What color would you drop for white? Four colors really is stretching it too far in a format dominated by wasteland, even if we're the kind of deck that likes to abuse it. This deck wins off of the combined power of synergy and consistency. Adding a color to play a non-synergistic sub-plan disrupts both of those strengths.
Which is why I stated that I prefer the straight Jund manabase. You do bring up a valid point regarding the anti-synergy of Stoneforge Mystic, and after further review, I totally agree. When building my list from the ground up, I very quickly realized that this list is very tight on space. Here is what I'm currently running. Raven's Crime is in the maindeck in an attempt to provide versatile and synergistic power against Combo and Control decks.
Edit: Another thing, do you guys feel as though the Wishboard is essential to the deck's success? I can see a valid argument for using those four extra slots for more raw power over the versatility.
wish board can make the deck cruise through less common match ups like enchantress, affinity, stax, elves and so on by wishing for the 1 sorcery that completely wipes there board. so i find it better for those reasons than no to have it and have not outs for those match up game 1.
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I'm fairly sure he just meant to do 4 Tarmogoyf and 4 Countryside Crusher
Truth.
After some more testing, I'm adoring the wishboard. I'm just having some trouble in designing the optimal mix of card choices. And forgive my ignorance, but what is Engineered Explosives good against?
its good for mostly knocking off annoying stuff. maybe a counterbalance, key merfolk, key or problematic enchantments, definitely good for knocking off a series of tokens.
in the current meta it seems very situational i'd almost rather run pernicious deed instead of explosives in the current meta. (and with the punishing fire versions of the deck.)
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I do like Engineered Explosives after a bit of testing. The maindeck Sylvan Library is awesome, but I'm not liking Worm Harvest in the maindeck too much. I'm thinking another Sylvan Library or Maelstrom Pulse would probably be better. And how do you guys feel about Devastating Dreams?
devastating dreams pretty much shuts a lot of strategies/decks down, its not so good against control as they will most likely counter it. If it does get countered your out what ever you discarded at random which leaves you essentially wide open/vulnerable.
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devastating dreams pretty much shuts a lot of strategies/decks down, its not so good against control as they will most likely counter it. If it does get countered your out what ever you discarded at random which leaves you essentially wide open/vulnerable.
The 2nd Sylvan Library has been beautiful. It irons out the strategy so well, especially in tandem with Countryside Crusher and Dark Confidant.
Yeah...the basic swamp has never ever been worth it. You cast dark confidant off of moxen/badlands/bayou and that is all sans your ravens crimes' in the MD and SB and worm harvest. Along with a few other wish targets.
I've never been a fan of worm harvest. I think the card falls strictly under winmore; it's only good against control decks, and against control decks we have the better engine in loam getting back cycling lands.
Sylvan library is sweet. Can draw you extra cards, can allow you to sometimes dredge a lot with multiple loams, and overall is basically sensei's top in here. Surprised it hasn't seen much play prior to this year that much.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Also, the Basic Forest over the swamp is SUPER important since you run Reverent Silence in your board. If you get Blood Moon'd, and then you're hardcasting Silence. While if you have the Basic Forest, you let them gain 6 life, blow it all up, and then you Seismic them to death.
Definitely going with the Mountain over the Swamp. Two quick questions:
1. Is running 26 Lands and 4 Moxen in the deck incorrect?
2. If I ran 31 Land, do you guys think a second Sylvan Library or a third Maelstrom Pulse would be better. Leaning towards Sylvan Library, but I'd really love a third Pulse.
I hope by "Mountain", you mean "Forest", sir. Haha.
26 lands and 4 Moxen is fine, honestly. You could theoretically go down to 25 lands, and still be fine, but since you are running Seismic Assault, 26-28 is the best number.
Also, what would you take out to run 5 more lands? You already have 30 Mana Sources, which isn't bad, but I don't know why you'd go up to more than 50% sources. At that point, you're basically better off getting 4 Mazes and a Tabernacle and playing Lands.
I know some decklists in the past have used Skarrg, the Rage Pits to give creatures +1/+1 and trample, but with the printing of Kessig Wolf Run I was curious if this beconsidered better than skarrg since you are given the option of adding +x/+0 instead of just +1/+1.
given the size countryside, and knight of the reliquary can reach at times the additional boost to power from skarrg sometimes wasn't as necessity as the trample was. so the option of going higher than 1 additional power offered by kessig makes me wonder if kessig might be better than skarrg or is skarrg alone just enough and not real need to go further than what it offers for the purposes of running it?
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Have people been playing the deck with GSZ? the card is mad in there as it gives you more t1 accel. While it is worse than the mox it helps those moxless hands.
I would recommend it to anyone. Also it makes it possible to run a only a singleton terravore and perhaps shave it down to 2 tarmos and it gives you better sideboard options.
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"Should have draw a card on it, still only playable in casual or limited. I mean it loses to liquify"
Said about Yawgmoth’s Will
i had shoved them in my modern deck recently but due to the bannings there probably going to end up in here.
out of curiosity does dungrove elder have any place in this deck?
a lot of my duals are the forest ones for terravores 2 green cost. so far i count only 8 actual forests in my land base however that is not including fetch lands, so getting forests out is not a problem through the fetches. so in theory counting fetches its actually 14 forests in the deck.
dungrove doesn't look like a 4 of card in the deck but maybe a 1 or 2 of later game cause if you go with a mox opener he may not grow as quickly as he would in other decks that aim for forest after forest land dropping since we may go for other non forest non basics in this deck. but he seems like he could be quite big in the ladder averaging 3/3 to 5/5 pending situation.
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Sorry if you've already discussed this, but how good is Buried Ruin in this deck? It can recur Engineered Explosives and retrieve Chalice of the Void without splashing blue, but it's a bit of a price to get your artifacts...
I have always been interested in Aggro Loam, and might have some extra money to build the darn thing. I am not a fan of the white splash in this deck, and would be interested in building the traditional Red/Black/Green build. Does anyone have an updated list for these colors?
at first glance i would try it out for sure, unlike other red draw spells it doesn't have the random clause in its discard portion.
i think what would concern others who play the deck is it doesn't feel like card draw in the same sense that cycle lands already function.
i think there is a "spacing issue" between cycle lands and if you added faith less looting. you'd have to dredge up lands to then make this have any draw gain. only advantage you walk away with in that situation is you spent less mana to draw just as much cards as you would have with cycle lands.
plus it is a sorcery thats sort of an issue, where as cycling is instant speed and can save life from the loam in event of a graveyard wipe.
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Which is why I stated that I prefer the straight Jund manabase. You do bring up a valid point regarding the anti-synergy of Stoneforge Mystic, and after further review, I totally agree. When building my list from the ground up, I very quickly realized that this list is very tight on space. Here is what I'm currently running. Raven's Crime is in the maindeck in an attempt to provide versatile and synergistic power against Combo and Control decks.
4 Countryside Crusher
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
Casts [13]
4 Burning Wish
2 Devastating Dreams
3 Life from the Loam
3 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Raven's Crime
Artifacts/Enchantments [9]
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
3 Seismic Assault
Lands [26]
2 Badlands
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
3 Forgotten Cave
1 Mountain
3 Taiga
3 Trainquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Devastating Dreams
3 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Life from the Loam
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Pulverize
1 Raven's Crime
1 Reverent Silence
1 Worm Harvest
Edit: Another thing, do you guys feel as though the Wishboard is essential to the deck's success? I can see a valid argument for using those four extra slots for more raw power over the versatility.
wish board can make the deck cruise through less common match ups like enchantress, affinity, stax, elves and so on by wishing for the 1 sorcery that completely wipes there board. so i find it better for those reasons than no to have it and have not outs for those match up game 1.
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Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
Truth.
After some more testing, I'm adoring the wishboard. I'm just having some trouble in designing the optimal mix of card choices. And forgive my ignorance, but what is Engineered Explosives good against?
in the current meta it seems very situational i'd almost rather run pernicious deed instead of explosives in the current meta. (and with the punishing fire versions of the deck.)
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4 Countryside Crusher
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
Casts [12]
3 Burning Wish
2 Devastating Dreams
3 Life from the Loam
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Raven's Crime
1 Worm Harvest
Artifacts/Enchantments [9]
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
2 Seismic Assault
1 Sylvan Library
2 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
4 Forgotten Cave
1 Swamp
3 Taiga
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Devastating Dreams
2 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pulverize
1 Raven's Crime
1 Regrowth
1 Reverent Silence
1 Worm Harvest
I do like Engineered Explosives after a bit of testing. The maindeck Sylvan Library is awesome, but I'm not liking Worm Harvest in the maindeck too much. I'm thinking another Sylvan Library or Maelstrom Pulse would probably be better. And how do you guys feel about Devastating Dreams?
devastating dreams pretty much shuts a lot of strategies/decks down, its not so good against control as they will most likely counter it. If it does get countered your out what ever you discarded at random which leaves you essentially wide open/vulnerable.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
The 2nd Sylvan Library has been beautiful. It irons out the strategy so well, especially in tandem with Countryside Crusher and Dark Confidant.
Aggro Loam- It's what I fed your mother for dinner.
GRB
I've never been a fan of worm harvest. I think the card falls strictly under winmore; it's only good against control decks, and against control decks we have the better engine in loam getting back cycling lands.
Sylvan library is sweet. Can draw you extra cards, can allow you to sometimes dredge a lot with multiple loams, and overall is basically sensei's top in here. Surprised it hasn't seen much play prior to this year that much.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Also, the Basic Forest over the swamp is SUPER important since you run Reverent Silence in your board. If you get Blood Moon'd, and then you're hardcasting Silence. While if you have the Basic Forest, you let them gain 6 life, blow it all up, and then you Seismic them to death.
Just my take on it.
Aggro Loam- It's what I fed your mother for dinner.
GRB
1. Is running 26 Lands and 4 Moxen in the deck incorrect?
2. If I ran 31 Land, do you guys think a second Sylvan Library or a third Maelstrom Pulse would be better. Leaning towards Sylvan Library, but I'd really love a third Pulse.
26 lands and 4 Moxen is fine, honestly. You could theoretically go down to 25 lands, and still be fine, but since you are running Seismic Assault, 26-28 is the best number.
Also, what would you take out to run 5 more lands? You already have 30 Mana Sources, which isn't bad, but I don't know why you'd go up to more than 50% sources. At that point, you're basically better off getting 4 Mazes and a Tabernacle and playing Lands.
Mental Misstep did just get banned afterall.
Aggro Loam- It's what I fed your mother for dinner.
GRB
given the size countryside, and knight of the reliquary can reach at times the additional boost to power from skarrg sometimes wasn't as necessity as the trample was. so the option of going higher than 1 additional power offered by kessig makes me wonder if kessig might be better than skarrg or is skarrg alone just enough and not real need to go further than what it offers for the purposes of running it?
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
I would recommend it to anyone. Also it makes it possible to run a only a singleton terravore and perhaps shave it down to 2 tarmos and it gives you better sideboard options.
Said about Yawgmoth’s Will
Credits to Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the truly miraculous sig.
GURRUG Delver
RGoblins
RUGPunishing Balance
Modern:
UR Izzet Tron
out of curiosity does dungrove elder have any place in this deck?
a lot of my duals are the forest ones for terravores 2 green cost. so far i count only 8 actual forests in my land base however that is not including fetch lands, so getting forests out is not a problem through the fetches. so in theory counting fetches its actually 14 forests in the deck.
dungrove doesn't look like a 4 of card in the deck but maybe a 1 or 2 of later game cause if you go with a mox opener he may not grow as quickly as he would in other decks that aim for forest after forest land dropping since we may go for other non forest non basics in this deck. but he seems like he could be quite big in the ladder averaging 3/3 to 5/5 pending situation.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Deck Name: Aggro Loam
Creatures [13]
2 Terravore
4 Countryside Crusher
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tarmogoyf
Sorceries [10]
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Life from the Loam
3 Burning Wish
2 Devastating Dreams
Enchantments [2]
2 Seismic Assault
Artifacts [8]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
Lands [27]
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Mountain
3 Taiga
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Forgotten Cave
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
SB:
1 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Anarchy
1 Tsunami
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Chainer’s Edict
1 Life from the Loam
1 Hull Breach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
i think what would concern others who play the deck is it doesn't feel like card draw in the same sense that cycle lands already function.
i think there is a "spacing issue" between cycle lands and if you added faith less looting. you'd have to dredge up lands to then make this have any draw gain. only advantage you walk away with in that situation is you spent less mana to draw just as much cards as you would have with cycle lands.
plus it is a sorcery thats sort of an issue, where as cycling is instant speed and can save life from the loam in event of a graveyard wipe.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!