And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
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This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
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Yes mistress...
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There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
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I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
eh, don't worry about the islands, AoK, they're all tainted - TAINTED!
The_valdrox, good work in the tournament, your heavy discard seems to look good. BUVileHorror should never lose to Salvagers - ever. 4x Pithing Needle sideboard and first game Drakes should steal the salvagers unless they somehow go off turn 2. Salgame has a bit more disruption, but still Wretch shines here...
hmmm isn't Paladin en-Vec better than Mystic Crusader? And about Perish... although it's a good thought, think about it: the thing is never going to resolve... err actually it might... grah I always get stuck in a Needled situation... maybe I should give Perish [or its portal counterpart] a try...
Is scrabbling claws EVER better than Wretch in a deck that isn't already using 4, uses a Vial set on 2, etc.?
Right, apokalypsekid9, and Echoing Truth is rarely even used on the tokens/drake.
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While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
I didn't have enough withered wretchs so I played scrabling claws instead. it removes effectivly and when you don't need it anymore you can draw a card. At worst it's
(2): remove 2 target cards in a graveyard from the game, draw a card.
Why do you run 4 despotic specter and 2 tel-jilad stylus? the stylus is tech against solidarity so why run less then the scepter?
here's my current list. It has more creatures and is alot faster even though I took the dark rituals out. I don't have a sideboard yet though:rolleyes: .
The stylus helps me against solidarity, the silver knights against goblins. I tried perish maindeck and it works wonders. Instead of having 4 despotic scepter and 2 Tel-Jilad Stylus wich makes a total of 6 I use 4 stylus and perish. perish is essentially a costy stylus/scepter against a non green deck but it's worth the cost since It totally owns threshold decks.
The hunted Llamasu is just another threat but it comes later in the game. I still keep the vial count at 2. By turn four I ussually have a stylus out so I play the Llamasu. It's drawback is sooo easier to get rid of and it's flying ability convinced me to include 2.
Oblation is really good even though it costs 3, wenever a hunted is going to die I can either oblation him or stylus him then play oblation. That way I keep in my deck were he's reachable. My opponent swordsing my hunted and I oblationing it happens quite often I The draw has often saved my ass. I can even use oblation to remove a nasty permanent for the win.
Scrabling Claw's first ability doesn't target - ew... anyway I understand you'd rather had run Wretch...
That list looks a lot better, not bad. BW actually seems viable without drake... for a while I tried UW because Lammasu was the only Hunted with a token count as low as horror (lower, actually - 1) so it worked with Scepter/Stylus - but hell, it works better with Oblation. Just didn't know why you had it in the sideboard before...
The reason I like your list is because it takes the Trinity into account very nicely. The strength of the deck has usually been the ability to power out a win vs. random-jank.
On the Stylus vs. Scepter thing, It was always 4 Stylus and 2 Scepter until Volrath's Stronghold went in. Then a Drake-take-every-turn and other considerations made the proportions switch, plus the graveyard is important when stealing creatures that care about threshold, etc. Just random little uses that make them different. The Stylus is better in BW as theres no Drake or Stronghold (though there really should be even without Infiltrator). You may think Stylus is good vs. a mill deck, but it proves different. They stroke of genius you if they are good (although at my store, he just freezed me and didnt force me to draw the one game he won) so Stylus won't help completely. Hymn to Tourach is still what I think is best vs. Solidarity.
Oh, and for a while it's actually been 3 Stylus 3 Scepter because of opposing Needles...
BW Loses being able to tutor for answers, but it picks up resiliency vs. the Trinity with White's pro-red creatures, etc. (even though Sea Sprite exists, it's not as good)... and all of White's efficient two-drops as well.
I'm going to test your list, The_valdrox, because polar bears are BW, and because it incorporates a lot of the white stuff I wish I had realized would be better in BW when I was trying out UW... thanks for slapping me into understanding
EDIT: Does Vindicate have a place in the sideboard or should we use Disenchant?
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
EDIT: Does Vindicate have a place in the sideboard or should we use Disenchant?
Depends of the use. I would prefer disenchant because of it's instant speed. When an oponent plays a needle, the best time to wreck it is usually, well instantly. If you'd decide to play land D like sinkhole and wastelands I'd go with vindicate. I've checked on the gatherer for whitecreatures and got these somewhat playable cards: stoic champion, true believer, warrior en-kor, daru spiritualist, Samurai of the pale curtain, eight and a half tales(for changing horror into white lol. No seriously instant speed protection for the horror could be good) wall of nets (fine token remover even though it costs 3), hokori, dust drinker(a fine lock with a vial out, then you can just play discard spells).
Edit: my current decklist is the same as the one posted above exept I took the Llamasus out and a withered wretch out for 3 Eight-and-a-half-tails. My reason: I kept the Llamasus in because they were another big threat but by adding the Eight-and-a-half-tails I ensure my main threat(hunted horror).
Edit: for pithing needles and other artifacts/enchantments is Capashen unicorn too slow? I like it for it can chomp block and be vialled out easily and can also be brought back via volraths stronghold(recuring disenchants are nice). It's the only disenchant creature out there for 2.
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
Depends of the use. I would prefer disenchant because of it's instant speed. When an oponent plays a needle, the best time to wreck it is usually, well instantly.
I've checked on the gatherer for whitecreatures and got these somewhat playable cards: stoic champion, true believer, warrior en-kor, daru spiritualist, Samurai of the pale curtain, eight and a half tales(for changing horror into white lol. No seriously instant speed protection for the horror could be good) wall of nets (fine token remover even though it costs 3), hokori, dust drinker(a fine lock with a vial out, then you can just play discard spells).
Edit: my current decklist is the same as the one posted above exept I took the Llamasus out and a withered wretch out for 3 Eight-and-a-half-tails. My reason: I kept the Llamasus in because they were another big threat but by adding the Eight-and-a-half-tails I ensure my main threat(hunted horror).
even if you are going b/w, i dont think that double white creatures are the way to go. i think that 1 white in the cost should be the most there is. i still like B/u/w, maybe move mage to sb, and md the hymns. then bring in the mage like extra pithing needles that also stop instants/sorceries, or harmful non-activiated effects.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
even if you are going b/w, i dont think that double white creatures are the way to go. i think that 1 white in the cost should be the most there is. i still like B/u/w, maybe move mage to sb, and md the hymns. then bring in the mage like extra pithing needles that also stop instants/sorceries, or harmful non-activiated effects.
I bet you didn't try my deck yet:rolleyes: . The double white mana creatures in my deck makes it so much stronger. Silver knight can often stop goblin in its tracks and I can't immagine the deck without them. A pithing needle won't do anything to stop them and nor will a meddling mage do something against turn one lackeys. They are also very usefull against threshold for their first strike. 2 silver knights on the board often scares the threshold player enough to pass the attack phase.
I tried the other cards I named on the post but none but one were worth it. That card is eight-and-a-half-tails. When I play I am constantly wishing to draw it. From Saving my creatures to making my critters unblokable this card does everything. I even use it to make my horror become white making him apt to destroy the tokens. Its like the protective angel of the deck;) . I think you brought up the 2 white mana clause because you think theyre hard to cast, but hey, so is a medling mage in a three colored deck.
I'm gonna try volrath's stronhold and use try to find slots for capashen unicorn Maindeck. I'm tired of being needled and chaliced:p!
By the way after some testingon MW
The deck won 7 games out of 10 against threshold and 2 games to 0 against goblins(there either arn't much on mw or I'm unlucky:mad: ) 3 to 1 against elves(Perish's are often GGs). I played against one solidarity and I won Because he kept contering my spells with force of will and had to remove his combo pieces to pay the cost. He wasn't a very good player. I went lost 3 to 0 against a wierd 3 colored madness deck using anger. The more the colors the harder it is for my deck to win.
Then theres landstill. These games are long and anoying. The only way I can win is with a eight-and-a-half-tails lategame. I can't play him early because I don't have the mana. But when I play him I don't dare play something from my hand. Once he's in play it's vial a horror and protect time. At that point A Nevinyrral's Disk often hits the table. I win the game when he doesn't have one. I won 1 and lost 2 games against landstill.
Edit: you're right isamaru. Its still strong. I win most of my games because of him.
Good trick with 8.5 to override the pro black of the Centaurs, seems like a very good inclusion, of course. It's impossible to stop a wasteland, however, as the card isnt in play when it puts its ability on the stack, so you can't make it white. You'd have to do it every turn during their upkeep or something, and then they can just sac it in response...
When I get a chance, I'll post the list I was testing (my variations on your BW), but tonight I'm brining BU PumpKnights to the tournament...
Oh, and can't you Disenchant/Seal the disk the turn it comes in? I usually am able to find and resolve a pithing needle long before one becomes a problem... It's Akroma's Vengeance I'm really worried about.
You're sure Capashen Unicorn's better than Kami of Ancient Law / Ronom Unicorn? All can be Needled though...
The Strength of 8.5 is vialing it in in response to a spell targetting a permanent you control and countering it for 2W Or influencing combat in a rude way...
BW is a viable variation, but you sadly lose Gilded Drake, making Scepter/Stylus less important...
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
BW is a viable variation, but you sadly lose Gilded Drake, making Scepter/Stylus less important...
Really? I think that it makes Scepter/Stylus more important. Sure WB has SoP, but it the only constent removal of self contoling perments is Scepter/Stylus.
So there are three go versions to the deck (Like land still) BW, UB, UBw.
Yesterday I wanted to make a good Ubw deck and this what I came up with.
Really? I think that it makes Scepter/Stylus more important. Sure WB has SoP, but it the only constent removal of self contoling perments is Scepter/Stylus.
Isamaru is using the scepter/stronhold/drake combo. Without the drakes the scepter is less important.
That and oblation and eight-and-a-half-tails wich basicly eliminates the drawback. Twin Silver knights can tag team to destroy loads of creatures. I really dislike using the S/S as they practicly only help 4-8 creatures and then sit there and stare at the sky untapped. I really never have any problem to rid the tokens.
I am even considering dropping one stylus and something else for an equipment of some sort.
The wb version of the deck lacks draw. Dark confidant doesn't suffice. I was thinking Sword of fire and ice but it probably costs to much. the 2 damage could rid loads of critters and the draw, I can't describe how usefull it would be.
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It takes 2 Akromas to bring a polar bear down.
P.S. Polar bears are :symwb:! double P.S. IT'S THE ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN OF ULTIMATE DESTINY. SO WATCH IT!
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The original poster suggested that it would be tournament-worthy. That has little, if anything, to do with fun.
I was very happy with the deck today, it performed the best it's done so far, and I'm happy with the sideboard and mainboard. The pro white knights haven't dissapointed me yet.
We almost didn't have enough players to play an 8 man tournament, but we got enough and it was sanctioned. I was going to play UG Madness, but lent someone my dual lands, wastelands, FoW, Wonder, etc. so they could play it, and I really wanted to give UB Horror with the Knights another shot after last week's dissapointment, even though everyone sort of expects it now.
Round 1 - Jeff - UG Madness
I was somewhat worried to get faced up as I haven't tested this often and would have been angry if I lost to my own cards... egh
Game 1: Opening hand is 3 land, 2 Horror, Stylus, Vial. I resolve everything and win. I topdeck some bounce to stop pesky mongrels, etc.
Game 2: He leaves mana opent he first few turns and counters a Dark Confidant, but an earlier Wretch got through. I played around the counterspells and beat in with Wretch. When he left mana open for counters, I played decoy spells, small spells, or just wretched his yard. Eventually I drake a Mongrel, but he boarded in Echoing Truth and gets em both back. It doesn't end up mattering because a Horror finishes him off. "How many of those are in your deck - yikes!"
Round 2 - Aaron Parks - UW Fish
After playing the games I realized he took out red - YAY - I did however, during the first game see him drop a turn 2 Kataki (mainboard) vs. Affinity... hahaha that's just rude. I complain for a while about how he hates me and he says he has trouble with my deck so he has to board a lot for it.
Game 1: I get a first turn Vial, but he drops Kataki. I pay the upkeep, then drop a 2nd land and Duress, taking an Echoing Truth over a Force of Will. He apparently topdecks a standstill as he plays Cloud of Faeries then the Standstill... ouch... I pay the upkeep and put the 2nd counter on, don't break the standstill... He attacks and I put Knight of Stromgald into play and block the Kataki and I give it first strike, not realizing pro-white means it doesn't even matter... oh well. He ends up having to break his own Standstill later in the game because Vial and the Knight keep me on top. I get low on life, but am able to win by draking his flying men once when he swings with a Jitte on one, and another (transmuted for it, then vialed out) so that he can't block. I smashed one of my Confidants end of turn so I wouldn't die, but still swing in for enough once the blockers are cleared.
Game 2: He drops a first turn Needle on Vial, but my hand has Stylus, Confidant, Horror, Needle, and land. I pretend it hurts me (as it normally would hurt a lot) and then duress him. I forget but I get a turn 2-3 Confidant, and have to keep getting hit from Ninja. Turn 4, Jitte + Equip after he tapped out (no swords) to play Savannah Lions and a Flying Men. He blocks Confidant with Flying Men and I kill off the Ninja (one counter at a time) because I'm holding a Horror, Needle, and Engineered Plague in my hand. I play a Horror, equip the jitte (knowing it will get swords'd soon), smash a token on his turn and he attacks with the other too. He'd been dropping Mishra's Factories for a while and drops his 3rd and says go. I smash the other token and drop a Needle. In response he activates all 3 Factories. I drop a Plague on Cat, and he doesnt put it in the graveyard because it says Lion on the Revised version, but they changed it to Cat as of 9th (and took Lion off I'm glad the reverse didn't happen and I end up naming Lion to no effect)... so the Savannah Lion dies and he's left with 3 2/2 lands... I swing with a Jitte-Horror and he can't block because he can't use their pump abilities after blocks. He concedes and 2 Swords to Plowshares are 17&19 cards down I kind of feel bad for whining about fearing his sideboard.
Round 3 - Charlie Lin (I may have his name wrong, sorry) - BG Land Destruction Charlie was watching the game vs. Aaron and is a bit worried about all the 1-2 cc cards evading his land destruction. He was very nice though, and we had very good games. At the beginning of the evening, he shook my hand and introduced himself as well :). He beat my friend in an earlier round who told me he was running Ohran Viper (this could be bad for Horror, Drake must take) and Argothian Wurm... I hope Drake will be able to handle that as well.
Game 1: Even though Vial wasn't in my opening hand, I kept it because I didn't think it was worth mulliganing as I had a decent threat (Knight) and 4 land. I think he went first and got a Bayou, Bird (to follow it up with 3cc LD turn 2) and I just played a swamp or something. He gets out 2 ports and 5 land and ties me down a bit but Knight gets through and I respond to his Ports by pumping the Knight. I get him down to 10 like this, then he taps out to play Spirit Monger. I transmute next turn for Gilded Drake but am 1 land short to play it sadly. I take 6 (looking back, I should have blocked with my Knight, but made the wrong decision at the time) and then next turn Drake the Monger... I don't find and answer to the Drake other than another drake itself... He drops a SECOND Monger and I take that... I probably should have taken my Drake as they both flew over head for 6, bringing me to 2, and he uses his dead card, Choking Sands, on my only non-swamp land in the entire deck, Volrath's Stronghold. :-/:rolleyes: haha Even though the card won him that game, he says he's boarding them out.
Sideboarding: -3 Echoing Truth, -1 Gilded Drake, +2 Withered Wretch, +2 Pithing Needle (for Wasteland and Port - later I find out he couldn't find his Wastelands or Sinkholes :o:-/) and I don't board in Hymn to Tourach because I didn't give them more than a glance before thinking "I might get stuck on 2 land and get Ported for a long time..." - Looking back, I should have put them in because hurting his hand would have helped a lot...
Game 2: He mulligans down to 5 to find land, which makes my hand a bit worse as it was a first-turn Duress play... it nabs Dark Ritual and he only has Creeping Mold and I think a 3cc LD spell in hand... This slowed him down a bit and I think saved me the game. I think I got a Horror out and draked a Centaur... but I might be confusing this for the 3rd game.
Game 3: First turn Despotic Scepter (Holding Tainted Isle and Volrath's Stronghold and Hunted Horror, hoping for a turn 2 Horror) and he Dark Rituals into a 3cc LD spell leaving me screwed on Colorless mana... I drop a Needle on Port and another Scepter I think. He destroyed both those land, but I somehow topdeck 2 more (fetchlands) and play a drawback-less Horror. He destroys one of those land, then I play a Watery grave untapped taking me to 16 from 18 while I swing for the win next turn (I did it because I have Echoing Truth in hand and don't want anything to go wrong, lose horror (can bounce it instead), etc.) he plays an Argothian Wurm and I show him the Echoing Truth (the only one I kept in was in Chinese) and he thought it was Remand for a second, but I said it was just bounce... maybe I should leave the English version in next time so it's a bit less rude...
He congratulates me on the win, and asks me if I built the deck myself. I tell him yes, but Aaron talks about how I found it "on the internet." Aaron admits that it's the Leyline Version that he says is on the internet (that Charlie asked me if I was using before we started the match... I really don't like that version) and is run in Type 2 (Charlies says he sees "it" a lot in Type 2 with Leyline and Phantasm).... eh Luckily Andrew backs me up and mentions how I've been at work on this stupid deck (that I admit everyone is probably getting sick of playing against :p) since last September.
Vodalian Zombie, die Threshold!
Anyway, I'd like to get a discussion going onDance of Many...
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
good job on the win. i dont like dancew of many for two reasons. 1: what do we cut for it? the deck is pretty synergistc, and i just dont see where the dance fits in. 2: why isnt gilded drake strictly better? when you brought up dance of many before, you mentioned and i agree that its only optimal when you can sttylu/scepter in response to the token trigger. if you have stylus/scepter, why not just use drake?
how dould this version of the deck work: same as the one you won with, except +1 mire, +1 scrubland, -2 swamp md, and +4 meddling mage, -4 hymn sb? mage can come in game 2 and name spells that you saw game 1? you have 8 fetches to find the scrubland and you can randomly draw it on occasion.
pros:
no real loss to main deck, gains additional control elements sb.
cons: no more hymn, chance of not getting fetch to play mage
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
The arguement for Dance of Many, though almost strictly worse than Drake, is that you don't have to take 3 to the face every turn, instead just pay UU every turn. Drake "removes" the creature, and then gives you it (if you look at it that way) whereas Dance of Many gives you another copy that may or may not necessarily trade. The one situation where I see a difference is with CIP abilities (mainly found in Goblins) with Siege-Gang, etc. where drake is not as effective, but Dance of Many is... either way I suppose it's not as good and only would be run (ever) as additional Drakes... but I don't think more Drakes are needed as they are often somewhat "dead."
I do like the Sideboard Mage plan and I will test it online, but until I have $50 laying around, I don't think I'm going to spring for the Mages any time soon. But Losing Hymns for Mages is worth it, and they belong in the sideboard anyway, because, as you said, you wait until you see things first game. No point in laying down a turn 2 Mage when you've only seen one card (usually) - people often name Vindicate vs. me or Counterspell, etc.
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While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
Hey, Aiden, good to hear from you. I'll have to give the Jump Knights a chance, but I'm thinking the pump knights will be better (but maybe 1 Jump to transmute for, then 1 Ebon, 1 Stromgald)...
magicianofthought, I'm probably going to hit myself later, but what's DTB?
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Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
The hardest matchup by far is Goblins. I just lost to them badly on MWS. All three games he got turn 1 Lacky. Unless I can draw a Horror and a Scepter in the opening hand, I'm in trouble as everything seems to get Fanatic'd or Gempalm'd... 2 Needles on those didn't seem to help, as playing the needles slowed me down to where I couldn't keep up.
The two biggest enemies are White and Red... perhaps sideboard Sea Sprites? That would also help with Moat problems a bit... and then the somewhat transformational sideboard strategy is "pro-color Jitte, win."
In the White version, the matchups look a lot better, it's just saddening to see Gilded Drake go. Perhaps it should be / we should try BWu [instead of BU, BW, BUw] with blue only for drake (and maybe infiltrator) and a higher concentration on Stylus/Scepter than just 4 (instead 6 as in BU).
I have some problems with Threshold as well, but things are looking a lot better with the Pump Knights' addition.
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Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
Hello, I am sorry to say that I haven't read the 9 pages of posts completely but they all seem to refer to your decklist tat doesn't have brand in it. I normally post on The Source and someone over there posted a deck a lot like this one. I just though I would show you the Decklist I have that is somewhat like your but I feel is a lot better. My deck also have problems with Chalace for 1 but has not lost a match to goblins yet (12 tournament matches, only 1 game loss), and its because of Brand. Here is a link to my decklist. The only problem with it is its vunerability to Waisteland but ONLY if hey play with crucible, otherwise the deck requires sooo little mana and uses Vails so it isn't a problem. The deck has not gotten less than top 8 for the last 2.5 months in San Diego, probabply longer but I can't remeber. It has also gotten one 1st place against Thresh in the finals and split for 1st as well in those 2.5 months. Well here is my updated Decklist, if you want explanations there is a thread over at The Source.
Yes, it's the thread created this morning on the Magic-League tournament I came in 2nd place on 8/03/06, brought to my attention by iOWN. I'm currently over there fighting for my life, trying to defend the deck and the hoard of oncoming bombardments of "WHY NO LEYLINE / BRAND" etc...
There, I was trying to say as well that I think my version is better, but the point is my worst matchup is your best... Goblins.
The comprimise is Sideboarding Brand... but over Engineered Plague?
Anyway, the differences that I don't like are you lose Confidant, have to skip draws to Mystical Tutor, Draw Vial late game with 3, have 4 Lotus Petals, and all 4 of these mean card disadvantage... sigh... I don't know. What you gain is that Mystical Tutor gets silver bullets...
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
Would Hatching Plans work well here? Just a thought.
we already discussed the hatching plans option and it has been tested and shown to be subotptimal in the deck. what would we cut for it? will it be better than what we're cutting?
Hello, I am sorry to say that I haven't read the 9 pages of posts completely but they all seem to refer to your decklist tat doesn't have brand in it. I normally post on The Source and someone over there posted a deck a lot like this one. I just though I would show you the Decklist I have that is somewhat like your but I feel is a lot better. My deck also have problems with Chalace for 1 but has not lost a match to goblins yet (12 tournament matches, only 1 game loss), and its because of Brand. Here is a link to my decklist. The only problem with it is its vunerability to Waisteland but ONLY if hey play with crucible, otherwise the deck requires sooo little mana and uses Vails so it isn't a problem. The deck has not gotten less than top 8 for the last 2.5 months in San Diego, probabply longer but I can't remeber. It has also gotten one 1st place against Thresh in the finals and split for 1st as well in those 2.5 months. Well here is my updated Decklist, if you want explanations there is a thread over at The Source.
we've discussed brand before, multiple times, and each time, testing has shown that brand doesn't improve the deck. we already have ways of removing the tokens, and our current ways of removing tokens are more permanent. what if you have hunted horror/phantasm in hand but already used a brand? this is an entirely differant deck, vile horror uses stylus/scepter, and can remove every token/drake eventually, as long as you have a stylus/scepter. you only need one, and all your donating permanents problems are solved.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
Anyway, the differences that I don't like are you lose Confidant, have to skip draws to Mystical Tutor, Draw Vial late game with 3, have 4 Lotus Petals, and all 4 of these mean card disadvantage... sigh... I don't know. What you gain is that Mystical Tutor gets silver bullets...
I dont loose to Confidant because the Average casting cost is about 1.2 and I have Therapy to sack him to if its really a problem. Skipping the Draw with Tutor isn't bad when you get a 7/7 AND two 3/3's. 3 vails is perfect because when you get it its awesome but it doesn't clutter your hand in the early game. The Lotus petal also allow for a first turn Horror which is broken with Brand and therapy/Duress on turn 2.
Although I don't love UrDraco's variations, I understand that there is something to be gained from the Goblin Problem situation.
Sarnath'd EDIT: Actually, I didn't realize Dark Confidant was in the deck... that actually changes a lot, I don't think you'll lose to him, but I was saying that you can't as easily put him in.
Something I noticed was it seems UR splash B, strangely, but I suppose Lotus Petals do a bit of mana fixing... Something I noticed also in The_valdrox's BW was not being able to get double colors, and also Wasteland making things quite difficult.
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
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So much for THAT idea.:mad:
I agree that UB is the best color choice here. Even if it's islands.
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Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
eh, don't worry about the islands, AoK, they're all tainted - TAINTED!
The_valdrox, good work in the tournament, your heavy discard seems to look good. BUVileHorror should never lose to Salvagers - ever. 4x Pithing Needle sideboard and first game Drakes should steal the salvagers unless they somehow go off turn 2. Salgame has a bit more disruption, but still Wretch shines here...
hmmm isn't Paladin en-Vec better than Mystic Crusader? And about Perish... although it's a good thought, think about it: the thing is never going to resolve... err actually it might... grah I always get stuck in a Needled situation... maybe I should give Perish [or its portal counterpart] a try...
Is scrabbling claws EVER better than Wretch in a deck that isn't already using 4, uses a Vial set on 2, etc.?
Right, apokalypsekid9, and Echoing Truth is rarely even used on the tokens/drake.
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(2): remove 2 target cards in a graveyard from the game, draw a card.
Why do you run 4 despotic specter and 2 tel-jilad stylus? the stylus is tech against solidarity so why run less then the scepter?
here's my current list. It has more creatures and is alot faster even though I took the dark rituals out. I don't have a sideboard yet though:rolleyes: .
6 Plains
7 Swamp
3 Tainted Field
4 Scrubland
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hunted Horror
3 Silver Knight
3 Withered Wretch
2 Hunted Lammasu
3 Oblation
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Perish
4 AEther Vial
4 Tel-Jilad Stylus
4 Duress
The stylus helps me against solidarity, the silver knights against goblins. I tried perish maindeck and it works wonders. Instead of having 4 despotic scepter and 2 Tel-Jilad Stylus wich makes a total of 6 I use 4 stylus and perish. perish is essentially a costy stylus/scepter against a non green deck but it's worth the cost since It totally owns threshold decks.
The hunted Llamasu is just another threat but it comes later in the game. I still keep the vial count at 2. By turn four I ussually have a stylus out so I play the Llamasu. It's drawback is sooo easier to get rid of and it's flying ability convinced me to include 2.
Oblation is really good even though it costs 3, wenever a hunted is going to die I can either oblation him or stylus him then play oblation. That way I keep in my deck were he's reachable. My opponent swordsing my hunted and I oblationing it happens quite often I The draw has often saved my ass. I can even use oblation to remove a nasty permanent for the win.
It takes 2 Akromas to bring a polar bear down.
P.S. Polar bears are :symwb:!
double P.S.
IT'S THE ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN OF ULTIMATE DESTINY. SO WATCH IT!
That list looks a lot better, not bad. BW actually seems viable without drake... for a while I tried UW because Lammasu was the only Hunted with a token count as low as horror (lower, actually - 1) so it worked with Scepter/Stylus - but hell, it works better with Oblation. Just didn't know why you had it in the sideboard before...
The reason I like your list is because it takes the Trinity into account very nicely. The strength of the deck has usually been the ability to power out a win vs. random-jank.
On the Stylus vs. Scepter thing, It was always 4 Stylus and 2 Scepter until Volrath's Stronghold went in. Then a Drake-take-every-turn and other considerations made the proportions switch, plus the graveyard is important when stealing creatures that care about threshold, etc. Just random little uses that make them different. The Stylus is better in BW as theres no Drake or Stronghold (though there really should be even without Infiltrator). You may think Stylus is good vs. a mill deck, but it proves different. They stroke of genius you if they are good (although at my store, he just freezed me and didnt force me to draw the one game he won) so Stylus won't help completely. Hymn to Tourach is still what I think is best vs. Solidarity.
Oh, and for a while it's actually been 3 Stylus 3 Scepter because of opposing Needles...
BW Loses being able to tutor for answers, but it picks up resiliency vs. the Trinity with White's pro-red creatures, etc. (even though Sea Sprite exists, it's not as good)... and all of White's efficient two-drops as well.
I'm going to test your list, The_valdrox, because polar bears are BW, and because it incorporates a lot of the white stuff I wish I had realized would be better in BW when I was trying out UW... thanks for slapping me into understanding
EDIT: Does Vindicate have a place in the sideboard or should we use Disenchant?
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Depends of the use. I would prefer disenchant because of it's instant speed. When an oponent plays a needle, the best time to wreck it is usually, well instantly. If you'd decide to play land D like sinkhole and wastelands I'd go with vindicate. I've checked on the gatherer for whitecreatures and got these somewhat playable cards:
stoic champion, true believer, warrior en-kor, daru spiritualist, Samurai of the pale curtain, eight and a half tales(for changing horror into white lol. No seriously instant speed protection for the horror could be good) wall of nets (fine token remover even though it costs 3), hokori, dust drinker(a fine lock with a vial out, then you can just play discard spells).
Edit: my current decklist is the same as the one posted above exept I took the Llamasus out and a withered wretch out for 3 Eight-and-a-half-tails. My reason: I kept the Llamasus in because they were another big threat but by adding the Eight-and-a-half-tails I ensure my main threat(hunted horror).
Edit: for pithing needles and other artifacts/enchantments is Capashen unicorn too slow? I like it for it can chomp block and be vialled out easily and can also be brought back via volraths stronghold(recuring disenchants are nice). It's the only disenchant creature out there for 2.
It takes 2 Akromas to bring a polar bear down.
P.S. Polar bears are :symwb:!
double P.S.
IT'S THE ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN OF ULTIMATE DESTINY. SO WATCH IT!
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even if you are going b/w, i dont think that double white creatures are the way to go. i think that 1 white in the cost should be the most there is. i still like B/u/w, maybe move mage to sb, and md the hymns. then bring in the mage like extra pithing needles that also stop instants/sorceries, or harmful non-activiated effects.
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I bet you didn't try my deck yet:rolleyes: . The double white mana creatures in my deck makes it so much stronger.
Silver knight can often stop goblin in its tracks and I can't immagine the deck without them. A pithing needle won't do anything to stop them and nor will a meddling mage do something against turn one lackeys. They are also very usefull against threshold for their first strike. 2 silver knights on the board often scares the threshold player enough to pass the attack phase.
I tried the other cards I named on the post but none but one were worth it. That card is eight-and-a-half-tails. When I play I am constantly wishing to draw it. From Saving my creatures to making my critters unblokable this card does everything. I even use it to make my horror become white making him apt to destroy the tokens. Its like the protective angel of the deck;) . I think you brought up the 2 white mana clause because you think theyre hard to cast, but hey, so is a medling mage in a three colored deck.
I'm gonna try volrath's stronhold and use try to find slots for capashen unicorn Maindeck. I'm tired of being needled and chaliced:p!
By the way after some testingon MW
The deck won 7 games out of 10 against threshold and 2 games to 0 against goblins(there either arn't much on mw or I'm unlucky:mad: ) 3 to 1 against elves(Perish's are often GGs). I played against one solidarity and I won Because he kept contering my spells with force of will and had to remove his combo pieces to pay the cost. He wasn't a very good player. I went lost 3 to 0 against a wierd 3 colored madness deck using anger. The more the colors the harder it is for my deck to win.
Then theres landstill. These games are long and anoying. The only way I can win is with a eight-and-a-half-tails lategame. I can't play him early because I don't have the mana. But when I play him I don't dare play something from my hand. Once he's in play it's vial a horror and protect time. At that point A Nevinyrral's Disk often hits the table. I win the game when he doesn't have one. I won 1 and lost 2 games against landstill.
Edit: you're right isamaru. Its still strong. I win most of my games because of him.
It takes 2 Akromas to bring a polar bear down.
P.S. Polar bears are :symwb:!
double P.S.
IT'S THE ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN OF ULTIMATE DESTINY. SO WATCH IT!
When I get a chance, I'll post the list I was testing (my variations on your BW), but tonight I'm brining BU PumpKnights to the tournament...
Oh, and can't you Disenchant/Seal the disk the turn it comes in? I usually am able to find and resolve a pithing needle long before one becomes a problem... It's Akroma's Vengeance I'm really worried about.
You're sure Capashen Unicorn's better than Kami of Ancient Law / Ronom Unicorn? All can be Needled though...
The Strength of 8.5 is vialing it in in response to a spell targetting a permanent you control and countering it for 2W Or influencing combat in a rude way...
BW is a viable variation, but you sadly lose Gilded Drake, making Scepter/Stylus less important...
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Really? I think that it makes Scepter/Stylus more important. Sure WB has SoP, but it the only constent removal of self contoling perments is Scepter/Stylus.
So there are three go versions to the deck (Like land still) BW, UB, UBw.
Yesterday I wanted to make a good Ubw deck and this what I came up with.
4 Hunted Horror
4 Gilded Drake
4 Dark Confidant
2 Meddling Mage
2 Pro-white knights
1 Keeper of the Mind
4 Dimir Infeltrator
4 Echoing Truth
4 Duress
Stuff:
1 Umazawa's Jitte
4 Aether Vial
3 Tel-Jelad Stylus
3 Demotic Scepter
Terra:
1 Volrath Stronghold
1 Scrubland
4 Poluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mine
4 Underground sea
5 Swamps
1 Island
2 Tainted Isle
I have not thought of a good board for UBw. I might add some more white but I would like to hear more of the strnegths of BW before I add stuff to it.
*I just thought of some thing! UB is more Control orented while WB is Aggro orented.*
Isamaru is using the scepter/stronhold/drake combo. Without the drakes the scepter is less important.
That and oblation and eight-and-a-half-tails wich basicly eliminates the drawback. Twin Silver knights can tag team to destroy loads of creatures. I really dislike using the S/S as they practicly only help 4-8 creatures and then sit there and stare at the sky untapped. I really never have any problem to rid the tokens.
I am even considering dropping one stylus and something else for an equipment of some sort.
The wb version of the deck lacks draw. Dark confidant doesn't suffice. I was thinking Sword of fire and ice but it probably costs to much. the 2 damage could rid loads of critters and the draw, I can't describe how usefull it would be.
It takes 2 Akromas to bring a polar bear down.
P.S. Polar bears are :symwb:!
double P.S.
IT'S THE ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN OF ULTIMATE DESTINY. SO WATCH IT!
Tournament Report #7
I won! First place for the first time - $25 - whoo
4 Gilded Drake
4 Dark Confidant
1 Order of the Ebon Hand
2 Knight of Stromgald
4 Dimir Infiltrator
4 Echoing Truth
4 Duress
3 Tel-Jilad Stylus
3 Despotic Scepter
4 Aether Vial
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Underground Sea
1 Watery Grave
6 Swamp
2 Tainted Isle
4 Pithing Needle
3 Withered Wretch
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Engineered Plague
4 Hymn to Tourach
I was very happy with the deck today, it performed the best it's done so far, and I'm happy with the sideboard and mainboard. The pro white knights haven't dissapointed me yet.
We almost didn't have enough players to play an 8 man tournament, but we got enough and it was sanctioned. I was going to play UG Madness, but lent someone my dual lands, wastelands, FoW, Wonder, etc. so they could play it, and I really wanted to give UB Horror with the Knights another shot after last week's dissapointment, even though everyone sort of expects it now.
Round 1 - Jeff - UG Madness
I was somewhat worried to get faced up as I haven't tested this often and would have been angry if I lost to my own cards... egh
Game 1: Opening hand is 3 land, 2 Horror, Stylus, Vial. I resolve everything and win. I topdeck some bounce to stop pesky mongrels, etc.
Sideboarding: -3 Echoing Truth, -3 Knight/Ebon, +2 Withered Wretch, +4 Pithing Needle
Game 2: He leaves mana opent he first few turns and counters a Dark Confidant, but an earlier Wretch got through. I played around the counterspells and beat in with Wretch. When he left mana open for counters, I played decoy spells, small spells, or just wretched his yard. Eventually I drake a Mongrel, but he boarded in Echoing Truth and gets em both back. It doesn't end up mattering because a Horror finishes him off. "How many of those are in your deck - yikes!"
Round 2 - Aaron Parks - UW Fish
After playing the games I realized he took out red - YAY - I did however, during the first game see him drop a turn 2 Kataki (mainboard) vs. Affinity... hahaha that's just rude. I complain for a while about how he hates me and he says he has trouble with my deck so he has to board a lot for it.
Game 1: I get a first turn Vial, but he drops Kataki. I pay the upkeep, then drop a 2nd land and Duress, taking an Echoing Truth over a Force of Will. He apparently topdecks a standstill as he plays Cloud of Faeries then the Standstill... ouch... I pay the upkeep and put the 2nd counter on, don't break the standstill... He attacks and I put Knight of Stromgald into play and block the Kataki and I give it first strike, not realizing pro-white means it doesn't even matter... oh well. He ends up having to break his own Standstill later in the game because Vial and the Knight keep me on top. I get low on life, but am able to win by draking his flying men once when he swings with a Jitte on one, and another (transmuted for it, then vialed out) so that he can't block. I smashed one of my Confidants end of turn so I wouldn't die, but still swing in for enough once the blockers are cleared.
Sideboarding: -4 Dimir Infiltrator, -4 Duress, -1 Echoing Truth, +4 Hymn to Tourach, +3 Pithing Needle, +2 Engineered Plague
Game 2: He drops a first turn Needle on Vial, but my hand has Stylus, Confidant, Horror, Needle, and land. I pretend it hurts me (as it normally would hurt a lot) and then duress him. I forget but I get a turn 2-3 Confidant, and have to keep getting hit from Ninja. Turn 4, Jitte + Equip after he tapped out (no swords) to play Savannah Lions and a Flying Men. He blocks Confidant with Flying Men and I kill off the Ninja (one counter at a time) because I'm holding a Horror, Needle, and Engineered Plague in my hand. I play a Horror, equip the jitte (knowing it will get swords'd soon), smash a token on his turn and he attacks with the other too. He'd been dropping Mishra's Factories for a while and drops his 3rd and says go. I smash the other token and drop a Needle. In response he activates all 3 Factories. I drop a Plague on Cat, and he doesnt put it in the graveyard because it says Lion on the Revised version, but they changed it to Cat as of 9th (and took Lion off I'm glad the reverse didn't happen and I end up naming Lion to no effect)... so the Savannah Lion dies and he's left with 3 2/2 lands... I swing with a Jitte-Horror and he can't block because he can't use their pump abilities after blocks. He concedes and 2 Swords to Plowshares are 17&19 cards down I kind of feel bad for whining about fearing his sideboard.
Round 3 - Charlie Lin (I may have his name wrong, sorry) - BG Land Destruction
Charlie was watching the game vs. Aaron and is a bit worried about all the 1-2 cc cards evading his land destruction. He was very nice though, and we had very good games. At the beginning of the evening, he shook my hand and introduced himself as well :). He beat my friend in an earlier round who told me he was running Ohran Viper (this could be bad for Horror, Drake must take) and Argothian Wurm... I hope Drake will be able to handle that as well.
Game 1: Even though Vial wasn't in my opening hand, I kept it because I didn't think it was worth mulliganing as I had a decent threat (Knight) and 4 land. I think he went first and got a Bayou, Bird (to follow it up with 3cc LD turn 2) and I just played a swamp or something. He gets out 2 ports and 5 land and ties me down a bit but Knight gets through and I respond to his Ports by pumping the Knight. I get him down to 10 like this, then he taps out to play Spirit Monger. I transmute next turn for Gilded Drake but am 1 land short to play it sadly. I take 6 (looking back, I should have blocked with my Knight, but made the wrong decision at the time) and then next turn Drake the Monger... I don't find and answer to the Drake other than another drake itself... He drops a SECOND Monger and I take that... I probably should have taken my Drake as they both flew over head for 6, bringing me to 2, and he uses his dead card, Choking Sands, on my only non-swamp land in the entire deck, Volrath's Stronghold. :-/:rolleyes: haha Even though the card won him that game, he says he's boarding them out.
Sideboarding: -3 Echoing Truth, -1 Gilded Drake, +2 Withered Wretch, +2 Pithing Needle (for Wasteland and Port - later I find out he couldn't find his Wastelands or Sinkholes :o:-/) and I don't board in Hymn to Tourach because I didn't give them more than a glance before thinking "I might get stuck on 2 land and get Ported for a long time..." - Looking back, I should have put them in because hurting his hand would have helped a lot...
Game 2: He mulligans down to 5 to find land, which makes my hand a bit worse as it was a first-turn Duress play... it nabs Dark Ritual and he only has Creeping Mold and I think a 3cc LD spell in hand... This slowed him down a bit and I think saved me the game. I think I got a Horror out and draked a Centaur... but I might be confusing this for the 3rd game.
Game 3: First turn Despotic Scepter (Holding Tainted Isle and Volrath's Stronghold and Hunted Horror, hoping for a turn 2 Horror) and he Dark Rituals into a 3cc LD spell leaving me screwed on Colorless mana... I drop a Needle on Port and another Scepter I think. He destroyed both those land, but I somehow topdeck 2 more (fetchlands) and play a drawback-less Horror. He destroys one of those land, then I play a Watery grave untapped taking me to 16 from 18 while I swing for the win next turn (I did it because I have Echoing Truth in hand and don't want anything to go wrong, lose horror (can bounce it instead), etc.) he plays an Argothian Wurm and I show him the Echoing Truth (the only one I kept in was in Chinese) and he thought it was Remand for a second, but I said it was just bounce... maybe I should leave the English version in next time so it's a bit less rude...
He congratulates me on the win, and asks me if I built the deck myself. I tell him yes, but Aaron talks about how I found it "on the internet." Aaron admits that it's the Leyline Version that he says is on the internet (that Charlie asked me if I was using before we started the match... I really don't like that version) and is run in Type 2 (Charlies says he sees "it" a lot in Type 2 with Leyline and Phantasm).... eh Luckily Andrew backs me up and mentions how I've been at work on this stupid deck (that I admit everyone is probably getting sick of playing against :p) since last September.
Vodalian Zombie, die Threshold!
Anyway, I'd like to get a discussion going on Dance of Many...
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Nice jorb on the win:grin:. Looks like that there were no problems on the deck.
Dance of Many Looks kinda slow in this deck... but I could be wrong.
how dould this version of the deck work: same as the one you won with, except +1 mire, +1 scrubland, -2 swamp md, and +4 meddling mage, -4 hymn sb? mage can come in game 2 and name spells that you saw game 1? you have 8 fetches to find the scrubland and you can randomly draw it on occasion.
pros:
no real loss to main deck, gains additional control elements sb.
cons: no more hymn, chance of not getting fetch to play mage
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I do like the Sideboard Mage plan and I will test it online, but until I have $50 laying around, I don't think I'm going to spring for the Mages any time soon. But Losing Hymns for Mages is worth it, and they belong in the sideboard anyway, because, as you said, you wait until you see things first game. No point in laying down a turn 2 Mage when you've only seen one card (usually) - people often name Vindicate vs. me or Counterspell, etc.
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I would like to start a disscussion on DTB (esp. Goblins).....
Edit: I think the was to brake the deck is to find the ultmate 1-2cc tech to go crazy with.
magicianofthought, I'm probably going to hit myself later, but what's DTB?
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DTB= Decks To Beat (ie Tier One Decks)
The two biggest enemies are White and Red... perhaps sideboard Sea Sprites? That would also help with Moat problems a bit... and then the somewhat transformational sideboard strategy is "pro-color Jitte, win."
In the White version, the matchups look a lot better, it's just saddening to see Gilded Drake go. Perhaps it should be / we should try BWu [instead of BU, BW, BUw] with blue only for drake (and maybe infiltrator) and a higher concentration on Stylus/Scepter than just 4 (instead 6 as in BU).
I have some problems with Threshold as well, but things are looking a lot better with the Pump Knights' addition.
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Creatures: 18
4 Hunted Horror
4 Hunted Phantasm
4 Gilded Drake
4 Dark Confidant
Spells: 22
4 Brand
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
3 Magma Jet
Artifacts: 4
3 Aether Vial
4 Lotus Petal
Land: 16
4 Volcanic Island
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
SIDEBOARD: 15
Very Dependant or your own meta, but mine looks something like this now
3 Pithing Needle
4 Divert
4 Red Elemantal Blast/Pyroblast
1 Reroute
1 Perish
1 Virtue’s Ruin
1 Flashfires
There, I was trying to say as well that I think my version is better, but the point is my worst matchup is your best... Goblins.
The comprimise is Sideboarding Brand... but over Engineered Plague?
Anyway, the differences that I don't like are you lose Confidant, have to skip draws to Mystical Tutor, Draw Vial late game with 3, have 4 Lotus Petals, and all 4 of these mean card disadvantage... sigh... I don't know. What you gain is that Mystical Tutor gets silver bullets...
Card Tags:
4 Hunted Phantasm
4 Gilded Drake
4 Dark Confidant
4 Brand
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
3 Magma Jet
4 Lotus Petal
4 Volcanic Island
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
3 Pithing Needle
4 Divert
4 Red Elemantal Blast/Pyroblast
1 Reroute
1 Perish
1 Virtue’s Ruin
1 Flashfires
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we already discussed the hatching plans option and it has been tested and shown to be subotptimal in the deck. what would we cut for it? will it be better than what we're cutting?
we've discussed brand before, multiple times, and each time, testing has shown that brand doesn't improve the deck. we already have ways of removing the tokens, and our current ways of removing tokens are more permanent. what if you have hunted horror/phantasm in hand but already used a brand? this is an entirely differant deck, vile horror uses stylus/scepter, and can remove every token/drake eventually, as long as you have a stylus/scepter. you only need one, and all your donating permanents problems are solved.
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I dont loose to Confidant because the Average casting cost is about 1.2 and I have Therapy to sack him to if its really a problem. Skipping the Draw with Tutor isn't bad when you get a 7/7 AND two 3/3's. 3 vails is perfect because when you get it its awesome but it doesn't clutter your hand in the early game. The Lotus petal also allow for a first turn Horror which is broken with Brand and therapy/Duress on turn 2.
Sarnath'd EDIT: Actually, I didn't realize Dark Confidant was in the deck... that actually changes a lot, I don't think you'll lose to him, but I was saying that you can't as easily put him in.
Something I noticed was it seems UR splash B, strangely, but I suppose Lotus Petals do a bit of mana fixing... Something I noticed also in The_valdrox's BW was not being able to get double colors, and also Wasteland making things quite difficult.
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