We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
Hymn in the board is mainly there to slow down board control decks, this decks worst MU, I'm not sure that thoughtseize would do as much against them. From what testing Isamaru and I have done in the sage builds I'd almost always rather have Therapy just because it can take out more cards, and it is more like have 8 discard spells MD than 4.
I also wouldn't remove any colored mana sources to add wastelands, I would only remove other utility lands or spells since their are so many cards that require two colored mana that you want to be able to consistently use.
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
This thread has been around a long time and is quite long for a strategy thread. In addition to this, the thread creator has requested for this thread to be locked for a multitude of reasons and feelings. If you would like to continue discussion of this archetype, please create a new thread.
Moved to the Archives - YuanTi
Moved back again and Unlocked, Isamaru has requested this specifically. - YuanTi
I know that discussion will continue, but I believe that it should be of your own decisions and ideas. If I did provide the current list, it would go against what I said.
You can always use what has already been discussed and provided in the previous pages and in the deck's history to guide you. You're further off than I was when I started either way.
If you see a need for something in the metagame, do something about it. (Large creatures/Tarmogoyf? Design a deck around Gilded Drake like I did, etc.) Similarly, if you see an injustice in the world, write a letter, do something about it.
I believe that each person should make a deck by themselves in order to be refined as they become a better player/deckbuilder. That's what the game was originally about. (A pet deck is healthy for this reason.) Some people say "I'm not a good deckbuilder" - but I believe that it is part of the game, and you only get better with practice. Also, it is impossible to be a good player without being a good deckbuilder. In order to know why a card should be played, one must understand why it was included in the deck in the first place.
Therefore, if you want to build a Hunted Horror deck, or any deck for that matter, begin with the cards you want to include, then test that version, make changes, test, make changes, test, make changes, test, make changes... and eventually you'll have a stronger deck. The next time around, it will take less time to refine a deck. It really isn't hard to imagine this process, only difficult to do.
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
One thing I was thinking about when looking at a deck was Phyrexian Dreadnought. The deck already runs the two main ways of getting a nought into play, Stifle the ability or vial in one to sacrifice in response to ability.
Another thing is that is you use say five "destroy tokens" cards (Despotic Scepter and Tel-Jilad Stylus) I think that the number should be 3 Stylus and 2 Scepter or even 4 to 1 instead of the 3 scepter to 2 stylus I saw in the deck. That way you have a better chance of returning Drakes to your library and then transmuting for them again.
Yes but there are 3 Transmuters and only 1 Stronghold. Although you can use Stronghold multiple times. Maybe use 1 Tolaria West? Can also search for other lands like Riptide Lab or Wasteland.
Nightmaster, I know this thread is one of the longest ones on the Proven Competitive list, but it still is really annoying when people repeat ideas that have been discussed to death. I'll give you a brief recap on each.
One thing I was thinking about when looking at a deck was Phyrexian Dreadnought. The deck already runs the two main ways of getting a nought into play, Stifle the ability or vial in one to sacrifice in response to ability.
Dreadnought isn't even good in decks specifically designed to get him out fast just because he is so fragile -- he's a 2 card combo that dies to any kill spell or disruption as he's being played (giving your opponent a 2-for-1 in each instance). That said, this deck is definitely not one made to get him out. This deck needs every single card slot available for disruption in addition to the Drake/Horror/Stick synergy, and has no room for fetchers such as Tinker Mage or the Dreadnoughts themselves. If you can make a worthwhile suggestion on what to cut for the 'noughts, we'll listen, but I think that you'll find that there's no room for them. Finally, another huge trampler is not what the deck needs -- it already runs three (sometimes 4 depending on the list) huge tramplers that work even without Stifle.
Another thing is that is you use say five "destroy tokens" cards (Despotic Scepter and Tel-Jilad Stylus) I think that the number should be 3 Stylus and 2 Scepter or even 4 to 1 instead of the 3 scepter to 2 stylus I saw in the deck. That way you have a better chance of returning Drakes to your library and then transmuting for them again.
Tutoring for Drakes is waaay harder than just Strongholding them back onto the top, which is why I suggested originally to go all Scepters and no Stylii. Stephen made a very good point, however, that Pithing needle sees a lot of play yet, and forces us to do a 2/3 split. For this reason, I definitely run 3 Scepters and 2 Stylii.
Yes but there are 3 Transmuters and only 1 Stronghold. Although you can use Stronghold multiple times. Maybe use 1 Tolaria West? Can also search for other lands like Riptide Lab or Wasteland.
There are 3 transmuters and only 1 Stronghold, but there are 4 Drakes. How often do you think it's relevant that you need to put a Drake back in the deck because you've already used all 4? I've played this deck for several months now and have yet to see such a situation. It's way better to sac the Drake and have it hang out in the graveyard until the Stronghold shows up. If in the meantime you need another Drake and find a transmuter, there's still going to be 3 Drakes in the deck.
I still like this deck, but I have to admit, when I messed with it, I removed Hunted Horror. I like Gilded Drake though, and he's even better in Tarmo world. Has anyone ever consider using Waterfront Bouncer? He serves as limited board control, can be transmuted for by Dimir Infiltrator and can get GDrake back too.
I see GDrake more as psuedo removal. But, in this regard, I notice alot of the deck kind rides on him, and various other tricks, especially with Vial. I'm trying to think if there is a way to move away from using the Scepters, but still keeping deck integrity with some alterations. Only thing is I really don't like HHorror, I'd much rather use something like Sea Drake or some hard hitting evasive beater that won't give the opponent beaters of their own, and without the need to have maindeck cards to make up for the drawback. The need to make up for the drawback of GDrake ANF HHorror is somewhat disconcerting at times.
I know that this is a necro, but I find it hilarious that without Isamaru this thread died. It seems everyone else realized how sub-optimal this here deck is.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
Its not on the level of threshold but the deck is still fairly competitive with a decent pilot, at least a lot more so than some decks getting attention here. And before Isamaru left everyone was basically just retrying the same old ideas anyways, if he stayed I still think it would have died fairly soon.
Well, actually it died because nobody else really ever did anything for the deck. From what I've read, it seems like Isamaru/Stephen was the only one ever posting ideas or changes.
And that's okay, because it technically was Stephen's 'pet deck' - meaning that it is strange when Bladewing says "pilot"... who else would?
Something that still confuses me about this game is either that people don't feel the need (or they think they are too inexperienced) to build their own decks, or they are somehow able to feel 'patriotic' while joining together in playing a bandwagon deck like Dragon Stompy... when, in the end, nobody really motioned for a unified movement with Vile Horror, but rather each person who took an interest in his project decided they thought they could do it better on their own, or didn't think of it as a serious endeavour to begin with.
Still, it's probably better that everybody works on their ideas on their own (I think Stephen tests with Bladewing still), because - at least in this case - nobody was really working together in the first place.
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Thank you to R&Doom at Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe for the banner! Thank you Erasmus for the Avatar!
Almost every Magic player I've ever come into contact with thinks in the exact same ignorant way: Flores has "taught" them to believe that the "best" decks use the "best" cards.
And that's why nobody could understand what Stephen - and others like myself that actually do think innovatively - try to do. ...And no, this does not include Patrick Chapin, who in the end is under the same mentality as each of you who are forced into a Cube mind set of deck building and playing - thanks, Lapille for proliferating narrow-mindedness.
So, as the deck list above and in post #968 show, we're done here. This thread could only exist as long as people knew how to actually build decks, and apparently Flores and other article writers have convinced people that there is only one way: to use the "best cards." Tarmogoyf FTW.
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Thank you to R&Doom at Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe for the banner! Thank you Erasmus for the Avatar!
Anyone who was playing with this deck..... I am sure more then one player has ever played with it. You complain about people playing different decks, yet I wouldn't say something like that if I used this deck.
there is only one way: to use the "best cards."
Yes, I do like playing counterspell instead of cancel.........
Almost every Magic player I've ever come into contact with thinks in the exact same ignorant way: Flores has "taught" them to believe that the "best" decks use the "best" cards.
And that's why nobody could understand what Stephen - and others like myself that actually do think innovatively - try to do. ...And no, this does not include Patrick Chapin, who in the end is under the same mentality as each of you who are forced into a Cube mind set of deck building and playing - thanks, Lapille for proliferating narrow-mindedness.
You are narrowed-minded as the people you are calling ignorant if you actually think that most people are thinking in the box. In blackjack, there is a difference between doubling down when you have 11 or when you have 20. One just makes more sense, the other none at all; the same as playing with Tarmogoyf over some of the other choices.
Must you continue with posts saying how you and Stephen are God's gift to magic players? Seriously, it is not productive, nor any where near the truth. There are plenty of people that have creative new ideas.
So, as the deck list above and in post #968 show, we're done here. This thread could only exist as long as people knew how to actually build decks, and apparently Flores and other article writers have convinced people that there is only one way: to use the "best cards." Tarmogoyf FTW.
I guess we should actually continue the thread, since there are plenty of us here that can build decks. Ignorance FTL.
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In Vintage (Type 1) > Budget Deck Discussion forum:
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
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I also wouldn't remove any colored mana sources to add wastelands, I would only remove other utility lands or spells since their are so many cards that require two colored mana that you want to be able to consistently use.
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
This isn't the end of Vile Horror, but I did feel that some points needed to be addressed, that's all.
Thank you for the continued support, encouragement, and help
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
Moved to the Archives - YuanTi
Moved back again and Unlocked, Isamaru has requested this specifically. - YuanTi
You can always use what has already been discussed and provided in the previous pages and in the deck's history to guide you. You're further off than I was when I started either way.
If you see a need for something in the metagame, do something about it. (Large creatures/Tarmogoyf? Design a deck around Gilded Drake like I did, etc.) Similarly, if you see an injustice in the world, write a letter, do something about it.
I believe that each person should make a deck by themselves in order to be refined as they become a better player/deckbuilder. That's what the game was originally about. (A pet deck is healthy for this reason.) Some people say "I'm not a good deckbuilder" - but I believe that it is part of the game, and you only get better with practice. Also, it is impossible to be a good player without being a good deckbuilder. In order to know why a card should be played, one must understand why it was included in the deck in the first place.
Therefore, if you want to build a Hunted Horror deck, or any deck for that matter, begin with the cards you want to include, then test that version, make changes, test, make changes, test, make changes, test, make changes... and eventually you'll have a stronger deck. The next time around, it will take less time to refine a deck. It really isn't hard to imagine this process, only difficult to do.
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
Another thing is that is you use say five "destroy tokens" cards (Despotic Scepter and Tel-Jilad Stylus) I think that the number should be 3 Stylus and 2 Scepter or even 4 to 1 instead of the 3 scepter to 2 stylus I saw in the deck. That way you have a better chance of returning Drakes to your library and then transmuting for them again.
Dreadnought isn't even good in decks specifically designed to get him out fast just because he is so fragile -- he's a 2 card combo that dies to any kill spell or disruption as he's being played (giving your opponent a 2-for-1 in each instance). That said, this deck is definitely not one made to get him out. This deck needs every single card slot available for disruption in addition to the Drake/Horror/Stick synergy, and has no room for fetchers such as Tinker Mage or the Dreadnoughts themselves. If you can make a worthwhile suggestion on what to cut for the 'noughts, we'll listen, but I think that you'll find that there's no room for them. Finally, another huge trampler is not what the deck needs -- it already runs three (sometimes 4 depending on the list) huge tramplers that work even without Stifle.
Tutoring for Drakes is waaay harder than just Strongholding them back onto the top, which is why I suggested originally to go all Scepters and no Stylii. Stephen made a very good point, however, that Pithing needle sees a lot of play yet, and forces us to do a 2/3 split. For this reason, I definitely run 3 Scepters and 2 Stylii.
There are 3 transmuters and only 1 Stronghold, but there are 4 Drakes. How often do you think it's relevant that you need to put a Drake back in the deck because you've already used all 4? I've played this deck for several months now and have yet to see such a situation. It's way better to sac the Drake and have it hang out in the graveyard until the Stronghold shows up. If in the meantime you need another Drake and find a transmuter, there's still going to be 3 Drakes in the deck.
I see GDrake more as psuedo removal. But, in this regard, I notice alot of the deck kind rides on him, and various other tricks, especially with Vial. I'm trying to think if there is a way to move away from using the Scepters, but still keeping deck integrity with some alterations. Only thing is I really don't like HHorror, I'd much rather use something like Sea Drake or some hard hitting evasive beater that won't give the opponent beaters of their own, and without the need to have maindeck cards to make up for the drawback. The need to make up for the drawback of GDrake ANF HHorror is somewhat disconcerting at times.
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And that's okay, because it technically was Stephen's 'pet deck' - meaning that it is strange when Bladewing says "pilot"... who else would?
Something that still confuses me about this game is either that people don't feel the need (or they think they are too inexperienced) to build their own decks, or they are somehow able to feel 'patriotic' while joining together in playing a bandwagon deck like Dragon Stompy... when, in the end, nobody really motioned for a unified movement with Vile Horror, but rather each person who took an interest in his project decided they thought they could do it better on their own, or didn't think of it as a serious endeavour to begin with.
Still, it's probably better that everybody works on their ideas on their own (I think Stephen tests with Bladewing still), because - at least in this case - nobody was really working together in the first place.
Thank you to R&Doom at Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe for the banner!
Thank you Erasmus for the Avatar!
Clan A.R.D.
MtG Music Video - Simple Plan's Untitled
thing is, now with the whole drednaught stifle thing. and the tarmogoyf thing, the decks basis is a bit weak.
look at the last update of the deck
4 Gilded Drake
3 Hunted Horror
4 Dark Confidant
1 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
3 Dimir Infiltrator
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
1 Echoing Truth
3 Despotic Scepter
2 Tel-Jilad Stylus
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
2 Riptide Lab
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
2 Island
then change it to
4 phyrexian drednaught
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Aether Vial
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Forest
then some changes to hte basis of the deck, and it is stronger
the whole premise of the deck is now redundant.
Sorry to say it, but so is this post. Couldn't you have thought of a better way to say "I don't like your deck"? Flame warning.
3 Nether Shadow BETA
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Power does not corrupt, power attracts those that are inherently corruptible.
The powerful prognosticative powers of Leonginus - a "force" indeed!!
Almost every Magic player I've ever come into contact with thinks in the exact same ignorant way: Flores has "taught" them to believe that the "best" decks use the "best" cards.
And that's why nobody could understand what Stephen - and others like myself that actually do think innovatively - try to do. ...And no, this does not include Patrick Chapin, who in the end is under the same mentality as each of you who are forced into a Cube mind set of deck building and playing - thanks, Lapille for proliferating narrow-mindedness.
So, as the deck list above and in post #968 show, we're done here. This thread could only exist as long as people knew how to actually build decks, and apparently Flores and other article writers have convinced people that there is only one way: to use the "best cards." Tarmogoyf FTW.
Thank you to R&Doom at Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe for the banner!
Thank you Erasmus for the Avatar!
Clan A.R.D.
MtG Music Video - Simple Plan's Untitled
Anyone who was playing with this deck..... I am sure more then one player has ever played with it. You complain about people playing different decks, yet I wouldn't say something like that if I used this deck.
Yes, I do like playing counterspell instead of cancel.........
i can list as many as i can if you want.
you are quite narrowminded, saying that others dont think innovately, like you do. like you are something special, or judd.
you can make your own rouge deck, and sometimes they can eb very good, but wont really compete in a tourney environment.
and i stand by my words, having played this deck and against, i think it has come a long way, but i dont think it can progress much further.
also, good cards get their name for a reason, crap cards get a name for a reason.
also, side note, would you play goyf or grizzly bear? point on 'good cards'
you could you a 20c cards, or , to be better, you could use a $30 card.
example, vintage being more expensive and better than say standard, or legacy or extended...
Doubleposting's uncool, too. Merged, etc. You're getting familiar with that tightrope between warnings and worse, y'know?
3 Nether Shadow BETA
2 Plateau
2 Bayou
HAVES:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=71454
Power does not corrupt, power attracts those that are inherently corruptible.
The powerful prognosticative powers of Leonginus - a "force" indeed!!
You are narrowed-minded as the people you are calling ignorant if you actually think that most people are thinking in the box. In blackjack, there is a difference between doubling down when you have 11 or when you have 20. One just makes more sense, the other none at all; the same as playing with Tarmogoyf over some of the other choices.
Must you continue with posts saying how you and Stephen are God's gift to magic players? Seriously, it is not productive, nor any where near the truth. There are plenty of people that have creative new ideas.
I guess we should actually continue the thread, since there are plenty of us here that can build decks. Ignorance FTL.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
it cant beat gobs
it cant beat TES
"" belcher
"" enchantress
"" thresh
what can it beat?
3 Nether Shadow BETA
2 Plateau
2 Bayou
HAVES:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=71454
Power does not corrupt, power attracts those that are inherently corruptible.
The powerful prognosticative powers of Leonginus - a "force" indeed!!
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Goodbye Cruel World, It's Over, Walk On By
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That is not VH. That is a different deck.
SJ and I have the most insane list of VH ever put together. It does not even look like VH, yet it plays the same.