Welcome to the Aggro Loam Thread. (Cabal_chan said that I should try starting an Aggro Loam thread and here it is, I do hope everyone find this helpful and a good place to start discussion)
The Basis idea of the deck:
Aggro Loam is, as it sounds, a deck with a Life from the Loam engine with an Aggro
twist. It wants to play quickly while disrupting the opponents lands and/or
creature base to slow their speed enough to come in for the swift win.
The "Bones" of the deck:
Life from the Loam - No question about it, this is the engine through which this
deck does most of its tricks.
Seismic Assault - A very powerful enchantment when backed with Loam. Allowing near
infinite "shocks" to your opponents life total or to their creature threats.
Countryside Crusher - One of the main beaters. Not only does he allow for you to
swing hard but with a deck that runs almost half of its cards as lands he can help
you thin out your deck and fill your graveyard with plenty of Loam targets.
Dark Confidant - Good old Bob. Allows for some extra draw power and with this deck
being mostly lands and 0 cost or x cost spells he doesn't hurt your very often. If
he does hurt you its never for much more than for 2 or 3 but ANY cards you get
extra in this deck spell defeat for your opponents.
Tarmogoyf- What hasn't been said about this creature? Hes a beater. And in a deck
where you dredge yourself he can get really big really fast.
Terravore - Great card here, After pitching plenty of lands to your yard with
Seismic Assault, this guy only gets larger and his trampling feet will leave marks
on your opponents pretty quickly.
Burning Wish - Not all Aggro Loams decks run this card but enough of them do to
make it notable. It grabs your Loam from the RFG as well as a whole "Wish list"
of some of magics best sorcerys.
Devastating Dreams - It can win games. Because of Mox Diamond or even Loam itself,
This card can wipe the field of annoying weenies and slow your opponents way way
down on mana.
Mox Diamond- It makes Countryside Crusher bigger, Terravore bigger, Helps get
Loam targets, and doesn't die from Devastating Dreams.
Engineered Explosives - This little bottle of tricks is a slower Pernicious Deed
but for a good reason, It wont blow up your Chalice of the Void or you Mox
Diamonds.
Chalice of the Void - Near the entire format runs 1cc cards, Swords, hand haters,
Relic of Progenitous, SOOO many blue cards, and a slew of Elves, Zoo creatures,
and Goblins, not to mention the slightly newer favorites to tribal, Faeries and
Merfolk, Vial and countless other amazing 1cc cards get hosed with this simple
artifact. Playing this on turn 0-2 can really set back a lot of decks.
Volrath's Stronghold - Need a beater back from the yard to say hi? This is how its
done.
Tranquil Thicket or Forgotten Cave - Cycle lands to give you some Loam
tricks, Cycling one of these and dredging loam, and using that very loam to get
the cycler back just lets this deck grab easy acceleration when needed.
Wasteland - This card lets you slow if not stop your opponents from getting all of
the colors of mana they need to win the game, if nothing else when you use this
with a Countryside Crusher out he gets +1/+1, Terravore +2/+2 and sets your opponent back a bit.
Skarrg, the Rage Pits – Allows your Goyfs and Crushers to swing and not get chump blocked.
Maelstrom Pulse – Wish target. If you ever find yourself in a lock where you need something dead and it has a little brother with it, this card will punish your opponent for redundancy.
Shattering Spree – Wish target. Replicate gets around Chalice and its practically un-counterable. Playing this can spell defeat for affinity decks.
Hull Breach – Wish target. Use this when Shattering Spree is not enough or out of commission. There will be many times where you not only need an artifact to say good bye but there is an enchantment that needs to eat it as well.
Worm Harvest - Wish target. A fun card that can either spell defeat for your opponent or create enough blockers to last the rest of the game due to retrace.
Krosan Grip – Split second spells defeat for counter-top decks.
Firespout – Wish target. Resets the board vs most other aggro decks.
Defense Grid – Huge helper when faced up against control and even some other decks.
Thorn of Amethyst – Really hurts other decks, slows them down, makes them more mana dependant, and makes a lot of combo decks stall out.
Chainer's Edict – Wisher Target. One of the few cards out there that can kill almost anything. Against reanimator or CT Prog this can become your favorite card.
This deck splashes white for a wish target similarly to the one listed above.
I think this is a nice list and shows how diverse the deck can be when forming a SB vs your local meta with cards like Morningtide and Pulverize.
This Deck was sent to me by popeye79
Match-ups:A work in progress (This is where i need the most input, what do you stomp
and where do you have the least luck)
For now at least most will agree, Combo is hard to compete against, at times it
just feels like they are too fast. With a god hand that can change of course but
because of no counter and combo needing a lot less lands than most other decks and
usually no creatures, quite a few of the cards in the main deck are just not well
matched for a speedy combo.
As for the easy match-ups, a lot of people agree, anything that needs land tricks or
decks that try to over run you like dredge, zoo, goblins, or elves, have a hard
time on game 1 vs this deck. Land and field hate let the deck swing clear with the
fatties to seal a win.
The so-so match-up turn out to be countertop decks, things with a lot of counters,
which countertop doesn't hit alot of the cards in the deck (seismic a 3cc,
countryside, the fact that loam dredges back, and chalice shutting down 1cc) it
evens out quite a bit here, games against these will usually go 3 games to decide a
winner.
Credits: So far:
Deadskinmask
Popeye79
(This is where anyone who helped me to make the primer or make edits to the post will get mentioned for their efforts)
I need your help to make this primer better! PM me with any tips, corrections, or lists you might have!
Discussion time!
Here are a few topics that people who want to play this deck might want to think about and talk about, Choose a question that you think needs talking about and run with it, If you have your own questions please feel free to stray from my list as all discussions can lead to good insights about a deck.
Q: Dark Confidant and Countryside Crusher, Do you need both? When both of these are out together they both trigger their effects and how you put them on the stack can really hurt one or the other. Therefore some opt to not run the crusher or to not run Bob. Alternately, some choose to run less than 4 each so they can get both in the deck and hope to run into having both out less often. Which do you all like and why?
Q: Burning Wish allows for the deck to run a huge sideboard that should have 1 answer to almost any problem. So whats the Problem? Having a 2cc card at Sorcery speed is a huge target for control decks that would love to do nothing more than to just counter every wish you ever play and CT decks have little trouble locking you out of your 2cc cards so that Chalice for x=1 x=1, goyf, bob, loam, and wish are all out of the runnings. For this very reason, heavy CT meta players will choose to abandon the Wish and go for more main deck threats. Good idea?
Q: What colors do you run other than RG? Black is the most common for Bob and SB tricks, but because a few lists run White this opens the question, should blue ever be considered? perhaps a 4 color version using RGBW, Which colors do you like to run and why not the others? person prefrence, meta choice, bad draws, ect?
Q: Terravore There are lists with 0-3 of these fatties in them. Has anyone found a reason to run alot or few of these?
Q: Eternal Witness Several lists run 1 of these main board including my own. It has a lot of uses but is it really worth playing at x1? Should this creature be run at all? Discuss why you should or shouldn't run this common 1 of.
Q: Match-ups: What do you love to play against and why? What crushes you? What do you laugh at when you crush them? Explain.
Edit: Added in tons of Sideboard material for people to talk about.
+=+=+=+=+Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the Sig!!!+=+=+=+=+ Currently Playing:RGBWAggro LoamWBGR ,BU Reanimator UB, RG 2 Land Belcher GR & UGW Pro Bant WGU Author of:http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207749 (Proven Competitive: Aggro Loam Thread)
Thanks Areys for gettin this primer goin. I don't know if I would want to play this deck without burning wish. Have you ever had your Life from the Loam Extirpated? I found that I like running 3 Terravore since it's never really a dead card in my hand. I prefer him over splashing white for Knight of the Reliquary mostly due to the trample ability. I know the Knight gets lands into the yard but he's slow and there are plenty of other ways to do this. As far as the Eternal witness as a 1 of, I don't think it's a bad idea. I run 1-2 in my list, I think I may have forgot to include them in the list I sent you. Also I think that when you use a wasteland it gives Terravore +2/+2 and Crusher +1/+1 since crusher states your graveyard.
You can get around LFtL being extirpated by running one in the sideboard as a burning wish target.
Edit: Didn't see that you actually mentioned burning wish. I am inclined to agree that having a wishboard is generally a solid strategy - though if you don't anticipate heavy GY hate (namely extirpate) then you can manage without it and take a slightly more aggressive route.
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Piloting:
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
In other news, crazy nitwits playing dress-up have also convicted the Hamburglar, the Cookie Crisp Crook, and the Frito Bandito of sundry snack-related thefts.
Seriously, what about this strikes you as remotely worthy of discussion?
As for the Eternal Witness, I personally love the 1 of there. I never play her and feel bad about it. Getting back almost anything in this deck gives you crazy advantage. I have even been able to do fun things like get huge mana advantage by using her on turn 3 pre land drop due to a Mox to grab a land from the yard and not miss the land drop for the turn, or using her to fetch back a well needed bomb like EE. Lets not forget quite a few cards in the SB are 1 of. She lets you grab them from the yard and get more bang for your buck!
As for the Terravore, I am still personally unsure of the right number to play. I find Crusher to be a better beater game 2/3 because of all the GY hate. Game 1 though, i must admit he is a huge threat, Much higher threat over Goyf.
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+=+=+=+=+Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the Sig!!!+=+=+=+=+ Currently Playing:RGBWAggro LoamWBGR ,BU Reanimator UB, RG 2 Land Belcher GR & UGW Pro Bant WGU Author of:http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207749 (Proven Competitive: Aggro Loam Thread)
Q:you're not seeing things the right way there.Personally,unless i'm really short in life, i ALWAYS make crusher trigger resolves first.that way, you are absolutely certain to get an interesting spell(ecxept if you reveal a mox diamond,but heh you don't lose life then :p).This is what allows the deck to win.You know,the name's Aggro loam,and we want games to avoid stalling too much.Wich means the life loss drawback is not worth attention;it will get you the spell that wins you the game.
Q:Yes,wish will be countred.actually thats...the whole point of the card in control matchup. you send a burning wish in the void,they counter it,and then you drop a real threat.
Q: i would love a white splash for Knight of the reliquary,and possibibly qasali pridemage.But i wouldnt like a quadricolor manabase,and i would NEVER play without a lovely playset of dark confidents.plus, maelstrom pulses and leyline of the void are known to be fun.And volrath's too.
Q: Terravore is very sensitive to grave hate. the right number is 0 of them,so that tormod's crypt have no effect on your win conditions.
Q: Nonsense in eternal witness as a 1 of. and well,see above about grave hate. +it's so slooooooow.The game is supposed to be ended quickly.
2cents
Good to see someone with a different point of veiw, however, there were a few things that i didn't agree with.
The whole deck is susceptible to graveyard hate. Loam, Goyf, Terravore or Knight, Eternal, Even Seismic assault to a degree because once they clear your graveyard you will have to rebuild it in order to gain some of the decks power back. With that said, Crusher is awesome and there is no doubt there but to say you always use his ability before the dark confidant is reckless, yes the life is a small price to pay, but with cycling lands and wastelands that you do not always want to go to the graveyard, playing crusher and then hitting confidants ability on non lands could mean you turn a tied game (reguardless if im at 17 life or 7 life) into a loss if you hit a 3cc spell and cant afford it. There is no always in magic for me.
I agree with you on wish being targeted by counters and dropping a threat right after but lets face it. Having 2 threats in your hand is the same thing. The question of "should you play wish" is just that, is there a good reason to not play it? For some, they think there are good reasons to not, and even starcitygames last 10k legacy event was won by a aggro loam deck with no wishes.
Eternal Witness, you give her little credit apparently. She herself is not as slow as one might think. In fact, she can be the opposite. Instead of waiting for you do draw into another x,y, or z. If there is one in the graveyard, She gets it now, Imagine her as a 3cc (green) Burning Wish if you like, that stays in play to block or swing!
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I have to admit, I love the idea of a loam decklist doing well. However, there are a couple of matchups I don't think are really mentioned, though my method of categorizing may be different than yours. I think that decks like Eva Green tend to have a similar method of winning, ie attacking your weaknesses and then swinging thru with a couple of fatties. Eva Green is really weak to burn. Does aggro loam have that same issue? Devasating dreams can wreck their mana base, but then again, only one or two lands is all they need to wreck you most of the time. How about Dragon Stompy, that also attacks your manabase, admittedly with a blood moon effect. You still have ways to kill it, but how do you deal with it? devastating with x=3? It probably isn't that bad since you can still use red mana...I was just curious. Those matchups I feel might be the most difficult.
--welt
edit: forgot about seismic assault. forget what I said about dragon stompy. you're probably going to eat them alive.
Q (1): Terravore There are lists with 0-3 of these fatties in them. Has anyone found a reason to run alot or few of these?
Q (2): Eternal Witness Several lists run 1 of these main board including my own. It has a lot of uses but is it really worth playing at x1? Should this creature be run at all? Discuss why you should or shouldn't run this common 1 of.
First, thanks for the credit. I very much appreciate it when people give credit when credit is due.
as for question 1-
sure he's graveyard dependant. but so is goyf. so is the whole deck. teravore is a major threat, and at 3cmc is less likely to get hit by countertop. also the trample is usualy highly important. many have shyed away from him, but i feel that is a mistake. even Soloran X placed pretty highly day 2 at the chicago GP with a goyfless agro loam (because teravore is a much bigger threat {he played vexing shusher in the goyf spot i believe}).
as for question 2-
i have to believe that this is just a "pet card" for most. honestly, in a deck so tight, with so many great options, why waste this one slot? it's only going to shine in long games (like vs landstill). more often than not, i'd have to agree with ElNino.. too slow. but that's just my opinion i suppose.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Eternal witness is godlike with stronghold....I would rarely miss dredging her and volrath's stronghold into the yard. And she can get back anything you've dredged so if you have 20 cards in the yard chances are there's something amazing in there that will tip the match in your favor. You can also recur witness if she goes back to the GY for more fun and can stop that goyf they have in play from swinging because you could use her to recur a dreams that was countered, or a countered b. wish. Or you can get EE. You can do so much with witness in this deck it's not even funny.
And landstill is probably this deck's best MU. Hands down. They can't deal with your engine and if you're able to get some momentum they lose hardcore.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Ok I have to admit, the only experience I have with aggro loam is playing against it, but I had a card idea. anger. I mean, you can dredge into it, discard it with dreams, and obviously you'll usually have a mountain. You gotta admit, a 12/12 hastey trampling guy is pretty scary. Could it fit in this deck?
I disagree here. Eternal Witness and Volrath's Stronghold is not something that you wait the whole game for BUT when you know that you will be playing the Volrath's Stronghold anyways, in my mind there is no reason to not give Eternal Witness a 1 of spot for better recovery OR better aggro avenues.
If Eternal is in the yard and Volrath's is in play, you can get HER back, if you have Volrath's in the yard and Eternal gets played you get back Volrath's. If both are in the yard and you loam at any point, you get back the Volrath's and get back the witness!
Saying that you want to make a graveyard hate proof aggro loam is just well.... silly. Making a deck that has the best chances of winning game 1 and having a SB/Wish list ready for when your opponent sideboards graveyard hate is the key. Heck look at is this way. If you know some serious graveyard hate is coming your way, side her out! but you cant tell me shes bad in the deck, if the spells list wasn't so tight already i would play 2 of her for sure. (She has won me about as many games as Goyf and/or Crusher!)
+=+=+=+=+Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the Sig!!!+=+=+=+=+ Currently Playing:RGBWAggro LoamWBGR ,BU Reanimator UB, RG 2 Land Belcher GR & UGW Pro Bant WGU Author of:http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207749 (Proven Competitive: Aggro Loam Thread)
ok so i've sleved up a list simalar to those above, and for the life of me i can not beat fish pre board!! Even post board it's rough. My list is as follows
ive considered adding vexing shusher to the main to help with the fish battle, but then my zoo match up gets worse. I really live the burning wish package some people have been running, but the sizemic assult package is too good, and it's tough to add both of them. I'm also not running devistating dreams, and without DD, is mox diamond needed? Granted i know its good, but is cutting it realistic?
ok so i've sleved up a list simalar to those above, and for the life of me i can not beat fish pre board!! Even post board it's rough. My list is as follows
ive considered adding vexing shusher to the main to help with the fish battle, but then my zoo match up gets worse. I really live the burning wish package some people have been running, but the siesmic assault package is too good, and it's tough to add both of them. I'm also not running devastating dreams, and without DD, is mox diamond needed? Granted i know its good, but is cutting it realistic?
This is why people use Mox Diamond with DD and Engineered Explosives instead of Deed. Deed kills yourChalice and most of the time its slower than Engineered Explosives if you are going to try and blow up 2cc stuff. Most people dont Deed for higher in legacy. Also you arent running Burning Wish, against decks with counters, Burning Wish is amazing. Chalice on 1 is hugely important. Vexing Shusher is also fantastic at getting your Crushers and Goyfs to land. Many people run 3 in the SB.
PS: Run Devastating Dreams... Its just too good.
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Is Devastating Dreams justifiable in a thresh heavy meta, 2 mana is an iffy number given then additional cost to dreams. What are people's thoughts on this...
Is Devastating Dreams justifiable in a thresh heavy meta, 2 mana is an iffy number given then additional cost to dreams. What are people's thoughts on this...
It's cost is not that bad, Aggro Loam awlays has cards in hand that may not suit the moment. I do not care how tight your list is, Once you have Chalice for 1, Unless you expect a lot of artifact hate, dropping another Chalice on 1 is usualy less important than having that extra Chalice available to be pitch with Devastating Dreams, as well as extra lands that you will loam back, creatures that may not be suited for that moment, ect, you should have plenty to pitch. It says discard at random from your hand, but the number x is chosen all at once, if you have 5 cards in your hand and you have to absolutely keep 1 of them, that is not the right time to DD is it? Be wise here is all i would say. Dismissing the card because of its mana cost (2) is like saying "lets not play Bob, Goyf or Burning Wish because they cost 2 as well". Its just not going to happen. They are all too good of cards to not play. DD is just the same. (Run 1-3 per deck and never 4, and only ever 1 for a wish target)
@ Popeye79
Eternal Witness costs 3 GG1, Which means Turn 2-3 Play, Considering the massive amount of lands in the deck that go to the graveyard she can be a nice play to not miss a land drop and stick some minor defense on the board at the same time. Around turn 5 is when she gets better. Having 5-6 Mana (and lets not get into the what if you don't last 5 turns ect ect, we all know landstill takes 50 turns to do anything and this deck is not so different if its playing the defense.... and PLEASE don't come back with a, this is AGGRO loam, not DEFENSE loam... that's just childish (not saying you would say that but other who read this might)) ... Having 5-6 mana means that you can cast her to get a card back, (land, loam, EE, DD, w/e) and cast it as well, considering the high 2 mana cost in the deck this is not too uncommon. Any turns with mana higher than 5 means you are almost always about to cast her to get back a game breaking card too. I have cast her on turn 6-7 to create enough loamed lands in hand to shock my opponent for 12 damage.
All I'm saying is think of her as another burning wish that gets cards from the graveyard instead and stays on the field to attack or block for you.
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After playing this deck for a while now, and in multiple of its forms (BGW/BG/BGR)
and trying eternal witness i would say that it is a very useful one of in the deck
At the worst you end up dropping, re-grabbing a cycle land and Drawing a card.
I would argue that eternal witness is much less valuable in the deck if you do not include Volrath's Stronghold.
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Eternal witness doesn't have to be recurred with stronghold to be good. And if they countered your crusher you can simply say "I play witness, get back crusher." Play crusher next turn and start beating.
This deck is aggro control; it isn't pure aggro like zoo is. If it were pure aggro we wouldn't play EE, burning wish, devastating dreams, chalice of the void, and 27 lands in the manabase. The deck can go crazy and deal huge amounts of damage but usually not on turn 4 like zoo can.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I would almost be willing to bet that no one who plays Eternal Witness in their deck has ever drawn her and thought "Aww I didn't want that" because chances are, there is always something in the graveyard worth getting back!
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Well, you have 27 lands. That seems really high to me. I play 24, and I am occasionally overrun with land. I noticed no Terravores. I usually play 3 of them and no Seismic Assaults at all. And I usually keep some more Dev Dreams in the sb so that I can bring them in g2 against tribal stuff.
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The Basis idea of the deck:
Aggro Loam is, as it sounds, a deck with a Life from the Loam engine with an Aggro
twist. It wants to play quickly while disrupting the opponents lands and/or
creature base to slow their speed enough to come in for the swift win.
The "Bones" of the deck:
Life from the Loam - No question about it, this is the engine through which this
deck does most of its tricks.
Seismic Assault - A very powerful enchantment when backed with Loam. Allowing near
infinite "shocks" to your opponents life total or to their creature threats.
Countryside Crusher - One of the main beaters. Not only does he allow for you to
swing hard but with a deck that runs almost half of its cards as lands he can help
you thin out your deck and fill your graveyard with plenty of Loam targets.
Dark Confidant - Good old Bob. Allows for some extra draw power and with this deck
being mostly lands and 0 cost or x cost spells he doesn't hurt your very often. If
he does hurt you its never for much more than for 2 or 3 but ANY cards you get
extra in this deck spell defeat for your opponents.
Tarmogoyf- What hasn't been said about this creature? Hes a beater. And in a deck
where you dredge yourself he can get really big really fast.
Terravore - Great card here, After pitching plenty of lands to your yard with
Seismic Assault, this guy only gets larger and his trampling feet will leave marks
on your opponents pretty quickly.
Burning Wish - Not all Aggro Loams decks run this card but enough of them do to
make it notable. It grabs your Loam from the RFG as well as a whole "Wish list"
of some of magics best sorcerys.
Devastating Dreams - It can win games. Because of Mox Diamond or even Loam itself,
This card can wipe the field of annoying weenies and slow your opponents way way
down on mana.
Mox Diamond- It makes Countryside Crusher bigger, Terravore bigger, Helps get
Loam targets, and doesn't die from Devastating Dreams.
Engineered Explosives - This little bottle of tricks is a slower Pernicious Deed
but for a good reason, It wont blow up your Chalice of the Void or you Mox
Diamonds.
Chalice of the Void - Near the entire format runs 1cc cards, Swords, hand haters,
Relic of Progenitous, SOOO many blue cards, and a slew of Elves, Zoo creatures,
and Goblins, not to mention the slightly newer favorites to tribal, Faeries and
Merfolk, Vial and countless other amazing 1cc cards get hosed with this simple
artifact. Playing this on turn 0-2 can really set back a lot of decks.
Volrath's Stronghold - Need a beater back from the yard to say hi? This is how its
done.
Tranquil Thicket or Forgotten Cave - Cycle lands to give you some Loam
tricks, Cycling one of these and dredging loam, and using that very loam to get
the cycler back just lets this deck grab easy acceleration when needed.
Wasteland - This card lets you slow if not stop your opponents from getting all of
the colors of mana they need to win the game, if nothing else when you use this
with a Countryside Crusher out he gets +1/+1, Terravore +2/+2 and sets your opponent back a bit.
Skarrg, the Rage Pits – Allows your Goyfs and Crushers to swing and not get chump blocked.
Sideboard Bones:
Life from the Loam – Wish target. See above.
Devastating Dreams – Wish target. See above.
Maelstrom Pulse – Wish target. If you ever find yourself in a lock where you need something dead and it has a little brother with it, this card will punish your opponent for redundancy.
Shattering Spree – Wish target. Replicate gets around Chalice and its practically un-counterable. Playing this can spell defeat for affinity decks.
Hull Breach – Wish target. Use this when Shattering Spree is not enough or out of commission. There will be many times where you not only need an artifact to say good bye but there is an enchantment that needs to eat it as well.
Worm Harvest - Wish target. A fun card that can either spell defeat for your opponent or create enough blockers to last the rest of the game due to retrace.
Krosan Grip – Split second spells defeat for counter-top decks.
Leyline of the Void / Tormod's Crypt – You will need graveyard hate agains mirror match, dredge, 43 land, reanimator, ect.
Firespout – Wish target. Resets the board vs most other aggro decks.
Defense Grid – Huge helper when faced up against control and even some other decks.
Thorn of Amethyst – Really hurts other decks, slows them down, makes them more mana dependant, and makes a lot of combo decks stall out.
Chainer's Edict – Wisher Target. One of the few cards out there that can kill almost anything. Against reanimator or CT Prog this can become your favorite card.
Vexing Shusher – This creature makes counter decks cry.
Reverent Silence – Wish target. Owns countertop and shuts down enchantress.
Zuran Orb – Because price for progress can literally end the game by itself this card can turn an auto lose into a win.
And SOO many more SB cards can be mentioned, If you think you know one that just has to be on this list PM me with it and I'll try to include it.
Want more SB options SB options? Well here you go, Enjoy! (please note that some of these may or may not make the cut for the primer or may be added in the future, but all were featured in a top 8 decklist and deserve mentioning!)
Deathmark, Last Rites, Rite of Consumption, Pyrostatic Pillar
Cataclysm, Morningtide, Nostalgic Dreams, Pillage
Regrowth, Unearth, Perish, Armageddon
Pulverize, Jund Charm, Ravenous Trap, Mindbreak Trap
Solitary Confinement, Tsunami, Blood Moon, Pyroclasm
Cave-In, Wrath of God ,Pithing Needle, Thought Hemorrhage
Wheel of Sun and Moon, Choke, Kitchen Finks, Extirpate
Crime / Punishment, Volcanic Fallout, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Pernicious Deed
Boil, Gaea's Blessing, Raven's Crime, Gleeful Sabotage
List: RGB Aggro Loam
More Coming soon (if you have some lists you would like to share PM them to me)
Pat McGregor's list (1st place Starcitygames 10k)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
Creatures
4 Countryside Crusher
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Terravore
Spells
3 Seismic Assault
1 Terminate
4 Life from the Loam
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Forgotten Cave
2 Taiga
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Zuran Orb
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Krosan Grip
3 Firespout
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Countryside Crusher
1 Eternal Witness
Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
Enchantments
2 Seismic Assault
Spells
4 Burning Wish
3 Life from the Loam
2 Devastating Dreams
1 Maelstrom Pusle
4 Wasteland
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Forgotten cave
3 Tranquil Thicket
2 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
2 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Krosan Grip
2 Firespout
1 Life from the Loam
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Hull Breach
1 Shattering Spree
1 Worm Harvest
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Forgotten Cave
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
3 Arid Mesa
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Taiga
1 Plateau
3 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Terravore
4 Dark Confidant
Spells
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Devastating Dreams
2 Seismic Assault
4 Burning Wish
3 Life from the Loam
2 Terminate
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Raven's Crime
2 Thoughtseize
1 Firespout
1 Cataclysm
1 Hull Breach
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Unearth
1 Pillage
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Shattering Spree
1 Regrowth
1 Life from the Loam
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Morningtide
I think this is a nice list and shows how diverse the deck can be when forming a SB vs your local meta with cards like Morningtide and Pulverize.
This Deck was sent to me by popeye79
4 Chalice Of The Void
4 Mox Diamond
2 Engineered Explosives
Creatures
3 Countryside Crusher
3 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Terravore
Enchantment
3 Seismic Assault
Spells
4 Burning Wish
2 Devastating Dreams
3 Life From The Loam
Lands
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Plateau
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forgotten Cave
3 Taiga
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Life From The Loam
1 Perish
1 Reverent Silence
1 Shattering Spree
1 Worm Harvest
1 Pulverize
1 Morningtide
Match-ups:A work in progress (This is where i need the most input, what do you stomp
and where do you have the least luck)
For now at least most will agree, Combo is hard to compete against, at times it
just feels like they are too fast. With a god hand that can change of course but
because of no counter and combo needing a lot less lands than most other decks and
usually no creatures, quite a few of the cards in the main deck are just not well
matched for a speedy combo.
As for the easy match-ups, a lot of people agree, anything that needs land tricks or
decks that try to over run you like dredge, zoo, goblins, or elves, have a hard
time on game 1 vs this deck. Land and field hate let the deck swing clear with the
fatties to seal a win.
The so-so match-up turn out to be countertop decks, things with a lot of counters,
which countertop doesn't hit alot of the cards in the deck (seismic a 3cc,
countryside, the fact that loam dredges back, and chalice shutting down 1cc) it
evens out quite a bit here, games against these will usually go 3 games to decide a
winner.
Credits: So far:
Deadskinmask
Popeye79
(This is where anyone who helped me to make the primer or make edits to the post will get mentioned for their efforts)
I need your help to make this primer better! PM me with any tips, corrections, or lists you might have!
Discussion time!
Here are a few topics that people who want to play this deck might want to think about and talk about, Choose a question that you think needs talking about and run with it, If you have your own questions please feel free to stray from my list as all discussions can lead to good insights about a deck.
Q: Dark Confidant and Countryside Crusher, Do you need both? When both of these are out together they both trigger their effects and how you put them on the stack can really hurt one or the other. Therefore some opt to not run the crusher or to not run Bob. Alternately, some choose to run less than 4 each so they can get both in the deck and hope to run into having both out less often. Which do you all like and why?
Q: Burning Wish allows for the deck to run a huge sideboard that should have 1 answer to almost any problem. So whats the Problem? Having a 2cc card at Sorcery speed is a huge target for control decks that would love to do nothing more than to just counter every wish you ever play and CT decks have little trouble locking you out of your 2cc cards so that Chalice for x=1 x=1, goyf, bob, loam, and wish are all out of the runnings. For this very reason, heavy CT meta players will choose to abandon the Wish and go for more main deck threats. Good idea?
Q: What colors do you run other than RG? Black is the most common for Bob and SB tricks, but because a few lists run White this opens the question, should blue ever be considered? perhaps a 4 color version using RGBW, Which colors do you like to run and why not the others? person prefrence, meta choice, bad draws, ect?
Q: Terravore There are lists with 0-3 of these fatties in them. Has anyone found a reason to run alot or few of these?
Q: Eternal Witness Several lists run 1 of these main board including my own. It has a lot of uses but is it really worth playing at x1? Should this creature be run at all? Discuss why you should or shouldn't run this common 1 of.
Q: Match-ups: What do you love to play against and why? What crushes you? What do you laugh at when you crush them? Explain.
Edit: Added in tons of Sideboard material for people to talk about.
+=+=+=+=+Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the Sig!!!+=+=+=+=+
Currently Playing: RGBWAggro LoamWBGR ,BU Reanimator UB, RG 2 Land Belcher GR & UGW Pro Bant WGU
Author of: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207749 (Proven Competitive: Aggro Loam Thread)
My trade thread:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=298309&highlight=karakas
Edit: Didn't see that you actually mentioned burning wish. I am inclined to agree that having a wishboard is generally a solid strategy - though if you don't anticipate heavy GY hate (namely extirpate) then you can manage without it and take a slightly more aggressive route.
BW(G) Junkblade - Legacy
BW Vial Deadguy - Legacy
UWR Geist - Modern
UR(B) Delver - Modern
W(G) Death & Taxes - Modern
Oona, Queen of the Fae - EDH
As for the Eternal Witness, I personally love the 1 of there. I never play her and feel bad about it. Getting back almost anything in this deck gives you crazy advantage. I have even been able to do fun things like get huge mana advantage by using her on turn 3 pre land drop due to a Mox to grab a land from the yard and not miss the land drop for the turn, or using her to fetch back a well needed bomb like EE. Lets not forget quite a few cards in the SB are 1 of. She lets you grab them from the yard and get more bang for your buck!
As for the Terravore, I am still personally unsure of the right number to play. I find Crusher to be a better beater game 2/3 because of all the GY hate. Game 1 though, i must admit he is a huge threat, Much higher threat over Goyf.
+=+=+=+=+Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the Sig!!!+=+=+=+=+
Currently Playing: RGBWAggro LoamWBGR ,BU Reanimator UB, RG 2 Land Belcher GR & UGW Pro Bant WGU
Author of: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207749 (Proven Competitive: Aggro Loam Thread)
Good to see someone with a different point of veiw, however, there were a few things that i didn't agree with.
The whole deck is susceptible to graveyard hate. Loam, Goyf, Terravore or Knight, Eternal, Even Seismic assault to a degree because once they clear your graveyard you will have to rebuild it in order to gain some of the decks power back. With that said, Crusher is awesome and there is no doubt there but to say you always use his ability before the dark confidant is reckless, yes the life is a small price to pay, but with cycling lands and wastelands that you do not always want to go to the graveyard, playing crusher and then hitting confidants ability on non lands could mean you turn a tied game (reguardless if im at 17 life or 7 life) into a loss if you hit a 3cc spell and cant afford it. There is no always in magic for me.
I agree with you on wish being targeted by counters and dropping a threat right after but lets face it. Having 2 threats in your hand is the same thing. The question of "should you play wish" is just that, is there a good reason to not play it? For some, they think there are good reasons to not, and even starcitygames last 10k legacy event was won by a aggro loam deck with no wishes.
Eternal Witness, you give her little credit apparently. She herself is not as slow as one might think. In fact, she can be the opposite. Instead of waiting for you do draw into another x,y, or z. If there is one in the graveyard, She gets it now, Imagine her as a 3cc (green) Burning Wish if you like, that stays in play to block or swing!
+=+=+=+=+Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the Sig!!!+=+=+=+=+
Currently Playing: RGBWAggro LoamWBGR ,BU Reanimator UB, RG 2 Land Belcher GR & UGW Pro Bant WGU
Author of: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207749 (Proven Competitive: Aggro Loam Thread)
--welt
edit: forgot about seismic assault. forget what I said about dragon stompy. you're probably going to eat them alive.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Not to be picky but Forgotten Cave is listed as Forgotten Conclave.
My trade thread:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=298309&highlight=karakas
First, thanks for the credit. I very much appreciate it when people give credit when credit is due.
as for question 1-
sure he's graveyard dependant. but so is goyf. so is the whole deck. teravore is a major threat, and at 3cmc is less likely to get hit by countertop. also the trample is usualy highly important. many have shyed away from him, but i feel that is a mistake. even Soloran X placed pretty highly day 2 at the chicago GP with a goyfless agro loam (because teravore is a much bigger threat {he played vexing shusher in the goyf spot i believe}).
as for question 2-
i have to believe that this is just a "pet card" for most. honestly, in a deck so tight, with so many great options, why waste this one slot? it's only going to shine in long games (like vs landstill). more often than not, i'd have to agree with ElNino.. too slow. but that's just my opinion i suppose.
And landstill is probably this deck's best MU. Hands down. They can't deal with your engine and if you're able to get some momentum they lose hardcore.
Currently Playing:
Retired
On the banning of Mystical Tutor (R.I.P.):
If Eternal is in the yard and Volrath's is in play, you can get HER back, if you have Volrath's in the yard and Eternal gets played you get back Volrath's. If both are in the yard and you loam at any point, you get back the Volrath's and get back the witness!
Saying that you want to make a graveyard hate proof aggro loam is just well.... silly. Making a deck that has the best chances of winning game 1 and having a SB/Wish list ready for when your opponent sideboards graveyard hate is the key. Heck look at is this way. If you know some serious graveyard hate is coming your way, side her out! but you cant tell me shes bad in the deck, if the spells list wasn't so tight already i would play 2 of her for sure. (She has won me about as many games as Goyf and/or Crusher!)
+=+=+=+=+Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the Sig!!!+=+=+=+=+
Currently Playing: RGBWAggro LoamWBGR ,BU Reanimator UB, RG 2 Land Belcher GR & UGW Pro Bant WGU
Author of: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207749 (Proven Competitive: Aggro Loam Thread)
4 goyf
4 countryside crusher
4 dark confident
1 eternal witness
4 life from the loam
3 sismic assult
2 pernicious dead
2 malstrom pulse
1 worm harvest
ive considered adding vexing shusher to the main to help with the fish battle, but then my zoo match up gets worse. I really live the burning wish package some people have been running, but the sizemic assult package is too good, and it's tough to add both of them. I'm also not running devistating dreams, and without DD, is mox diamond needed? Granted i know its good, but is cutting it realistic?
This is why people use Mox Diamond with DD and Engineered Explosives instead of Deed. Deed kills yourChalice and most of the time its slower than Engineered Explosives if you are going to try and blow up 2cc stuff. Most people dont Deed for higher in legacy. Also you arent running Burning Wish, against decks with counters, Burning Wish is amazing. Chalice on 1 is hugely important. Vexing Shusher is also fantastic at getting your Crushers and Goyfs to land. Many people run 3 in the SB.
PS: Run Devastating Dreams... Its just too good.
+=+=+=+=+Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the Sig!!!+=+=+=+=+
Currently Playing: RGBWAggro LoamWBGR ,BU Reanimator UB, RG 2 Land Belcher GR & UGW Pro Bant WGU
Author of: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207749 (Proven Competitive: Aggro Loam Thread)
please re-read and criticly evaluate what you have both written in regards to wittness.
what turn is this going to be happening on? what is your opponent doing?
It's cost is not that bad, Aggro Loam awlays has cards in hand that may not suit the moment. I do not care how tight your list is, Once you have Chalice for 1, Unless you expect a lot of artifact hate, dropping another Chalice on 1 is usualy less important than having that extra Chalice available to be pitch with Devastating Dreams, as well as extra lands that you will loam back, creatures that may not be suited for that moment, ect, you should have plenty to pitch. It says discard at random from your hand, but the number x is chosen all at once, if you have 5 cards in your hand and you have to absolutely keep 1 of them, that is not the right time to DD is it? Be wise here is all i would say. Dismissing the card because of its mana cost (2) is like saying "lets not play Bob, Goyf or Burning Wish because they cost 2 as well". Its just not going to happen. They are all too good of cards to not play. DD is just the same. (Run 1-3 per deck and never 4, and only ever 1 for a wish target)
@ Popeye79
Eternal Witness costs 3 GG1, Which means Turn 2-3 Play, Considering the massive amount of lands in the deck that go to the graveyard she can be a nice play to not miss a land drop and stick some minor defense on the board at the same time. Around turn 5 is when she gets better. Having 5-6 Mana (and lets not get into the what if you don't last 5 turns ect ect, we all know landstill takes 50 turns to do anything and this deck is not so different if its playing the defense.... and PLEASE don't come back with a, this is AGGRO loam, not DEFENSE loam... that's just childish (not saying you would say that but other who read this might)) ... Having 5-6 mana means that you can cast her to get a card back, (land, loam, EE, DD, w/e) and cast it as well, considering the high 2 mana cost in the deck this is not too uncommon. Any turns with mana higher than 5 means you are almost always about to cast her to get back a game breaking card too. I have cast her on turn 6-7 to create enough loamed lands in hand to shock my opponent for 12 damage.
All I'm saying is think of her as another burning wish that gets cards from the graveyard instead and stays on the field to attack or block for you.
+=+=+=+=+Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the Sig!!!+=+=+=+=+
Currently Playing: RGBWAggro LoamWBGR ,BU Reanimator UB, RG 2 Land Belcher GR & UGW Pro Bant WGU
Author of: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207749 (Proven Competitive: Aggro Loam Thread)
After playing this deck for a while now, and in multiple of its forms (BGW/BG/BGR)
and trying eternal witness i would say that it is a very useful one of in the deck
At the worst you end up dropping, re-grabbing a cycle land and Drawing a card.
I would argue that eternal witness is much less valuable in the deck if you do not include Volrath's Stronghold.
Currently working on
B// =34 (Legacy)
R// AggroLoam (Legacy)
B/ Elder dragon highlander, General: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
Team Sexy Decks
Serrephile, US, Mal'ganis, Horde, <zZq>
This deck is aggro control; it isn't pure aggro like zoo is. If it were pure aggro we wouldn't play EE, burning wish, devastating dreams, chalice of the void, and 27 lands in the manabase. The deck can go crazy and deal huge amounts of damage but usually not on turn 4 like zoo can.
Currently Playing:
Retired
+=+=+=+=+Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the Sig!!!+=+=+=+=+
Currently Playing: RGBWAggro LoamWBGR ,BU Reanimator UB, RG 2 Land Belcher GR & UGW Pro Bant WGU
Author of: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207749 (Proven Competitive: Aggro Loam Thread)