So we finally saw a stoneblade deck take down a SCG event, I think I really like his build with the V. island, seems good in the mirror match with REB and Pyro-B.
I'm glad we finally did, too. It was also impressive that much of the field was NO RUG, which in my testing is usually a slightly unfavourable matchup for us. I wasn't very happy with the shocking lack of diversity in that SCG Open's Top 16, though Tons of Stoneblade and NO RUG but little else.
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@ Grand Superior: I think you sideboarded incorrectly round 2. Crucible is HUGE in that matchup.
Jitte isn't.
I really did. I just thought that I absolutely had to destroy any faeries and Mystics that he managed to have with Umezawa's Jitte, but then Crucible of Worlds would've stolen that game if I had a Wasteland-lock going. Hell, any non-basic land hate is insane against our deck because we run a plethora of nonbasic lands and several colourless lands.
Ah well, live and learn.
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I'm glad we finally did, too. It was also impressive that much of the field was NO RUG, which in my testing is usually a slightly unfavourable matchup for us. I wasn't very happy with the shocking lack of diversity in that SCG Open's Top 16, though Tons of Stoneblade and NO RUG but little else.
Yeah, I know what you mean, where was show and tell? Hive mind looks like it just disappeared.
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winning isnt everything, it's the only thing
Caw-Blade by Me!
Format: Standard - NPH
Location: 2011 MMS Qualifier - Minneapolis, MN (6/4)
Players: 99
Finished: 2nd Place
I'm interested in playing this deck, but I have a few questions for you veterans first before I sink the money into it.
1. What's the general opinion of Ancestral Vision vs Standstill? I've seen heavy usage of both but I feel that one should be superior to the other overall.
2. What's the general opinion of the Spellstutter Sprite / Mutavault package? Is it a mainstay to this deck, or should I look for other options?
3. What is, overall, the strongest equipment package for the main deck? I've seen Sword of Feast and Famine and Batterskull as the two that everyone really goes for, so are those the staple choices?
Please pardon me for being so new to this. I decided to withdraw from standard while the focal point of the deck was legal and probably missed out on a ton of play testing and familiarity experience in doing so, and nothing really replaces experience and a feel of comfort.
1. Ancestral Vision is slow and is a horribly bad topdeck, but you'll rarely run into the situation where you can't use it. Standstill is amazing when you're ahead and gets you the cards quicker (and against an opponent that doesn't know how to play around Standstill it just lets you win the game), but when you're behind it is a dead card and you can't use it reliably against decks with AEther Vial/manlands. Test em both out and see which one works best for you. One isn't necessarily better than the other and as said earlier in the thread, this choice is a meta call.
2. The extra faeries package ups your percentage significantly versus Hive Mind (Spellstutter Sprite is a way to counter your copy of a pact under a Hive Mind) and gives you more dorks to equip weapons to, but I'm personally not a fan of shoehorning Mutavaults into the deck just to make Spellstutter Sprite work. It seems to be the latest trend with this deck, though, so it must be working if so many Stoneblade players on SCG Opens are making the switch.
3. Batterskull is pretty much a staple choice. I don't think I've ever seen a UW Stoneblade list that did not have a Batterskull in it. The Sword choice is really up to the player. The Stoneblade variants we saw at GP Providence ran Sword of Body and Mind because protection from blue and from green are the most relevant protections in Legacy but some players (myself included) made the switch to Sword of Feast and Famine because it still gives you protection from Tarmogoyf but the abilities of forced discard and Early Harvest are just better. I still keep a Sword of Fire and Ice in my sideboard so I have access to a pro-blue Sword, though.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy:UR Sneak and Show IUBG Team America IX Metalworker MUD Modern:UBR Blue Jund IWBX Eldrazi Processors IX Affinity IWRG Nacatl Burn IGR Tron IUBR Grishoalbrand
1. Ancestral Vision is slow and is a horribly bad topdeck, but you'll rarely run into the situation where you can't use it. Standstill is amazing when you're ahead and gets you the cards quicker (and against an opponent that doesn't know how to play around Standstill it just lets you win the game), but when you're behind it is a dead card and you can't use it reliably against decks with AEther Vial/manlands. Test em both out and see which one works best for you. One isn't necessarily better than the other and as said earlier in the thread, this choice is a meta call.
2. The extra faeries package ups your percentage significantly versus Hive Mind (Spellstutter Sprite is a way to counter your copy of a pact under a Hive Mind) and gives you more dorks to equip weapons to, but I'm personally not a fan of shoehorning Mutavaults into the deck just to make Spellstutter Sprite work. It seems to be the latest trend with this deck, though, so it must be working if so many Stoneblade players on SCG Opens are making the switch.
3. Batterskull is pretty much a staple choice. I don't think I've ever seen a UW Stoneblade list that did not have a Batterskull in it. The Sword choice is really up to the player. The Stoneblade variants we saw at GP Providence ran Sword of Body and Mind because protection from blue and from green are the most relevant protections in Legacy but some players (myself included) made the switch to Sword of Feast and Famine because it still gives you protection from Tarmogoyf but the abilities of forced discard and Early Harvest are just better. I still keep a Sword of Fire and Ice in my sideboard so I have access to a pro-blue Sword, though.
Thank you for all of that. I also like Sword of Feast and Famine better. I also took favor toward Ancestral Visions over Standstill between the two, but I value more experienced opinions over my own (until I consider my opinion "experienced" ;))
Has this thread addressed main-decking Crucible of Worlds yet? That's another common variation I'm seeing so far.
I've been testing a full set of Stifle in the SSS/daze/spell snare slot, and its been really good!
The combination of Wasteland + Stifle means that you can randomly just win games, and forcing your opponent to burn their missteps early is actually pretty good when you are in the mid game trying to resolve a swords.
Another sweet card that I was testing for a while was Repeal. In a field full of stoneforge mirrors, hitting the germ token mid combat was insane, but in the end it was just a little too cute
Here is my current list at the moment for reference, I really want to squeeze a 4th jace in there, but the crucible does a fairly similar job. In 6 months I'll probably be playing a standstill version, but I'm just not familiar enough with the deck to gain any significant advantage off of it, but i still think that the standstill version is correct, as standstill is a card much like stifle and wasteland, if the opponent messes up or doesn't understand how to play around and under it properly, it can just win you games on the spot
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Stifle
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
1 Plains
It is probably a little land light, but I feel like in a field full of mirrors, getting a little bit lucky is probably a legitimate path to victory
[EDIT: Splashing REBs in the SB has to be 100% correct at this point, I'm assuming]
In 6 months I'll probably be playing a standstill version, but I'm just not familiar enough with the deck to gain any significant advantage off of it, but i still think that the standstill version is correct, as standstill is a card much like stifle and wasteland, if the opponent messes up or doesn't understand how to play around and under it properly, it can just win you games on the spot
I'm not sure playing a card to beat less talented players should be its primary use?
Another thank you to those posters that helped me before. I decided to proxy a preliminary list with which to begin play testing before any actual paper investment. Here's what I want to start with:
I'm not sure playing a card to beat less talented players should be its primary use?
The function that standstill plays is different to vision, vision puts emphasis on surviving to the mid game, and then rewards you for trading spells early. When visions resolves it should put you far enough ahead that you can just cruise, however, if you don't win the fight over vision, it puts you pretty far behind as you have spent a lot of resources to try and own the early game and have not been rewarded for it. Standstill functions differently, it requires that you be in front on board for it to be playable, however, in a deck with wastelands, man lands and X free counters, getting a very small advantage by turn 2 is probable. Standstill doesn't reward you for reaching the mid game, it reaches the mid game for you. The cards are very different, I know you understand this, just clearing it up a little bit further for others.
Also, standstill wasteland and stifle don't just get you free wins off bad players, some good players get greedy at times and keep nut draws with 1 land etc, and being able to just beat them on turn 1 is insane
@ Mia, re any glaring holes in the deck: Splashing REB in the SB off of a single Volcanic is definitely correct
[EDIT: Another thing that I haven't tested but I assume would be insane in the mirror is adding the Thopter Sword combo into the deck in the SSS Daze Snare slot]
Visions is also good because if you're Visions gets countered you have all the mana available to cast Jace. That is why I think you should play at least three Jaces.
We have so many good early turn plays; Misstep, Snare, Clique, Mystic.. We will probably be ahead when Visions hits the stack. This will put our opponent in a miserable position. If you're not ahead and your Visions gets countered, you should at least be able to just drop a Jace.
I'm not sure playing a card to beat less talented players should be its primary use?
Another thank you to those posters that helped me before. I decided to proxy a preliminary list with which to begin play testing before any actual paper investment. Here's what I want to start with:
I use her main for making swords hit the opponent since most people can't block in the air well. Handy especially if you are using the Body and Mind one. It's also for pumping the heck out of Batterskull to gain more life than people can reasonably deal a turn. This is good for racing Progenitis or some such. She is also good for providing attackers against decks that have a ton of removal like Mono-B control or similar overkill styles. She blocks Thrun all day long too.
I don't board one myself, but I can see why people would based on the uses.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant is amazing versus the control mirror, produces dorks to equip weapons to, and she's reasonably good at attacking enemy Jaces. Also, if you can land her ultimate, you pretty much can't lose against aggro decks like Zoo.
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I just hammered out a rough first draft. This list utilizes the thopter/sword combo but does not rely on it. It is still a great shell and only dedicating 5 cards for that specific combo. Thoughts?
I'm glad we finally did, too. It was also impressive that much of the field was NO RUG, which in my testing is usually a slightly unfavourable matchup for us. I wasn't very happy with the shocking lack of diversity in that SCG Open's Top 16, though Tons of Stoneblade and NO RUG but little else.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
Jitte isn't.
I really did. I just thought that I absolutely had to destroy any faeries and Mystics that he managed to have with Umezawa's Jitte, but then Crucible of Worlds would've stolen that game if I had a Wasteland-lock going. Hell, any non-basic land hate is insane against our deck because we run a plethora of nonbasic lands and several colourless lands.
Ah well, live and learn.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
Yeah, I know what you mean, where was show and tell? Hive mind looks like it just disappeared.
Format: Standard - NPH
Location: 2011 MMS Qualifier - Minneapolis, MN (6/4)
Players: 99
Finished: 2nd Place
TRADE THREAD
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=347708
1. What's the general opinion of Ancestral Vision vs Standstill? I've seen heavy usage of both but I feel that one should be superior to the other overall.
2. What's the general opinion of the Spellstutter Sprite / Mutavault package? Is it a mainstay to this deck, or should I look for other options?
3. What is, overall, the strongest equipment package for the main deck? I've seen Sword of Feast and Famine and Batterskull as the two that everyone really goes for, so are those the staple choices?
Please pardon me for being so new to this. I decided to withdraw from standard while the focal point of the deck was legal and probably missed out on a ton of play testing and familiarity experience in doing so, and nothing really replaces experience and a feel of comfort.
Thanks everyone.
2. The extra faeries package ups your percentage significantly versus Hive Mind (Spellstutter Sprite is a way to counter your copy of a pact under a Hive Mind) and gives you more dorks to equip weapons to, but I'm personally not a fan of shoehorning Mutavaults into the deck just to make Spellstutter Sprite work. It seems to be the latest trend with this deck, though, so it must be working if so many Stoneblade players on SCG Opens are making the switch.
3. Batterskull is pretty much a staple choice. I don't think I've ever seen a UW Stoneblade list that did not have a Batterskull in it. The Sword choice is really up to the player. The Stoneblade variants we saw at GP Providence ran Sword of Body and Mind because protection from blue and from green are the most relevant protections in Legacy but some players (myself included) made the switch to Sword of Feast and Famine because it still gives you protection from Tarmogoyf but the abilities of forced discard and Early Harvest are just better. I still keep a Sword of Fire and Ice in my sideboard so I have access to a pro-blue Sword, though.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
Thank you for all of that. I also like Sword of Feast and Famine better. I also took favor toward Ancestral Visions over Standstill between the two, but I value more experienced opinions over my own (until I consider my opinion "experienced" ;))
Has this thread addressed main-decking Crucible of Worlds yet? That's another common variation I'm seeing so far.
The combination of Wasteland + Stifle means that you can randomly just win games, and forcing your opponent to burn their missteps early is actually pretty good when you are in the mid game trying to resolve a swords.
Another sweet card that I was testing for a while was Repeal. In a field full of stoneforge mirrors, hitting the germ token mid combat was insane, but in the end it was just a little too cute
Here is my current list at the moment for reference, I really want to squeeze a 4th jace in there, but the crucible does a fairly similar job. In 6 months I'll probably be playing a standstill version, but I'm just not familiar enough with the deck to gain any significant advantage off of it, but i still think that the standstill version is correct, as standstill is a card much like stifle and wasteland, if the opponent messes up or doesn't understand how to play around and under it properly, it can just win you games on the spot
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Stifle
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
1 Plains
It is probably a little land light, but I feel like in a field full of mirrors, getting a little bit lucky is probably a legitimate path to victory
[EDIT: Splashing REBs in the SB has to be 100% correct at this point, I'm assuming]
I'm not sure playing a card to beat less talented players should be its primary use?
Another thank you to those posters that helped me before. I decided to proxy a preliminary list with which to begin play testing before any actual paper investment. Here's what I want to start with:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalker: 3
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Spell: 23
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Mental Misstep
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
4 Mutavault
3 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
3 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Wrath of God
2 Path to Exile
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Force of Will
1 Batterskull
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Spell Snare
If there are any glaring holes, can someone here let me know? Again, my inexperience should speak volumes by itself. Thanks everyone.
Riptide over Karakas since Riptide can bounce both spellstutter and clique
I'd be inclined to disagree. Riptide Laboratory can't bounce reanimated fatties, or emrakul, or gaddock teeg. Riptide also eats 3 lands, where as Karkaras is just itself.
Maverick -- Storm
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Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
The function that standstill plays is different to vision, vision puts emphasis on surviving to the mid game, and then rewards you for trading spells early. When visions resolves it should put you far enough ahead that you can just cruise, however, if you don't win the fight over vision, it puts you pretty far behind as you have spent a lot of resources to try and own the early game and have not been rewarded for it. Standstill functions differently, it requires that you be in front on board for it to be playable, however, in a deck with wastelands, man lands and X free counters, getting a very small advantage by turn 2 is probable. Standstill doesn't reward you for reaching the mid game, it reaches the mid game for you. The cards are very different, I know you understand this, just clearing it up a little bit further for others.
Also, standstill wasteland and stifle don't just get you free wins off bad players, some good players get greedy at times and keep nut draws with 1 land etc, and being able to just beat them on turn 1 is insane
[EDIT: Another thing that I haven't tested but I assume would be insane in the mirror is adding the Thopter Sword combo into the deck in the SSS Daze Snare slot]
Legitimate question: what is REB?
We have so many good early turn plays; Misstep, Snare, Clique, Mystic.. We will probably be ahead when Visions hits the stack. This will put our opponent in a miserable position. If you're not ahead and your Visions gets countered, you should at least be able to just drop a Jace.
I was wondering why is people sideboarding Elspeth, Knight-Errant??
I don't board one myself, but I can see why people would based on the uses.
<----Patiently waits for Balance to be legal in Legacy.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
3 vandillion clique
1 batterskull
1 sword of feast and famine
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 mental misstep
4 ancestral visions
3 swords to plowshare
2 sword of the meek
3 jace the mind sculptor
1 crucible of worlds
3 island
1 planes
4 flooded strand
4 mishras factory
4 tundra
4 wasteland
2 academy ruins
1 scalding tarn