Well I certainly am not going to be cutting blue, as brainstorm and mystical tutor are too vital. I haven't been testing a lot with the contract, as i was waiting on some feedback. most ANT decks don't even run doomsday, or think of it as the bastardized version.
i've realized that it's a lot easier, and safer, to combo with Doomsday most of the time, and it allows you to misinform your opponent. i love going fetch island top...they immediately put you on thresh/still, and play into your hands. plus with one ANT in the deck, it is just as workable in my build as in others.
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T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
I think the doomsday version of ANT could use infernal contract/cruel bargain alongside meditate...although have you ever lost because of the half life rounded up clause of infernal contract? I'm interested but it seems the only deck you could lose to using the doomsday/infernal contract finish is burn
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I think the doomsday version of ANT could use infernal contract/cruel bargain alongside meditate...although have you ever lost because of the half life rounded up clause of infernal contract? I'm interested but it seems the only deck you could lose to using the doomsday/infernal contract finish is burn
I usually stop my Ad Nauseum at 4. this leaves me room to doomsday + contract if needed. against burn i would stop earlier, and would also try to cast chant/silence before losing gobs of life. moreover, i'd board out silence for angel's grace and make it irrelevant.
that said, there have been some games (not the ones i was short the U) where i would die from a doomsday or a contract following it. those are the games i get the meditate, as the drawn out nature of it tends to leave me with a few U sources.
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T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
As anyone can see, there are tons of options. Some are more promising than others. All of those I mentioned are white, because that's the color I play (most).
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Hey guys, jumping in a bit late. So i have moved formats and traded my way into this deck. I have been play testing it (ill give you the list shortly) but i have a few questions.
1) With the new Rules, Lion's eye Diamond....when will i ever use this? I have played out the situation and i just can't seem to find a way that i would ever need to use them, with the mana not going from one phase to the other, wouldn't Spellbook be a better situational card? (And figures i figure this out after i have goten the deck ready to go).
2) 1 tundra in the deck, 1 white mana.....anyone else see a "kicker" of an issue? Silence might be a better choice, but once again i figured this out after i get the deck.
3) How is this deck winning so much? i mean it's fun to play once the headache is gone but at the same time i have found myself loosing so much life and not getting the mana count the way it needs to be to pull of the game winner in the end, I'm constantly playing this deck to know when to mull to 6 even 5 but i'm still working on it as this is the deck i have choosen to play for a long time
So i picked what seems to be the most complicated legacey deck that i think i could have picked to start with, but at the same time i figured why not.
Hey guys, jumping in a bit late. So i have moved formats and traded my way into this deck. I have been play testing it (ill give you the list shortly) but i have a few questions.
1) With the new Rules, Lion's eye Diamond....when will i ever use this? I have played out the situation and i just can't seem to find a way that i would ever need to use them, with the mana not going from one phase to the other, wouldn't Spellbook be a better situational card? (And figures i figure this out after i have goten the deck ready to go).
2) 1 tundra in the deck, 1 white mana.....anyone else see a "kicker" of an issue? Silence might be a better choice, but once again i figured this out after i get the deck.
3) How is this deck winning so much? i mean it's fun to play once the headache is gone but at the same time i have found myself loosing so much life and not getting the mana count the way it needs to be to pull of the game winner in the end, I'm constantly playing this deck to know when to mull to 6 even 5 but i'm still working on it as this is the deck i have choosen to play for a long time
So i picked what seems to be the most complicated legacey deck that i think i could have picked to start with, but at the same time i figured why not.
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
2 Volcanic Island
2 Wheel of Fate
2 Wipe Away
scrubland = white mana. tundra = white mana. lotus petal = white mana. in reality, you will probably never need the kicker, but seeing as its not a draw back there is no reason to play it differently, seeing as it's a 2 dollar difference at the moment between silence and orim's chant.
lion's eye diamond is the best card in this deck. play a bunch of dark ritual/cabal ritual type things, drop my hand, cast infernal tutor, with that on the stack, crack lion's eye diamond(s), tutor for ad nauseum/doomsday/ill-gotten gains, proceed to combo out with a plethora of free colored mana...LED is so broken, that people are calling for it's banning. methinks you should test some more if you think LED is trash w/ the new rules. yah, you can't crack led in your upkeep then play ANT, but you seldom needed that anyway, as that was more of a dire straits situation to me.
the red board is cute, but largely unnecassary imo. just play more protection and your fine. it seems that your list is more iggy-pop than ANT, all you'd need is burning wish, rite of flame, and seething song. that said, i prefer the UBw ANT versions to the UBr ones, as the chant/silence is often more relevant than additional mana sources + empty. that said, it's a personal choice really.
also, runed halo is very bad, seeing as they will wipe away, rushing river, and or chain of vapor it before casting tendrils, and they will have boarded it in expecting something along those lines...it's much better to go with pillar, as that forces them to have the angel's grace/bounce at the BEGINNING of the combo.
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T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
I just wanna tell spider that yes this is probably one of the most complicated deck in legacy right now. This is one of the best decks at the moment also. If you actually try to play it more and get a feel for it, it will pay off. This is the deck that I would hate to face the most least one of them.
Yes i'm accused of hard net decking, i don't ever really net deck but seeings how i'm new to the format i was wanting to get the deck that was popular.
I started playing Magic last October with MTGO, redeemed, went to t2, stayed there for a while, now i'm doing the T1.5 thing. So i'm still kinda new to this game but i've come a far way in less than a year.
Last night after i wrote that, I found a situation where I needed LED, AD was on the top of the deck, had a brainstorm and 2 led's, played the brainstorm, while it was on the stack i cracked the LED's so yeah for me.
Ill-Gotten Gaines, you caught me i don't see how it's broken with this deck other than the fact if i cast it, i can get back a countered card or a lotus petal, or something along those lines, so yes any more info on that card's apparent awesome use would be nice.
Also right now i'm working on swaping out duress, and putting in twincast..so far it's been interesting but that dual UU is harder to cast but atleast with that if i get my storm count to 4 i could pop tendrills :/ then twincast it.
Hey, yes thank you this deck is starting to sound better every time i read something on here i'm glad that i picked it, As for twincast, it was just a thought, duress is still in there just wanted to see what i could do with it. As for LED it's starting to sound about 1000 times better than my possible spellbook
As for the previous person who told me to read the rules..will do thanks.
As for the red sideboard, it's a netdeck the option of using the open the warrens just sounds like an alternative storm to add incase of a more counter deck along with pyroblast!
Might sound immature, (i'm 26) but the fact that i'm playing with unlimited and revised dual lands just makes me smile even more playing in this format
thanks for all of the help i will keep on playing with it, in about two weeks ill take it to a tourney to see how will i can do.
He did not mean the forum rules, he meant the compherensive rules of M:tG. If you did mean the compherensive rules, too, then good luck with you...
No i understood what he meant, I just didn't know abou the twincast of a storm rule, as i've seen twincast being used for things like sanity grinding i was just thinking hey why not tendrills, but looking it over from what you guys are telling me i understand that it won't..once again i'm new so yes look luck with that.....
also, the new rule says you can not float mana between upkp and draw step? I saw somewhere saying how ppl used to eot mystical tutor for ad naus and pop led b4 they drew...
The DD piles are based on situations, and contingent on having a dig spell in hand or a top down. the most common pile for me is:
top on table:
meditate/infernal contract
led
led
top
tendrils
if there is no top on table, and i need more storm, the leds become dark rits, and the top is a IGG. Obviously, this is all contingent on what cards are where when you cast the spell.
Again, losing the upkeep crack led, draw step play tendrils ability is unfortunate, but not unstoppable.
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T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
I've only seen this deck a couple of times from a friend, could you explain how that pile works ?
Cast DD, have pile. Use top to draw Meditate/Contract. Cast Meditate/Contract. Draw LED x2 and SDT 2x. Cast SDT 2x. Cast LED 2x. Crack the LED's. Use SDT to draw Tendrils. Use SDT to draw SDT. Cast SDT. Use SDT to draw SDT. Cast SDT. Use SDT to draw SDT. Cast Tendrils.
That pile is 9 storm, and requires 4U post DD to work like shown. Other piles have less storm, and do different things...it all really depends on what is going on and what you're facing.
If you dont have the extra mana to cast the spells after the dd in that order, things can change...the reason i play the DD pile is because of its ability to wait and be consistant, as opposed to praying to resolve an ANT through hate. Seeing as the list im running has 18 lands i have lands be an integral part to what im trying to do to win the game, and if my opponent counters something, i'm not out of the game. i can play top deck with a lot of decks, which the speed AnT builds really can't.
IE: i cracked LED w/ infernal tutor on the stack to grab a boarded tormod's crpyt to RFG ichorids yard, because i had 4 lands and SDT and all he had afterwards was an Undiscovered Paradise and a Gemstone Mine w/ 1 counter.
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T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Twincast would be absurd if it worked with tendrils...but it doesn't.
Also with the LED cracking during upkeep rule: Couldn't you just crack the LED during the draw step before you drew? I'm not sure if that works but if it does it essentially does the same thing as the upkeep cracking of LED.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Twincast would be absurd if it worked with tendrils...but it doesn't.
Also with the LED cracking during upkeep rule: Couldn't you just crack the LED during the draw step before you drew? I'm not sure if that works but if it does it essentially does the same thing as the upkeep cracking of LED.
Priority isn't passed until after the player draws his or her card during the draw step. Drawing a card is the very first thing that happens in this step. Since LED can only be used when you have priority, this won't work (sadly).
I've started collecting Doomsday piles again. So far, the document is here:
Thanks for explanation of the piles Samoth, so SDT is key ;-)
Meditate draws 4 so you still need a card in your library to do the SDT tricks right ? (drawing one from a top in play works in that case)
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"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
i've realized that it's a lot easier, and safer, to combo with Doomsday most of the time, and it allows you to misinform your opponent. i love going fetch island top...they immediately put you on thresh/still, and play into your hands. plus with one ANT in the deck, it is just as workable in my build as in others.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Currently Playing:
Retired
I usually stop my Ad Nauseum at 4. this leaves me room to doomsday + contract if needed. against burn i would stop earlier, and would also try to cast chant/silence before losing gobs of life. moreover, i'd board out silence for angel's grace and make it irrelevant.
that said, there have been some games (not the ones i was short the U) where i would die from a doomsday or a contract following it. those are the games i get the meditate, as the drawn out nature of it tends to leave me with a few U sources.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
As anyone can see, there are tons of options. Some are more promising than others. All of those I mentioned are white, because that's the color I play (most).
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Specifically what kind of aggro deck are you playing? In Goyf Sligh I like pyrostatic pillar
Thanks to [High~Light Studios]
1) With the new Rules, Lion's eye Diamond....when will i ever use this? I have played out the situation and i just can't seem to find a way that i would ever need to use them, with the mana not going from one phase to the other, wouldn't Spellbook be a better situational card? (And figures i figure this out after i have goten the deck ready to go).
2) 1 tundra in the deck, 1 white mana.....anyone else see a "kicker" of an issue? Silence might be a better choice, but once again i figured this out after i get the deck.
3) How is this deck winning so much? i mean it's fun to play once the headache is gone but at the same time i have found myself loosing so much life and not getting the mana count the way it needs to be to pull of the game winner in the end, I'm constantly playing this deck to know when to mull to 6 even 5 but i'm still working on it as this is the deck i have choosen to play for a long time
So i picked what seems to be the most complicated legacey deck that i think i could have picked to start with, but at the same time i figured why not.
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
3 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
3 Duress
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Orim's Chant
4 Ponder
1 Rushing River
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
SIDEBOARD
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
2 Volcanic Island
2 Wheel of Fate
2 Wipe Away
scrubland = white mana. tundra = white mana. lotus petal = white mana. in reality, you will probably never need the kicker, but seeing as its not a draw back there is no reason to play it differently, seeing as it's a 2 dollar difference at the moment between silence and orim's chant.
lion's eye diamond is the best card in this deck. play a bunch of dark ritual/cabal ritual type things, drop my hand, cast infernal tutor, with that on the stack, crack lion's eye diamond(s), tutor for ad nauseum/doomsday/ill-gotten gains, proceed to combo out with a plethora of free colored mana...LED is so broken, that people are calling for it's banning. methinks you should test some more if you think LED is trash w/ the new rules. yah, you can't crack led in your upkeep then play ANT, but you seldom needed that anyway, as that was more of a dire straits situation to me.
the red board is cute, but largely unnecassary imo. just play more protection and your fine. it seems that your list is more iggy-pop than ANT, all you'd need is burning wish, rite of flame, and seething song. that said, i prefer the UBw ANT versions to the UBr ones, as the chant/silence is often more relevant than additional mana sources + empty. that said, it's a personal choice really.
also, runed halo is very bad, seeing as they will wipe away, rushing river, and or chain of vapor it before casting tendrils, and they will have boarded it in expecting something along those lines...it's much better to go with pillar, as that forces them to have the angel's grace/bounce at the BEGINNING of the combo.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
I started playing Magic last October with MTGO, redeemed, went to t2, stayed there for a while, now i'm doing the T1.5 thing. So i'm still kinda new to this game but i've come a far way in less than a year.
Last night after i wrote that, I found a situation where I needed LED, AD was on the top of the deck, had a brainstorm and 2 led's, played the brainstorm, while it was on the stack i cracked the LED's so yeah for me.
Ill-Gotten Gaines, you caught me i don't see how it's broken with this deck other than the fact if i cast it, i can get back a countered card or a lotus petal, or something along those lines, so yes any more info on that card's apparent awesome use would be nice.
Also right now i'm working on swaping out duress, and putting in twincast..so far it's been interesting but that dual UU is harder to cast but atleast with that if i get my storm count to 4 i could pop tendrills :/ then twincast it.
As for the previous person who told me to read the rules..will do thanks.
As for the red sideboard, it's a netdeck the option of using the open the warrens just sounds like an alternative storm to add incase of a more counter deck along with pyroblast!
Might sound immature, (i'm 26) but the fact that i'm playing with unlimited and revised dual lands just makes me smile even more playing in this format
thanks for all of the help i will keep on playing with it, in about two weeks ill take it to a tourney to see how will i can do.
No i understood what he meant, I just didn't know abou the twincast of a storm rule, as i've seen twincast being used for things like sanity grinding i was just thinking hey why not tendrills, but looking it over from what you guys are telling me i understand that it won't..once again i'm new so yes look luck with that.....
also, the new rule says you can not float mana between upkp and draw step? I saw somewhere saying how ppl used to eot mystical tutor for ad naus and pop led b4 they drew...
top on table:
meditate/infernal contract
led
led
top
tendrils
if there is no top on table, and i need more storm, the leds become dark rits, and the top is a IGG. Obviously, this is all contingent on what cards are where when you cast the spell.
Again, losing the upkeep crack led, draw step play tendrils ability is unfortunate, but not unstoppable.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeCast DD, have pile. Use top to draw Meditate/Contract. Cast Meditate/Contract. Draw LED x2 and SDT 2x. Cast SDT 2x. Cast LED 2x. Crack the LED's. Use SDT to draw Tendrils. Use SDT to draw SDT. Cast SDT. Use SDT to draw SDT. Cast SDT. Use SDT to draw SDT. Cast Tendrils.
That pile is 9 storm, and requires 4U post DD to work like shown. Other piles have less storm, and do different things...it all really depends on what is going on and what you're facing.
If you dont have the extra mana to cast the spells after the dd in that order, things can change...the reason i play the DD pile is because of its ability to wait and be consistant, as opposed to praying to resolve an ANT through hate. Seeing as the list im running has 18 lands i have lands be an integral part to what im trying to do to win the game, and if my opponent counters something, i'm not out of the game. i can play top deck with a lot of decks, which the speed AnT builds really can't.
IE: i cracked LED w/ infernal tutor on the stack to grab a boarded tormod's crpyt to RFG ichorids yard, because i had 4 lands and SDT and all he had afterwards was an Undiscovered Paradise and a Gemstone Mine w/ 1 counter.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Also with the LED cracking during upkeep rule: Couldn't you just crack the LED during the draw step before you drew? I'm not sure if that works but if it does it essentially does the same thing as the upkeep cracking of LED.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Priority isn't passed until after the player draws his or her card during the draw step. Drawing a card is the very first thing that happens in this step. Since LED can only be used when you have priority, this won't work (sadly).
I've started collecting Doomsday piles again. So far, the document is here:
http://docs.google.com/View?id=d3hxs7m_16cr3v59c9
Thanks for explanation of the piles Samoth, so SDT is key ;-)
Meditate draws 4 so you still need a card in your library to do the SDT tricks right ? (drawing one from a top in play works in that case)
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered Cube