It is just an odd predicament that in order to advance the deck, it was necessary to lose its original meaning. Depressing, but true as well in life in general.
Also, take time to finally go out and get fresh air, finish homework on time, and spend time with your family now. Enjoy life.
Introduction and Consideration:
Two years have been spent on this deck by myself and others. I have spent countless hours on each proportion, on each card choice, on each sideboard choice. It has changed with the metagame shifts, some in favor of the deck concept, others against it. With the printing of Tarmogoyf and the un-errata of Phyrexian Dreadnought, the time is ripe for playing Vile Horror, the best truly rogue deck I know of, as long as it stays rogue, that is... what a paradox.
In light of this, please respect my efforts by giving credit where it is due. If you should play my deck, do it for me or do it for the thread as a group by citing your source (MTGSalvation Legacy Forum / Stephen Judd). I asked for help and am glad I got it, but I want to make sure it doesn't all go unnoticed.
Things I Love to See:
True Believer
Ivory Mask
Jackal Pup
Reanimator
Slower Janky Burn
Very Large Creatures
Aggro Decks with larger creatures / Rancor
Isochron Scepter
Land Destruction, especially without Discard (but need Vial)
Things I Hate to See:
Pernicious Deed - no longer bad
Chalice of the Void
Supression Field
Powder Keg - no longer bad
Engineered Explosives - no longer bad
Goblin Lacky - no longer bad
Swords to Plowshares (not so so bad)
Akroma's Vengeance
Nevinyrral's Disk
Null Rod
Energy Flux
Multiple Pithing Needles
Crime//Punishment
Simic Sky Swallower & Plated Slagwurm
Haunting Echoes
Matchup Difficulty Levels:
"Great to Good/Medium" Matchups: (These are generalizations in some cases, so please don't take offense or argue over speculation)
Reanimator and Graveyard Strategies
Targettable-Fat Beatdown Decks / Low-land-count Stompy (G/GB/GBu)
RG Aggro / things with Rancor, Kird Ape, often with nice big guys like Iwamori (steal) and Winter Orb (vial)
Decks that utilize Goblin Welder (usually)
UG Madness - it seems strange, but Gilded Drake usually wins this, along with Horror, Wretch, and other graveyard hate. It has really been an easy matchup, especially now with Pongify.
Affinity - again, for some reason this is rediculously easy.
RGSA usually
Life from the Loam / Assault Loam decks - usually (postboard). Terrageddon - Drake Take Smash. Might need Annul or FoW for SB Null Rods.
43 Land - haven't tested with sideboard in, but I think postboard it should be okay.
Angel Stompy - Not a great matchup, but Pongify, Drake, Needle, and ProWhite from sideboard help a lot.
Solidarity - I haven't lost a game to it yet, but I always get nervous
IGGY Pop - not too too bad, but of course there is always the possibility of a crazy draw - Stifle in sideboard helps a lot, unless Defense Grid stops it.
"Medium to Bad" Matchups:
Threshold - has improved a lot with the more recent variations
Goblins - this matchup has gotten better with Sage and Pongify, but Goblins is the best aggro deck in the format, so...
Burn - can outrace Horror without Hymn backup, but Horror can't be easily burned. Creatureless burn, of course, is more difficult by far.
Discard / Suicide Strategies - if on the play, usually can survive. If a Confidant can stay out for more than a turn or so, it is easier to win.
Pox - this is really quite annoying, but Sage of Epityr has helped a lot... Trinisphere, though, really screws things up.
Meathooks - Untargettable... it's do-able, but quite difficult. CounterSliver has really become a problem lately, but ProWhite and Engineered Explosives help a bit.
UW/r/b Fish - often very troublesome, using a lot of Daze-stuff, cheap creatures, Jitte, cheap card advantage, etc. (almost similar to Meathooks)
"Bad to Horrible" Matchups:
MUC - not too bad, but Vedalken Shackles is VERY annoying pre-board and Powder Keg kills... MUC doesn't see that much play, I hope.
Truffle Shuffle, Dirt - Pernicious Deed and Swords to Plowshares, board control, Haunting Echoes...
Landstill - pretty bad matchup... board control
Faerie Stompy - SoFI is a problem here too, but it's Chalice that hurts most.
Stax - Quite hard to beat with 4 Trinisphere... Ensnaring Bridge, Chalice, etc.
These are now missing links because they were on the original thread here at MTGSalvation, which apparently has been deleted...
I entered the Magic-League.com Legacy Tournament Trial and got 2nd place out of 59 players. Here are the decklists. I won every game I played except for the final round... Mountain. Lacky. Lose. :'( How could I be stupid enough to not take the Defense Grids out for Funeral Charm? I even was doing just that in real life WHILE I was signing up for the tournament... Greh.. Note to self, Jitte SUCKS vs. Goblins contrary to popular belief.
Here's a short list of the 6 matchups in order:
IGGYpop
BG Deed/LD
Angel Stompy
UW Weenie + Control
Suicide Black
Vial Goblins
What About Brand?
Though I have strayed away from Brand after trying it, there is a close, simultaneously-developed Rule 216.1a concept (by UrDraco).
My variation on his concept would be something like -5 Stylus/Scepter, -3 Infiltrator, -1 Echoing Truth, -4 Stifle, +3 Mystical Tutor, +4 Brand, +2 Engineered Explosives (mainboard), +4 Brainstorm to my current list, and then using a BUr mana base with 4 Forbidden Orchard and 6 fetchlands.
Thanks to:
Not in any order...
Thank you to R&Doom at Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe for the classic banner!
Thank you to Craven at Epic Graphics for the second header banner!
bladewing019
Apokalypse Kid & Faeren Lord of Carlisle
magicianofthought
The_grey_king
Shindig_Ascension
z38gm
pooispoois
MD
MorgulLord
MultaniMan3000
Finn
Avatar of Kokusho
Orion_Pax
Viroid
SapphireTri
Sr. Kitty & Belgareth
The_valdrox
Twinkee
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
Okay, reading through everything, I still see you missing one of the most crucial part that is testing result. In all your tourny results, you have lost to all the more popular decks (ie: threshold and Goblin). I'd really like to see the match-ups since you've yet to provide one.
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The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence but in the mastery of his passions. - Lord Alfred Tennyson
To inform everyone the deck was voted up. It still needs work BUT has been through the wash many times over and he has proven he's in for the long haul. Please Keep all post constructive. You can critique away but please do it in a pleasant manner.
You say you have a tough time vs Solidarity and Rifter...well, if I remember correctly, Rifter uses Confinement locks. I hear Mana Breach is pretty decent vs things like that.
So for Solidarity...if they have to bounce an island for every spell they play, they'll run out of land in a very short time.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
You say you have a tough time vs Solidarity and Rifter...well, if I remember correctly, Rifter uses Confinement locks. I hear Mana Breach is pretty decent vs things like that.
Rifter doesn't use the confinement lock as far as I know. They just cast Humility and then slice and dice the board up and laugh at the opponent's face. Most of their stuff can be cycled, so that'll bypass the mana breach. They can just cycle a large degree of justice and call it a day.
Nice find for Solidarity though
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The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence but in the mastery of his passions. - Lord Alfred Tennyson
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
As previously stated, Mana Breach does nothing against Rifter, because they just cycle their stuff. It is not as strong a card as Mana Maze against Solidarity, because you have to devote more slots in the board to it, whereas Mana Maze you are fine running 1 or 2, because of Transmute. This also stops them completely, where as they have a small chance of going off even with Mana Breach on the board. Solidarity dosen't even show up in Stephen's meta (I would know) so he dosen't even need to board against it, though it is worth looking into for anyone else playing the deck.
I think the tutoring effect is poor. You should be running 3-4's ofs against Solidarity no matter what you run. Tutoring on turn3 (or later) is giving your solidarity player a time walk. Then next turn they in response go off in response to your Mana maze.
Either way you should be running multiples of the anti-solidarity spells in my opinion.
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The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence but in the mastery of his passions. - Lord Alfred Tennyson
Why isn't red in there for Brand? Excuse me if I'm saying something already stated but it semms it would win games by itself.
This was addressed in the last thread. He HAS tried it before (once again, I am probably the second most knowledgeable person on this deck. I test with Isamaru 24/7, and also use the deck occasionally).
Quote from Isamaru »
The thought would be run 3-4x Brand in the sideboard vs. aggro only, with a Badland maindeck... but it doesn't seem like there's room in the sideboard.
Maindeck? No room and too vulnerable / useless in many matchups, even with cycling.
@ Twinkee: Solidarity doesn't show up in our meta, unless I start playing it, so it's not a problem. For others, I suppose you could do as you please.
Hey all, I thought I'd give Avatar of Kokusho's suggestion some time to be discussed without saying anything. Sadly, Mana Breach costs 3. I kept it on my mind for a few hours while eating and getting ready for bed, and I think it could be included (maybe in the sideboard so it comes in only if it would help the matchup). Then again, it's almost a Standstill type card, but it isn't quite like that.
I suppose if we focused more around Standstill, we could even transmute for it, but here the point is that Mana Breach doesn't stop all [our] spells from being played. Transmute is activated, Vial, Stronghold, scepters, and even if we play a few spells, It may even accelerate our mana if we don't play land that turn!
It may, sadly, only hurt a few different decks, and only in the early game... and it may accelerate them in that fashion too... but some decks would definitely be hurt by it. I'm not 100% sure on it one way or the other. It just may not come down fast enough, although I should give it a chance.
As for Solidarity, this would obviously stop it (but not completely like Mana Maze), but for Rifter it doesnt help (as has been said 3 times now sorry to repeat it), and yes, Solidarity is NOT played at our store (but still needs to be considered) and Rifter isn't played either (but may be built soon by someone I saw). So there are arguements for and against Mana Breach and Mana Maze. What is the consensus on each?
I forgot about boarding plagues vs. Rifter, but it may be smarter to only drop the plague after they cycle the Decree. Not only does this keep a card to bluff a counterspell with (always a good technique in a blue deck that doesn't actually have countermagic), but it also stops them from Disenchanting the plague before cycling AND from simply making Angels instead if they know you have it.
Mana Maze helps vs. Burn and Solidarity (almost exclusively, sadly) but I don't know if Mana Breach could be disruptive enough to the opponant to be worth not only the mana, but the slot in the sideboard if it's getting full already.
Quote from Twinkee »
I think the tutoring effect is poor. You should be running 3-4's ofs against Solidarity no matter what you run. Tutoring on turn3 (or later) is giving your solidarity player a time walk. Then next turn they in response go off in response to your Mana maze.
Sad, but true; as such, there would be 2-3 Mana Maze in the board if Solidarity / burn / mono-colored decks of sorts should be present. Quick Question: is boarding in Withered Wretch worth it in the worst case scenario that your "best" move is removing their Flash of Insights?
Keep your eye on the first post of the thread as I'll be changing a bit of it and updating it. I am going to change the "Matchups to Improve Upon" area and probably add/modify something to the effect of "Strategies" vs. certain decks, or rather just "Sideboarding Strategies."
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
Isamaru, if you dropped a Mana Maze vs me, I might be just a little sad. It seems I had Rifter and CAL mixed up some, so I give myself a big fat OOOPS and smack myself for not sleeping m0re.
As to Wretch- Flash of Insight is one way they pull a win out of nowhere. Plus, it's 2 more points of damage. Damage is good.
I feel like suggesting you run Phyrexian Negators in your board as anti-control cards...I know I would truly hate to be facing down a 5/5 trampler with his 7/7 trampling friend.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
By just a little sad, do you mean Mana Maze does hurt you or doesn't hurt BlackStaff (because I don't think it does when you have artifacts to play inbetween spells or their abilities, right?).
Yay then Wretch comes in vs. Solidarity (for useless cards such as Drake)
Negators are cool, but they don't cost 2 for "synergy" and I can't Dark Ritual it out which is what really helps win. But I suppose it can even be boarded in in matchups like the SSS Natural Order deck. With styluses and vials, I may be able to have a spare permanent to sacrifice when they block with a 1/1 (which is all he had - coiling oracle and llanowar elves) and I can even respond to combat damage or burn by smashing the Negator with a scepter/stylus. So they can work in the deck well... still sad that I don't have Dark Ritual.
For next week, I'm going to give Funeral Charm the chance it deserves, and I'll see how it goes. That is a somewhat 'all round' answer so that I don't auto-lose to Goblins and am somewhat able to have a LITTLE bit to board in vs. control type decks that aren't Solidarity themselves.
I almost want to use Reins of Power vs. Goblins and SSS. At worst its a fog, at best, you attack for lethal or something. It costs 4 and it's not really that amazing, though, so it's a no-go.
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
@ Twinkee: Solidarity doesn't show up in our meta, unless I start playing it, so it's not a problem. For others, I suppose you could do as you please.
I know, I've already suggested him to remove the SB against solidarity because of the obvious absence of solidarity in his (your) format. But when you take the deck to a bigger tourny, the presence of solidarity will be there and wouldn't you want to be prepared for it as well?
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The happiness of a man in this life does not consist in the absence but in the mastery of his passions. - Lord Alfred Tennyson
By just a little sad, do you mean Mana Maze does hurt you or doesn't hurt BlackStaff (because I don't think it does when you have artifacts to play inbetween spells or their abilities, right?).
Mana Maze means I can't kill more than one thing a turn unless I happen to have one of the six artifacts in my hand to play. It also means that I can't attempt to flush out what I don't like (i.e. countermagic, even though I know you run none) with a Duress followed by Hymn.
It slows me. For a minute or two.
Then again, I'm already slower than molasses, as several users have pointed out.
You, on the other hand, should attempt to smash face as quickly as possible vs control decks, because the longer you wait, the more chance your opponent has to establish board control.
I'm glad you decided on Charm over Darkblast- it's versatile Swampwalk is even relevant vs Deadguy and stuff like it...though I'd probably use it to off the Shade or something.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Isamaru, I don't know if I mentioned this, but I am impressed with just about everything you do concerning this game and this website.
I worked hard on Dirt during the months it was hot (it has probably improved about as far as it can). I believe that I did a good job on making the opening post an informative source for the deck for anyone looking to learn how to play it.
I believe that you have outdone my own attempt in just about every way.
Also, now that I have played against this deck, I can say that your efforts have paid off. As far as I am concerned this is the only legitimately competitive version anywhere of Hunted Horror aggro-combo-control, or whatever it is. The reason is because you did what few are willing or able to. You worked your a$$ off.
Plus, as a competitor, I am thoroughly impressed with your willingness to research and test matchups. And as a player you make few mistakes and understand timing like few others (especially at your age).
I would say that this deck is currently at the point where only a player experienced with the deck can truly offer the kind of tweaking input you need. Perhaps some of us should take up the baton at some point and build it ourselves. I hope my life permits such an effort.
I would like to add that we at this website could really push the envelope for deck-building if we could manage to come together in such a way.[/Jerry Maguire moment]
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
I know, I've already suggested him to remove the SB against solidarity because of the obvious absence of solidarity in his (your) format. But when you take the deck to a bigger tourny, the presence of solidarity will be there and wouldn't you want to be prepared for it as well?
Agreed, I was saying that we still need to keep it in mind. But for our store I'm going to concentrate next week on Funeral Charm + Infest.
Quote from Avatar of Kokusho »
I'm glad you decided on Charm over Darkblast- it's versatile
So I'm hoping that Funeral Charm can be the extra 4 discard spells (12) that would hurt Solidarity long enough for me to win with a Horror.
WHOA I just realized there was a second page to the thread!
Perhaps some of us should take up the baton at some point and build it ourselves. I hope my life permits such an effort.
I would like to add that we at this website could really push the envelope for deck-building if we could manage to come together in such a way.[/Jerry Maguire moment]
Finn thats probably the best compliment I've ever received in my life, and an even bigger one that you and/or Avatar of Kokusho will take the deck up.
Quote from Avatar of Kokusho »
I'd build it and even play with it...despite the Islands..if I could find Despotic Scepters and the like!
Don't worry there's only 7 Islands, and they are all tainted with the color you love making them bearable.
I'm flattered here to the point where I'm speechless... err- Perhaps I should go down a pricing of the deck quickly! The thing to remember is you probably have almost every single one of these cards - the ones you dont have are $1 rares or cheaper! The difficult part is the dual lands if you don't play those colors normally.
The news today (besides the forum working together ;)) is that I entered the Magic-League.com Legacy Tournament Trial and got 2nd place out of 59 players. Here are the decklists. I won every game I played except for the final round... Mountain. Lacky. Lose. :'( How could I be stupid enough to not take the Defense Grids out for Funeral Charm? I even was doing just that in real life WHILE I was signing up for the tournament... Greh.. Note to self, Jitte SUCKS vs. Goblins contrary to popular belief. I am going to write up a summary / description of the games after I go eat dinner - I'll be back soon
I'll probably put the game descriptions two posts down from here, and also in a "spoiler" on the first post.
I'll come back to edit this for specific descriptions, but here's a short list of the 6 matchups in order:
IGGYpop
BG Deed/LD
Angel Stompy
UW Weenie + Control
Suicide Black
Vial Goblins
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Hmm... I think you could have a good hope still though: can you borrow the Underground Seas from anyone you know or trust? That would be the best way to do it, I think. You only really have to have 3 to get accurate results, but 1 is minimum (if you have that many fetchlands.) You have the rest of the deck though? Don't you love being able to use cards you already have to build a deck quickly... it's a satisfying feeling.
Gilded Drake should be $5 and you can probably get all 6 trinkets for around $3-4... unless you're FORCED to pick them out of a dollar rare box / buy them for dollar-each price on eBay. It's actually cheaper to buy them foil... wait a minute I can send you 2 of my other FOIL Tel-Jilad Styluses in the mail - heck, I can send you some Hunted Horrors if you want too. Same goes for Finn, of course
Not exactly infested by Goblins, but infesting them right back is a good idea hehe
aggroking said he was a "noob to Legacy [usually plays 1.x and 2], but can still play the deck and win because of its brokeness" or something to that effect.
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
I have a set of fetches, so that's not really an issue. Plus, I'm reasonably certain I could borrow Seas from someone. I may have Styluses somewhere in the sea of commons and uncommons in my house..that is, if my oldest son hasn't decided to snack on them yet.
The worst thing is, though, that the sideboard I run would have to be anti-Solidarity...as it's disgustingly popular in this area. My local area usually plays:
Solidarity (3-4) Goblins (2-5, depending on who borrows my bro-in-law's deck) Angel Stompy ( usually 2) RGSA (The guy who plays this...loses) That kobold deck (one...badly) and a 10 year old kid who plays a mono blue control deck. (Do you even have to ask?? This is the kid who says Pernicious Deed isn't worth countering!) Oh, and one guy who plays Enchantress.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
I have a set of fetches, so that's not really an issue. Plus, I'm reasonably certain I could borrow Seas from someone. I may have Styluses somewhere in the sea of commons and uncommons in my house..that is, if my oldest son hasn't decided to snack on them yet.
good good good
Quote from Avatar of Kokusho »
The worst thing is, though, that the sideboard I run would have to be anti-Solidarity...as it's disgustingly popular in this area. My local area usually plays:
Solidarity (3-4) Goblins (2-5, depending on who borrows my bro-in-law's deck) Angel Stompy ( usually 2) RGSA (The guy who plays this...loses) That kobold deck (one...badly) and a 10 year old kid who plays a mono blue control deck. (Do you even have to ask?? This is the kid who says Pernicious Deed isn't worth countering!) Oh, and one guy who plays Enchantress.
Then adjust accordingly. Heck, room for 4 Mana Maze can definitely be made, but I've won games vs. solidarity on good draws with 3 discard spells in the opening hand. Goblins you will have to sideboard against too - Infest and Funeral Charm maybe (and then less Mana Mazes and/or Defense Grids are needed). As for Angel Stopmy, only Parallax Wave complicates things beyond winnable terms - Pithing Needle. RGSA? - Needle is our help again. Kobold deck... will this be difficult for you to beat? Win the roll then duress quickly. MUC? This shouldn't give you problems. You guys are strong Legacy players meaning you can beat players even in a should-be difficult matchup. Enchantress could be difficult.
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Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
It's my decklist he plays. Therefore, I know EVERY FREAKING CARD in his deck. What would happen is that he'd drop turn 3 Confinement as a 3 mana Fog...and possibly run out of gas in the combo and have to sac the Confinement.
He doesn't have Moats either.:D The lack of mass board hate, though, would worry me some. Plus, he's smart and boards Compost.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Let's hope you don't face him - but if you end up worried board some tech in there if you can think of anything and there's room. The only option vs. Enchantments are Echoing Truth - and then sealing the deal with a Duress/Hymn to Recoil. This is all assuming that you'll really end up running it.... Will you? If so what day does the tournament run on?
Finn, keep me posted. If you need anything I can send by mail, if you have any questions, or need anything, just tell me. Don't feel obligated to help immediately, I know you have things to do. Take your time; anything you are able to do to help is always appreciated.
As for anyone reading the thread that is somewhat bored with this conversation (sorry :p) I will be posting a description of the games by tomorrow on the front page / first post if you'd be interested in reading it
EDIT: Instead, I'm just going to attach the 5 game logs I saved (forgot to save the Suicide Black matchup, but it was somewhat simple and boring and can describe it later if anyone wants to know what happened).
While netdecking and testing VileHorror i thought about Biorhythm. Sure its really expensive, off-color and crappy but still you're always the one with creatures while playing VH. That made me think.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
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Please see this thread.
It is just an odd predicament that in order to advance the deck, it was necessary to lose its original meaning. Depressing, but true as well in life in general.
Also, take time to finally go out and get fresh air, finish homework on time, and spend time with your family now. Enjoy life.
Introduction and Consideration:
Two years have been spent on this deck by myself and others. I have spent countless hours on each proportion, on each card choice, on each sideboard choice. It has changed with the metagame shifts, some in favor of the deck concept, others against it. With the printing of Tarmogoyf and the un-errata of Phyrexian Dreadnought, the time is ripe for playing Vile Horror, the best truly rogue deck I know of, as long as it stays rogue, that is... what a paradox.
In light of this, please respect my efforts by giving credit where it is due. If you should play my deck, do it for me or do it for the thread as a group by citing your source (MTGSalvation Legacy Forum / Stephen Judd). I asked for help and am glad I got it, but I want to make sure it doesn't all go unnoticed.
Things I Love to See:
Ivory Mask
Jackal Pup
Reanimator
Slower Janky Burn
Very Large Creatures
Aggro Decks with larger creatures / Rancor
Isochron Scepter
Land Destruction, especially without Discard (but need Vial)
Chalice of the Void
Supression Field
Powder Keg - no longer bad
Engineered Explosives - no longer bad
Goblin Lacky - no longer bad
Swords to Plowshares (not so so bad)
Akroma's Vengeance
Nevinyrral's Disk
Null Rod
Energy Flux
Multiple Pithing Needles
Crime//Punishment
Simic Sky Swallower & Plated Slagwurm
Haunting Echoes
Matchup Difficulty Levels:
(These are generalizations in some cases, so please don't take offense or argue over speculation)
Reanimator and Graveyard Strategies
Targettable-Fat Beatdown Decks / Low-land-count Stompy (G/GB/GBu)
RG Aggro / things with Rancor, Kird Ape, often with nice big guys like Iwamori (steal) and Winter Orb (vial)
Decks that utilize Goblin Welder (usually)
UG Madness - it seems strange, but Gilded Drake usually wins this, along with Horror, Wretch, and other graveyard hate. It has really been an easy matchup, especially now with Pongify.
Affinity - again, for some reason this is rediculously easy.
RGSA usually
Life from the Loam / Assault Loam decks - usually (postboard).
Terrageddon - Drake Take Smash. Might need Annul or FoW for SB Null Rods.
43 Land - haven't tested with sideboard in, but I think postboard it should be okay.
Angel Stompy - Not a great matchup, but Pongify, Drake, Needle, and ProWhite from sideboard help a lot.
Solidarity - I haven't lost a game to it yet, but I always get nervous
IGGY Pop - not too too bad, but of course there is always the possibility of a crazy draw - Stifle in sideboard helps a lot, unless Defense Grid stops it.
"Medium to Bad" Matchups:
Threshold - has improved a lot with the more recent variations
Goblins - this matchup has gotten better with Sage and Pongify, but Goblins is the best aggro deck in the format, so...
Burn - can outrace Horror without Hymn backup, but Horror can't be easily burned. Creatureless burn, of course, is more difficult by far.
Discard / Suicide Strategies - if on the play, usually can survive. If a Confidant can stay out for more than a turn or so, it is easier to win.
Pox - this is really quite annoying, but Sage of Epityr has helped a lot... Trinisphere, though, really screws things up.
Meathooks - Untargettable... it's do-able, but quite difficult. CounterSliver has really become a problem lately, but ProWhite and Engineered Explosives help a bit.
UW/r/b Fish - often very troublesome, using a lot of Daze-stuff, cheap creatures, Jitte, cheap card advantage, etc. (almost similar to Meathooks)
"Bad to Horrible" Matchups:
MUC - not too bad, but Vedalken Shackles is VERY annoying pre-board and Powder Keg kills... MUC doesn't see that much play, I hope.
Truffle Shuffle, Dirt - Pernicious Deed and Swords to Plowshares, board control, Haunting Echoes...
Landstill - pretty bad matchup... board control
Faerie Stompy - SoFI is a problem here too, but it's Chalice that hurts most.
Stax - Quite hard to beat with 4 Trinisphere... Ensnaring Bridge, Chalice, etc.
Tournament Reports:
Here's a short list of the 6 matchups in order:
IGGYpop
BG Deed/LD
Angel Stompy
UW Weenie + Control
Suicide Black
Vial Goblins
The Game Logs are attached in this post.
Some History:
http://forums.mtgnews.com/showthread.php?t=196753 RB - Eww
http://forums.mtgnews.com/showthread.php?t=197815 FoW - Still rough
http://forums.mtgnews.com/showthread.php?t=198533 Shade - Almost there
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=29475 Most Recent, here on MTGS
3 Threads Started at each MTG Forum stirred about by the Magic-League Tournament Win:
Wizards http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9893109
Source http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4105
SCG http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=631183
SCG Mirror http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=631188
SCG Recent http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=301403
Looking for VH: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=13232036
Japanese List
German Forum 1
German Forum 2
Italian Pikula Thread mentions Stronghold from VH
Italian gentlemen took VH to a tournament and did well
3 Hypnotic Specter
4 Hunted Horror
1 Unholy Strength
2 Brand
0 Lightning Greaves
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
4 Diabolic Edict
1 Skeletal Scrying
2 Moonlight Bargain
4 Tel-Jilad Stylus
3 Despotic Scepter
2 Tainted Peak
2 Mountain
7 Swamp
4 Badland
4 Lotus Petal
4 Gilded Drake
3 Dark Confidant
3 Nantuko Shade
1 Hand of Cruelty
4 Dimir Infiltrator
4 Lim-Dul’s Vault
4 Tel-Jilad Stylus
3 Despotic Scepter
4 Æther Vial
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
3 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Underground River
1 Watery Grave
7 Swamp
3 Tainted Isle
4 Gilded Drake
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nantuko Shade
1 Hand of Cruelty
3 Dimir Infiltrator
4 Lim-Dul’s Vault
4 Tel-Jilad Stylus
3 Despotic Scepter
4 Æther Vial
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
3 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Underground River
1 Watery Grave
7 Swamp
3 Tainted Isle
4 Gilded Drake
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nantuko Shade
4 Shield Sphere
3 Dimir Infiltrator
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Echoing Truth
3 Despotic Scepter
4 Æther Vial
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Underground River
2 Watery Grave
7 Swamp
3 Tainted Isle
Latest Decklist Since Last Thread:
4 Gilded Drake
4 Dark Confidant
4 Dimir Infiltrator
4 Echoing Truth
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Tel-Jilad Stylus
4 Despotic Scepter
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Underground Sea
1 Watery Grave
6 Swamp
2 Tainted Isle
4 Pithing Needle
3 Withered Wretch
3 Engineered Plague
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Mana Maze
2 Defense Grid
What About Brand?
Though I have strayed away from Brand after trying it, there is a close, simultaneously-developed Rule 216.1a concept (by UrDraco).
My variation on his concept would be something like -5 Stylus/Scepter, -3 Infiltrator, -1 Echoing Truth, -4 Stifle, +3 Mystical Tutor, +4 Brand, +2 Engineered Explosives (mainboard), +4 Brainstorm to my current list, and then using a BUr mana base with 4 Forbidden Orchard and 6 fetchlands.
Thanks to:
Thank you to R&Doom at Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe for the classic banner!
Thank you to Craven at Epic Graphics for the second header banner!
bladewing019
Apokalypse Kid & Faeren Lord of Carlisle
magicianofthought
The_grey_king
Shindig_Ascension
z38gm
pooispoois
MD
MorgulLord
MultaniMan3000
Finn
Avatar of Kokusho
Orion_Pax
Viroid
SapphireTri
Sr. Kitty & Belgareth
The_valdrox
Twinkee
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
Thanks and Love:
The Entire group:)
This card is Mana Breach.
You say you have a tough time vs Solidarity and Rifter...well, if I remember correctly, Rifter uses Confinement locks. I hear Mana Breach is pretty decent vs things like that.
So for Solidarity...if they have to bounce an island for every spell they play, they'll run out of land in a very short time.
Think about it, maybe?
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Rifter doesn't use the confinement lock as far as I know. They just cast Humility and then slice and dice the board up and laugh at the opponent's face. Most of their stuff can be cycled, so that'll bypass the mana breach. They can just cycle a large degree of justice and call it a day.
Nice find for Solidarity though
Or Night of Souls' Betrayal, if you want to go there. Not like it's gonna hurt YOUR guys....
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Either way you should be running multiples of the anti-solidarity spells in my opinion.
This was addressed in the last thread. He HAS tried it before (once again, I am probably the second most knowledgeable person on this deck. I test with Isamaru 24/7, and also use the deck occasionally).
@ Twinkee: Solidarity doesn't show up in our meta, unless I start playing it, so it's not a problem. For others, I suppose you could do as you please.
I suppose if we focused more around Standstill, we could even transmute for it, but here the point is that Mana Breach doesn't stop all [our] spells from being played. Transmute is activated, Vial, Stronghold, scepters, and even if we play a few spells, It may even accelerate our mana if we don't play land that turn!
It may, sadly, only hurt a few different decks, and only in the early game... and it may accelerate them in that fashion too... but some decks would definitely be hurt by it. I'm not 100% sure on it one way or the other. It just may not come down fast enough, although I should give it a chance.
As for Solidarity, this would obviously stop it (but not completely like Mana Maze), but for Rifter it doesnt help (as has been said 3 times now sorry to repeat it), and yes, Solidarity is NOT played at our store (but still needs to be considered) and Rifter isn't played either (but may be built soon by someone I saw). So there are arguements for and against Mana Breach and Mana Maze. What is the consensus on each?
I forgot about boarding plagues vs. Rifter, but it may be smarter to only drop the plague after they cycle the Decree. Not only does this keep a card to bluff a counterspell with (always a good technique in a blue deck that doesn't actually have countermagic), but it also stops them from Disenchanting the plague before cycling AND from simply making Angels instead if they know you have it.
Mana Maze helps vs. Burn and Solidarity (almost exclusively, sadly) but I don't know if Mana Breach could be disruptive enough to the opponant to be worth not only the mana, but the slot in the sideboard if it's getting full already.
Sad, but true; as such, there would be 2-3 Mana Maze in the board if Solidarity / burn / mono-colored decks of sorts should be present. Quick Question: is boarding in Withered Wretch worth it in the worst case scenario that your "best" move is removing their Flash of Insights?
Keep your eye on the first post of the thread as I'll be changing a bit of it and updating it. I am going to change the "Matchups to Improve Upon" area and probably add/modify something to the effect of "Strategies" vs. certain decks, or rather just "Sideboarding Strategies."
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
As to Wretch- Flash of Insight is one way they pull a win out of nowhere. Plus, it's 2 more points of damage. Damage is good.
I feel like suggesting you run Phyrexian Negators in your board as anti-control cards...I know I would truly hate to be facing down a 5/5 trampler with his 7/7 trampling friend.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Yay then Wretch comes in vs. Solidarity (for useless cards such as Drake)
Negators are cool, but they don't cost 2 for "synergy" and I can't Dark Ritual it out which is what really helps win. But I suppose it can even be boarded in in matchups like the SSS Natural Order deck. With styluses and vials, I may be able to have a spare permanent to sacrifice when they block with a 1/1 (which is all he had - coiling oracle and llanowar elves) and I can even respond to combat damage or burn by smashing the Negator with a scepter/stylus. So they can work in the deck well... still sad that I don't have Dark Ritual.
For next week, I'm going to give Funeral Charm the chance it deserves, and I'll see how it goes. That is a somewhat 'all round' answer so that I don't auto-lose to Goblins and am somewhat able to have a LITTLE bit to board in vs. control type decks that aren't Solidarity themselves.
I almost want to use Reins of Power vs. Goblins and SSS. At worst its a fog, at best, you attack for lethal or something. It costs 4 and it's not really that amazing, though, so it's a no-go.
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
I know, I've already suggested him to remove the SB against solidarity because of the obvious absence of solidarity in his (your) format. But when you take the deck to a bigger tourny, the presence of solidarity will be there and wouldn't you want to be prepared for it as well?
Mana Maze means I can't kill more than one thing a turn unless I happen to have one of the six artifacts in my hand to play. It also means that I can't attempt to flush out what I don't like (i.e. countermagic, even though I know you run none) with a Duress followed by Hymn.
It slows me. For a minute or two.
Then again, I'm already slower than molasses, as several users have pointed out.
You, on the other hand, should attempt to smash face as quickly as possible vs control decks, because the longer you wait, the more chance your opponent has to establish board control.
I'm glad you decided on Charm over Darkblast- it's versatile Swampwalk is even relevant vs Deadguy and stuff like it...though I'd probably use it to off the Shade or something.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
I worked hard on Dirt during the months it was hot (it has probably improved about as far as it can). I believe that I did a good job on making the opening post an informative source for the deck for anyone looking to learn how to play it.
I believe that you have outdone my own attempt in just about every way.
Also, now that I have played against this deck, I can say that your efforts have paid off. As far as I am concerned this is the only legitimately competitive version anywhere of Hunted Horror aggro-combo-control, or whatever it is. The reason is because you did what few are willing or able to. You worked your a$$ off.
Plus, as a competitor, I am thoroughly impressed with your willingness to research and test matchups. And as a player you make few mistakes and understand timing like few others (especially at your age).
I would say that this deck is currently at the point where only a player experienced with the deck can truly offer the kind of tweaking input you need. Perhaps some of us should take up the baton at some point and build it ourselves. I hope my life permits such an effort.
I would like to add that we at this website could really push the envelope for deck-building if we could manage to come together in such a way.[/Jerry Maguire moment]
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
So I'm hoping that Funeral Charm can be the extra 4 discard spells (12) that would hurt Solidarity long enough for me to win with a Horror.
WHOA I just realized there was a second page to the thread!
Finn thats probably the best compliment I've ever received in my life, and an even bigger one that you and/or Avatar of Kokusho will take the deck up.
Don't worry there's only 7 Islands, and they are all tainted with the color you love making them bearable.
I'm flattered here to the point where I'm speechless... err- Perhaps I should go down a pricing of the deck quickly! The thing to remember is you probably have almost every single one of these cards - the ones you dont have are $1 rares or cheaper! The difficult part is the dual lands if you don't play those colors normally. The news today (besides the forum working together ;)) is that I entered the Magic-League.com Legacy Tournament Trial and got 2nd place out of 59 players. Here are the decklists. I won every game I played except for the final round... Mountain. Lacky. Lose. :'( How could I be stupid enough to not take the Defense Grids out for Funeral Charm? I even was doing just that in real life WHILE I was signing up for the tournament... Greh.. Note to self, Jitte SUCKS vs. Goblins contrary to popular belief. I am going to write up a summary / description of the games after I go eat dinner - I'll be back soon
I'll probably put the game descriptions two posts down from here, and also in a "spoiler" on the first post.
I'll come back to edit this for specific descriptions, but here's a short list of the 6 matchups in order:
IGGYpop
BG Deed/LD
Angel Stompy
UW Weenie + Control
Suicide Black
Vial Goblins
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
I am almost willing to bet that I know the user who took first if you tell me their username..I used to play quite often on M-L (Name was Dragon_Lady)
<$20 4 Gilded Drake- only have 3
<$1 2 Tel-Jilad Stylus
<$4 4 Despotic Scepter-...but dollar rares? woohoo
~$125 4 Underground Sea- ouch...own 0.
It looks like fun, and at a decent event, it could throw everyone off to the point that I could do rather well...hmm..
Oh, and if your area is infested with Goblins, Infest 'em right back, by all means.:D
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Gilded Drake should be $5 and you can probably get all 6 trinkets for around $3-4... unless you're FORCED to pick them out of a dollar rare box / buy them for dollar-each price on eBay. It's actually cheaper to buy them foil... wait a minute I can send you 2 of my other FOIL Tel-Jilad Styluses in the mail - heck, I can send you some Hunted Horrors if you want too. Same goes for Finn, of course
Not exactly infested by Goblins, but infesting them right back is a good idea hehe
aggroking said he was a "noob to Legacy [usually plays 1.x and 2], but can still play the deck and win because of its brokeness" or something to that effect.
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
I have a set of fetches, so that's not really an issue. Plus, I'm reasonably certain I could borrow Seas from someone. I may have Styluses somewhere in the sea of commons and uncommons in my house..that is, if my oldest son hasn't decided to snack on them yet.
The worst thing is, though, that the sideboard I run would have to be anti-Solidarity...as it's disgustingly popular in this area. My local area usually plays:
Solidarity (3-4)
Goblins (2-5, depending on who borrows my bro-in-law's deck)
Angel Stompy ( usually 2)
RGSA (The guy who plays this...loses)
That kobold deck (one...badly)
and a 10 year old kid who plays a mono blue control deck. (Do you even have to ask?? This is the kid who says Pernicious Deed isn't worth countering!)
Oh, and one guy who plays Enchantress.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Then adjust accordingly. Heck, room for 4 Mana Maze can definitely be made, but I've won games vs. solidarity on good draws with 3 discard spells in the opening hand. Goblins you will have to sideboard against too - Infest and Funeral Charm maybe (and then less Mana Mazes and/or Defense Grids are needed). As for Angel Stopmy, only Parallax Wave complicates things beyond winnable terms - Pithing Needle. RGSA? - Needle is our help again. Kobold deck... will this be difficult for you to beat? Win the roll then duress quickly. MUC? This shouldn't give you problems. You guys are strong Legacy players meaning you can beat players even in a should-be difficult matchup. Enchantress could be difficult.
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
It's my decklist he plays. Therefore, I know EVERY FREAKING CARD in his deck. What would happen is that he'd drop turn 3 Confinement as a 3 mana Fog...and possibly run out of gas in the combo and have to sac the Confinement.
He doesn't have Moats either.:D The lack of mass board hate, though, would worry me some. Plus, he's smart and boards Compost.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Finn, keep me posted. If you need anything I can send by mail, if you have any questions, or need anything, just tell me. Don't feel obligated to help immediately, I know you have things to do. Take your time; anything you are able to do to help is always appreciated.
As for anyone reading the thread that is somewhat bored with this conversation (sorry :p) I will be posting a description of the games by tomorrow on the front page / first post if you'd be interested in reading it
EDIT: Instead, I'm just going to attach the 5 game logs I saved (forgot to save the Suicide Black matchup, but it was somewhat simple and boring and can describe it later if anyone wants to know what happened).
Celebrating 3 years of open-minded acceptance, indispensable help, great advice, and incalculably-creative deck-design... Thanks for all the magic!
So, basically, what I do is try and kill my opponents as quickly as I can...while denying them access to the little creatures I give them.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.