MTG Salvation

I'm trying to build a budget combo deck (it will probably end up rogue, no doubt).

I'm trying out a deck like this, similar to the eggs combo, however not focusing on second sunrise as a well timed counterspell will screw you.



This deck probably instantly dies to silence/stifle/trickbind/chant and maybe even CotV/3sphere.

Of course, you can't compare it to ANT or TEPS. I'm just trying for an idea where I can pull the combo off asap, similar to kobolds, yet keeping the deck competitive (and not becoming ANT or TEPS).

Ideas anyone?

Why not throw in Disciple of the Vault just for the fun of it? Every egg you cycle through will damage your opponent so you won't need to get your storm count as high for tendrils.

Quote from phrygianshredder

Why not throw in Disciple of the Vault just for the fun of it? Every egg you cycle through will damage your opponent so you won't need to get your storm count as high for tendrils.

I agree, he has alot of sacrifice artifacts, Disciple should replace Brain Freeze and maybe SSG. I was going to say Meditate but that becomes too strong in this deck with Helms in play.

I would also skip the Meditates for Ad Nauseam. Draw 8-10 cards means you win (I run something very similar here when i'm bored :P)

Regarding the disciples, wouldn't that be a weaker win con? Brain freeze, can be used in the mirror with other combo decks, i.e. grapeshot elves, can be only stopped by stifle/trickbind, and a storm spell one after another would boost each other won't it? Though disciple may allow you to kill your opponent fast too, might try swapping brain freeze for them, though disciple could get countered/removed more easily too.

With Meditate and Ad Nauseam in the pool, would these additions be useful, though I'm not sure how to fit them in yet?

Maybe cut meditate to 2, and maybe removing Night's Whisper and Thoughtcast?

• 1 Ad Nauseam
  
• 1 Ill-Gotten Gains
  
• 1 Tendrils of Agony
  
• 4 Brainstorm
  
• 3 Ponder
  
• 3 Infernal Tutor
  
• 2 Mystical Tutor
  
• 3-4 Pact of Negation

With quite a few tutors, I can run singletons of 1x Tendrils and 1x Brain Freeze.

Quote from Practical Joke

Put those changes next to an ANT list and it's near identical.

I like the eggs idea but I think you would want to run a heavier card draw than just meditate. Just to be heard with these weaknesses the deck has it wins from aggro decks, but dies to everything that plays FoW or stifle.

What about etherium sculptor? It might cost 2 mana, but it makes it much easier to continue with fewer mana.
(you could indeed disciple or ravager in SB for beatdown when you suffer a lot of counterspells.)

I know that in fact, not only FoW, Chants, Silence, Stifle, Chalice and Trinisphere, this like a rogue budget deck =)

One of my issues with disciple is that MD, when you draw into it, it somehow increases the chance of you fizzling. As for heavier card draw what do you recommend?

I'm considering those cards, because including the deck list, i have the mysticals, 1 ad nauseam, 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder, 1 Doomsday, 4 Orim's Chant, 2 Abeyance, 1 Silence, 4 Disciples, 4 Ravager in the card pool for use. So trying to have one build around my card pool, keeping purchases to the minimum. Thus looking for some help, since the last combo deck I ever built was grapeshot elves.

Yea, come to think of it, it does become an ANT.

Why etherium sculptor when I have helm of awakening, or would replacing helm for sculptor be better?

Also, would Elsewhere Flask be good?

Given that you remove Vault of Whispers, would it be more harder to get BB out?

BTW Ancient Tomb vs City of Traitors which is better?

As for removal of brainfreeze, would this mean I'm still running 2 Tendrils? Or 1 Tendrils + 1 Brain Freeze (blue seems easier to get than black, and I think you should know we both run extract in our SB, it also helps against mirror matches).

Currently this is how mine looks like:



Btw, would doomsday fit in this deck or is BBBtoo much to cast?

Quote from Practical Joke

Doomsday will hardly give you a win, ill-gotten gains does that for you already.

Double BB shouldn't be too hard with 4 petals, 4 rituals, 4 cabal rituals and all the mana fixing that the eggs/stars do.

triple black is no fun, but it shouldn't be much harder. If you already get triple black but means that you'll be winning most likely.

but I don't think it matters much concerning the lands. 2 colorless for 2 damage is fine since you'll win early on already.

I'm not sure if I want knowledge or 4 more eggs, I think playtesting it should do that trick.

Give results
(I like the idea and might casual it up, but I'll have to order all the eggs and stars )

I was thinking along the lines of the old doomsday ANT.

I'm also wondering whether the 8 rituals because in the opening hand, I can't cast them until I get an egg/petal. Have to playtest more.

Egg vs Knowledge, egg might end up taking the slot, like I said previously
Elsewhere Flask might be also a contender in the slot, however, in that case, I might be running basics instead of artifact lands. Maybe even comboing with ghost quarters to thin out the deck, as a land draw is a dead draw. If not, probably glimmervoid/city of brass instead of basic lands.

I'm also considering a singleton serum powder to give an added mulligan just in case.

Also 1-2x cunning wish could be included in the deck over my singleton brain freeze to grab the brain freeze from the gy or wipe away for some solutions.

The only deck I play tested was BW pox, which was kinda like who screw who first, but normally i got to combo off before he made life to difficult.

EDIT:

• Tested serum powder it didn't work out well for me.
• Tested cunning wish the issue that I had was, when I got locked down, it's usually by the time you can get the Wish out, it was too slow.

Now having this issue of the 3 cards:-

• Accumulated Knowledge
Pros:
Helps you to draw past trash/lands
Cons:
Costs U (with helm) but doesn't return you the mana.


• Elsewhere Flask
Pros:
Free Draw 0 (with Helm), CA+1
Cons:
Second Ability doesn't do anything


• Egg
Pros:
2 (with helm), returns you the mana, effectively a Manamorphose
Cons:
CA+1 only, might not be able to draw thru the deck effectively.

Okay, empty the warrens are much better than brain freeze, but i feel it's easier to get mana screwed and not be able to cast warrens, any thoughts? There's also an option of Storm Entity, though both have the red mana problem.

Also I have having issues where getting that Tendrils in hand seems to be tough, so wondering whether inclusions of tutors is better (but i never managed to get my hand empty to use infernal tutor as I don't run LED). Maybe 1-2 Rhystic Tutor

Comparing the 3 cards above, elsewhere flask is more ineffective compared to either during playtest. I tried accumulated knowledge but somehow it fared poorly as I don't tend to get enough of them to draw it well somehow, and it eats my mana, I'm not sure if it's me or is my deck not shuffled well enough. I got better luck with the eggs where they are free manamorphoses, ponder/Ideas Unbound/Infernal Contract/Cruel Bargain might have better luck here.

I'm also considering of running fetch to thin the deck (either 3 fetch + 1 dual or 2 fetch + 2 duals), though it will exceed my budget and also I normally at most have 2 lands (one either a brass or tomb/vein) in play so I'm not sure about whether the thinning actually works.

I have tested against BW pox, Affinity, Dragon Stompy and Aggro Elves.

I have a good time with aggro builds as I am able to go off quite consistently (so far) on turn 2, though with luck I have managed to go off on turn 1, and with not so good luck, turn 3.

Stompy relies heavily on whether he manages to get chalice or 3sphere out before I go off.

Here is my newest deck list.

While I know your list is trying to do something similar to TES, I'm still kind of leery about it. I'll proxy it and test it at some point later this week and give some thoughts.

On Storm Entity, it is great if your deck is built to handle it. Such as the following example

The deck Storm Entity is used in was built for the Peasant format. It's great especially when you drop it turn 1 with several goblin tokens or drop 2 of them and swing for 11 on turn 1. The ability to Storm out every 3 turns has also been incredible since it keeps pressure on the opponent. I still play it on occasion and it has been great fun. You can probably make several modifications to make this more competitive and not for the peasant format, but I haven't played with this list since Lorwyn was released.

Quote from MGC_player

While I know your list is trying to do something similar to TES, I'm still kind of leery about it. I'll proxy it and test it at some point later this week and give some thoughts.

On Storm Entity, it is great if your deck is built to handle it. Such as the following example

TokoboTenkai's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Mana: 16 4 Lotus Petal 7 Mountain 5 Island Rituals: 12 4 Rite of Flame 4 Desperate Ritual 4 Seething Song	Cantrips/Filter: 20 4 Ponder 4 Sleight of Hand 4 Serum Visions 4 Manamorphose 2 Peer Through Depths 2 Impulse	Storm cards: 12 4 Storm Entity 4 Empty the Warrens 4 Grapeshot

The deck Storm Entity is used in was built for the Peasant format. It's great especially when you drop it turn 1 with several goblin tokens or drop 2 of them and swing for 11 on turn 1. The ability to Storm out every 3 turns has also been incredible since it keeps pressure on the opponent. I still play it on occasion and it has been great fun. You can probably make several modifications to make this more competitive and not for the peasant format, but I haven't played with this list since Lorwyn was released.

This deck is build similar to TES/ANT however based on the Eggs combo from odyssey.

But in legacy when we have like tons of StP and PtE, storm entity somehow doesn't fit in well enough somehow.

Your deck is currently more similar to belcher.

I wanted to put empty the warrens but I had an issue that arised from hate from dredge, tokens, which are have problems with EE/powder keg and the like. To make it worse, Meddling Mage and extract hitting one win con, not talking about all the countertops, cotv that I would face.

My deck operates with lands that produce 2 mana/hitting rituals on turn 1, to cast like sculptor or helm to reduce all the eggs and like to zero, and making all the spells cheap. Still I have the issue of grabbing my win cons. Thus I'm considering to run tutors/wishes over the eggs, such as Rhystic Tutor (I don't run LED, since this is budget too, thus no infernal tutor) or more power draw effects (i'm currently running ad nauseam(my necropotence/yawgmoth's bargain) and Ill-gotten gains (my yawgmoth's will) as part of the engine). I'm currently looking at tutors more as it creates more chances to grab a win con in 60 cards to get the storm card I need in the remaining pile to decrease chances of fizzling. Though more bigger draws like stated in my prior post or ponder (deck/draw fixing) could help in place.

I'm now comparing sculptor to spirit guides, one gives me to increase chances of reducing mana, while the other give me the one shot mana boost I need.

why not cut black.....

use 4 helm 4 sculpter add in 4 trinket mage and top, up the brain freeze count to 4.

you can then combo off with 2 tops, or you could easly mill yourself out then use bauble's to generate infinate storm for a brain freeze....

Quote from LastManStanding

why not cut black.....

use 4 helm 4 sculpter add in 4 trinket mage and top, up the brain freeze count to 4.

you can then combo off with 2 tops, or you could easly mill yourself out then use bauble's to generate infinate storm for a brain freeze....

I'll try it soon, though I preferred tendrils/warrens because of the lesser storm count to win (in case I fizzle).

(If I ran mono blue, I might as well run Spring Tide)