MTG Salvation

Quote from bradstone

@anomie-p: I personally put ensnaring bridge in there because I found myself getting bashed on by KoTR far too often. Not only that, but my meta has a fair amount of Sneak & Show, and NO RUG as well. I usually don't have to many cards in my hand late game and even when visions goes off I'm probably dumping my hand down to 3.

That makes a lot of sense to me.

I'm thinking of changing to something like (My maindeck is the same, just the sideboard changed):



Having tutor makes me want Blood Moon but the fact that the Magus has a body makes me want to leave them as Magus. Maybe 1 and 1? (This is all sort of speculative, I don't have people to playtest with really so I wanted to get people's thoughts)

Quote from Crovakiet

Pretty sure the reason why Edgar didn't use Force of Will in his B/W/U control deck is due to the general decline of traditional combo itself in the meta like Storm (tide,tendrils), Painter, Belcher etc. The past couple months post misstep has made all the 'boogeyman' combo decks fearful of having to fight through a whole lot of hate. These past couple months have been the prime environment in which if one was playing in a large event to make a metagame call NOT to use FoW in order to have more business spells for control/aggro. Play the odds in pairings so to speak that you will probably meet more control/aggro than combo if at all...but due to how the meta has shaped up, it's definitely prime time for certain combo decks to prey on the current metagame.

My post wasn't really directed towards him, the UWB build really isn't able to get the optimal number of blue cards to make force of will worth it unless they play a bunch of counters like UW and use the black splash basically just for dark confidant and thoughtsieze. I don't think thats the right way to go though, I'd much rather have my deck resemble Dead Guy and use blue the same way he did... card selection, hand disruption beaters, and basically free counters that cover most everything thoughtsieze and hymn didn't hit.

Should all the stone blade deck discussion be in one thread? Seems kind of messy to me. I mean after the core 10-11 cards (4 SFM, 4 STP, 1 BS, 1-2 Swords) the decks don't have a ton of overlap in discussion. I mean why would the BW decks care about the discussion about if 3 or 4 jaces is the right number?

Quote from Pringlesman

Should all the stone blade deck discussion be in one thread? Seems kind of messy to me. I mean after the core 10-11 cards (4 SFM, 4 STP, 1 BS, 1-2 Swords) the decks don't have a ton of overlap in discussion. I mean why would the BW decks care about the discussion about if 3 or 4 jaces is the right number?

I am not knowledgable enough to write a primer for each variant. If the people who are would like to break this into multiple threads, they are welcome to.

However, a lot of the theory of the decks overlap heavily. Play Stoneforge, protect the equipment, make holders, beat face. Honestly, I don't think issues like Jace number have come up. Issues like "do I need more sword bearers", however, have appeared a couple times. This is a question that is definitely relevant to all builds.

In addition, there has been discussion of the shortcomings of the Esper build. At the moment, this seems to be working alright. If people feel suffocated, we can work out a new thread.

Jace numbers were discussed when I brought up dropping from 4 to 2 or 3 to add Elspeth in UW. I dunno if I feel it's a problem per say, but I feel maybe we should split into UWx and WBx? Italia and WB have a lot in common, as do UW and Patriot. You say the core is 10-11 cards, butthats because you need to accommodate every color combo. JTMS is core in decks with blue, Confidant in decks with black

Well if the mods want to work with me to split the primer in half, we can do that. If the posters would prefer that, it can be done I'm sure.

Quote from Qwerty

I see no problem with it as long as the main thread is kept updated with sections split, frankly it may make it less confusing then 5 splinter threads

I mean we would have a UW/X thread and a BW/X thread, since those are the two major ones.

Quote from Zirath

I mean we would have a UW/X thread and a BW/X thread, since those are the two major ones.

I think this is the most logical choice. UW(R) and UW are close enough that most strategy discussions would overlap, especially since the red is basically for Grim Lavamancer md.

UW and WB however are really different decks, with the large part of thier card pool being exclusive

This is a rough list of what I want to run.


notes: I might cut the fourth island to play an 8th fetchland. But I like the idea of running 1/1/1 of all my non strand blue fetches, it just looks so elegant.
I'm not sure on what sideboard cards to run yet, this is just a stab in the dark.

4 Jace and 0 Elspeth? Why? I love Elspeth... I'm currently running 2/2 though I might go back to 3/1. I've decided Punishing Grove is cute but bad here. My list...



I feel my 1 Ponder is a little weak, but I'm not sure what to replace it with. How are people finding Mirran Crusader? I might drop Ponder and a Misstep for 2... If I ran 2 Crusader and 3 Lavamancer, Basilisk Collar wOuld look tempting...

I know Stoneblade with blue is the hot topic now, but if someone would like to give their two cents to this question, that will be great.

I'm debating between B/W and Team Italia, what do you think your objective opinions on the pros and cons are for both.

Thanks for help!

Hi Guys. Relatively new here. I'm currently piloting this build after getting bored with thopter and merfolk.



I kinda hate the thought of putting the more powerful equipment in this deck for the following reasons:
1. Very low creature count
2. Very susceptible to instant speed removal at any point in the game (because most of the time, you'll be equipping them to the manlands, and they'll fall of every EoT)
3. SoFI? No thanks. I have brainstorm, swords, and Jace for C.A. and removal.
4. SoLS? No thanks. Low creature count. And Batterskull lets you gain more life.
5. SoBM? No thanks. I don't want to be filling the opponent's graveyard with Bridges, Animate Targets, VVines, and pumps for Goyf, Kotr, and the EDH Slime (forgot the name).
6. SoFF? This I'm thinking about. But then again, the swords will fall off at EoT when equipped to half of the creatures in the deck (the 5 manlands)

With that said, adding another copy of batterskull would be the better option here.

Your thoughts, please! Thanks!

I would not play only 5 creatures. Definitely up the Cliques to 3 at the minimum. I never equip swords to manlands in my deck. I would seriously consider SoFaF, as right now your only way to handle big green dudes is StP. It's really about options, and only running Batterskull limits your options. Maybe Jitte? Also, you didn't mention WaP

EDIT: I would go for BW. I think that deck is sweet, if I had scrublands and chrome Moxen I would be playing it. BW has a bit of a stretched manabase (hense the oxen), but Italia isn't better and has a worse carpool IMO. Being able to run so much discard along with Bob, Bitter, SFM, and Elspeth is very powerful

Quote from Raggedjoe

I would not play only 5 creatures. Definitely up the Cliques to 3 at the minimum. I never equip swords to manlands in my deck. I would seriously concider SoFaF, as right now your only way to handle big green dudes is StP.

I would go for BW. I think that deck is sweet, if I had scrublands and chrome Moxen I would be playing it. BW has a bit of a stretched manabase (hense the oxen), but Italia isn't better and has a worse carpool IMO. Being able to run so much discard along with Bob, Bitter, SFM, and Elspeth is very powerful

Yes, joe, I have play that kind of "deadguy" variant, too. Pretty sweet deck, IMO.

BW (Deadguy) = proactive with discard
UW ("landstill") = reactive with counter

The other thing is that I have never seen an Italia list with more than 1 basic...

If I had Scrublands I would likely run:

Quote from Pringlesman

How important is standstill/ancestral visions to the blue version of this deck?

You use most of your resources holding off the other deck early on. Unless you're in a position to drop a turn 2 SFM or turn 4 Jace, with THIS deck (which is sometimes hard), you're going to need to reload since most of your spells are one-for-one.

Quote from Pringlesman

I've found I can play all the cards I want if I skip on those four slots.

That sounds like every time I draw my initial seven and think "WOW, this hand has a lot of juice! Oh, right, that's because there's 0-1 lands".

Also, drop the sower for another clique. It's going to be far more useful, come down sooner, and for 4 mana, you'd rather be playing jace.

The problem with BW is that it has a worse combo match up. It is slightly stronger against the other decks but the lack of permission makes it harder to stop combo from recovering if you don't have a strong hand.

I would personally go for BWr. Ajani Vengeant, Pyroblast and Moon are very powerful where I am.

Combo is definitely on the downshift, so I wouldn't mind a weaker combo MU. Though personally I feel it has a stronger MU... Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, IoK, and Hymn!

I don't think I can bring myself to play 0 basics. Although I do love Moon in my UWr list

So is BWr better against combo? I really can't see how it stops combo that is not blue based. Like how does it stop ANT? I'm just curious how I can format my deck to beat combo. Do you think BWr is better against general blue decks or no? Here in Japan, people are in love with blue. Tons of blue decks running around...

It depends... Wasteland decks or no? I would run BW against Bant, but BWr against Fish. I also feel BW would be better vs tempo, both because of cards like Bitter, as well as because you are less venerable to both wasteland and stifle.

Vs some combo decks REB could be helpful, but if ANT/TES is what your facing it won't matter. I don't feel Ajani is that great in legacy, especially compared to JTMS and Elspeth. I kinda wish Ajani was printed in Worldwake, as I would have loved to play him at the top of a Boros curve :/