Yeah, losing Bitterblossom could be big as it does rock against any slow rolling control decks that don't have an answer for it. Losing Chrome Mox hurts a little too as it definitely is needed for an explosive start. It seems like it really comes down to the meta. If I see a ton of U/W Stoneblade or Fish, or any control ish meta, I may need to try Italia. We will see.
I'm also curious as to how the new Chandra may work in Italia. I mean, it's definitely not the best planeswalker, but being able to nick Bob, Hierarch while doubling Vindicate/Hymn/Thoughtseize sounds like good value. I know four cc is heavy, but it might be worth a try as a one of?
Yeah, losing Bitterblossom could be big as it does rock against any slow rolling control decks that don't have an answer for it. Losing Chrome Mox hurts a little too as it definitely is needed for an explosive start. It seems like it really comes down to the meta. If I see a ton of U/W Stoneblade or Fish, or any control ish meta, I may need to try Italia. We will see.
I'm also curious as to how the new Chandra may work in Italia. I mean, it's definitely not the best planeswalker, but being able to nick Bob, Hierarch while doubling Vindicate/Hymn/Thoughtseize sounds like good value. I know four cc is heavy, but it might be worth a try as a one of?
Problem is, she's competing with Elspeth's/Jace's slot for the 4cc division.
But Italia doesn't run Bitter right? So wouldn't Elspeth be a good idea?
I've been testing the BW list I posted above online and I'm loving it. Bitter is an MVP, and SoWaP fits the bill in the deck perfectly. BW has plenty of removal to deal with green, and I've face off slow control decks where I just hit Bitter and SFM for WaP and basically just sat there. Slow control is forced to deal with Bitter right away, because the longer the game takes the more advantage you are accumulating.
The deck has a good matchup vs a lot of the field, but the trade off is you get killed by dredge, a resolved counterballence, or decks with Trinisphere and Chalice (I have all of 5 cards above 2 cmc?). Luckily, this doesn't describe much of the current meta, so I think the deck is well-positioned. Especially since blue decks are not running Snare as much as they used to.
Maybe its a local thing... but RUg tempo, Bant Control, 4C CB, NO RUG, Merfolk, Team America (actually, a guy on this thread just recently questioned why no one is running it now), BUG Landstill....
What decks are running it? Mono-U control? and UW StoneBlade?
Primers have a tendency to be out of date, apparently. Here's some recent ones (you already agreed that blue stoneforge lists run snare, so I'm not gonna bother looking it up):
But Italia doesn't run Bitter right? So wouldn't Elspeth be a good idea?
No, it doesn't run bitter. Elspeth would be good, except I don't know that the casting cost is viable. I could try doing a couple runs with it, but ww is a bit heavy in a three colored deck that primarily wants to hit Hymn consistently.
Also, Team Italia has much more creatures so it might be more consistent in providing a body for the sword.
I see a lot of discussion about black and red for this deck and whether to run blue or not. I'm currently running a UW version of blade control. Is UW not considered good or has discussion just been going beyond that?
Here is my current list so ya'll see what I'm running.
The discussion has kind of been all over the place. There has been a little talk about splitting the thread in two for the U and B builds.
Your list probably needs Vendilion Clique in place of the Meddling Mage and Counterspells.
@mikeduges: The Team Italia list I put in the primer ran 1 Elspeth and 1 Ajani. I'm sure Bitterblossom is also doable but then you start to creep back to BW.
never run meddling mage in the main unless you're playing vintage
I know Meddling mage is pretty unorthodox for the maindeck but I recently tried him out because he is another body that can hold equipment and his cip ability can be very useful. Turning off a key spell for combo, sneak and show, high tides, etc can be great and even if he just turns off enemy removal isn't that good enough? We don't want SFM killed with a batterskull in hand, and having a germ killed slows us a lot.
Is running him maindeck with this reasoning still absurd? I've just been thinking outside the box a little. Also most decks run batterskull plus a sword. Would it be better to just have two batterskulls? This would allow us to not need as many bodies in the form of clique and just rely on germs for equip. Clique has always been very underwhelming for me even tho he seems to be a bomb on paper. Additional removal or more countermagic could take up cliques spot to make a stronger control suite.
Meddling Mage is unplayed for the exact reason that there is too much quality in Legacy. You name a removal spell and you end up facing a Knight. It is better to play Vendilion Clique, hide their quality card and give them crap. I personally would not leave home without 3 Cliques in any blue tempo oriented deck.
Meddling Mage is unplayed for the exact reason that there is too much quality in Legacy. You name a removal spell and you end up facing a Knight. It is better to play Vendilion Clique, hide their quality card and give them crap. I personally would not leave home without 3 Cliques in any blue tempo oriented deck.
Is this really considered a tempo deck? The UW version of this deck to me can be summed up as landstill minus Explosives and some 4cc bombs plus a SFM package.
This deck is still essentially a deck that wants to drop lands stabilize and get to late game.
I'm also curious as to how the new Chandra may work in Italia. I mean, it's definitely not the best planeswalker, but being able to nick Bob, Hierarch while doubling Vindicate/Hymn/Thoughtseize sounds like good value. I know four cc is heavy, but it might be worth a try as a one of?
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
Problem is, she's competing with Elspeth's/Jace's slot for the 4cc division.
No she isn't. If you're running Jace in Team Italia, you have bigger problems.
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
I've been testing the BW list I posted above online and I'm loving it. Bitter is an MVP, and SoWaP fits the bill in the deck perfectly. BW has plenty of removal to deal with green, and I've face off slow control decks where I just hit Bitter and SFM for WaP and basically just sat there. Slow control is forced to deal with Bitter right away, because the longer the game takes the more advantage you are accumulating.
The deck has a good matchup vs a lot of the field, but the trade off is you get killed by dredge, a resolved counterballence, or decks with Trinisphere and Chalice (I have all of 5 cards above 2 cmc?). Luckily, this doesn't describe much of the current meta, so I think the deck is well-positioned. Especially since blue decks are not running Snare as much as they used to.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
EDIT: Well, not Merfolk...
What decks are running it? Mono-U control? and UW StoneBlade?
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
EDIT: less than half of the blue decks run JTMS anyways....
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Team America- http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6483&iddeck=46973
BUGstill- http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6489&iddeck=47007
Thresh, which is still around- http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6469&iddeck=46869
Thopter- http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6417&iddeck=46490
Okay, what I really should have said was that every CONTROL deck and SOME tempo decks pack Spell Snare.
No, it doesn't run bitter. Elspeth would be good, except I don't know that the casting cost is viable. I could try doing a couple runs with it, but ww is a bit heavy in a three colored deck that primarily wants to hit Hymn consistently.
Also, Team Italia has much more creatures so it might be more consistent in providing a body for the sword.
What do you think?
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
Here is my current list so ya'll see what I'm running.
4 x Factory
4 x Strand
2 x Delta
1 x Marsh Flats
3 x Tundra
4 x Island
3 x Plains
1 x Batterskull
1 x Sword of Mind and Body
2 x Meddling Mage
2 x Jace
2 x Elspeth
4 x FoW
3 x Snare
3 x Misstep
2 x Counterspell
4 x Swords
4 x Standstill
1 x Crucible
Your list probably needs Vendilion Clique in place of the Meddling Mage and Counterspells.
@mikeduges: The Team Italia list I put in the primer ran 1 Elspeth and 1 Ajani. I'm sure Bitterblossom is also doable but then you start to creep back to BW.
+4 mutavault
They can carry swords and up your faerie count for spellstutter
I know Meddling mage is pretty unorthodox for the maindeck but I recently tried him out because he is another body that can hold equipment and his cip ability can be very useful. Turning off a key spell for combo, sneak and show, high tides, etc can be great and even if he just turns off enemy removal isn't that good enough? We don't want SFM killed with a batterskull in hand, and having a germ killed slows us a lot.
Is running him maindeck with this reasoning still absurd? I've just been thinking outside the box a little. Also most decks run batterskull plus a sword. Would it be better to just have two batterskulls? This would allow us to not need as many bodies in the form of clique and just rely on germs for equip. Clique has always been very underwhelming for me even tho he seems to be a bomb on paper. Additional removal or more countermagic could take up cliques spot to make a stronger control suite.
Is this really considered a tempo deck? The UW version of this deck to me can be summed up as landstill minus Explosives and some 4cc bombs plus a SFM package.
This deck is still essentially a deck that wants to drop lands stabilize and get to late game.