You have Aggro/NO Elves, and then you have Combo Elves. Combo Elves relies on quick acceleration through mana creatures and card drawing to play out most of your deck, followed by an alpha strike to take your opponent out.
In all fairness, neither of those two decks are where the Glimpse Elves forums have gone. You should probably represent one of those as well, whether it be IBA's Wish-Elves, or K2's Wish-Elves (IBA's uses GSZ and has a stronger aggro plan, K2's uses Pact and has a faster goldfish). Most players on the Source have heavily criticized the 4 Gaea's Cradles, and the high land count (which I'll admit is necessary to accomodate the Cradles). Also, you misspelled Heritage Druid.
Here's where you can find IBA's build (minus a few goodies such as Cradle and Wasteland in the Board): http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20587-Budget-Decks-My-Attempts
You might simply PM k2thej and IBA for their decklists; that may work best.
they're not where the forums may have gone, but those lists did put up some results. i'm not a fan of nettle sentinel. everyone has preferences on deck choices, I hate nettle sentinel; I don't use them. However, I do know i'm in the minority. Cabal is just using examples, those decks were hopefully tuned for their respective metas. I do like atleast a 1 of crossroads, the nettle + heritage/birchlore has trouble dealing with spot removal.
EDIT: I think it would be best if we tried agreeing on a general "core" and maybe have 1 or two separate lists that most people can live with. Elves! more than most decks allows for a bit more diversity.
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P.S im sorry that this "wall" of text is very scary and menacing but i believe you can do it the lack of gramer and punctuation is because i have a blood fued with it due to the fact when i was four and the teacher said i would die poor and lonely and the kids would dance on my grave when i died because i could not correctly punctuate with commas
Concordant Crossroads allow you to swing for game as opposed to the 1 turn delay. This has nothing to do with being able to tap them for mana.
That's generally done by chaining enough Sentinel/Heritage mana together to cast Emrakul. While Concordant is nice, you most likely tapped most your elves to generate mana and hard to Alpha Strike when all the elves are tapped.
they're not where the forums may have gone, but those lists did put up some results. i'm not a fan of nettle sentinel. everyone has preferences on deck choices, I hate nettle sentinel; I don't use them. However, I do know i'm in the minority. Cabal is just using examples, those decks were hopefully tuned for their respective metas. I do like atleast a 1 of crossroads, the nettle + heritage/birchlore has trouble dealing with spot removal.
EDIT: I think it would be best if we tried agreeing on a general "core" and maybe have 1 or two separate lists that most people can live with. Elves! more than most decks allows for a bit more diversity.
Keep in mind that C_c has just put enough information that serious discussion of the deck can occur. If you want to write up information about the core of the deck, you should and send it to him. The primers should be written by people who have expertise of the decks, not by the mods if they do not.
In all fairness, neither of those two decks are where the Glimpse Elves forums have gone. You should probably represent one of those as well, whether it be IBA's Wish-Elves, or K2's Wish-Elves (IBA's uses GSZ and has a stronger aggro plan, K2's uses Pact and has a faster goldfish). Most players on the Source have heavily criticized the 4 Gaea's Cradles, and the high land count (which I'll admit is necessary to accomodate the Cradles). Also, you misspelled Heritage Druid.
Here's where you can find IBA's build (minus a few goodies such as Cradle and Wasteland in the Board): http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20587-Budget-Decks-My-Attempts
You might simply PM k2thej and IBA for their decklists; that may work best.
Keep in mind that C_c has just put enough information that serious discussion of the deck can occur. If you want to write up information about the core of the deck, you should and send it to him. The primers should be written by people who have expertise of the decks, not by the mods if they do not.
Zirath is correct. I am simply putting up a discussion starter so people can have something of a feel for the deck in addition to having a place to discuss it (this was something you guys told me you wanted, back in one of those 'State of the forum' threads I posted). I simply picked some of the higher placing lists in larger tournaments because, hey, those are the ones that did pretty good.
If you would like to see a proper primer put up, you're more than welcome to write one yourself or see if another poster can.
That's generally done by chaining enough Sentinel/Heritage mana together to cast Emrakul. While Concordant is nice, you most likely tapped most your elves to generate mana and hard to Alpha Strike when all the elves are tapped.
But you don't even want to put in 1 Concordant Crossroads? Man, I was thinking just 1 in the deck lol
First of all i didn't thank Cabal for the primer, thank you. I guess I could help write a primer, however, I have no clue how to do so. I wasn't trying to come off rude. I think the lists he posted were fine. I was bako, k2's list is good, very fast; easier to disrupt. I don't mind those lists. I just got the idea this forum will collapse into each person posting a deck list and not willing to try other people's etc.
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P.S im sorry that this "wall" of text is very scary and menacing but i believe you can do it the lack of gramer and punctuation is because i have a blood fued with it due to the fact when i was four and the teacher said i would die poor and lonely and the kids would dance on my grave when i died because i could not correctly punctuate with commas
So yeah, it's basically a Combo Elf deck that can be turned into a NO Elves if I'm playing against a combo hater.
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11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature. - Maximillian Cohen.
I want to talk about the number of lands and 1-cmc mana elves in this deck.
I have seen decks that run between 13-19 lands, and 4-8 mana elves. What is the justification for different numbers of these cards?
I think the people running more lands are more concerned about mulliganing hands into oblivion because of lack of lands, and having an easier time staring to go off because more lands is more mana. The people with more dorks want to not brick on their glimpses.
The wish version looks ok, but with all these BUG, U/W and Blue control decks everywhere, I really would rather have a sideboard into buried alive/intuition vengevine against them. Another thing is that wishing for an elf costs 2 more mana than pacting for one, even though you do get more bullets when wishing, I guess it's power vs cost. In the list that bakofried listed there were only 2 wirewood symbiote in the entire 75, which I fell is just completely wrong, especially if you're relying on the mana lords to make mana. I would run 4 main and 3 quirion ranger with the fourth ranger in the board.
I think a basic shell for any elf combo deck should be
What do u guys think of a "blue splash" for counters like Mental Misstep and Pact of Negation to protect the combo or your kill card if you dont use Emrakul?
Misstep on Glimpse kinda hurts a lot so if we could misstep that or pact it that turns pretty much a loss into a winnable game.
Edh Decks:
Uril, The Miststalker RGW
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G
Norin, The Wary R
Retired Generals
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa G
Maaga, Traitor To Mortals B
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails W
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs R
Savra, Queen of the Golgari BG
Stonebrow, Krosan Hero RG
Kemba, Kha Regent W
Captain Sisay GW
Darien, King of Kheldor W
Geth, Lord of the Vault B
I wish I could find space for a concordant crossroads, but I just can't. I would also like more Archdruid effects, but can't find room. Furthermore, I have 0 graveyard hate, because I think this deck can just beat graveyard decks anyway.
Yeah but when you pack this disrupt package than you will often draw counter instead of some elf after you play glimpse of nature and youre screwed
except drawing into counters after a glimpse is better than having the glimpse countered. a bunch of elves on the field with counters in hand is not too bad of a position. especially since the decks that pack a lot of counters will have a tough time dealing with a bunch of elves. especially if u could use those elves to cast or search for Regal Force the next turn.
What do u guys think of like a deck with "kill cards" that cost less like vigor or terastodon in the main. Doesn't win right away like emrakul, but they're easier to play, especially off a broken glimpse, and if you have counters in hand its pretty much game. (this is just something i've been thinkin about, i havent tested this at all yet or even have a list yet)
P.S. I'll try to get a list up of what im thinkin. If someone wants to beat me to it thats fine too
I don't understand why do you have 2x Birchlore rangers in your sb. Maybe you can pack some Grave hate instead because cards like Iona, shield of emeria (dredge, reanimator) will destroy you
Birchlore Rangers lets you pay for pacts in the Hive Mind matchup.
Living wish is a great card, don't get me wrong, but I don't like putting it in place for pact. I feel that I would rather want a pact in my hand then wish to get the combo rolling. It's great to grab that nettle for heritage, or that quirion/wirewood for the priest, or even regal to draw some extra. I would like not 4 wishes, but maybe 2 or 3 to draw into when combo, then use if something arises or you need that extra fuel.
I also like more Wirewood Symbiotes in MD since I find them very helpful. And to be honest, sometimes more helpful then Quirion Ranger. Usually you combo out turn 3 or 4, so that's 3 or 4 forests into play. With 4 rangers, you can only use their ability once, but if you run 4 wirewoods and 2-3 rangers, I feel like would benefit more situations than others. Such as if you only a ranger out, use it, bounce it with wirewood, play it again, draw, another untap or if you need some extra draws, bounce up a visionary. I know it only adds two options but I feel still would help a lot. And once again, with pact w/ GSZ, getting either one of these isn't a problem.
I also run a single Staff of Domination because i'm lazy and just gonna get infi mana and infi draw and just call that a game lol. But I really enjoy this deck, you can tweak it any way you like to get your engine rolling but aslong as you have a way, it works out pretty well.
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EDH: Phage, The Untouchable
Only good deck.
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Your mana acceleration comes from Fyndhorn Elves/Llanowar Elves, Priest of Titania, and the "infinite" combination of Nettle Sentinel and Hermitage Druid. With Glimpse of Nature, you chain elves together to draw cards and generate more mana. How you win is up to you. Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Vengevine, Joraga Warcaller or even Kamahl, Fist of Krosa are all options.
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Regal Force
3 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Llanowar Elves
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Vengevine
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Intuition
Sorceries [4]
4 Glimpse of Nature
Lands [18]
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Tropical Island
2 Null Rod
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Seal of Removal
3 Krosan Grip
3 Submerge
1 Birchlore Rangers
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Priest of Titania
1 Viridian Zealot
2 Fyndhorn Elves
2 Llanowar Elves
2 Regal Force
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Summoner's Pact
Sorceries [8]
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Lands [17]
1 Bayou
4 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Buried Alive
3 Vengevine
1 Viridian Shaman
2 Krosan Grip
1 Swamp
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
Here's where you can find IBA's build (minus a few goodies such as Cradle and Wasteland in the Board):
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20587-Budget-Decks-My-Attempts
You might simply PM k2thej and IBA for their decklists; that may work best.
EDIT: I think it would be best if we tried agreeing on a general "core" and maybe have 1 or two separate lists that most people can live with. Elves! more than most decks allows for a bit more diversity.
Concordant Crossroads allow you to swing for game as opposed to the 1 turn delay. This has nothing to do with being able to tap them for mana.
That's generally done by chaining enough Sentinel/Heritage mana together to cast Emrakul. While Concordant is nice, you most likely tapped most your elves to generate mana and hard to Alpha Strike when all the elves are tapped.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Keep in mind that C_c has just put enough information that serious discussion of the deck can occur. If you want to write up information about the core of the deck, you should and send it to him. The primers should be written by people who have expertise of the decks, not by the mods if they do not.
Zirath is correct. I am simply putting up a discussion starter so people can have something of a feel for the deck in addition to having a place to discuss it (this was something you guys told me you wanted, back in one of those 'State of the forum' threads I posted). I simply picked some of the higher placing lists in larger tournaments because, hey, those are the ones that did pretty good.
If you would like to see a proper primer put up, you're more than welcome to write one yourself or see if another poster can.
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
But you don't even want to put in 1 Concordant Crossroads? Man, I was thinking just 1 in the deck lol
Oh well, Emrakul seems solid also.
I still have my deck sleeved, just not playing it... maybe I should.
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Priest of Titania
4x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Wirewood Symbiote
3x Elvish Visionary
3x Fyndhorn Elves
3x Elvish Spirit Guide
2x Birchlore Ranger
1x Viridian Zealot
1x Regal Force
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4x Glimpse of Nature
4x Green Sun's Zenith
Lands: 13
9x Forest
3x Gaea's Cradle
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Natural Order
4x Imperious Perfect
2x Nature's Claim
2x Krosan Grip
1x Terastodon
1x Progenitus
1x Elvish Champion
So yeah, it's basically a Combo Elf deck that can be turned into a NO Elves if I'm playing against a combo hater.
Standard: XDon't play.X
Legacy: BUReanimatorUB
Vintage: URBWGDBRU
I have seen decks that run between 13-19 lands, and 4-8 mana elves. What is the justification for different numbers of these cards?
I play neat decks but not very well.
I think you really really want Quirion Ranger somewhere in your 60 cards.
I think the people running more lands are more concerned about mulliganing hands into oblivion because of lack of lands, and having an easier time staring to go off because more lands is more mana. The people with more dorks want to not brick on their glimpses.
The wish version looks ok, but with all these BUG, U/W and Blue control decks everywhere, I really would rather have a sideboard into buried alive/intuition vengevine against them. Another thing is that wishing for an elf costs 2 more mana than pacting for one, even though you do get more bullets when wishing, I guess it's power vs cost. In the list that bakofried listed there were only 2 wirewood symbiote in the entire 75, which I fell is just completely wrong, especially if you're relying on the mana lords to make mana. I would run 4 main and 3 quirion ranger with the fourth ranger in the board.
I think a basic shell for any elf combo deck should be
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Regal force
For the cards where I didn't list a range, that is at least that number in the 75 with one in the board if you're playing with a wish board.
Misstep on Glimpse kinda hurts a lot so if we could misstep that or pact it that turns pretty much a loss into a winnable game.
Champion?
Perfect?
Druid?
360 Powered Cube
400 Common/Uncommon Cube
Edh Decks:
Uril, The Miststalker RGW
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G
Norin, The Wary R
Retired Generals
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa G
Maaga, Traitor To Mortals B
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails W
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs R
Savra, Queen of the Golgari BG
Stonebrow, Krosan Hero RG
Kemba, Kha Regent W
Captain Sisay GW
Darien, King of Kheldor W
Geth, Lord of the Vault B
The most popular builds either run 4 druid 4 priest, or just 1 priest. You don't really want a bunch of lords that cost 3 mana and don't make mana.
4x Llanowar Elves
3x Fyndhorn Elves
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Heritage Druid
2x Quirion Ranger
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Wirewood Symbiote
3x Priest of Titania
2x Elvish Archdruid
1x Elvish Spirit Guide
1x Regal Force
1x Emrakul, the Eons Torn
1x Viridian Zealot
4x Glimpse of Nature
3x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Summoner's Pact
Lands:
15x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
3x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Vexing Shusher
2x Choke
1x Back to Nature
2x Nature's Claim
2x Krosan Grip
2x Birchlore Ranger
I wish I could find space for a concordant crossroads, but I just can't. I would also like more Archdruid effects, but can't find room. Furthermore, I have 0 graveyard hate, because I think this deck can just beat graveyard decks anyway.
I play neat decks but not very well.
except drawing into counters after a glimpse is better than having the glimpse countered. a bunch of elves on the field with counters in hand is not too bad of a position. especially since the decks that pack a lot of counters will have a tough time dealing with a bunch of elves. especially if u could use those elves to cast or search for Regal Force the next turn.
What do u guys think of like a deck with "kill cards" that cost less like vigor or terastodon in the main. Doesn't win right away like emrakul, but they're easier to play, especially off a broken glimpse, and if you have counters in hand its pretty much game. (this is just something i've been thinkin about, i havent tested this at all yet or even have a list yet)
P.S. I'll try to get a list up of what im thinkin. If someone wants to beat me to it thats fine too
Birchlore Rangers lets you pay for pacts in the Hive Mind matchup.
I play neat decks but not very well.
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Nettle Sentinel
1 Regal Force
1 Terastodon
1 Vigor
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Mental Misstep
2 Pact of Negation
Lands
4 Tropical Island
4 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
Idk how i like it yet, theres other cards i wanna fit in but idk what id take out yet.
Creatures:
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader (alternatively Kamahl, Fist of Krosa)
4 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Nettle Sentinel
4 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Living Wish
2 Elvish Champion
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eternal Witness
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Heritage Druid
1 Nettle Sentinel
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sylvok Replica
1 Terastodon
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Wasteland
Living wish is a great card, don't get me wrong, but I don't like putting it in place for pact. I feel that I would rather want a pact in my hand then wish to get the combo rolling. It's great to grab that nettle for heritage, or that quirion/wirewood for the priest, or even regal to draw some extra. I would like not 4 wishes, but maybe 2 or 3 to draw into when combo, then use if something arises or you need that extra fuel.
I also like more Wirewood Symbiotes in MD since I find them very helpful. And to be honest, sometimes more helpful then Quirion Ranger. Usually you combo out turn 3 or 4, so that's 3 or 4 forests into play. With 4 rangers, you can only use their ability once, but if you run 4 wirewoods and 2-3 rangers, I feel like would benefit more situations than others. Such as if you only a ranger out, use it, bounce it with wirewood, play it again, draw, another untap or if you need some extra draws, bounce up a visionary. I know it only adds two options but I feel still would help a lot. And once again, with pact w/ GSZ, getting either one of these isn't a problem.
I also run a single Staff of Domination because i'm lazy and just gonna get infi mana and infi draw and just call that a game lol. But I really enjoy this deck, you can tweak it any way you like to get your engine rolling but aslong as you have a way, it works out pretty well.
Only good deck.