I do wonder... how is the lybrary slot paying of for you?
I ended up using the sensei's top over it, because it's colorless, cost less, it has the ability of fixing your bob triggers, and to fix your cascaded spell as well, plus, the possibility of drawing a cards in eot like bolts or abrupts if needed...
yet the mana used to activate it, sometimes matters...
what about the mirri's guile? seems a decent compromise between the two, yet it's probably worse than both
Just throwing in my support for Sylvan Library. The card is just nuts. Much much better than Top in this style of deck. Top can fix draws, but so can Library, and Library does it for no activation cost. Also against slow control and certain combo decks where you don't worry about your life total, library can be a mini-Necropotence. In a deck with counter-magic top is better, but in midrange aggro decks like Jund or Junk, library is just better.
As for Punishing Fire: I never played with it outside of when it was still modern legal. But I'm not sure if I like it in a format with Wasteland and where Deathrite Shaman is all over the place.
First casting kills DRS. Plus you can return it in response to a DRS activation
I've been playing Reid Duke's Jund list for a bit now and am noticing a consistent problem. I'm really not sure how to get around it or if it's an unavoidable weakness of the deck. Games tend to play out one of the following ways:
1. I draw a good mix of disruption and early pressure and win
2. I draw enough disruption, stick bob or library and eventually win
3. I draw enough disruption but cannot stick bob or library and flood out while the opponent eventually recovers
4. I do not draw enough disruption and flat out lose (mainly a problem vs combo)
The problem is that number three is happening WAY too often. The only way to get real card advantage seems to be Bob or Library (a singleton in Reid's build), and Bob is just insanely fragile. Bloodbraid Elf can sometimes net you card advantage, too... but not often enough to mitigate the chance of flooding unless you are already way ahead. You also run a lot of discard, which adds to the number of dead draws in the lategame.
Is there any way around this problem or is it just fundamental to the deck?
All that matters is that you know you are right ^.^ Congrats to Jund, was expecting belcher to pull that one off being that it was belcher in the finals against.
I'm amazed SCG hasn't jacked up the price of Badlands yet.
Badlands, Blodstained Mire, and Wooded Foothill will likely go up with the rise of Jund... We all know SCG raises anything that becomes somewhat popular.
I started pulling Jund together about 3 weeks ago, and i'm almost done. I'll post my list within a few days
i hope the hype of jund does not affect the price not until i buy a play set of badlands and bloodstained mire. LOL
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A team should be as happy as a meal - TEAM HAPPYMEAL
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
You were so right your post was surely deleted by evil moderators...
Anyway, with Punishing Jund raise, prepare for Punishing Maverick to come back.
Yea it wasn't in this thread. It's in the "anti-bug control" cards thread in the main legacy, anyways. I was merely pointing out that I had documented that this was going to happen soon, despite multiple people trying to suggest I was somehow mislead to believe this. Apparently people can't comprehend how Punishing Fire is good against 1/2's and 2/1's. Oh well. : /
Maverick isn't super well positioned due to Abrupt Decay and Deathrite Shaman being stellar against it, Knight of the Reliquary in particular (horrid against Deathrite Shaman). Punishing Fire DOES help this of course, in multiple shells, so maybe that's enough. Mother of Runes is probably very good, assuming you can get her online, it might have game.
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
I'm currently running a 18 creature list with Wasteland and no Fire.
Infest and Dread have their differences. Dread is far better against Lingering Souls and Maverick, but Infest gives you a leg up against Merfolk, Goblins (which is having a comeback where I am). Maverick isn't too popular here.
Pros:
*Abrupt Decay
*Sylvan Library remains amazing
*Abrupt Decay
*Grim Lavamancer and Ooze screwing with enemy DRS
Cons:
*I don't know if I want to be playing BBE. Seriously. I know the card is great and all... but it's 4 mana. Sometimes I get stuck at 3 for a while.
*The manabase. Maybe it's because I'm more used to running Bwg with 6+ basics, but I really wish our color reqs were a little lighter.
*Enemy white decks. Especially BWG. We have a lot of trouble dealing with Hero of Bladehold and Wilt-Leaf Liege.
For extra fancyness, run Kavu Predator, Punishing Fire and Devour Flesh.
But on another note, without counting it seems like around 70 out of your 75 cards (3 of which are Wastelands) are exactly what I was running a few weeks ago when I went 6:0 in tournament. It has been proven successful for me, but I want to try the Punishing Fire list this Saturday. I'll report how it went.
Great minds eh? The deck works. The main variation I have ran is -1 Library, -1 Lftl, -3 Wasteland, +2 Jitte, +3 Treetop Village. That variation is killer against a control heavy meta, but I think I prefer Wasteland and Lftl right now with all the BGx decks running amuck.
i'm neigther a fan of bbe, but i neighter know what to play over it. :/
Other creatures. Ooze and Grim are my favorites, but I've also considered Strangleroot Geist and a few others. Feel free to experiment with creature choices.
Just throwing in my support for Sylvan Library. The card is just nuts. Much much better than Top in this style of deck. Top can fix draws, but so can Library, and Library does it for no activation cost. Also against slow control and certain combo decks where you don't worry about your life total, library can be a mini-Necropotence. In a deck with counter-magic top is better, but in midrange aggro decks like Jund or Junk, library is just better.
Sylvan gives you the option of drawing more than 1 card.
First casting kills DRS. Plus you can return it in response to a DRS activation
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
1. I draw a good mix of disruption and early pressure and win
2. I draw enough disruption, stick bob or library and eventually win
3. I draw enough disruption but cannot stick bob or library and flood out while the opponent eventually recovers
4. I do not draw enough disruption and flat out lose (mainly a problem vs combo)
The problem is that number three is happening WAY too often. The only way to get real card advantage seems to be Bob or Library (a singleton in Reid's build), and Bob is just insanely fragile. Bloodbraid Elf can sometimes net you card advantage, too... but not often enough to mitigate the chance of flooding unless you are already way ahead. You also run a lot of discard, which adds to the number of dead draws in the lategame.
Is there any way around this problem or is it just fundamental to the deck?
Which post are you referring to?
1. Plan against DnT?
2. Punishing Fire or no Punishing Fire?
Man I'm tired of being right.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
Badlands, Blodstained Mire, and Wooded Foothill will likely go up with the rise of Jund... We all know SCG raises anything that becomes somewhat popular.
I started pulling Jund together about 3 weeks ago, and i'm almost done. I'll post my list within a few days
RUG
Enchantress
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
Yea it wasn't in this thread. It's in the "anti-bug control" cards thread in the main legacy, anyways. I was merely pointing out that I had documented that this was going to happen soon, despite multiple people trying to suggest I was somehow mislead to believe this. Apparently people can't comprehend how Punishing Fire is good against 1/2's and 2/1's. Oh well. : /
Maverick isn't super well positioned due to Abrupt Decay and Deathrite Shaman being stellar against it, Knight of the Reliquary in particular (horrid against Deathrite Shaman). Punishing Fire DOES help this of course, in multiple shells, so maybe that's enough. Mother of Runes is probably very good, assuming you can get her online, it might have game.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
legacy: Doomsday, Dredge, BUG (shard less and still)
modern: storm, woo dredge, U-tron
EDH: maelstrom wanderer, Gisela, krenko, lazav, sharrum, sheoldred/xiahou dun, norin the wary, Thrax, Mimeoplasm, GW legends
2 Pyroclasm
3 Pyroblast
2 Duress
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Life from the Loam
I'm currently running a 18 creature list with Wasteland and no Fire.
Infest and Dread have their differences. Dread is far better against Lingering Souls and Maverick, but Infest gives you a leg up against Merfolk, Goblins (which is having a comeback where I am). Maverick isn't too popular here.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Dammit.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavaging Ooze
4 Dark Confidant
2 Bloodbraid Elf
Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Taurach
2 Sylvan Library
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Wasteland
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Badlands
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroclasm
3 Pyroblast
2 Duress
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Life from the Loam
Pros:
*Abrupt Decay
*Sylvan Library remains amazing
*Abrupt Decay
*Grim Lavamancer and Ooze screwing with enemy DRS
Cons:
*I don't know if I want to be playing BBE. Seriously. I know the card is great and all... but it's 4 mana. Sometimes I get stuck at 3 for a while.
*The manabase. Maybe it's because I'm more used to running Bwg with 6+ basics, but I really wish our color reqs were a little lighter.
*Enemy white decks. Especially BWG. We have a lot of trouble dealing with Hero of Bladehold and Wilt-Leaf Liege.
EDIT: Cut another BBE for a Garruk
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Great minds eh? The deck works. The main variation I have ran is -1 Library, -1 Lftl, -3 Wasteland, +2 Jitte, +3 Treetop Village. That variation is killer against a control heavy meta, but I think I prefer Wasteland and Lftl right now with all the BGx decks running amuck.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Other creatures. Ooze and Grim are my favorites, but I've also considered Strangleroot Geist and a few others. Feel free to experiment with creature choices.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit