Ohh. Context is epic I run 1 Skull, 1 Jitte, and 1 Sword in my BW list, so to me its a no brainer. If your running 2 swords, I would be tempted to suggest LaS and BaM. LaS=protection from spot removal...
Which is nice, but what creatures are you returning?
I want the abilities of my sword to be relevant at least 80-90% of the time (FaF, FaI, and BaM are the three that fit this criteria. In the U/W stoneblade lists I believe FaF to be the best, followed by FaI).
How is this deck's NO RUG matchup? There's quite a bit of NO RUG (some NO Bant too) in my meta and I wanna know how our chances are against it. I do have Wrath of God in my sideboard to deal with Progenitus but I'm not sure if that's all it takes.
Also, here's my updated list. I managed to find Vendilion Cliques and those Tundras are on the way
Still unsure about my two maindeck Swords, but they've served me well so far and as I explained in an earlier post I like being able to have the right Sword for the right situation on game 1.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy:UR Sneak and Show IUBG Team America IX Metalworker MUD Modern:UBR Blue Jund IWBX Eldrazi Processors IX Affinity IWRG Nacatl Burn IGR Tron IUBR Grishoalbrand
I wrote this brief legacy champs report. I played a U/W Faeries list similar to the one that top 8'd pittsburgh. I'll probably edit this post explaining some of the card choices after.
When modifying this deck, the first thing I knew I wanted was 4 force and 4 swords. Force is simply too important when facing off against the unfair decks this format can bring, and swords is just too good against any creature deck to really skimp on. I cut the fourth jace for the fourth force. The primary reason being: I think people are going to try to run whatever deck wins recently, something like this GerryT list with daze and stifle. That make getting up to four hard. I also think people are going to be running daze again for fear of hive mind. This made me wary of playing too many four drops. (I also don’t own 4). I then switched the second spell snare for a swords. I wanted something in the goblins/merfolk/random agro matches that was good all the time. With only one spell snare, we made it the misers daze. Hope they see it game 1 and play around it game two.
As for the sideboard, we had two open slots. I didn’t like three extractions, as the card is only really good against some decks. But I still wanted graveyard hate, and then a little more, as loam decks were sometimes difficult. This led to adding two relics and cutting an extraction. I also wanted another card against agro decks and for the mirror, so jitte came in. That card is insane against any creature deck ever. Finally rounding out the changes, we added another wrath. I had had some problems with NO decks, and felt the extra wrath would help. It turns out metamorph would have been better. It had more applications.
I went with the faeries because it seemed to have a good hivemind match up, and be well equipped to fight the visions war. Also I love faeries and will play them any chance I can. I played them in my underpowered vintage deck to a 1-2 finish beating only dredge with 6 sb cards.
The days should have been wraths
My memory is terrible. I should have kept better notes. I will do that for Starcity Boston.
Round 1 vs. Reanimator
I keep something like Swords, Visions, Sprite, Jace 2 Fetches and Wasteland on the Draw
My opponent gets a turn 2 Jin-Gitaxias and draws up to 7. On my turn, I swords, he missteps and I force. The next turn I play a sprite and start trying to get in. He exhumes the WBG angel with shroud. Then he animate dead’s an angel of despair. I win very easily. I swords the angel of despair, take a hit from the shroud angel. I am forced to chump with sprites after a few turns, and then finally get stoneforge for batterskull. He swings with his angel against my batterskull, but after I equip it to the mystic, it becomes a wash. After he bricks for a few turns, I get a clique and kill the angel. He tries to get back in the game with an elish norn, but I use Karakas to bounce it to his hand, play a second clique, and batterskull it up.
I side in +2 Surgical Extraction +2 Relic and +1 Wrath. I figure if things get too out of hand, I can chump with sprites and try to draw to a wrath. I think I take out 4 Visions and a Jace, but that is likely wrong.
Game two
He durdles while I counter his spells with sprite and alter his hand with clique. He duresses me while I have extraction in hand. I extract his missteps and see a hand of exhume animate dead and elish norn. I eventually get stoneforge for batterskull. He tries to get back in the game with exhume for stoic angel. But I just attack him for 8 to kill it, and then kill him.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 vs. Junk Depths
Game 1 he lands a turn 1 dark confidant which I can’t answer. He buries me under card advantage.
I don’t know about the dark depths this round and bring in wraths over paths and ring.
I don’t ever lose any life this game. I don’t even know how that happened. My board when he scoops is Jace, Karaks, wasteland and some other lands to his dark depths and three lands.
Game 3 I keep him off of dark depths or much of anything with triple wasteland. His board when he dies to his confidant flip is forest confidant to my island vendillion clique.
2-0 (4-1)
Round 3 vs. No RUG.
Game 1 we trade back and forth, I eventually land a stoneforge for batterskull and kill him.
I board in the wraths, flusterstorm and jitte for Sprites and Jace.
I try to keep him off of natural order, but he is able to endstep a dryad, and misstep my swords. I don’t draw a wrath in the one turn given to me.
Game three is awkward. I get a turn two stoneforge, but he has jace shortly after. He floods the board and manages to ancient grudge my batterskull. I am forced to wrath his double goyf double lavamancer board. He endsteps for the dryad, and natural orders me. I don’t have force or storm. His fatesealing ensures I don’t draw wrath.
2-1 (5-3)
Round 4 vs BW agro.
Game one, I get hymned and don’t have the answer for his Elspeth.
Game two, I get double hymned.
2-2 (5-5)
Round 5 vs. Dredge
Game 1 he mulligans to 6, and tries to resolve a discard outlet. I misstep the first one and sprite the second. He then switches to the max hand size plan. I cast a clique and put too much pressure on him for him to dredge fast enough.
I bring in 1 wrath, 2 extractions, Jitte, and 2 relics for Visions and 2 jace.
He chooses to draw. I extract his stinkweed imps. He discards gravetroll, and I brainstorm in to relic. He switches to the cast outlets plan. I let him dredge twice and then pop relic with him having no outs to the clique-sprite army.
3-2 (7-5)
Round 6 vs. BG Loam
I played against this the night before, so I know what he’s trying to do. It features worm harvest, hymn, raven’s crime, and gigapede. Game 1 he draws poorly, to say the least. Also he kept a 1 lander. He hits 1 non cipt land, and I waste him to keep him off of gigapede. My turn 4 jace gets there, and he wants to play it out for some reason. I look through his deck and see that his only wincons are gigapede and harvest.
I bring in relics, crucible, extract, and jitte for swords and missteps.
This game goes long. I never see a sideboard card until about turn 23. I land an early stoneforge for sword of feast and famine. My opponent gets loam online, and I never draw the extraction. He keeps loaming. He decides not to kill jace with gigapede for a turn, and that costs him the game. I keep brainstorming. I get a crucible online so my mutavaults can block his gigapede all day and sfm keeps getting in there. Eventually we go to time, and he can’t win because I hit relic and exile a gigapede and a worm harvest, along with about 20 lands and 2 loams. I win 1-0.
4-2 (8-5-1)
Round 7 vs. Mono blue
My opponent mentions he lost to Rich Shay round 3. From talking to rich I knew he thrashed a mono-blue deck. I look forward to the match.
Game one I land turn two stoneforge on the play. He has no response. The only other spells I cast are another stoneforge on turn 4 and the ancestral visions on my fourth turn as well. Batterskull and sword get there.
I bring in crucible and o-ring for swords
I force his clique on turn 3, land a jace on turn 4, then my ancestral visions resolve, three of them. Jace make him exile the library and that’s game.
5-2 (10-5-1)
Round 8 Four Horsemen
Game one he probes, then preordains, then preordains. I assume ant. Then he plays mesmeric orb, and I know the deck right away. Fortunately clique just gets him
I bring in the normal gravehate package, and o-ring for swords and a jace.
I extract his narcomboas. I almost lose from two visions and double mesmeric orb, and by that I mean a mystic with a sword of feast and famine kills him while I have 9 cards left in my deck.
6-2 (12-5-1)
Round 9 merfolk
Game 1 I incorrectly force his vial. He forces my mystic. I never get batterskull and die to double lord adept curse catcher. His jitte also just kills all my creatures.
I bring in 3 wrath 2 path, jitte, 2 crucible o-ring for 4 sprite and 4 force and a daze
Game 2 I get turn two stoneforge and easily win. He shows me a jace this game, and I am glad I brought in the o-ring.
Game 3 I just kill his creatures for a while. When he starts flooding, I get mystic for batterskull. Karakas + clique lock him out of the draw step and I kill him.
7-2 (14-6-1) and 18th place on breakers. I have the same record as others in the top 16. I should not lose to fake decks like BW.
The best things in the deck are:
Visions: I don’t remember how many times they resolved, but I think I won every game where they did. I wrecked the games where two resolved. My loss to NO RUG involved him having jace, and countering both of my visions.
Stoneforge Mystic: I used to love bitterblossom, but now my heart has gone to another. She is just the best. Vial + Demonic is pretty good.
Vendillion Clique: Second – Fourth in my heart. They are awesome. Several end games involved her and Karakas. Control your draw + bolt you is pretty nice
Extraction: I was surprised. I know these effects aren’t the best. They don’t affect the board, nor do they provide card advantage. But I played against three graveyard decks. And every time, the free nature of the extraction made it awesome.
Flusterstorm: It’s the real deal. Good vs any combo deck (Except Elves). Good vs natural order, and good vs control decks. The storm nature of it means you will win counterwars no matter what.
Things that weren’t as awesome as hoped:
3 Wraths: I was really excited to play three wraths. However the third wrath was never really needed. I would want a card for the mirror here, but that also has utility against creature decks, like metamorph.
1 Daze: It’s fine, not bad, but we cut the spell snare for it. There are enough good 2 drops that I think 1 is just fine.
Things I want to try out:
SoFi: Also good in the mirror and vs creature decks.
1 Misdirection: Good in the mirror and against hymn decks.
IMO, it is plain wrong to run less than 4 Jaces in this deck archetype.
If you are running the fae version of this deck, I would suggest riptide lab over karakas. The one daze seems random. Other than that I like the deck, but I would rather play the non-spellstutter version.
What is the reason for the omission of manriki-gusari in the sb?
Also, I only see one *** in the 75 and you mention that you had three.
Zoo is an easy matchup if you are on the play. Misstep into standstill is very hard for them to beat.
The key is to protect SFM until you can untap with her. Do not run it out there without protection. The only cards you really care about if you have SFM in hand is pridemage, sylvan library, and price of progress. The other cards are easily dealt with.
Meddling mage naming krosan grip is sub-optimal. Most zoo sideboards have ancient grudge in favor of krosan grip. Meddling Mage is a great card if you know the format very well, but I would not bring it in vs. zoo. They have too much removal. TBH, I would not have meddling mage in the sb at all.
I agree that sometimes there is not choice but to run out an unprotected SFM. *** is much better than DoJ because some decks side in Thrun where regen matters.
@double death
The problem with meddling mage is that you bring it in game 2 and you are put in a spot where you have to blindly name either krosan grip or ancient grudge. You don't know which they are running. As much as I tried to fit mage in the sb, I dont think there is a spot for him in the sb.
Question for everyone, how to tweak our deck to improve the NO RUG mu. I got crushed in the top 4 of a recent tournament I played in by NO RUG. Although my draws were below average, I felt that even if I did draw well I still would have been crushed.
How is this deck's NO RUG matchup? There's quite a bit of NO RUG (some NO Bant too) in my meta and I wanna know how our chances are against it. I do have Wrath of God in my sideboard to deal with Progenitus but I'm not sure if that's all it takes.
Also, here's my updated list. I managed to find Vendilion Cliques and those Tundras are on the way
Still unsure about my two maindeck Swords, but they've served me well so far and as I explained in an earlier post I like being able to have the right Sword for the right situation on game 1.
Crucible of Worlds comes in for the irrelevant Sword during game 2. I just like having both Swords maindecked so I have access to the proper one in game 1 and then I can Wasteland-lock them in the later games.
Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker are there to provide needle effects against decks that rely on activated abilities (but really just Aether Vial). I have two revokers because they are dudes that can be equipped with a Sword in a pinch.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant is the white Bitterblossom to me. Good to have against other control decks and can help power through stalemates. Plus, her second ability can supercharge a Batterskull germ.
Having said all that, I'm not 100% happy with my sideboard. Suggestions for improvement are greatly appreciated.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy:UR Sneak and Show IUBG Team America IX Metalworker MUD Modern:UBR Blue Jund IWBX Eldrazi Processors IX Affinity IWRG Nacatl Burn IGR Tron IUBR Grishoalbrand
Greetings. I'm not exactly new to the forums, but it's been a while…so long I don't remember my original username or email. Time for a fresh start anyway.
I haven't played Legacy competitively in a while, but I'm going to start again, and this deck seems right up my alley. First "tournament" is going to be at Dragoncon in their 8-man-for-a-box rolling tournaments that start whenever they have 8 players within a format. At least, I think it's within a format…the program isn't clear. If it's not within a format, then the whole event is going to turn into $16 flights of Vintage for boxes.
Some notes on card choices and why I'm probably running them:
Shock Lands: I flat-out can't afford duals for this tournament. It's a sunk cost, but adding another $700 or so to the deck price isn't feasible at this point. Consider them on the way and drop-in replacements if you must.
And, I'm aware that I have more fetch lands than targets for them. They cycle for life if the Orb comes out, shuffle away brainstorm/jacestorm cards, bluff countermagic, and make opposing random discard weaker. Plus, this curve basically tops out at 2 except for Jace or a hard cast batterskull. 23 lands is plenty. And the exact cards are made up half randomly…they'll be whatever fetch lands I have and/or can get cheap unless I decide I need more basics for some stupid reason.
Only 3 Mystics & Only 3 Jace: Depends on further testing, but I've always run control decks really light on win conditions, and it's been very rare that it's bit me in the butt. I don't really see the need to change yet but would defer to either the wisdom of the group or testing if either were convincing enough. 4 Jace makes perfect sense if they fit, but running 6 cards for what I used to do with 1 or 2 still seems like ridiculous overkill. Maybe I'm just not with it anymore and you really have to play control as a tempo-only thing. But, I'm not convinced. Also, the Top is the 4th Jace that can come down earlier and baits permission just as well. Plus, if it sticks, it lets me filter my draw and fateseal.
Countespell: I think 10 permission cards is a good number, and I prefer hard counters to situational ones (Daze, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, etc.). I'd probably replace them with Spell Snare or possibly maindeck red blasts depending on the expected meta if I wanted to keep 10 and decided against them. But, I'm pretty sure that I'd just want to counter Bob on the draw, and sometimes an opponent's bob can just win you games.
Standstill vs. Ancestral Vision: No big deal to swap them out, but I haven't directly tested them against each other. It seems like Standstill might be a better choice against anything that needs a big board presence, and I'm not sure how much to expect something like landstill, which would make them dead cards. I'd be weak-ish to a resolved vial anyway, so I don't think that's a huge deal. But, I'm open to suggestions. I've also never played seriously with Standstill, so there's that as well.
Crucible/Wasteland: I try to fit it in every deck I make. It's just fun to watch people looking so dejected. I might be the only person in the world who honestly misses Strip Mine. Actually, if the flights end up being between formats, I might just sub in a Strip Mine instead of actually playing vintage just to screw with people.
Zuran Orb: I could take it or leave it, but especially with crucible, so many fetches and cities, it just seems like a good idea. I have no real idea what the meta is going to be like where I am playing next, and I think it'd serve the purpose of a nice warm blanket. Plus, it's really easy to side it out against anything but Sligh/RDW if those even still exist.
Nihil Spellbomb: I'm not sure why I like it better than Relic…probably because you can activate it for free if you need to. And I should be able to make single black just fine.
Mindbreak Trap: I didn't know that Flusterstorm existed before today, because I assumed the commander cards weren't Legacy-legal. I'll have to give it serious thought, since that card only exists to fight Storm combos and as a free counter against decks that tend towards big turns…which means people that suck at playing against control or have already beaten you.
What I see: It's probably a bit weak to opposing Jace, but that's a lot of what Red Blasts are for, combined with running real permission instead of just Force and Misstep. I'm wondering about Zoo, but 4 spot removal + 4 sweepers after boarding while attacking their manabase seems okay.
you're right about the nonbasics. I also don't have a good way to deal with resolved enchantments at all without tweaks. But, how often have those actually shown up in recent lists? I could just be missing them. The original deck did have more basics in it, but it became a bit weirder.
I could drop green without losing much, and I might be overvaluing artifact hate. I'll definitely look into it.
Relying more heavily on Black might not be what I want to go for unless I want to incorporate Extirpate or Extraction, which would be fine…just stretching the sideboard a bit much.
And I'm not sure about Ratchet Bomb. I remember Powder Keg being decent a long time ago, and it seem Ratchet Bomb is a better card. I could easily drop them for wraths except that they're just a touch slow for Empty the Warrens storm and expensive against Bridge from Below.
The more I think about it, the more I kind of want to drop the whole mystic/battleskull plan…but that would be abandoning an obviously working archetype for an older style of control that hasn't seen the light of day in a long time. It's more in line with the way I always liked to play, but I'm not sure it's viable right now.
TES or charbelcher are not really played anymore so empty the warrens is not something to worry about. Also, a turn 2 stoneforge into a turn 3 batterskull actually races 10-12 goblin tokens.
The decks to be prepared for IMO are the following:
NO RUG
Merfolk - some have back to basics in the board
Zoo - price of progress main
Hive Mind
Mirror (u/w control with either visions or standstill)
mono u control - maindecks back to basics
reanimator
Wrath is better than ratchet bomb bc it kills progenitus which ratchet bomb is wayy too slow to deal with. Powder keg was good back in the day, but now it is outdated.
Ancient grudge is insane, but I don't think the pros of ancient grudge outweigh the cons of stretching your mana base.
Also…is sundial of the infinite too cute to stop–or at least delay–Hive Mind?
I actually think I like that list a lot better. Though they all seem a bit light in card drawing.
And I was never particularly attached to the orb…I've just never really played with fetch lands seriously. Giving away that much with no life gain other than your win condition worries me.
For variants of UW Stoneblade that run Spellstutter Sprite, Mutavault is a better choice because it counts as a faerie when activated, which can give your Sprites more reach. If you don't run Sprites, Mishra's Factory is better.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy:UR Sneak and Show IUBG Team America IX Metalworker MUD Modern:UBR Blue Jund IWBX Eldrazi Processors IX Affinity IWRG Nacatl Burn IGR Tron IUBR Grishoalbrand
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Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
I want the abilities of my sword to be relevant at least 80-90% of the time (FaF, FaI, and BaM are the three that fit this criteria. In the U/W stoneblade lists I believe FaF to be the best, followed by FaI).
EDIT: Thoughts on a combo-type deck with ThopterSword? Maybe in Esper
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Also, here's my updated list. I managed to find Vendilion Cliques and those Tundras are on the way
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
4 Swords To Plowshares
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Standstill
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Plains
3 Flooded Strand
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Pithing Needle
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Path to Exile
2 Wrath of God
1 Vendilion Clique
Still unsure about my two maindeck Swords, but they've served me well so far and as I explained in an earlier post I like being able to have the right Sword for the right situation on game 1.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendillion Clique
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Batterskull
4 Mental Misstep
4 Force of will
4 Brainstorm
1 Daze
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Ancestral Visions
3 Jace the Mindsculptor
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
3 Island
3 Wasteland
2 Plains
1 Karakas
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Path to exile
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Relic of progenitus
2 Day of Judgment
2 Fluster Storm
1 Wrath of God
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
When modifying this deck, the first thing I knew I wanted was 4 force and 4 swords. Force is simply too important when facing off against the unfair decks this format can bring, and swords is just too good against any creature deck to really skimp on. I cut the fourth jace for the fourth force. The primary reason being: I think people are going to try to run whatever deck wins recently, something like this GerryT list with daze and stifle. That make getting up to four hard. I also think people are going to be running daze again for fear of hive mind. This made me wary of playing too many four drops. (I also don’t own 4). I then switched the second spell snare for a swords. I wanted something in the goblins/merfolk/random agro matches that was good all the time. With only one spell snare, we made it the misers daze. Hope they see it game 1 and play around it game two.
As for the sideboard, we had two open slots. I didn’t like three extractions, as the card is only really good against some decks. But I still wanted graveyard hate, and then a little more, as loam decks were sometimes difficult. This led to adding two relics and cutting an extraction. I also wanted another card against agro decks and for the mirror, so jitte came in. That card is insane against any creature deck ever. Finally rounding out the changes, we added another wrath. I had had some problems with NO decks, and felt the extra wrath would help. It turns out metamorph would have been better. It had more applications.
I went with the faeries because it seemed to have a good hivemind match up, and be well equipped to fight the visions war. Also I love faeries and will play them any chance I can. I played them in my underpowered vintage deck to a 1-2 finish beating only dredge with 6 sb cards.
The days should have been wraths
My memory is terrible. I should have kept better notes. I will do that for Starcity Boston.
Round 1 vs. Reanimator
I keep something like Swords, Visions, Sprite, Jace 2 Fetches and Wasteland on the Draw
My opponent gets a turn 2 Jin-Gitaxias and draws up to 7. On my turn, I swords, he missteps and I force. The next turn I play a sprite and start trying to get in. He exhumes the WBG angel with shroud. Then he animate dead’s an angel of despair. I win very easily. I swords the angel of despair, take a hit from the shroud angel. I am forced to chump with sprites after a few turns, and then finally get stoneforge for batterskull. He swings with his angel against my batterskull, but after I equip it to the mystic, it becomes a wash. After he bricks for a few turns, I get a clique and kill the angel. He tries to get back in the game with an elish norn, but I use Karakas to bounce it to his hand, play a second clique, and batterskull it up.
I side in +2 Surgical Extraction +2 Relic and +1 Wrath. I figure if things get too out of hand, I can chump with sprites and try to draw to a wrath. I think I take out 4 Visions and a Jace, but that is likely wrong.
Game two
He durdles while I counter his spells with sprite and alter his hand with clique. He duresses me while I have extraction in hand. I extract his missteps and see a hand of exhume animate dead and elish norn. I eventually get stoneforge for batterskull. He tries to get back in the game with exhume for stoic angel. But I just attack him for 8 to kill it, and then kill him.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 vs. Junk Depths
Game 1 he lands a turn 1 dark confidant which I can’t answer. He buries me under card advantage.
I don’t know about the dark depths this round and bring in wraths over paths and ring.
I don’t ever lose any life this game. I don’t even know how that happened. My board when he scoops is Jace, Karaks, wasteland and some other lands to his dark depths and three lands.
Game 3 I keep him off of dark depths or much of anything with triple wasteland. His board when he dies to his confidant flip is forest confidant to my island vendillion clique.
2-0 (4-1)
Round 3 vs. No RUG.
Game 1 we trade back and forth, I eventually land a stoneforge for batterskull and kill him.
I board in the wraths, flusterstorm and jitte for Sprites and Jace.
I try to keep him off of natural order, but he is able to endstep a dryad, and misstep my swords. I don’t draw a wrath in the one turn given to me.
Game three is awkward. I get a turn two stoneforge, but he has jace shortly after. He floods the board and manages to ancient grudge my batterskull. I am forced to wrath his double goyf double lavamancer board. He endsteps for the dryad, and natural orders me. I don’t have force or storm. His fatesealing ensures I don’t draw wrath.
2-1 (5-3)
Round 4 vs BW agro.
Game one, I get hymned and don’t have the answer for his Elspeth.
Game two, I get double hymned.
2-2 (5-5)
Round 5 vs. Dredge
Game 1 he mulligans to 6, and tries to resolve a discard outlet. I misstep the first one and sprite the second. He then switches to the max hand size plan. I cast a clique and put too much pressure on him for him to dredge fast enough.
I bring in 1 wrath, 2 extractions, Jitte, and 2 relics for Visions and 2 jace.
He chooses to draw. I extract his stinkweed imps. He discards gravetroll, and I brainstorm in to relic. He switches to the cast outlets plan. I let him dredge twice and then pop relic with him having no outs to the clique-sprite army.
3-2 (7-5)
Round 6 vs. BG Loam
I played against this the night before, so I know what he’s trying to do. It features worm harvest, hymn, raven’s crime, and gigapede. Game 1 he draws poorly, to say the least. Also he kept a 1 lander. He hits 1 non cipt land, and I waste him to keep him off of gigapede. My turn 4 jace gets there, and he wants to play it out for some reason. I look through his deck and see that his only wincons are gigapede and harvest.
I bring in relics, crucible, extract, and jitte for swords and missteps.
This game goes long. I never see a sideboard card until about turn 23. I land an early stoneforge for sword of feast and famine. My opponent gets loam online, and I never draw the extraction. He keeps loaming. He decides not to kill jace with gigapede for a turn, and that costs him the game. I keep brainstorming. I get a crucible online so my mutavaults can block his gigapede all day and sfm keeps getting in there. Eventually we go to time, and he can’t win because I hit relic and exile a gigapede and a worm harvest, along with about 20 lands and 2 loams. I win 1-0.
4-2 (8-5-1)
Round 7 vs. Mono blue
My opponent mentions he lost to Rich Shay round 3. From talking to rich I knew he thrashed a mono-blue deck. I look forward to the match.
Game one I land turn two stoneforge on the play. He has no response. The only other spells I cast are another stoneforge on turn 4 and the ancestral visions on my fourth turn as well. Batterskull and sword get there.
I bring in crucible and o-ring for swords
I force his clique on turn 3, land a jace on turn 4, then my ancestral visions resolve, three of them. Jace make him exile the library and that’s game.
5-2 (10-5-1)
Round 8 Four Horsemen
Game one he probes, then preordains, then preordains. I assume ant. Then he plays mesmeric orb, and I know the deck right away. Fortunately clique just gets him
I bring in the normal gravehate package, and o-ring for swords and a jace.
I extract his narcomboas. I almost lose from two visions and double mesmeric orb, and by that I mean a mystic with a sword of feast and famine kills him while I have 9 cards left in my deck.
6-2 (12-5-1)
Round 9 merfolk
Game 1 I incorrectly force his vial. He forces my mystic. I never get batterskull and die to double lord adept curse catcher. His jitte also just kills all my creatures.
I bring in 3 wrath 2 path, jitte, 2 crucible o-ring for 4 sprite and 4 force and a daze
Game 2 I get turn two stoneforge and easily win. He shows me a jace this game, and I am glad I brought in the o-ring.
Game 3 I just kill his creatures for a while. When he starts flooding, I get mystic for batterskull. Karakas + clique lock him out of the draw step and I kill him.
7-2 (14-6-1) and 18th place on breakers. I have the same record as others in the top 16. I should not lose to fake decks like BW.
The best things in the deck are:
Visions: I don’t remember how many times they resolved, but I think I won every game where they did. I wrecked the games where two resolved. My loss to NO RUG involved him having jace, and countering both of my visions.
Stoneforge Mystic: I used to love bitterblossom, but now my heart has gone to another. She is just the best. Vial + Demonic is pretty good.
Vendillion Clique: Second – Fourth in my heart. They are awesome. Several end games involved her and Karakas. Control your draw + bolt you is pretty nice
Extraction: I was surprised. I know these effects aren’t the best. They don’t affect the board, nor do they provide card advantage. But I played against three graveyard decks. And every time, the free nature of the extraction made it awesome.
Flusterstorm: It’s the real deal. Good vs any combo deck (Except Elves). Good vs natural order, and good vs control decks. The storm nature of it means you will win counterwars no matter what.
Things that weren’t as awesome as hoped:
3 Wraths: I was really excited to play three wraths. However the third wrath was never really needed. I would want a card for the mirror here, but that also has utility against creature decks, like metamorph.
1 Daze: It’s fine, not bad, but we cut the spell snare for it. There are enough good 2 drops that I think 1 is just fine.
Things I want to try out:
SoFi: Also good in the mirror and vs creature decks.
1 Misdirection: Good in the mirror and against hymn decks.
If you are running the fae version of this deck, I would suggest riptide lab over karakas. The one daze seems random. Other than that I like the deck, but I would rather play the non-spellstutter version.
What is the reason for the omission of manriki-gusari in the sb?
Also, I only see one *** in the 75 and you mention that you had three.
The key is to protect SFM until you can untap with her. Do not run it out there without protection. The only cards you really care about if you have SFM in hand is pridemage, sylvan library, and price of progress. The other cards are easily dealt with.
Meddling mage naming krosan grip is sub-optimal. Most zoo sideboards have ancient grudge in favor of krosan grip. Meddling Mage is a great card if you know the format very well, but I would not bring it in vs. zoo. They have too much removal. TBH, I would not have meddling mage in the sb at all.
I agree that sometimes there is not choice but to run out an unprotected SFM. *** is much better than DoJ because some decks side in Thrun where regen matters.
@double death
The problem with meddling mage is that you bring it in game 2 and you are put in a spot where you have to blindly name either krosan grip or ancient grudge. You don't know which they are running. As much as I tried to fit mage in the sb, I dont think there is a spot for him in the sb.
Question for everyone, how to tweak our deck to improve the NO RUG mu. I got crushed in the top 4 of a recent tournament I played in by NO RUG. Although my draws were below average, I felt that even if I did draw well I still would have been crushed.
Could you please explain you SB picks?
thx!
Crucible of Worlds comes in for the irrelevant Sword during game 2. I just like having both Swords maindecked so I have access to the proper one in game 1 and then I can Wasteland-lock them in the later games.
Manriki-Gusari is for the mirror and other Stoneforge Mystic decks. Kills enemy Swords, Umezawa's Jitte and helps slow down enemy Batterskulls.
Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker are there to provide needle effects against decks that rely on activated abilities (but really just Aether Vial). I have two revokers because they are dudes that can be equipped with a Sword in a pinch.
Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus are just graveyard hate.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant is the white Bitterblossom to me. Good to have against other control decks and can help power through stalemates. Plus, her second ability can supercharge a Batterskull germ.
The Path to Exiles act as Swords to Plowshares 5-8 against aggro decks. I normally side out my Force of Wills for them.
Wrath of God, as explained above, is my deck's way to kill Progenitus. It also helps against some aggro decks.
The extra Vendilion Clique is for the combo matchup and comes in to help against various Show and Tell decks.
Having said all that, I'm not 100% happy with my sideboard. Suggestions for improvement are greatly appreciated.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
I haven't played Legacy competitively in a while, but I'm going to start again, and this deck seems right up my alley. First "tournament" is going to be at Dragoncon in their 8-man-for-a-box rolling tournaments that start whenever they have 8 players within a format. At least, I think it's within a format…the program isn't clear. If it's not within a format, then the whole event is going to turn into $16 flights of Vintage for boxes.
Here's what I'm planning on working with:
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Batterskull
Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Permission
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
2 Counterspell
Draw
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
Removal
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Land
1 Island
4 City of Brass
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Breeding Pool
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Wasteland
1 Pithing Needle
3 Mindbreak Trap
4 REB/Pyroblast
4 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Llewan, Cephalid Empress
2 Wrath of God
Some notes on card choices and why I'm probably running them:
Shock Lands: I flat-out can't afford duals for this tournament. It's a sunk cost, but adding another $700 or so to the deck price isn't feasible at this point. Consider them on the way and drop-in replacements if you must.
And, I'm aware that I have more fetch lands than targets for them. They cycle for life if the Orb comes out, shuffle away brainstorm/jacestorm cards, bluff countermagic, and make opposing random discard weaker. Plus, this curve basically tops out at 2 except for Jace or a hard cast batterskull. 23 lands is plenty. And the exact cards are made up half randomly…they'll be whatever fetch lands I have and/or can get cheap unless I decide I need more basics for some stupid reason.
Only 3 Mystics & Only 3 Jace: Depends on further testing, but I've always run control decks really light on win conditions, and it's been very rare that it's bit me in the butt. I don't really see the need to change yet but would defer to either the wisdom of the group or testing if either were convincing enough. 4 Jace makes perfect sense if they fit, but running 6 cards for what I used to do with 1 or 2 still seems like ridiculous overkill. Maybe I'm just not with it anymore and you really have to play control as a tempo-only thing. But, I'm not convinced. Also, the Top is the 4th Jace that can come down earlier and baits permission just as well. Plus, if it sticks, it lets me filter my draw and fateseal.
Countespell: I think 10 permission cards is a good number, and I prefer hard counters to situational ones (Daze, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, etc.). I'd probably replace them with Spell Snare or possibly maindeck red blasts depending on the expected meta if I wanted to keep 10 and decided against them. But, I'm pretty sure that I'd just want to counter Bob on the draw, and sometimes an opponent's bob can just win you games.
Standstill vs. Ancestral Vision: No big deal to swap them out, but I haven't directly tested them against each other. It seems like Standstill might be a better choice against anything that needs a big board presence, and I'm not sure how much to expect something like landstill, which would make them dead cards. I'd be weak-ish to a resolved vial anyway, so I don't think that's a huge deal. But, I'm open to suggestions. I've also never played seriously with Standstill, so there's that as well.
Crucible/Wasteland: I try to fit it in every deck I make. It's just fun to watch people looking so dejected. I might be the only person in the world who honestly misses Strip Mine. Actually, if the flights end up being between formats, I might just sub in a Strip Mine instead of actually playing vintage just to screw with people.
Zuran Orb: I could take it or leave it, but especially with crucible, so many fetches and cities, it just seems like a good idea. I have no real idea what the meta is going to be like where I am playing next, and I think it'd serve the purpose of a nice warm blanket. Plus, it's really easy to side it out against anything but Sligh/RDW if those even still exist.
Nihil Spellbomb: I'm not sure why I like it better than Relic…probably because you can activate it for free if you need to. And I should be able to make single black just fine.
Mindbreak Trap: I didn't know that Flusterstorm existed before today, because I assumed the commander cards weren't Legacy-legal. I'll have to give it serious thought, since that card only exists to fight Storm combos and as a free counter against decks that tend towards big turns…which means people that suck at playing against control or have already beaten you.
What I see: It's probably a bit weak to opposing Jace, but that's a lot of what Red Blasts are for, combined with running real permission instead of just Force and Misstep. I'm wondering about Zoo, but 4 spot removal + 4 sweepers after boarding while attacking their manabase seems okay.
Comments or suggestions?
At a cursory glance, the most glaring thing i see is that you are weak to wasteland/back to basics/blood moon effects.
4 colors is hard to do in today's metagame. It would be way too easy to just lose to a well-timed wasteland.
Your list seems to straddle a couple different strategies. My suggestion is to try and figure out which direction you want to go and focus on that.
Zuran orb and ratchet bomb are sub-optimal. If you are intent on running 4 colors, why not 5 and add pernicious deed. Deed >>> ratchet bomb.
Here is a link to a list that streamlines what I feel you are trying to accomplish:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=891836
Thank you very much for all the detail!!
I am now building this new deck, and you idea will help a lot.
The best to build the strongest SB is to share the problems we face in different MUs! So all the reports are really helpful.
you're right about the nonbasics. I also don't have a good way to deal with resolved enchantments at all without tweaks. But, how often have those actually shown up in recent lists? I could just be missing them. The original deck did have more basics in it, but it became a bit weirder.
I could drop green without losing much, and I might be overvaluing artifact hate. I'll definitely look into it.
Relying more heavily on Black might not be what I want to go for unless I want to incorporate Extirpate or Extraction, which would be fine…just stretching the sideboard a bit much.
And I'm not sure about Ratchet Bomb. I remember Powder Keg being decent a long time ago, and it seem Ratchet Bomb is a better card. I could easily drop them for wraths except that they're just a touch slow for Empty the Warrens storm and expensive against Bridge from Below.
The more I think about it, the more I kind of want to drop the whole mystic/battleskull plan…but that would be abandoning an obviously working archetype for an older style of control that hasn't seen the light of day in a long time. It's more in line with the way I always liked to play, but I'm not sure it's viable right now.
The decks to be prepared for IMO are the following:
NO RUG
Merfolk - some have back to basics in the board
Zoo - price of progress main
Hive Mind
Mirror (u/w control with either visions or standstill)
mono u control - maindecks back to basics
reanimator
Wrath is better than ratchet bomb bc it kills progenitus which ratchet bomb is wayy too slow to deal with. Powder keg was good back in the day, but now it is outdated.
Ancient grudge is insane, but I don't think the pros of ancient grudge outweigh the cons of stretching your mana base.
And, please cut Zuran Orb
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Batterskull
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
2 Counterspell/Spell Snare/etc.
4 Brainstorm
4 Ancestral Visions/Standstill
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Wrath of God
1 Echoing Truths
4 Wasteland
3 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra/Hallowed Fountain
2 Plains
5 Island
1 Mountain
3 Disenchant
4 REB/Pyroblast
4 Leyline/Relic/Crypt
4 ???
Also…is sundial of the infinite too cute to stop–or at least delay–Hive Mind?
I actually think I like that list a lot better. Though they all seem a bit light in card drawing.
And I was never particularly attached to the orb…I've just never really played with fetch lands seriously. Giving away that much with no life gain other than your win condition worries me.
Why Muta over Mishra's Factory?
For variants of UW Stoneblade that run Spellstutter Sprite, Mutavault is a better choice because it counts as a faerie when activated, which can give your Sprites more reach. If you don't run Sprites, Mishra's Factory is better.
Actually, with the rise of Hive Mind, I have half the mind to switch to the Spellstutter Sprite version. I just don't have the Mutavaults
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand