about substituting 2 Silver Knights in place of 1 Grunt/1 Cloaker. That would give me a good turn 2 drop with first strike to keep most threats at bay and keeping red threats back (such as Lightning Bolt/Helix).