Am I missing how the core deck works? How is Sneak Attack a problem? You should be able to either Needle/Revoker/Oring it before they get in two swings, and that's provided they have two creatures to have it come down from their hand.
Isn't Ensnaring Bridge a hard lock against them? What do they have to beat it? They aren't getting ten cards in our hand. They aren't destroying artifacts or likely bouncing it (pre board obviously). Yes they can counter it but it can come down from Show and Tell. So can Runed Halo.
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but isn't the main problem Show and Tell having a Progenitus come down? Karakas and O-ring do not beat it. Like I said before, I don't think Emrakul is a problem. How are we supposed to race progenitus? If they get it down on T2 or T3 (with or without Counterspell backup), then I think it's impossible to race, even with SoLaS.
I think you are understanding OK. My point is if you don't have an answer for Sneak Attack on that turn, or they have 1 or 2 red available, you are prob. sunk, even if they only use it once. Also, I think I would find a hasted Emrakul a problem.
I was advocating Ensnaring Bridge btw. And if you have a Stoneforge Mystic or don't need any more sideboard hate, I think you always go for the SOLAS. Then you have a chance.
I've got a Goyf and taxes build and I threw in some Painter's Servants. My original thought was "If I name green with Painter's Servant, I can green sun's zenith for any creature in my deck (including Serra Avenger)."
It actually works pretty well, so I've been thinking about all the other hilarious things I can do with Painter's Servant! Here's what I've come up with so far:
1. Use Green Sun's Zenith to search for any creature and put it onto the battlefield.
2. All of my swords turn my creatures into unblockable, untargetable creatures depending on which color I name with Painter's Servant.
3. Naming Black, Celestial Purge lets me exile ANY permanent at instant speed for 2 mana.
4. Absolute Law creates a funny situation. If all creatures are red and all have protection from red, what happens?
5. Northern Paladin taps to destroy a black permanent. That could be fun.
6. Refraction Trap prevents 3 damage and then deals three damage at instant speed for one white mana.
7. Kor Firewalker is insane.
8. Life Force is a re-usable counterspell.
9. Funniest card yet: Allosaurus Rider is really cheap to play.
10. Glittering Wish can fetch any colored card from your sideboard.
So far, the Zenith is definitely worth it even without a Painter's Servant in play, because I can get a Goyf or Knight of the Reliquary.
Turn 1: Aether Vial or MOM
Turn 2: Painter's Servant Naming "green" + Aether Vial a one-mana creature
Turn 3: Green Sun's Zenith for Serra Avenger or Tarmogoyf + Aether Vial a two-mana creature
Thoughts? I haven't ever seen anyone try this strategy, so it's either too stupid for other people to mention or too brilliant!
I play Legacy Goyf and Taxes. I used to play Standard but I got smart.
"Now isn't a good time to start buying expensive staples. With all the attention legacy's getting with the SCG 5ks and the GPs, it's probably a better idea to wait until the commotion dies down" - 01-27-2010 by luckme10
on that date you could buy $17 Wastelands at any online store.
I've got a Goyf and taxes build and I threw in some Painter's Servants. My original thought was "If I name green with Painter's Servant, I can green sun's zenith for any creature in my deck (including Serra Avenger)."
It actually works pretty well, so I've been thinking about all the other hilarious things I can do with Painter's Servant! Here's what I've come up with so far:
1. Use Green Sun's Zenith to search for any creature and put it onto the battlefield.
2. All of my swords turn my creatures into unblockable, untargetable creatures depending on which color I name with Painter's Servant.
3. Naming Black, Celestial Purge lets me exile ANY permanent at instant speed for 2 mana.
4. Absolute Law creates a funny situation. If all creatures are red and all have protection from red, what happens?
5. Northern Paladin taps to destroy a black permanent. That could be fun.
6. Refraction Trap prevents 3 damage and then deals three damage at instant speed for one white mana.
7. Kor Firewalker is insane.
8. Life Force is a re-usable counterspell.
9. Funniest card yet: Allosaurus Rider is really cheap to play.
10. Glittering Wish can fetch any colored card from your sideboard.
So far, the Zenith is definitely worth it even without a Painter's Servant in play, because I can get a Goyf or Knight of the Reliquary.
Turn 1: Aether Vial or MOM
Turn 2: Painter's Servant Naming "green" + Aether Vial a one-mana creature
Turn 3: Green Sun's Zenith for Serra Avenger or Tarmogoyf + Aether Vial a two-mana creature
Thoughts? I haven't ever seen anyone try this strategy, so it's either too stupid for other people to mention or too brilliant!
Well then you only need 1 sword so why not throw in some grindstone for an alt win con?
Hmm, for our progentius problem, has anyone considered this?
Costs the same as ensnaring bridge, but has a cost and causes you to lose a life. Not bad against some things I suppose but I think it's worse than bridge against progenitus. The fact that its function can be needled/revokered kinda blows
thanks mr jumbo and joe.
I know this has been discussed before, but how many Karakases should be run in the MD? I've had some games where I knew that if the top deck Plains were a Karakas I would have been very unhappy, while the reverse has been true less often.
Sorry, not a fan of alterations on old cards that are in limited supply. They represent a part of the game's history, and in my opinion altering them shows scant regard for that.
I've got a Goyf and taxes build and I threw in some Painter's Servants. My original thought was "If I name green with Painter's Servant, I can green sun's zenith for any creature in my deck (including Serra Avenger)."
It actually works pretty well, so I've been thinking about all the other hilarious things I can do with Painter's Servant! Here's what I've come up with so far:
1. Use Green Sun's Zenith to search for any creature and put it onto the battlefield.
2. All of my swords turn my creatures into unblockable, untargetable creatures depending on which color I name with Painter's Servant.
3. Naming Black, Celestial Purge lets me exile ANY permanent at instant speed for 2 mana.
4. Absolute Law creates a funny situation. If all creatures are red and all have protection from red, what happens?
5. Northern Paladin taps to destroy a black permanent. That could be fun.
6. Refraction Trap prevents 3 damage and then deals three damage at instant speed for one white mana.
7. Kor Firewalker is insane.
8. Life Force is a re-usable counterspell.
9. Funniest card yet: Allosaurus Rider is really cheap to play.
10. Glittering Wish can fetch any colored card from your sideboard.
So far, the Zenith is definitely worth it even without a Painter's Servant in play, because I can get a Goyf or Knight of the Reliquary.
Turn 1: Aether Vial or MOM
Turn 2: Painter's Servant Naming "green" + Aether Vial a one-mana creature
Turn 3: Green Sun's Zenith for Serra Avenger or Tarmogoyf + Aether Vial a two-mana creature
Thoughts? I haven't ever seen anyone try this strategy, so it's either too stupid for other people to mention or too brilliant!
You might consider creatures that have built-in protection like Silver Knight, but then they can't be equipped or anything.
I don't think Glittering Wish works.
You might want to look at Quinn the Eskimo decks or the even more arcane Rabid Wombat decks because they use Painter Grindstone combo as a win. They are strictly control decks.
Hmm, for our progentius problem, has anyone considered this?
I think this is interesting. In a sense it is a better and worse Bitterblossom. Do you take 4 or 5 from goyf or just one? I recommended this to a Stax player friend of mine. And it also works on Shroud creatures, which is pretty cool.
thanks mr jumbo and joe.
I know this has been discussed before, but how many Karakases should be run in the MD? I've had some games where I knew that if the top deck Plains were a Karakas I would have been very unhappy, while the reverse has been true less often.
I personally run 4. If they can, most opponents will wasteland the first one you play. And running 4 gives you the best chance of drawing one in the face Olof Iona, which pretty much locks you out unless you score vial first. Being able to bounce Emrakul can also be huge. Yeah sometimes you have to throw back hands with double karakas, but it's worth having them show when you need them that makes the 4 worthwhile
Headed out shortly to make the 4 HR drive to take this deck to the top ranks. Wish me luck guys. I'd put my list up but I don't want to have to many ideas running in my head before I go so my list is set in stone as of now and I'm just going to play it.
We have plenty of proper answers for Progenitus. Tge trick is finding a solution for Progenitus that also protects against Enrakul. And Forcefield is not it.
Forcefield won`t work because of this: - Same reason why Awe Strike doesn`t work the way we would want it to.
if you have enough mana to cast Blazing Archon, you better be winning that game... There is no point in getting Vial that high either as by that time the game is already won.... are there any ways in White or Green to cheat Blazing Archon into play? I am not aware of any.
As far as Chronomantic Escape goes, you would need to play one of them per turn, for three successive turns to be able to use them successfully to fend off Progenitus or Emrakul. They aren't viable.
In the case of Heroism, why not just run Circle of Protection: Red instead? Also I am not sure why the clause "The Next Time" doesn't work for us...
Concerning our problem with the two big ones, has anybody ever considered Humility? I deals with either Progenitus or Emrakul, even if Emrakul is hardcasted. Sure its mostly used against us, but considering that we play more creatures than most of our opponents it may work. Its tutorable and harder to remove than Ensnaring Bridge. When we side in Humility we also side in the 4 Tutors, meaning that we can use the second tutor that we (at least I am) draw to get Jitte or SoFaI to give us the crucial advantage. Sure Humility is quite expensive and may come in one turn too late but I think it deserves testing.
Humility is certainly an interesting idea. One that is definitely in my opinion worth testing. Especially given the relevance of Turbo Eldrazi decks in the current meta. I think I may have to test it myself, see if it does well enough for me. I will let you guys all know what I think of it.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
I just went to my very first legacy tournament today. I beat merfolk and stasis, drew to team america and show and tell (the kid stalled when I had him mangara locked G3 =\) and lost to goblins of a topdeck 3rd piledriver. All in all 2-1-2 wasn't so bad (placing me just out of top 8 in a 20-30 person tourney).
I went Feast and Famine over Light and Shadow and it actually saved my butt in multiple games! Revoker was very underwhelming, but I guess it was just my M/Us (it would have been good against team america's deed if I had drawn it).
Concerning our problem with the two big ones, has anybody ever considered Humility? I deals with either Progenitus or Emrakul, even if Emrakul is hardcasted. Sure its mostly used against us, but considering that we play more creatures than most of our opponents it may work. Its tutorable and harder to remove than Ensnaring Bridge. When we side in Humility we also side in the 4 Tutors, meaning that we can use the second tutor that we (at least I am) draw to get Jitte or SoFaI to give us the crucial advantage. Sure Humility is quite expensive and may come in one turn too late but I think it deserves testing.
well arguing against a hate card because an opposing deck runs a potential counter for that hate card is kind of a moot argument. I mean it's not like Ad Nauseam Tendrils back during the Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning Era didn't run hate cards for Ethersworn Canonist and Runed Halo that were tutorable. We still ran the hate. The sad fact for Turbo-Eldrazi is while they may run Repeal, they still have to find their copy of Repeal somewhere in their 75 cards, and the difference is, we can tutor for our answer, they can't. I say that gives us the edge against Turbo-Eldrazi at least for those builds running Humility.
EDIT: Also, I just realized I lost or traded away my only copy of Humility... sorry guys, I may not be able to test it in the current meta afterall
I just went to my very first legacy tournament today. I beat merfolk and stasis, drew to team america and show and tell (the kid stalled when I had him mangara locked G3 =\) and lost to goblins of a topdeck 3rd piledriver. All in all 2-1-2 wasn't so bad (placing me just out of top 8 in a 20-30 person tourney).
I went Feast and Famine over Light and Shadow and it actually saved my butt in multiple games! Revoker was very underwhelming, but I guess it was just my M/Us (it would have been good against team america's deed if I had drawn it).
anyone else like Feast and Famine in the main?
SoFF certainly complements the current equipment package well, giving you a possible protection from *all* relevant colors in a matchup, but I certainly don't like it over SoLS. I've been using SoBM in the sideboard against Merfolk and the like for a while now and it's been working quite handily for me.
Re: Vestal 40 Duals and more 3/19
Very disappointing day
Loss round 1 to landstill ( I won game 1 since I land t1 vial and he draws lands and doesn't reveal any of his deck to me before scooping to avenger and a canonist) lose next 2 due to deed and jace
Round 2 I lose in 3 to merfolk. Game 1 I blow him out. Game 2 he has counter for all my early spells and gets there with multiple lords. Game 3 I start off ok after a mull to five, but have plains, port, karakas as my first 3 lands.. He proceeds to triple propaganda after wastelanding my non basics. Big thing here, this game I vial in a revoker naming mutavault ( I forget it can't target land cards), and then another naming mishra's factory since I had mom and blockers for his blue dudes.This happened with a judge watching and his match was against Ray Robillard so he is an experienced player. All of us miss the misplay until turn 3 after time was called. So I get a game warning and revoker now has no target at all which screws me since if it was caught after the first one I would have named coralhelm which is what wins him the game on turn 5 since they fly.
Round 3 I face zoo and see 3 land game 1 and get my mom burned and he drops finks, jitte, nacatl and I lose. Game 2 I see 2 land and again he has burn for mom after I block a jitte carrying nacatlK
Round 4 the guy asked me to concede but I say no and play him. This goes as merfolk should and I pound him in two games with SoFI on avenger(after this match I wander over to see Pat play jace then standstill and end up ultimate-ing jace for the win after drawing 2 counterspells off of standstill when they tried to stifle jace
Round 5 I Play against junk with bobs, goyf, kotr, and hymn main along with Elspeth. Game 1 takes us literally 30 minutes since I have mom and an avenger with SoFI which after some exchanges of creatures I port his maze of ith and equip a guy with both swords to end it. Game 2 is another battle. Goes to turns starting with me at 26 life and I just take beats and then it is over so we draw
Judge screwed up with Revoker... By naming something you can't name, you should be allowed to name something else... I think it's the same as doing something not allowed, for example a meddling mage naming lightning bolt, then you play bolt, but it's not allowed so you get to take back the bolt to your hand and it doesn't go to the graveyard... So your first revoker, if the judge did his job, would have allowed you to name Coralhelm...
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Judge screwed up with Revoker... By naming something you can't name, you should be allowed to name something else... I think it's the same as doing something not allowed, for example a meddling mage naming lightning bolt, then you play bolt, but it's not allowed so you get to take back the bolt to your hand and it doesn't go to the graveyard... So your first revoker, if the judge did his job, would have allowed you to name Coralhelm...
I can't say I know if he ruling should have been any different. It should have been something I or my opponent "should" have caught. It is one of those things that can escape your mind while you are in the heat of a game. My naming of the illegal targets was not intentional. It is upsetting that it wasn't caught when I landed the first one, or even a turn or two later. I can't really argue with the decision I suppose. Although since the judge WAS watching our whole game it should have been picked up.
well arguing against a hate card because an opposing deck runs a potential counter for that hate card is kind of a moot argument. I mean it's not like Ad Nauseam Tendrils back during the Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning Era didn't run hate cards for Ethersworn Canonist and Runed Halo that were tutorable. We still ran the hate. The sad fact for Turbo-Eldrazi is while they may run Repeal, they still have to find their copy of Repeal somewhere in their 75 cards, and the difference is, we can tutor for our answer, they can't. I say that gives us the edge against Turbo-Eldrazi at least for those builds running Humility.
EDIT: Also, I just realized I lost or traded away my only copy of Humility... sorry guys, I may not be able to test it in the current meta afterall
I agree and disagree with you at the same time! But now that I think about it, Humility helps vs a lot of other threats as well. Prog, qasali, elves. I don't think it affects cycling goblins though, correct?
The only issue is getting stoneforge to work. I would almost take out the sfm and use the 2nd e.tutor drawn to pull out the equipment we need.
If you do this you might want to forego the ports for manlands though.
But back to my comment about the eldrazi. Those repeal are very very easy for them to find due to their cantripping. They also somehow have access to force of will giving them 8 maindeck outs to it. Of course it costs them 5 mana to repeal a humility, and then they must have an additional 15 to cast their alien that turn or we can just humilitate them again.
I would want a pithing needle instead of a revoker in that case to stop tawnos.
Dunno, just thoughts. Also a cataclysm with humility + equipment + manland = fun times.
*Taken from gatherer
10/4/2004: This is not mana ability. It is a normal ability and it will resolve along with other spells and abilities in its stack. The lands untap during resolution.
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I think you are understanding OK. My point is if you don't have an answer for Sneak Attack on that turn, or they have 1 or 2 red available, you are prob. sunk, even if they only use it once. Also, I think I would find a hasted Emrakul a problem.
I was advocating Ensnaring Bridge btw. And if you have a Stoneforge Mystic or don't need any more sideboard hate, I think you always go for the SOLAS. Then you have a chance.
J
I've got a Goyf and taxes build and I threw in some Painter's Servants. My original thought was "If I name green with Painter's Servant, I can green sun's zenith for any creature in my deck (including Serra Avenger)."
It actually works pretty well, so I've been thinking about all the other hilarious things I can do with Painter's Servant! Here's what I've come up with so far:
1. Use Green Sun's Zenith to search for any creature and put it onto the battlefield.
2. All of my swords turn my creatures into unblockable, untargetable creatures depending on which color I name with Painter's Servant.
3. Naming Black, Celestial Purge lets me exile ANY permanent at instant speed for 2 mana.
4. Absolute Law creates a funny situation. If all creatures are red and all have protection from red, what happens?
5. Northern Paladin taps to destroy a black permanent. That could be fun.
6. Refraction Trap prevents 3 damage and then deals three damage at instant speed for one white mana.
7. Kor Firewalker is insane.
8. Life Force is a re-usable counterspell.
9. Funniest card yet: Allosaurus Rider is really cheap to play.
10. Glittering Wish can fetch any colored card from your sideboard.
So far, the Zenith is definitely worth it even without a Painter's Servant in play, because I can get a Goyf or Knight of the Reliquary.
Turn 1: Aether Vial or MOM
Turn 2: Painter's Servant Naming "green" + Aether Vial a one-mana creature
Turn 3: Green Sun's Zenith for Serra Avenger or Tarmogoyf + Aether Vial a two-mana creature
Thoughts? I haven't ever seen anyone try this strategy, so it's either too stupid for other people to mention or too brilliant!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=313352
I play Legacy Goyf and Taxes. I used to play Standard but I got smart.
"Now isn't a good time to start buying expensive staples. With all the attention legacy's getting with the SCG 5ks and the GPs, it's probably a better idea to wait until the commotion dies down" - 01-27-2010 by luckme10
on that date you could buy $17 Wastelands at any online store.
Well then you only need 1 sword so why not throw in some grindstone for an alt win con?
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Costs the same as ensnaring bridge, but has a cost and causes you to lose a life. Not bad against some things I suppose but I think it's worse than bridge against progenitus. The fact that its function can be needled/revokered kinda blows
I'd rather have a Circle of Protection: Green, I think.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
I know this has been discussed before, but how many Karakases should be run in the MD? I've had some games where I knew that if the top deck Plains were a Karakas I would have been very unhappy, while the reverse has been true less often.
You might consider creatures that have built-in protection like Silver Knight, but then they can't be equipped or anything.
I don't think Glittering Wish works.
You might want to look at Quinn the Eskimo decks or the even more arcane Rabid Wombat decks because they use Painter Grindstone combo as a win. They are strictly control decks.
I think this is interesting. In a sense it is a better and worse Bitterblossom. Do you take 4 or 5 from goyf or just one? I recommended this to a Stax player friend of mine. And it also works on Shroud creatures, which is pretty cool.
J
I personally run 4. If they can, most opponents will wasteland the first one you play. And running 4 gives you the best chance of drawing one in the face Olof Iona, which pretty much locks you out unless you score vial first. Being able to bounce Emrakul can also be huge. Yeah sometimes you have to throw back hands with double karakas, but it's worth having them show when you need them that makes the 4 worthwhile
if you have enough mana to cast Blazing Archon, you better be winning that game... There is no point in getting Vial that high either as by that time the game is already won.... are there any ways in White or Green to cheat Blazing Archon into play? I am not aware of any.
As far as Chronomantic Escape goes, you would need to play one of them per turn, for three successive turns to be able to use them successfully to fend off Progenitus or Emrakul. They aren't viable.
In the case of Heroism, why not just run Circle of Protection: Red instead? Also I am not sure why the clause "The Next Time" doesn't work for us...
Humility is certainly an interesting idea. One that is definitely in my opinion worth testing. Especially given the relevance of Turbo Eldrazi decks in the current meta. I think I may have to test it myself, see if it does well enough for me. I will let you guys all know what I think of it.
I went Feast and Famine over Light and Shadow and it actually saved my butt in multiple games! Revoker was very underwhelming, but I guess it was just my M/Us (it would have been good against team america's deed if I had drawn it).
anyone else like Feast and Famine in the main?
Turbodrazi plays repeal
well arguing against a hate card because an opposing deck runs a potential counter for that hate card is kind of a moot argument. I mean it's not like Ad Nauseam Tendrils back during the Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning Era didn't run hate cards for Ethersworn Canonist and Runed Halo that were tutorable. We still ran the hate. The sad fact for Turbo-Eldrazi is while they may run Repeal, they still have to find their copy of Repeal somewhere in their 75 cards, and the difference is, we can tutor for our answer, they can't. I say that gives us the edge against Turbo-Eldrazi at least for those builds running Humility.
EDIT: Also, I just realized I lost or traded away my only copy of Humility... sorry guys, I may not be able to test it in the current meta afterall
SoFF certainly complements the current equipment package well, giving you a possible protection from *all* relevant colors in a matchup, but I certainly don't like it over SoLS. I've been using SoBM in the sideboard against Merfolk and the like for a while now and it's been working quite handily for me.
WW Death & Taxes
GG Control
RR Skred Red
Very disappointing day
Loss round 1 to landstill ( I won game 1 since I land t1 vial and he draws lands and doesn't reveal any of his deck to me before scooping to avenger and a canonist) lose next 2 due to deed and jace
Round 2 I lose in 3 to merfolk. Game 1 I blow him out. Game 2 he has counter for all my early spells and gets there with multiple lords. Game 3 I start off ok after a mull to five, but have plains, port, karakas as my first 3 lands.. He proceeds to triple propaganda after wastelanding my non basics. Big thing here, this game I vial in a revoker naming mutavault ( I forget it can't target land cards), and then another naming mishra's factory since I had mom and blockers for his blue dudes.This happened with a judge watching and his match was against Ray Robillard so he is an experienced player. All of us miss the misplay until turn 3 after time was called. So I get a game warning and revoker now has no target at all which screws me since if it was caught after the first one I would have named coralhelm which is what wins him the game on turn 5 since they fly.
Round 3 I face zoo and see 3 land game 1 and get my mom burned and he drops finks, jitte, nacatl and I lose. Game 2 I see 2 land and again he has burn for mom after I block a jitte carrying nacatlK
Round 4 the guy asked me to concede but I say no and play him. This goes as merfolk should and I pound him in two games with SoFI on avenger(after this match I wander over to see Pat play jace then standstill and end up ultimate-ing jace for the win after drawing 2 counterspells off of standstill when they tried to stifle jace
Round 5 I Play against junk with bobs, goyf, kotr, and hymn main along with Elspeth. Game 1 takes us literally 30 minutes since I have mom and an avenger with SoFI which after some exchanges of creatures I port his maze of ith and equip a guy with both swords to end it. Game 2 is another battle. Goes to turns starting with me at 26 life and I just take beats and then it is over so we draw
And then I drop
WorkshopsLegacy:
Death and Taxes
EDH:
Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!Urza, Lord High Artificer
I can't say I know if he ruling should have been any different. It should have been something I or my opponent "should" have caught. It is one of those things that can escape your mind while you are in the heat of a game. My naming of the illegal targets was not intentional. It is upsetting that it wasn't caught when I landed the first one, or even a turn or two later. I can't really argue with the decision I suppose. Although since the judge WAS watching our whole game it should have been picked up.
I agree and disagree with you at the same time! But now that I think about it, Humility helps vs a lot of other threats as well. Prog, qasali, elves. I don't think it affects cycling goblins though, correct?
The only issue is getting stoneforge to work. I would almost take out the sfm and use the 2nd e.tutor drawn to pull out the equipment we need.
If you do this you might want to forego the ports for manlands though.
But back to my comment about the eldrazi. Those repeal are very very easy for them to find due to their cantripping. They also somehow have access to force of will giving them 8 maindeck outs to it. Of course it costs them 5 mana to repeal a humility, and then they must have an additional 15 to cast their alien that turn or we can just humilitate them again.
I would want a pithing needle instead of a revoker in that case to stop tawnos.
Dunno, just thoughts. Also a cataclysm with humility + equipment + manland = fun times.
*Taken from gatherer
10/4/2004: This is not mana ability. It is a normal ability and it will resolve along with other spells and abilities in its stack. The lands untap during resolution.
WorkshopsLegacy:
Death and Taxes
EDH:
Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!Urza, Lord High Artificer