MTG Salvation

There's Zuran Orb as part of a board, or running some basics. Not a lot, but a basic forest can go a long way. If you have that out, it's unlikely a PoP is going to impact you for more than 6 damage on its lonesome. Other than that, nuking the lands of Zoo with recurring Wastelands remains one of the better ways to deal with them. They run maybe 21 lands at most, 7 fetches, and maybe Horizon Canopys. Some folks will also eschew basics, so you can just prevent them from sitting on more than 1 mana for the entire game.

Given that people are already seriously discussing cutting Burning Wish and some recently succesful versions of the deck have done without it, running both cards is just not feasible. An effective wish board already cuts hugely into effective SB spots, and wishes can be replaced half the time just by sticking a Seismic Assault, Engineered Explosives, or resolving a Terminate or Maelstrom Pulse.

I saw a GWR version that dropped Confidant in favor of Knight of the Reliquary and an Armageddon in the sideboard. I've got access to both options, and with the new "prot-white" land, Knight is looking better by the day. Is it too much to ask for, running Crusher, goyf, AND Knight?

I saw a guy at the last Legacy running a more control? i guess.. loam variant. Im not sure if its an established deck, but it only ran KotR and Crusher as creatures, and focused much more on enchantments and sorcery to win. Im not sure how he finished, but he was 2-0 when I was talking to him. Any viability in going more spell based? I know 'Aggro' Loam, but he was slinging Path to Exile and edicts to make way for his creatures, and backing it up with some serious spells [DD and Seismic to be specific]. Should this even be considered? I've not tested enough to know if its viable, or just luck. Mostly i was surprised at the Ghostly Prison in the sideboard. Apparently they are 'amazing' against dredge and goblins and the like. I just assumed Chalice was enough but, again, i'll concede any point to people with more experience.

On a related note. I love BOB's ability to draw and power out sheer efficiency in this deck [while beating for 2!], but i've found that black's biggest bonus has been the sideboard or the control-ey stuff you can do. Raven's Crime and such in the board/wish/whatever. That being said, if you run enough cycle-lands, can you make up for the lack of Black with white's added bonuses? [I currently have a BWG rock-ey deck and have been drawn to loam's efficiency and speed]. Access to things like Teeg and Ethersworn Canonist can help against the combo decks, and white gives you KotR. Has there been a good argument for/against black VS white? To me, it boils down to BoB VS qasali pridemage and Knight. Sideboard options aside, do i want to disrupt, or react? Any conversation on the topic would be awesome, as i am finishing my decklist..

If i'm just not experienced enough with the deck to realize white is a terrible fail, please let me know. I just can't seem to shake the feeling that Pridemage and Knight are too awesome in this deck to keep out. But 4 color decks are too risky, and both red Seismic assault and green life from the loam are essential, leaving only black to get the axe.

You really cant beat black in the deck. Running Dark Confidant main and having Leyline of the Void side is very strong. Maelstrom Pulse completes the reasons for black for me. Its just so good. Terminate too if your in a creature heavy meta.


Thats what I have been running so far. The Worm Harvest is not that great. I find myself only fetching for it when I have the game sealed already. Im just not sure if im completely happy with the sideboard list just yet for a meta that I dont know what to expect. Would love thoughts/suggestions.

Perish

I just played about 20 games, 10 with W, 10 with B. Black is amazing, and most of the reason behind that is Perish. [I'm also a fan of pulse and the others].

I played 3 Decks [Elves, CounterTop, and Survival of the Fittest] where Natural-Order Progenitus combo came at me. I hate being in a no-win situation. I know if you have 'enough' guys you can fight back but.. to be realistic, i like having a way out.

I've decided personally black is amazing and i'd suggest 1x Perish and 1x SmallPox to go into the deck. [Stupid Progenitus / Dark Depths ]

Hopefully things'll go better with more testing.

Personally I prefer reverent silence and Pulverize in my wish board over shattering spree and hull breach.

Pulverize vs. Anfinity downright bombs them into the stone age while drastically boosting countryside. the same can be said for stacks if they have a lot of stuff out but uping the count of maelstrom and boarding krosan grips is essential there.

reverent silence, its rare but some people do have the guts to play Enchantress, practically bombed to the stone age as well. Only issue would be if they get a replenish to make your smile go away.


Least these are my preferences to the SB

Quote from TheRogue

Personally I prefer reverent silence and Pulverize in my wish board over shattering spree and hull breach.

Pulverize vs. Anfinity downright bombs them into the stone age while drastically boosting countryside. the same can be said for stacks if they have a lot of stuff out but uping the count of maelstrom and boarding krosan grips is essential there.

reverent silence, its rare but some people do have the guts to play Enchantress, practically bombed to the stone age as well. Only issue would be if they get a replenish to make your smile go away.


Least these are my preferences to the SB

Great sideboard cards no doubt. Appreciate the suggestions. I have been toying around with Nostalgic Dreams. I have had some really nice interactions with that card. It makes a hand full of nothing important turn into a hand of Lands to bomb with seismic assault or can recur important past wish targets if you fail to see and Eternal Witness.

My one concern with Pulverize would be that it blows up your own artifacts as well. You loose your Chalice and Moxs. I understand that against Affinity that wont matter as to them loosing their entire board but I worry that Affinity is the only deck where you will be Wishing for Pulverize. As for Reverent Silence That is an awesome one for sure. Other than Leyline of the Void (which is SB for GY hate) I can wish for this guy and swing a locked Enchantress game in my favor and lets face it. Probably swing for the win on the same turn unless the game had gone on too long... None the less almost sealing a win for you either way.

Side note I also like Perish. Seems like a solid choice after your opponent drops Prog on you. Keep the suggestions coming they are giving me some great ideas.

Hi, I'm new to this format so I'm not entirely in the know about certain things. So I have two questions, but I do love this deck.

1. How much do you usually find yourself casting Engineered Explosives for?

2. What match ups do you usually play Leyline of the Void in?

quick question, should sensei's divining top see play in this deck?

with the combination of fetches, dark confidant, and countryside crusher i think it would be quite helpful at both smoothing out the draws and taking less damage from confidant on average per game

also it could maximize growth of countryside crusher by arranging so you mill more lands

another small benefit is that it could also put itself on top of the deck if you don't want your opponent to have knowledge of a card and play around it when you need to reveal for a dark confidant or even, in a pinch, a countryside crusher


please tell me what you think because i see some list with and some without at my local and i wanted to know which was better

Quote from this_is_my_username

quick question, should sensei's divining top see play in this deck?

with the combination of fetches, dark confidant, and countryside crusher i think it would be quite helpful at both smoothing out the draws and taking less damage from confidant on average per game

top is a good card, no doubt. but it's not for every deck, and it's really not needed here. what are you going to take out, in order to fit them? don't forget you can stack bob and crusher triggers which ever way you want to maximize percentages of hitting the cards you need/want.

just a suggestions similar to top is miri's guile. its not top and can't emergency draw for loam dredge. But it does the rearranging on upkeep for free so you dont risk mana shortage encase your top 3 reveal anything you probably want to play.


the final note is both are over looked if your running the chalice version of the deck. If running that version I would recommend experimenting with scroll rack as it doesn't conflict with the whole 1 casting cost thing in the chalice build. Plus late game Its got good potential for setting up the following turn to give crusher a boost.

You should always play chalice in aggro loam. Which is why top and a ton of one drops are bad, because you always chalice for 1. But anyways IMO you should always splash black with this deck. Knight is weak because its basically terravore w/o trample and a land grabbing ability that is very slow. The white splash is just not that good compared to black where you get bob, maelstrom pulse, and SB options like LEYLINE OF THE VOID and co.

the black discard version has T8ed or so in the past but it comes down to keeping a creature on the field at the end of the day. it ups the game against combo going first and making them discard something crucial.

but all to often other decks will top deck the crucial creature kill. but if they done, there gunna have a rough day.

what this deck really needs is strip mine, at the same time armageddon versions can be white greens + other colors best friend. (just randomly throwing that out there!)



Just putting this out there I am pioneering the blue splash version of this deck. Its got its ups and downs.

I have been toying with a ton of various builds and right now I am happiest with a 4 color version. I run RGwb. Black for Dark Confidant main and Leyline of the Viod sideboard. White for Knight of the Reliquary main. I find that Knight is actualy much better than Terravore in almost all cases simply because all Terravore can do is smash in for damage while on the flip side Knight Pumps himself and color fixes you all at the same time OR gets you a crucial wasteland when needed or even prehaps trades out a forest for your Volrath's Stronghold to get back your Goyfs/Crushers. I find that his utility is far under rated.

Also if you want to you can find endless tricks to play with the Knight. Adding 1 of any land with combat tricks can really surprise your opponent. Bojuka Bog, Sejiri Steppe, Volrath's Stronghold, Wasteland, and many more options for surprising your opponent. I also need to point out that he doesn't die to Relic of Progenitus Like Terravore does. If you are worried about the trample then simply run Skarrg, the Rage Pits.

Almost forgot, running Chalice is pretty much your best option in almost any matchup. Chalice for 1 slows down or stops a lot of decks right in their tracks. It is for this reason that you should be very careful when building the main board and not put in 1cc cards as you never want your own chalice to hurt you too. If you think there is an amazing card that you wish to have in the deck that is 1cc then run it as a sideboard card and use it when you board out your chalices (though to be honest dredge is one of the only decks I board out chalice right now as it hurt almost every other deck very much)

PS: I have a very anti dredge and reanimator sideboard. So taking out chalice against Dredge and putting in 4 Leyline 2 firespout and 3 Gaddock Teeg really hurts their 2nd and 3rd games as they likely wont have a graveyard nor will they be able to cast Dread Returns and the token army dies very quickly to Firespout. I would like to also point out that I have 2 EE and 2 Maelstrom Pulse main so Dredge is not a difficult matchup post board. I pretty much Seismic Assault them to death as it is the easiest win condition.

what about running Oran-rief, the vastwood as knight utility, it can give us that +1/+1 edge that bant decks get.

Quote from TheRogue

what about running Oran-rief, the vastwood as knight utility, it can give us that +1/+1 edge that bant decks get.

While no land is out fo the question as a 1 of when playing Knight of the Reliquary, I would lean towards not running it for 3 main reasons. 1) It only pumps 2 of the 4 primary creatures in the deck and 2) It comes into play tapped so even if you fetch for it with Knight, you have to wait a turn to use its pump ability and that brings me to point 3) If you use it to pump it isn't making mana for you. I feel that it is too slow for this style deck.

Nantuko Cultivator Any thoughts?

Quote from Stupidcounterspell

Nantuko Cultivator Any thoughts?

It has no extra abilities beyond the comes into play ability which requires you to have a grip full of lands and it costs 4 mana. The card draw would be nice but without trample or any other abilities the body seems a bit weak once he is on the field. What I really don't like is that to be good he requires an activation whereas your other options all just get bonuses for being in this deck. I would much rather go with countryside crusher, Knight of the Reliquary, Tarmogoyf, or Terravore.

just sort of shooting this out there but one card that has been on my mind is cataclysm in the white splash version of the deck. i would put it in the DD slot at first thought.

the down side is they get to keep 1 creature and 1 land and so on. it costs 4.

the upside is we can preserve our mana better with out 1 artifact of mox diamond, so good chance to loam after it resolves. plus at most I average 1-2 creatures doing most of the work any how with DD so not much change there. the good upside is we don't have to discard for its killing effects, unlike DD.

this seems like a card that will definitely pump crusher, knight, terravore and goyf, while crippling the opponent to some degree, but just not entirely sure on it.

Is this deck still competitive with all of the land lists that have been running around since the 5k? I've tested it a bit and just had a lot of trouble beating fish, belcher, ichorid, and the other decks in our legacy gauntlet, and it seems like it's just a dog to the land list.

Its still competitive but fish has never been a easy match up for me either, same for Canadian threshold at times.

But belcher always has a chance of knocking people out of the park with no chance of stoping it, if they go first. As i've been told best defense might be mindbreak trap.