The decision will all base on what version of Nic Fit your are playing. I am currently trying out a BUG list so magister of worth is out for me. It is certainly a good option at least in my eyes as it deals with everything including TTN, however it is harder to search up as it is not a green creature for Green sun
Tasigur seems to be a NoGo in Nic fit. Especially with the Grove + PFire engine. You don´t want to delve such cards like Therapy or Pfire away to cast a 4/5 Vanilla ;).
I actually haven't done a ton of play testing with Jund because I ended opting into Junk instead, but I figure I'll comment anyway.
I agree with the poster above, Tasigur is not what we want. For all his negatives, I find being a legend is a huge liability. Karakas bounces him and that's rough. [card] Gurmag Angler[/card} seems more reliable than he is--the extra power and lack of being a legend makes him more useful than the ability. When I first started out testing, I was just Black/Green and I tried Grave Titan (along with a set of hymns). Whenever he resolved, I almost always won the game, but I often couldn't find him since he was only run as 2 of. I even tried running Fierce Empath as a 1 of to find with GSZ to find Grave Titan--needless to say, I just realized I want my threats to be green. Thrun alot slightly smaller can't be countered and is pretty much unkillable short of toxic deluge or a sac effect. I am not entirely convinced you need another 4 drop with a pair of huntmasters though. I should also mention since i am junk, I run a pair of stoneforges, so I can find some equipment to make Thrun a bigger threat. Your mileage may vary. Prime Time might be another guy to consider since he can find wolfrun and stronghold for you.
Speaking of non basic lands, have you tried phyrexian tower? It will stress your mana base a bit, but some of the most powerful starts I've had are like, turn 1 Vet, into tower on turn 2 and then having 5 mana to do something amazing with. For me it is often Rhino or GSZ into Rhino. I don't think Huntsmaster is bad turn 2 play.
On that note, the strongest idea in my mind to play Jund because PF/Grove/LoTV was for Slaughter Games. It was amazing against control decks like Miracles or Tez because you can power it out, they can't stop you, and you can not only get perfect information about their deck, but you can rip out their win cons. Against Miracles in particular you can gut an entire avenue of victory--I actually sub out Vets for carpet of flowers in that match up as well. I don't think you need Blood Moons as much because you are already really powerful against fair decks with again PF/Grove/LotV/Deed. You are pretty much their worst nightmare. if you want to diversify your sweepers, you could take Toxic Deludge over a Deed. Just changing one lets you not be so weak against a Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker on deed. It's a change I've been considering myself.
I run more basics than you do, but I often find that a singleton Recurring Nightmare is a beast. I have often looped Rhino+Explorer back and forth getting a massive amount of land to while searching with top for an answer to Ensnaring Bridge. The funny thing is often times, I never find an answer and just "rhino" them to death with his ETB trigger. I'd imagine Hunstmaster+Explorer or Witness/Thrag would be equally amazing. If your games tend to be fast rather than grindy, it might lose some value and with your grove/pt power, it might not be necessary but at least its worth consideration.
If I had to make cuts I'd do this
-1 Diabolic Tutor
-1 Deathrite Shaman (we can search if we really need it)
-2 Taigur
-1 Deed
+1 Toxic Deludge
+1 Veteran Explorer
+1 Recurring Nightmare
+1 Abrupt Decay (This card has just been an all star for me against a number of decks)
+1 Thurn, the Last Troll (or just another top or the suggest above Diabolic Intent)
Quick thoughts:
Adding in a second Eternal Witness has been really good for the grindier matches.
I switched Primeval Titan for Broodmate Dragon. Prime Time was just too bad against things like StP and Liliana.
I don't like Dryad Militant in the board at all, but I can't think of a better option against Storm that I can GSZ for early enough to matter.
What do you think?
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"You threw your babies away. And you threw your swords away. And you threw away your golf clubs and your tasty treats. And you know what? i found 'em!"
-Charlie Kelly
Quick thoughts:
Adding in a second Eternal Witness has been really good for the grindier matches.
I switched Primeval Titan for Broodmate Dragon. Prime Time was just too bad against things like StP and Liliana.
I don't like Dryad Militant in the board at all, but I can't think of a better option against Storm that I can GSZ for early enough to matter.
What do you think?
I pretty much copied this list and ive been having fun with it. This is my first legacy deck and im really liking the format.
any new developments?
Also is it worth switching red for white? I see a few lists around and im sure stoneforge and teeg are great but is academy rector still worth trying and if so what enchantments ?
I tried 4-color (GBUW), with Rector, Rhino, and some random hate cards. It was way too wonky. But in a straight Junk configuration, Rector can get some sweet enchantments: O-Ring, Recurring Nightmare, P-Deed, Leylines of whatever sort, Moat (if you have one and/or a few hundred bucks laying around).
I think I'm gonna try out the Melira combo in my BUG configuration. I'm already running Murderous Redcap as a value 4-drop, and Kitchen Finks in the 'board; might as well toss em in, right? As much as I love recurring Thragtusks and turning random value creatures sideways, sometimes you gotta just win, amirite?
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
I've been testing Bloodbraid Elf as a 3 of to try to counter-act all the counter magic I've been seeing. Basically my thought was, he is more often than not going to hit something relevant than not and then it's 2 spells for them to counter or deal with. The value is there, he has been nothing short of amazing for me. My only issue is he can't be Zenithed but that's not been a huge issue as I have Huntmaster and Thrun(after boarding) for the 4cc slot. thoughts? Here is the main deck for reference.
DUDES 17
3 Vet Explorer
1 DRS
1 Nezumi Shortfang (has been AMAZING in testing)
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Wood Elves
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
3 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Broodmate Dragon
STUFF -N-THINGS 22
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
4 Punishing Fire
1 Sylvan Library(thinking of a second one somewhere)
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Kolaghans Command
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Birthing Pod
3 Green's Sun Zenith
MANAS 22
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run(this may turn into another basic IDK)
1 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Swamp
1 Taiga
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Wooded Foothills
So long time dragon stompy player here looking to start a new deck. I saw this primer and almost instantly fell in love my question though is what variation of nic fit would be best for someone who doesn't mind spending a lot but would prefer, to spend less. Also the more controlly the better for me. Thanks for the help!
Hello all! It's been quite a while since I checked in over here since writing that primer. I'm primarily a DnT player - a deck that folds to this one pretty hard sometimes, funny enough - and so am kind of out of touch regarding how Nic Fit operates currently (looks like most have shifted to BUG, as opposed to the Junk colors). Is there any reliable poster here or some pro with the deck who'd like to take over updating the primer?
This is the BUG list ive been running lately with various successes, traded out the wood elves for a Nissa, and it seems pretty solid in the deck, thoughts?
This thread is pretty dead, the source has a pretty good thread, but I'll say what I can here. I'm not an expert with the deck but I've been playing it for over a year at this point.
Lately I've been playing Junk, I just switched from BUG and only have a couple small tournaments under my belt with it now. This is the list I'm using, so far I like it but I wouldn't mind finding a cut for one additional land. 21 worked great with Brainstorm in BUG but I think it's slightly too low here.
This is the BUG list ive been running lately with various successes, traded out the wood elves for a Nissa, and it seems pretty solid in the deck, thoughts?
I used to play BUG Pod and I liked it. The big advantage to BUG in my opinion is that you get Trinket Mage to find a wide variety of artifacts. I found that in BUG you still want to play Tops alongside the Brainstorms. This was my list.
As you can see, I tried really hard to leave GSZ as a live spell, the lack of removal was never an issue. The best cards in blue are Trinket Mage, Notion Thief, and Baleful Strix.
What finally made me move away from blue though was the stress on the mana. Once you get past the top tier blue cards, which are mostly splashable you'll find that the second tier Frost Titan, Glen Elendra, Vendilion Clique, Sower of Temptation are all very blue intensive and none of them work with GSZ, then you have Force which mandates you run that second tier in order to have a high concentration of blue cards. In the end what happens is that your GSZ's are weaker and your manabase really suffers because it needs high amounts of blue, green, and black.
When it comes to Nissa (or I suppose this is also true of Wood Elves) you want a 7th basic. 6 for Veteran Explorers and fetches, then 1 for Nissa. Also, give Meren of Clan Nel Toth a try, the card is absolutely incredible.
Yo Aazadan, I'm tinkering with the Sultai list a little bit. We've exchanged posts in the Pod section when the deck was still alive... ;-)
Some first observations :
- your Phyrexian Tower doesn't help playing blue. If you want to accelerate your first turns, you'd better strengthen your manabase by shutting down awkward mana sources (this includes Dryad Arbor as well) and play Deathrite Shaman x3 and Veteran Explorer x3.
- This way, the Wood Elves / Nissa, Vastwood Seer slot gets a better chance of fetching a forest. Nissa seems like a nice upgrade to the other elf. When she flips, she gets out of range of our own Pernicious Deeds / Engineered Explosives. She has nice synergies with Sensei's Divining Top and Brainstorm as well.
- Meren of Clan Nel Toth has indeed been huge for me, in the grindy MUs. She offers a fair counter-engine against Umezawa's Jitte and is un-be-lie-va-ble in a Birthing Pod shell. You want a third copy of the artifact for sure. This is also why DRS is nice in that kind of shell.
- I'm not sure Force of Will is the only way to go for the SB. Very meta-dependant of course, but a strong anti-combo package of discard spells and 1-mana counterspells can do the job. Mindbreak Trap works for Storm, Flusterstorm, Swan Song, Thoughtseize, all these look solid to me.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
After a few years of modern I want to try getting into some legacy with a friend of mine. I've been looking into this type of deck as my first and I kinda want to play the Scapeshift version. Anyone have an updated list of that that I can use to build on?
i would direct you to the source primer, i can send you a link in pm if you want
Would you mind sending it to me as well? And is there any reason discussion isn't really continuing here? This is my main choice in legacy, but I hate not having an easy place to go to talk about it.
Would you mind sending it to me as well? And is there any reason discussion isn't really continuing here? This is my main choice in legacy, but I hate not having an easy place to go to talk about it.
Mostly because the source exists, I think. MTGS doesn't have much legacy discussion, whereas the source is thriving. MTGS also has a little bit of a poor reputation when it comes to competitive play. The nic fit thread over there has to be one of the most active threads on the forum. Compare to this one, which has half a dozen posts in the last three months.
I know this is not optimal yet, I would just like to hear peoples thoughts on this direction for the deck.
You're really light on colored sources. I would cut a Wastes, a Forest, and two Wastelands for Llanowar Wastes. Mana denial with Explorers is futile, so you're really using Wasteland as a colorless source and way to get rid of problematic utility lands. Having the Llanowar Wastes gives you a much greater chance of hitting your important early plays without cutting colorless mana. I'd also ditch two Swamps for another Bayou and a green fetch of some kind, or two green fetches if you're working under budget concerns. You really only need 6-7 basics to have a commanding mana lead against most legacy decks, so focus on hitting colors quickly. Making the changes I suggested gives you 15 G, 13 B (14 with Phyrexian Tower), and 8 C in your lands. That's not ideal, but it gives you good odds to see G and B early without cutting you off of colorless entirely.
Three Ewits seems like too many, and 4+4 Vets/DRS is also a lot, especially with only 4 fetches for DRS. I'd ditch an EWit for Meren, who is fantastic. I would probably cut 2 DRS for Abrupt Decay. Even if you go bigger than almost every deck in the format, it takes you some time to get there. I'm also not convinced you're likely to hit Ulamog mana most games. Nic fit goes big, but 10 is still out of reach most of the time. You would have to pop several Vets or drag the game on for a long, long time to do that. You're probably better served with something a little more attainable. If you're set on that, I would swap one or two of your big guys for Primeval Titan, probably a World Breaker and maybe another DRS (leaves one a a GSZ target).
It looks like a good start. I think you're going to run into a lot of the problems (access to colors, very high curve even by nic fit standards) while playtesting, and you should be able to refine it significantly with time. GBC is kind of tough to critique, because it still hasn't been a thing long enough to see what really works and what doesn't.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I know this is not optimal yet, I would just like to hear peoples thoughts on this direction for the deck.
You're really light on colored sources. I would cut a Wastes, a Forest, and two Wastelands for Llanowar Wastes. Mana denial with Explorers is futile, so you're really using Wasteland as a colorless source and way to get rid of problematic utility lands. Having the Llanowar Wastes gives you a much greater chance of hitting your important early plays without cutting colorless mana. I'd also ditch two Swamps for another Bayou and a green fetch of some kind, or two green fetches if you're working under budget concerns. You really only need 6-7 basics to have a commanding mana lead against most legacy decks, so focus on hitting colors quickly. Making the changes I suggested gives you 15 G, 13 B (14 with Phyrexian Tower), and 8 C in your lands. That's not ideal, but it gives you good odds to see G and B early without cutting you off of colorless entirely.
Three Ewits seems like too many, and 4+4 Vets/DRS is also a lot, especially with only 4 fetches for DRS. I'd ditch an EWit for Meren, who is fantastic. I would probably cut 2 DRS for Abrupt Decay. Even if you go bigger than almost every deck in the format, it takes you some time to get there. I'm also not convinced you're likely to hit Ulamog mana most games. Nic fit goes big, but 10 is still out of reach most of the time. You would have to pop several Vets or drag the game on for a long, long time to do that. You're probably better served with something a little more attainable. If you're set on that, I would swap one or two of your big guys for Primeval Titan, probably a World Breaker and maybe another DRS (leaves one a a GSZ target).
It looks like a good start. I think you're going to run into a lot of the problems (access to colors, very high curve even by nic fit standards) while playtesting, and you should be able to refine it significantly with time. GBC is kind of tough to critique, because it still hasn't been a thing long enough to see what really works and what doesn't.
Thanks for the critique, I recognize that GBC isn't common, I've done as much research as I could no the Nic Fit archetype and all of its variants. I'll definitely make room for Meren by either cutting an E-witt or Ulamog. I originally only had three Deathrites but was advised by some local players to go up to the full four. I'll mix up the mana base also per your suggestions.
I'm just waiting to acquire another wasteland or two and will report back how this variant functions.
Good evening, I was looking for a new deck to build and I just felt in love with the birthing pod. The thing is I yet need to aquire dual lands and in the near future I most likely won't. My question now is, is there a way to build some sort of a budget version of this deck, since it already does run a
It's the last one if I'm not mistaken.
TBH I don't really like the base of this version, although it's really budget. I would like to play it with Pods, Zeniths and just the good stuff creatures. Do you guys think this is viable?
Greetings.
It's not really possible to play without duals, they're very important (especially Bayou). Even though the deck does use a high number of basics it simply doesn't work without duals. Upside though, you only need 4 total the fetches are actually the most expensive part of the manabase. Depending on your collection, Jund has the cheapest set of duals but it needs Groves too which bring the price up. Junk is probably the least expensive manabase on average. Even a single Bayou goes a very long way here.
Much of what's posted in that list is viable, but the shocklands aren't. On the Legacy specific boards, mtgthesource there's a very active thread on Nic Fit (it's probably the most active thread on the entire forum). Here's the link, the thread goes back and forth in what it discusses, there's literally 10-15 variations of the deck. The discussion of the past few days has centered around Pod Fit (a topic that comes up every couple months). The previous discussion revolved around something new we were trying called SE Fit (SE standing for Systems Engineering), which was taking a Systems Engineering approach towards making a more balanced version. Most didn't really take to the discussion, but I did find a variant I liked in it. Here's my list http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/se-fit/ basically I try to overload the removal in the format by simply playing a lot of creatures that all need to be removed, eventually something will stick and it will win me the game. With all the card draw/selection it actually rivals and in some cases exceeds the capacity of blue decks to dig for what's required.
Going back to your list though, Pod and Zenith don't really work well together. Pod demands a very high creature count, and most of the best stuff to Pod into is non green while Zenith is more about a moderate creature count with most cards being green.
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3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Bayou
2x Badlands
1x Taiga
2x Swamp
2x Forest
1x Mountain
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures
3x Veteran Explorer
2x Deathrite Shaman
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Eternal Witness
2x Huntmaster of the Fells
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
1x Thragtusk
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1x Broodmate Dragon
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Punishing Fire
3x Liliana of the Veil
3x Pernicious Deed
Variance
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Diabolic Tutor
3x Thoughtseize
2x Duress
3x Pyroblast
1x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Golgari Charm
2x Blood Moon
1x Krosan Grip
I don´t get some Cards some card choices.
Tasigur seems to be a NoGo in Nic fit. Especially with the Grove + PFire engine. You don´t want to delve such cards like Therapy or Pfire away to cast a 4/5 Vanilla ;).
Plus he is not Zenithable.
Thrun, the last troll fits a lot better in that spot
And you should cut the Tutor for a Diabolic Intent, another great sac outlet works like a Demonic Tutor.
So my guess would be
- 2 Tasigur
- Diabolic Tutor
+ 1 Thrun, the last troll
+ Diabolic Intent
+ Veteran Explorer/Sensei's Divining Top
Best Regards
Modern:
Heartless Gitrog
Pauper:
Zombies
Delve
Canadian Thresh
I agree with the poster above, Tasigur is not what we want. For all his negatives, I find being a legend is a huge liability. Karakas bounces him and that's rough. [card] Gurmag Angler[/card} seems more reliable than he is--the extra power and lack of being a legend makes him more useful than the ability. When I first started out testing, I was just Black/Green and I tried Grave Titan (along with a set of hymns). Whenever he resolved, I almost always won the game, but I often couldn't find him since he was only run as 2 of. I even tried running Fierce Empath as a 1 of to find with GSZ to find Grave Titan--needless to say, I just realized I want my threats to be green. Thrun alot slightly smaller can't be countered and is pretty much unkillable short of toxic deluge or a sac effect. I am not entirely convinced you need another 4 drop with a pair of huntmasters though. I should also mention since i am junk, I run a pair of stoneforges, so I can find some equipment to make Thrun a bigger threat. Your mileage may vary. Prime Time might be another guy to consider since he can find wolfrun and stronghold for you.
Speaking of non basic lands, have you tried phyrexian tower? It will stress your mana base a bit, but some of the most powerful starts I've had are like, turn 1 Vet, into tower on turn 2 and then having 5 mana to do something amazing with. For me it is often Rhino or GSZ into Rhino. I don't think Huntsmaster is bad turn 2 play.
On that note, the strongest idea in my mind to play Jund because PF/Grove/LoTV was for Slaughter Games. It was amazing against control decks like Miracles or Tez because you can power it out, they can't stop you, and you can not only get perfect information about their deck, but you can rip out their win cons. Against Miracles in particular you can gut an entire avenue of victory--I actually sub out Vets for carpet of flowers in that match up as well. I don't think you need Blood Moons as much because you are already really powerful against fair decks with again PF/Grove/LotV/Deed. You are pretty much their worst nightmare. if you want to diversify your sweepers, you could take Toxic Deludge over a Deed. Just changing one lets you not be so weak against a Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker on deed. It's a change I've been considering myself.
I run more basics than you do, but I often find that a singleton Recurring Nightmare is a beast. I have often looped Rhino+Explorer back and forth getting a massive amount of land to while searching with top for an answer to Ensnaring Bridge. The funny thing is often times, I never find an answer and just "rhino" them to death with his ETB trigger. I'd imagine Hunstmaster+Explorer or Witness/Thrag would be equally amazing. If your games tend to be fast rather than grindy, it might lose some value and with your grove/pt power, it might not be necessary but at least its worth consideration.
If I had to make cuts I'd do this
-1 Diabolic Tutor
-1 Deathrite Shaman (we can search if we really need it)
-2 Taigur
-1 Deed
+1 Toxic Deludge
+1 Veteran Explorer
+1 Recurring Nightmare
+1 Abrupt Decay (This card has just been an all star for me against a number of decks)
+1 Thurn, the Last Troll (or just another top or the suggest above Diabolic Intent)
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Taiga
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Stomping Ground
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Creatures
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wood Elves
2 Eternal Witness
1 Obstinate Baloth
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Broodmate Dragon
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift
4 Burning Wish
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
2 Pyroblast
1 Thoughtseize
1 Massacre
1 Reanimate
1 Slaughter Games
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Land Grant
1 Pyroclasm
1 Volcanic Spray
1 Dreadbore
1 Innocent Blood
1 Scapeshift
1 Hull Breach
1 Dryad Militant
Quick thoughts:
Adding in a second Eternal Witness has been really good for the grindier matches.
I switched Primeval Titan for Broodmate Dragon. Prime Time was just too bad against things like StP and Liliana.
I don't like Dryad Militant in the board at all, but I can't think of a better option against Storm that I can GSZ for early enough to matter.
What do you think?
-Charlie Kelly
I pretty much copied this list and ive been having fun with it. This is my first legacy deck and im really liking the format.
any new developments?
Also is it worth switching red for white? I see a few lists around and im sure stoneforge and teeg are great but is academy rector still worth trying and if so what enchantments ?
I think I'm gonna try out the Melira combo in my BUG configuration. I'm already running Murderous Redcap as a value 4-drop, and Kitchen Finks in the 'board; might as well toss em in, right? As much as I love recurring Thragtusks and turning random value creatures sideways, sometimes you gotta just win, amirite?
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
DUDES 17
3 Vet Explorer
1 DRS
1 Nezumi Shortfang (has been AMAZING in testing)
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Wood Elves
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
3 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Broodmate Dragon
STUFF -N-THINGS 22
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
4 Punishing Fire
1 Sylvan Library(thinking of a second one somewhere)
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Kolaghans Command
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Birthing Pod
3 Green's Sun Zenith
MANAS 22
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run(this may turn into another basic IDK)
1 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Swamp
1 Taiga
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Wooded Foothills
1x Acidic Slime
4x Baleful Strix
1x Bone Shredder
3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Eternal Witness
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Grave Titan
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Shriekmaw
1x Thragtusk
4x Veteran Explorer
3x Forest
1x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Polluted Delta
2x Swamp
3x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Brainstorm
2x Pernicious Deed
2x Recurring Nightmare
1x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Birthing Pod
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Elderscale Wurm
1x Gilded Drake
2x Golgari Charm
1x Notion Thief
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Sadistic Hypnotist
3x Swan Song
3x Thoughtseize
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Lately I've been playing Junk, I just switched from BUG and only have a couple small tournaments under my belt with it now. This is the list I'm using, so far I like it but I wouldn't mind finding a cut for one additional land. 21 worked great with Brainstorm in BUG but I think it's slightly too low here.
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Phyrexian Tower
Creatures 19
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Voice of Resurgence
1 Eternal Witness
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Baneslayer Angel
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Painful Truths
Enchantment 5
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Sylvan Library
1 Recurring Nightmare
Artifact 3
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Engineered Plague
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaddok Teeg
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Choke
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Golgari Charm
1 Rest in Peace
1 Krosan Grip
1 Aven Mindcensor
I used to play BUG Pod and I liked it. The big advantage to BUG in my opinion is that you get Trinket Mage to find a wide variety of artifacts. I found that in BUG you still want to play Tops alongside the Brainstorms. This was my list.
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
Creatures 17
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Baleful Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Trinket Mage
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Notion Thief
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thragtusk
1 Frost Titan
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Hangarback Walker
1 Pithing Needle
2 Birthing Pod
Enchantment 4
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Sylvan Library
Instant 6
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Brainstorm
Sorcery 6
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Force of Will
1 Envelop
2 Riptide Pilferer
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Innocent Blood
As you can see, I tried really hard to leave GSZ as a live spell, the lack of removal was never an issue. The best cards in blue are Trinket Mage, Notion Thief, and Baleful Strix.
What finally made me move away from blue though was the stress on the mana. Once you get past the top tier blue cards, which are mostly splashable you'll find that the second tier Frost Titan, Glen Elendra, Vendilion Clique, Sower of Temptation are all very blue intensive and none of them work with GSZ, then you have Force which mandates you run that second tier in order to have a high concentration of blue cards. In the end what happens is that your GSZ's are weaker and your manabase really suffers because it needs high amounts of blue, green, and black.
When it comes to Nissa (or I suppose this is also true of Wood Elves) you want a 7th basic. 6 for Veteran Explorers and fetches, then 1 for Nissa. Also, give Meren of Clan Nel Toth a try, the card is absolutely incredible.
Some first observations :
- your Phyrexian Tower doesn't help playing blue. If you want to accelerate your first turns, you'd better strengthen your manabase by shutting down awkward mana sources (this includes Dryad Arbor as well) and play Deathrite Shaman x3 and Veteran Explorer x3.
- This way, the Wood Elves / Nissa, Vastwood Seer slot gets a better chance of fetching a forest. Nissa seems like a nice upgrade to the other elf. When she flips, she gets out of range of our own Pernicious Deeds / Engineered Explosives. She has nice synergies with Sensei's Divining Top and Brainstorm as well.
- Meren of Clan Nel Toth has indeed been huge for me, in the grindy MUs. She offers a fair counter-engine against Umezawa's Jitte and is un-be-lie-va-ble in a Birthing Pod shell. You want a third copy of the artifact for sure. This is also why DRS is nice in that kind of shell.
- I'm not sure Force of Will is the only way to go for the SB. Very meta-dependant of course, but a strong anti-combo package of discard spells and 1-mana counterspells can do the job. Mindbreak Trap works for Storm, Flusterstorm, Swan Song, Thoughtseize, all these look solid to me.
GWU Eldrazi
BRG Living End
WBG JunkFit
GWU Eldrazi
BRG Living End
WBG JunkFit
Would you mind sending it to me as well? And is there any reason discussion isn't really continuing here? This is my main choice in legacy, but I hate not having an easy place to go to talk about it.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/nicfit-eldrazi-1/
I know this is not optimal yet, I would just like to hear peoples thoughts on this direction for the deck.
You're really light on colored sources. I would cut a Wastes, a Forest, and two Wastelands for Llanowar Wastes. Mana denial with Explorers is futile, so you're really using Wasteland as a colorless source and way to get rid of problematic utility lands. Having the Llanowar Wastes gives you a much greater chance of hitting your important early plays without cutting colorless mana. I'd also ditch two Swamps for another Bayou and a green fetch of some kind, or two green fetches if you're working under budget concerns. You really only need 6-7 basics to have a commanding mana lead against most legacy decks, so focus on hitting colors quickly. Making the changes I suggested gives you 15 G, 13 B (14 with Phyrexian Tower), and 8 C in your lands. That's not ideal, but it gives you good odds to see G and B early without cutting you off of colorless entirely.
Three Ewits seems like too many, and 4+4 Vets/DRS is also a lot, especially with only 4 fetches for DRS. I'd ditch an EWit for Meren, who is fantastic. I would probably cut 2 DRS for Abrupt Decay. Even if you go bigger than almost every deck in the format, it takes you some time to get there. I'm also not convinced you're likely to hit Ulamog mana most games. Nic fit goes big, but 10 is still out of reach most of the time. You would have to pop several Vets or drag the game on for a long, long time to do that. You're probably better served with something a little more attainable. If you're set on that, I would swap one or two of your big guys for Primeval Titan, probably a World Breaker and maybe another DRS (leaves one a a GSZ target).
It looks like a good start. I think you're going to run into a lot of the problems (access to colors, very high curve even by nic fit standards) while playtesting, and you should be able to refine it significantly with time. GBC is kind of tough to critique, because it still hasn't been a thing long enough to see what really works and what doesn't.
Thanks for the critique, I recognize that GBC isn't common, I've done as much research as I could no the Nic Fit archetype and all of its variants. I'll definitely make room for Meren by either cutting an E-witt or Ulamog. I originally only had three Deathrites but was advised by some local players to go up to the full four. I'll mix up the mana base also per your suggestions.
I'm just waiting to acquire another wasteland or two and will report back how this variant functions.
It's not really possible to play without duals, they're very important (especially Bayou). Even though the deck does use a high number of basics it simply doesn't work without duals. Upside though, you only need 4 total the fetches are actually the most expensive part of the manabase. Depending on your collection, Jund has the cheapest set of duals but it needs Groves too which bring the price up. Junk is probably the least expensive manabase on average. Even a single Bayou goes a very long way here.
Much of what's posted in that list is viable, but the shocklands aren't. On the Legacy specific boards, mtgthesource there's a very active thread on Nic Fit (it's probably the most active thread on the entire forum). Here's the link, the thread goes back and forth in what it discusses, there's literally 10-15 variations of the deck. The discussion of the past few days has centered around Pod Fit (a topic that comes up every couple months). The previous discussion revolved around something new we were trying called SE Fit (SE standing for Systems Engineering), which was taking a Systems Engineering approach towards making a more balanced version. Most didn't really take to the discussion, but I did find a variant I liked in it. Here's my list http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/se-fit/ basically I try to overload the removal in the format by simply playing a lot of creatures that all need to be removed, eventually something will stick and it will win me the game. With all the card draw/selection it actually rivals and in some cases exceeds the capacity of blue decks to dig for what's required.
Going back to your list though, Pod and Zenith don't really work well together. Pod demands a very high creature count, and most of the best stuff to Pod into is non green while Zenith is more about a moderate creature count with most cards being green.