Hi everyone!
I would like to join your discussion=) because have some additional thoughts which are not mentioned above.
I think comboelves have to run Emrakul on 2 turn, at least 3 - otherwise our chances to win tend to zero.
Something like that:
T1 -> Forest, Sentinel(or other elf for 1 mana)
T2 -> Forest, Attack by Sentinel, tap Forest - Heritage Druid, tap Forest - Quirion Ranger, tap 3 elves, Glimpse and go on to the win: play elf-draw-tap-...-play Emrakul, next turn is our and we win.
From that sample you can see that the Quirion Ranger much more preferable on 2nd turn to Wirewood Symbiote due to his tribal type.
Yes - I absolutely agree that his (WS) ability is really useful (especially with Elvish Visionary and Quirion Ranger), but tribal synergy is preferable here.
His ability could be covered by Cloudstone Curio - and I believe it could be better then WS because could be used not only once by turn.
Fetch-lands must be as a filter of topdeck
Also in current meta we need appropriate responses for Mental Misstep. And I think the best answer on MM - is MM in response=)
Appreciate for your comments because above is a my personal thoughts without practice tests(just in Solo mode in MWS)and I am planning to run this deck on next tournament (now I play NOElves)
P.S. sorry for my language - english is not my native language
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-------------- Playing Legacy:
Jund : Belcher (all variations) : Dredge (all variations)
==============
My altered works gallery and sellings
What is your meta?
Looks like you minimize answers for Dredge...
And I play my NOElves half a year and now exclude all Krosan Grips from SB - its useless - VShaman, Zealot and Terastodon completely cover ench\art worries
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-------------- Playing Legacy:
Jund : Belcher (all variations) : Dredge (all variations)
==============
My altered works gallery and sellings
anyone sneaking a singleton VITALIZE into their elf combo? or what about TANGLE WIRE stalling when you cant get there? my favorite STAFF OF DOMINATION is a great finisher. and when running GREEN SUN ZENITH why not sideboard VEXING SHUSHER against harsh counter or U heavy meta
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PARAMEDIC/FIREFIGHTER
YUMA, AZ
I started in SAGA and quit at kamigawa... just came back in nov,2010
I love staff of domination because it allows us to be lazy haha. I've never tried vitalize, but I've never had a problem with tapping and untapping since I run 4x both Rangers and Wirewood Symbiotes. But you can always try and see how it works out. I'm not really a fan of tangle wire outside of staxx decks.
im only running 10 lands with 4x land grant. and just stuck the vitalize in as a psudo mana source... and like i said just a single. rarely ever see it. but i also run 4x each of the wirewood and ranger
the tangle wire comes out about 50% in game 2. but its nice lock piece to drop on t2 and lock out the opponent a tab and kinda time walk for a bit.
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PARAMEDIC/FIREFIGHTER
YUMA, AZ
I started in SAGA and quit at kamigawa... just came back in nov,2010
this is my turn 3 combo elf deck that ive fiddled with for a long time. i use to have a living wish MD for the kill but now it's sole purpose is combo ASAP...
What is your meta?
Looks like you minimize answers for Dredge...
And I play my NOElves half a year and now exclude all Krosan Grips from SB - its useless - VShaman, Zealot and Terastodon completely cover ench\art worries
Those cards are bad against deed and humility which are becoming more popular.
Why don't people run Birchlore Rangers as well as a secondary Heritage druid? Its a 1-drop that can potentially get you closer to comboing off faster?
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Cubes:
360 Powered Cube
400 Common/Uncommon Cube
Edh Decks:
Uril, The Miststalker RGW
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G
Norin, The Wary R
Retired Generals
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa G
Maaga, Traitor To Mortals B
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails W
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs R
Savra, Queen of the Golgari BG
Stonebrow, Krosan Hero RG
Kemba, Kha Regent W
Captain Sisay GW
Darien, King of Kheldor W
Geth, Lord of the Vault B
Haven't decide the sideboard yet, you guys have some ideas for the sideboard? And what do you think of the list? Please do comment, thanks.
what is this??? do you use the summoners pact to fetch a spirit guide for free G?? lol but seriously what are all the creature tutors for? it seems very over the top with several win more options...
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PARAMEDIC/FIREFIGHTER
YUMA, AZ
I started in SAGA and quit at kamigawa... just came back in nov,2010
what is this??? do you use the summoners pact to fetch a spirit guide for free G?? lol but seriously what are all the creature tutors for? it seems very over the top with several win more options...
Pact used as when I'm nearly on winning condition, I can tutor Nettle Sentinel or untappers for free
Haven't tested it yet, still looking for opponent.
Umm... most elf lists run 8 to 11 tutors between zenith, wish, and pact. This is because you are a combo deck and need to tutor for whatever piece of the combo you are missing so you can go off faster and more reliably. His deck is already very focused, except I personally think that crossroads is trash, but I guess it works for some people.
i still vote that although your deck seems ok... it needs focus and tuning... also what is your meta?
Haven't seen most of Legacy deck coz I'm new here But I saw Affinity deck, Enchantress and Thopter Foundry deck... So what sideboard usually most people here have?
Umm... most elf lists run 8 to 11 tutors between zenith, wish, and pact. This is because you are a combo deck and need to tutor for whatever piece of the combo you are missing so you can go off faster and more reliably. His deck is already very focused, except I personally think that crossroads is trash, but I guess it works for some people.
Hmm crossroads is to make mana rampers like Archdruid and Titania haste, so you'll get bunch lots of mana with only 1 mana used. It's worth it I think!
Unless you're going for grapeshot or need some color other than green in your deck, why not use Heritage Druid instead. Instead of tapping two for 1 mana, tap three for 3 mana, and keep the combo going more efficiently.
Just my take on it.
Note: All these are combo rather than aggro/NO (there were no aggro/NO at all :P). One uses Vengevine as kill while all the rest use Emrakul.
Fastbond is banned in Legacy.
Gaea's is however you many you want, but just remember they're legendary, so I would do 2 max unless you really wanna be explosive and go for four to ensure one early on in the game.
I run both GSZ and Pact but you can also run living wish instead of Pact if you wanna use your sideboard as a wish board.
The deck obviously has quite a few of various niche cards that the player decides if they want it depending on their meta and playstyle. It honestly comes down to most of the time, you playing it in your meta and seeing if it fits your playstyle.
This is the list I'm running, very similar to the second decklist from the OP. I'm surprised no one is using Crop Rotation to ramp up mana fetching Cradles. It helps thin the deck, make it more budget friendly (you no longer need 4 Cradles to make sure you draw them) and frees space it would otherwise be dedicated to land.
I almost wish Glimpse of Nature cost 1G, so that Boseiju, Who Shelters All could effect it. I'm 1/2 considering Autumn's Veil, or Overmaster. This whole deck seems to revolve around Glimpse resolving, but I have 0 experience with Vintage, and 0 experience with my meta...
Is pure combo imho. At least I never tried to go the aggro road when playing with it. I found 2 Priest to work better than having 1 priest and 1 Spirit Guide. She serves as a lifeguard in case I can't go off in one turn.
Regal Force is much better than the cards you mentiones just because it's a creature, and thus fetchable with the 7 tutors MB.
If you run Thorn of Amethyst main deck against blue (which isn't a bad choice in my opinion) then it does infact cost 1G. Only thing is you should get it in play. I had the same idea.
Actually I think Vexing Shusher would do the job much better, and it tutorable with all the creature tutors.
Unless you're going for grapeshot or need some color other than green in your deck, why not use Heritage Druid instead. Instead of tapping two for 1 mana, tap three for 3 mana, and keep the combo going more efficiently.
Just my take on it.
I still use Birchlore Rangers even though I no longer have a Grapeshot kill because it can allow me to start comboing with only one Nettle Sentinel and no tutors. Granted that can be a pretty risky move, if you play carefully and remember all your triggers I've been able to start comboing this way and eventually draw into a Heritage Druid or more Nettle Sentinels or a Summoner's Pact.
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I would like to join your discussion=) because have some additional thoughts which are not mentioned above.
I think comboelves have to run Emrakul on 2 turn, at least 3 - otherwise our chances to win tend to zero.
Something like that:
T1 -> Forest, Sentinel(or other elf for 1 mana)
T2 -> Forest, Attack by Sentinel, tap Forest - Heritage Druid, tap Forest - Quirion Ranger, tap 3 elves, Glimpse and go on to the win: play elf-draw-tap-...-play Emrakul, next turn is our and we win.
From that sample you can see that the Quirion Ranger much more preferable on 2nd turn to Wirewood Symbiote due to his tribal type.
Yes - I absolutely agree that his (WS) ability is really useful (especially with Elvish Visionary and Quirion Ranger), but tribal synergy is preferable here.
His ability could be covered by Cloudstone Curio - and I believe it could be better then WS because could be used not only once by turn.
Fetch-lands must be as a filter of topdeck
Also in current meta we need appropriate responses for Mental Misstep. And I think the best answer on MM - is MM in response=)
There is potential decklist (at moment w\o SB):
3 Summoner's Pact
1 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Mental Misstep
1 Cloudstone Curio
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Regal Force
2 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Birchlore rangers
4 Misty Rainforest
6 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
P.S. sorry for my language - english is not my native language
Playing Legacy:
Jund : Belcher (all variations) : Dredge (all variations)
==============
My altered works gallery and sellings
What is your meta?
Looks like you minimize answers for Dredge...
And I play my NOElves half a year and now exclude all Krosan Grips from SB - its useless - VShaman, Zealot and Terastodon completely cover ench\art worries
Playing Legacy:
Jund : Belcher (all variations) : Dredge (all variations)
==============
My altered works gallery and sellings
YUMA, AZ
Only good deck.
the tangle wire comes out about 50% in game 2. but its nice lock piece to drop on t2 and lock out the opponent a tab and kinda time walk for a bit.
YUMA, AZ
3 Gaea's Cradle
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Forest
Creatures: [31]
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Quirion Ranger
3 Wirewood Hivemaster
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Heritage Druid
3 Staff of Domination
4 Tangle Wire
Other Spells: [12]
4 Land Grant
4 Genesis Wave
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
2 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
4 Static Orb
4 Multani's Presence
3 Compost
very fun to play. ive won a few GRAND CHAOS MELE with 20-30 people with this deck.
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
3 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
1 Regal Force
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Concordant Crossroads
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Summoner's Pact
LANDS (12)
11 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
Haven't decide the sideboard yet, you guys have some ideas for the sideboard? And what do you think of the list? Please do comment, thanks.
Those cards are bad against deed and humility which are becoming more popular.
360 Powered Cube
400 Common/Uncommon Cube
Edh Decks:
Uril, The Miststalker RGW
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G
Norin, The Wary R
Retired Generals
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa G
Maaga, Traitor To Mortals B
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails W
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs R
Savra, Queen of the Golgari BG
Stonebrow, Krosan Hero RG
Kemba, Kha Regent W
Captain Sisay GW
Darien, King of Kheldor W
Geth, Lord of the Vault B
what is this??? do you use the summoners pact to fetch a spirit guide for free G?? lol but seriously what are all the creature tutors for? it seems very over the top with several win more options...
YUMA, AZ
Pact used as when I'm nearly on winning condition, I can tutor Nettle Sentinel or untappers for free
Haven't tested it yet, still looking for opponent.
YUMA, AZ
Haven't seen most of Legacy deck coz I'm new here But I saw Affinity deck, Enchantress and Thopter Foundry deck... So what sideboard usually most people here have?
Hmm crossroads is to make mana rampers like Archdruid and Titania haste, so you'll get bunch lots of mana with only 1 mana used. It's worth it I think!
I just know that my list, can make turn 2-3 wins most of the times. hahaha
Unless you're going for grapeshot or need some color other than green in your deck, why not use Heritage Druid instead. Instead of tapping two for 1 mana, tap three for 3 mana, and keep the combo going more efficiently.
Just my take on it.
Only good deck.
I'm debating between the differences between Green Sun's Zenith, and Summoner's Pact; play with both? Summoner's Pact for an Elvish Spirit Guide seem's ... explosive - just be careful it's not your face :P.
I'm debating putting in singleton Fastbond (probably not), and Concordant Crossroads (... maybe).
How many Gaea's Cradle?
Cloudstone Curio (note the 'may') & Wirewood Symbiote combo really infinitely/well with Glimpse of Nature.
Here are some decks that placed at legacy tournaments:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=758999
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=831789
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=822780
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=822785
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=825594
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=818393
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=818393
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=815276
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=815277
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=818389
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=812606
Note: All these are combo rather than aggro/NO (there were no aggro/NO at all :P). One uses Vengevine as kill while all the rest use Emrakul.
Fastbond is banned in Legacy.
Gaea's is however you many you want, but just remember they're legendary, so I would do 2 max unless you really wanna be explosive and go for four to ensure one early on in the game.
I run both GSZ and Pact but you can also run living wish instead of Pact if you wanna use your sideboard as a wish board.
The deck obviously has quite a few of various niche cards that the player decides if they want it depending on their meta and playstyle. It honestly comes down to most of the time, you playing it in your meta and seeing if it fits your playstyle.
Only good deck.
this would be a silly infinite combo with or without glimpse... easily infinite mana and with any CIP ability you want to expoite..
but i prefer the staff of domination still.
i dont use either but the scout forced you to end phase and attack... may not be feasible.
YUMA, AZ
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Birchlore Rangers
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Priest of Titania
1 Viridian Zealot
2 Fyndhorn Elves
2 Llanowar Elves
2 Regal Force
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Summoner's Pact
1 Crop Rotation
Lands
2 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Gaea's Cradle
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Null Rod
4 Buried Alive
3 Vengevine
3 Krosan Grip
2 Cabal Therapy
your list looks like a mash up of combo and beats... i mean you need 4x priest 4x archdruid for a base... imho
also 15 land and 1 crop rotate is heavy for my normal builds although i see several people using so many.
and the 2 regal force is weird to me i would much prefer a collective unconscious or genesis wave.
YUMA, AZ
1 Birchlore Rangers
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
1 Joraga Warcaller
3 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
1 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Zealot
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Concordant Crossroads
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Summoner's Pact
Lands
1 Dryad Arbor
13 Forest
2 Gaea's Cradle
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Krosan Grip
1 Mortarpod
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Viridian Shaman
1 Viridian Zealot
I almost wish Glimpse of Nature cost 1G, so that Boseiju, Who Shelters All could effect it. I'm 1/2 considering Autumn's Veil, or Overmaster. This whole deck seems to revolve around Glimpse resolving, but I have 0 experience with Vintage, and 0 experience with my meta...
Is pure combo imho. At least I never tried to go the aggro road when playing with it. I found 2 Priest to work better than having 1 priest and 1 Spirit Guide. She serves as a lifeguard in case I can't go off in one turn.
Regal Force is much better than the cards you mentiones just because it's a creature, and thus fetchable with the 7 tutors MB.
Actually I think Vexing Shusher would do the job much better, and it tutorable with all the creature tutors.
Also to deal with potential creature problems (i.e. Grim Lavamancer, or Peacekeeper), Thornscape Battlemage is an option.
I still use Birchlore Rangers even though I no longer have a Grapeshot kill because it can allow me to start comboing with only one Nettle Sentinel and no tutors. Granted that can be a pretty risky move, if you play carefully and remember all your triggers I've been able to start comboing this way and eventually draw into a Heritage Druid or more Nettle Sentinels or a Summoner's Pact.