MTG Salvation

Def a big contender now eh.

2 Jund's at the Grand Prix for Legacy top 8, this deck sure has had a fast rise, grats to Jund players.

Quote from Pasab

This is so great to hear, blue based decks have a serious contender now.

You mean to say ... Blue based decks have some serious competition (which they have had anyways, but this gives the non-blue decks even more ammo).

Quote from Pasab

I want to try a singleton Domri Rade in this deck, I feel he could be synergistic with Liliana, letting us draw a creature via deck manipulation after discarding, being able to be a target for Bloodbraid Elf and getting rid of target creature via fight where goyf could shine.

Too costly. That's why we have bob in the deck. He draws us extra cards regardless of whether or not they're creatures.

Quote from Raggedjoe

Tested a bit more. TBH I'm not a huge fan. I like Junk a lot more. We don't get to play with Lingering Souls which is sad, and I don't like BBE. It forces you to play more lands (I run 20 lands of which 3 are wasteland in Junk) and doesn't really seem worth it. Lightning Bolts are cool and all, but It's not the deck for me.

Understandable. I think part of Jund's popularity has partly to do with its success in modern. Even though I play the deck in modern and would likely also play it in legacy simply because I own the cards, I feel like decks like nic-fit, junk, and BUG aggro are probably better in the long run. Jund still has good potency though. Thankfully its newest additions has allowed it to be played in legacy as it is, instead of having the aggro loam variant.

Quote from Pasab

This is a planeswalker, it has other abilities than drawing cards. Your argument remembers me those used against Deathrite Shaman ("he is worst than Grim Lavamancer, Scavenging Ooze, ..."). Domri is a swiss knife army like DRS and I have the feeling he can work very well with Liliana. As I already said, I don't want to run 3 of it, but just one.

How many creatures and Top effects (Sensei's Divining Top, Sylvan Library) combined are you planning on playing? Take that number, divide that by 60, and multiply it by 100%--are you willing to draw cards with Domri roughly that percentage of the time? (Your raw percentage is # of creatures / 60 x 100%--that number should skyrocket if you have an active Top.)

The one time I experimented with 20 creatures, 3 Tops, and 3 Domris in Jund (33% flip rate pre-Top), I took out removal to fit the package in, had to insert creatures that acted as removal, and still paid with a bad Maverick match-up. I'm also haunted by the game where I got Domri to 6 loyalty against OmniTell, flipped 2 creatures in the process, and still lost (against myself).

Huh. Was this thread just moved to Established in the last few minutes? Could've sworn that just a few minutes ago it was in Developing.

It's been here a few days.

Nice double Top 4 result in the GP, a bit of bad luck against the eventual champion from both players (Top decked Perish against double Shaman at 2 life).

I was starting to wonder what mysterious force was keeping Legacy safe from Jund, and that crazy elfin-creature.

It's caught on in Beijing fairly quickly, I know several people who have built the deck. Strangely I haven't seen them actually using it in tournaments, but it's out there.

Quote from Pasab

This is a planeswalker, it has other abilities than drawing cards. Your argument remembers me those used against Deathrite Shaman ("he is worst than Grim Lavamancer, Scavenging Ooze, ..."). Domri is a swiss knife army like DRS and I have the feeling he can work very well with Liliana. As I already said, I don't want to run 3 of it, but just one.

I just find it hard to believe that a planeswalker with such an inconsistent + ability would be a good tool for a legacy deck. His other abilities may be of some use against other aggro decks, but otherwise, he's way too slow for decks that don't care about how many creatures you have.

I am really liking how Jund has great card advantage with Hymn, Bob and Bloodbraid (Sylvan's help out when needed). Even if you use your bolts and decays to one for one, when you stabilize, it is really favorable. The wastelands and random hymns for lands is big.

I'd like to see how effective its game plan is vs ANT and Sneak Show.

I ended up taking 31st at Columbus with Jund, after losing round 9 to Kevin Gerhart and dropping from 12th :(. That said I found the deck to be incredibly resilient to most match ups. I found that top is slightly better than sylvan library for the pure sake that I can respond better to bob triggers and I can respond to bloodbraid elf cascade. It's also nice that top protects itself.

I'm glad that this deck is in the established section and has been getting some attention, as it has certainly earned it with the results it has put up in the weekend.

During play in the weekend I found myself really wanting to go turn one shaman, turn two wasteland then bob or hymn. I don't think I lost a game with that set up the the first two turns. Anyway, for anyone that is interested here was the deck list I brought.



I split thoughtseize and iok just because of some concerns against a deck like UR delver or etc with the life loss from bob. I'll probably end up cutting a wasteland and adding an 8th fetch.

Quote from Pasab

I guess you would have end higher on the card by playing 3 Liliana instead of 1 + 2 Terminate...

Not sure what you mean by 'end higher on the card' so I'm sort of making the assumption that your asking why terminates took Liliana's spot. I had two lilianas originally, one in main and one in board. The one in the board got taken out last second. I regret it now, as I wish I played 2. I don't think I would of wanted 3 though.

The terminates were mainly there because of the popularity of tomb stalker that I saw. I didn't really want to have only sorcery speed answers to him, with lily not being a solid answer on her own either.

@Pasab
I agree that Liliana is a very solid card for Jund. Like I said I regretted only running one, I under valued her. But I don't think 4 is necessary, particularly if you are running a decent amount of tops or sylvan libraries. Even with one I saw her at least once in most of my matches. Between Bloodbraid elf, bob, and top/library for a non blue deck we see a very large amount of cards. I think 2-3 is the right number, I'd probably play 2 main 1 in board. As for dealing with tombstalker, I really didn't want to count on liliana to get rid of him. Counting on 3 mana sorcery speed removal that doesn't work if they have a second creature could possibly end poorly. These were judgment calls I made, and in some games they paid off and some they really bit me. I'd probably turn one of the terminates into another Liliana, like I said I really wanted another as I played. However I want at least a single answer in the deck at instant speed for a large creature like stalker, or other larger unexpected creatures. However this is under the mentality of running at least 3 tops as I do, so I'm used to seeing half my deck during a game.

The lists that were in the top 8 were running 4 liliana but only one card for library manipulation. If you run 3-4 tops I'm fairly sure you can get away with 3 Liliana, possibly 2 and have a high probability of seeing a copy.

@affinityformilfs
Treetop is a real nice card to be able to see in matches like UW miracles to finish up a match. It's also pretty good in a format so dominated by abrupt decay. It's nice to have as an optional beater against decks like Team Italia, which that match up often turns into a removal war then both decks in top deck mode. The one of rarely hurt and like I said before with enough library manipulation you can find one ofs like that a lot easier. In the builds that were in the GP without top I wouldn't really recommend it since it's a lot less likely that you'll see it.
As for the tops, no not really. I started off with four tops, and that did get a little awkward. However with three I didn't run into a lot of issues with seeing them in multiples. Being able to stack cascades and bob is really nice and saved me several games. I think it's a nice utility and rewards 1-2 ofs in the main like deed.

Also on your comment of the thoughtseize/iok question although I did reference it in my original post I wanted to clarify a bit. I ran 2/2 because I was worried about burn and UR delver lists combined with the damage off of bob. Not as popular among high end competitors, but I was at an open, not a pro tour. I say unless you have a field that would require otherwise just play thoughtseize. Not being able to Iok Jace is pretty huge. If you're in a meta that you expect a lot of him (like most high competitive metas) then you're better off with just thoughtseize.

Quote from Pasab

I run 3 Liliana and feel it's the good number. Don't know yet if I'm going through Wasteland path or Punishing Fire path ? Your thoughts?

Ironic you say this because I was going to comment on punishing fire being an interesting route for this deck. P-fire is fantastic in this dork-meta and plays on Jund's propensity to play card advantage-worthy slots. Fire can even keep up with lingering souls + planeswalkers. The only real debate is whether you'd like to cut the wasteland position of mana denial and color screw. Wasteland is good and bad for reasons we all know. Punishing Fire could be a meta decision for aggro-heavy metagames.

For the deck, I personally would run 2-3 lili maindeck and would push for hymn, sieze, and bolt x4. Abrupt decay 2-3x.

I'm curious if Lotleth Troll has a place in this deck - or anywhere in Legacy for that matter. As a solid 2-mana guy with reasonable abilities I would think he'd at least get some consideration. Certainly regen in Legacy is not as relevant with all the Swords and Paths, but still it's something. Troll can also grow bigger rather easily, and has Trample too. I'm not super familiar with the Legacy Jund deck...maybe he doesn't belong at all there, but he's at least comparable to Goyf in some ways - capable of growing bigger (again, maybe not the right shell for him), and has the abilities Goyf doesn't. So I'd love to read some comments from those experienced with the archetype, or on others where Troll might fit. It's entirely possible I just like the card way too much.

Here's my newest list



I'm also trying out Grim, but I can't quite bring him into the main deck. I do need more dudes though, so I've opted for Oozes. On the side, I have a mesh of different things. I'm thinking of cutting Duress because we have a solid Storm matchup with 8 main deck discard spells. Probably for another Extirpate and something.

I think we should be at 22-23 lands. 21 stops me from hitting 4 and 24 is just too many. I think Treetop is the best land to play. Wasteland doesn't help us cast spells making it effectively a buisness spell in a land spot and frankly playing this deck idgaf about mana denial. Treetop helps our game vs control. PF is nice, but unnessissary with all the removal we have already.

I'm giving Library a spin to see how I like it.