has anyone proxied up the new UG enchantress? It's quite good but it seems like it has no way of getting to its win condition besides raw card draw and has no cure all defense such as confinement.
The key cards seems to be the interaction between Seal of Removal and Eternal Witness. These cards allow you to block w/ eternal witness, and return it to hand with Seal of Removal. Then on the next turn, get back Seal of Removal via playing Eternal Witness. After which, you play Seal to draw stuff if there are multiples draw effects in play.
As long as you can keep this two going, you're not gonna run out of drawing power to get Words of Wind.
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On the works: Leyline Deck Wins
:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
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This is the list i've been running. The sideboard changes often but i think i'm going to go with this at the moment. The main deck list i've liked though for quite some time. Show and tell is a pain to deal with and i have issues with most combo decks (hive mind, TES, etc...) Overall a super fun deck to play if you know what you're doing!
This is the list i've been running. The sideboard changes often but i think i'm going to go with this at the moment. The main deck list i've liked though for quite some time. Show and tell is a pain to deal with and i have issues with most combo decks (hive mind, TES, etc...) Overall a super fun deck to play if you know what you're doing!
Personally Id take crop rotation and emrakul out of the mainboard, I really cant stand those cards. They are pretty much the epitome of win more, its not critical to get sanctum out and whenever I play it I always assume it will die that turn. Is it awesome? Of course, but not so important that we have to devote a slot in the deck that has no other synergy and causes us to lose a land if countered. And emrakul is sooooo awkward in 95% of situations when you arent winning (Ive only had one time where I was dead but drew him and won with a sanctum out). Every other situations he has zero synergy with the deck (if you are decking yourself, practice more because that should never happen) because he is not an enchantment (very relevant as we have to keep the number of non enchantment cards to a minimum), and is a GOD AWFUL topdeck or is a blank card in the opener. And if you are winning? He does pretty much everything any other win con would have done for you. Id play 2 Green sun's zenith instead, that card is absolutely nuts and I dont foresee myself ever returning to not playing it. Im also not a fan of mainboard humility because of how it shuts off our argothians, but that is a personal preference/meta thing.
In the sb Id take out rule of law, the city of solitude, seal of cleansing and replenish. The first is far too slow against storm combo which is the only matchup youd bring it in against. Have you ever played against canonist? It hurts you almost just as bad and slows you down to a crawl. I have long since stopped playing 2 cities in my 75 because I prefered playing chokes. Play seal of primordium instead of cleansing because it is green, which is our primary color. And Ive never really felt the need for more replenish. I still like a lignify in the board against Iona and other scary creatures, a second choke, Im still a fan of Raking canopy for Thresh and miracle top. Possibly a second O ring if you like, aura of silence, nevermore if you like it (I stopped playing it personally), more wheels (dredge has gotten rather scary anymore). So its up to you.
Just 2 cents from a guy who almost exclusively plays enchantress. Hope that helps.
What's your opinion on current lists not running Suppression Field? For me at least, when I switched over to a version that made use of it, I finally found that I was "onto" something, a variant of the deck that could actually go beyond T2/1.5. It just fills in so, so many gaps, neutering a laundry list of the most played cards in the format, and all it really means for YOU is no WoW, no Blood Moon, and no fetches. First and foremost, it slows down/shuts off our two biggest headaches, Deed and EE. For virtually everything else, it's pure value. All equipment, Wasteland/Port, Aether Vial, Karakas, Mangara, Griselbrand, Sneak Attack, Planeswalkers, you name it, they all get completely neutered. With ESG as a ramp engine, it also has that "Win the game on turn 1" aspect, if you say, land it and your opponent has a hand full of fetches. Fill in the gaps that it leaves in the MD with a few more O-rings and you're set against SnT too. I found in practice that the ONLY matchup that I got weaker against was Combo Elves.
SnT and Reanimator are a lot more manageable when you can squeeze 2-3 O-rings and perhaps a Humility MD. Paying 2-4 mana to use a Griselbrand, that probably can't attack you due to Elephant Grass makes him alot more manageable. All they have left at that point really is a few Daze or FoW before you take over the game.
The ONLY issue for me outside of a few things like Jin Gitaxias is finding a suitable win condition that reacts favorably with Suppression field, and possibly Humility. And Sigil already works here about 90 percent of the time, only issue being that it can be really slow if you need to play Humility.
What's your opinion on current lists not running Suppression Field? For me at least, when I switched over to a version that made use of it, I finally found that I was "onto" something, a variant of the deck that could actually go beyond T2/1.5. It just fills in so, so many gaps, neutering a laundry list of the most played cards in the format, and all it really means for YOU is no WoW, no Blood Moon, and no fetches. First and foremost, it slows down/shuts off our two biggest headaches, Deed and EE. For virtually everything else, it's pure value. All equipment, Wasteland/Port, Aether Vial, Karakas, Mangara, Griselbrand, Sneak Attack, Planeswalkers, you name it, they all get completely neutered. With ESG as a ramp engine, it also has that "Win the game on turn 1" aspect, if you say, land it and your opponent has a hand full of fetches. Fill in the gaps that it leaves in the MD with a few more O-rings and you're set against SnT too. I found in practice that the ONLY matchup that I got weaker against was Combo Elves.
SnT and Reanimator are a lot more manageable when you can squeeze 2-3 O-rings and perhaps a Humility MD. Paying 2-4 mana to use a Griselbrand, that probably can't attack you due to Elephant Grass makes him alot more manageable. All they have left at that point really is a few Daze or FoW before you take over the game.
The ONLY issue for me outside of a few things like Jin Gitaxias is finding a suitable win condition that reacts favorably with Suppression field, and possibly Humility. And Sigil already works here about 90 percent of the time, only issue being that it can be really slow if you need to play Humility.
you should post your suppression field list. :):):)
If you were going to add Crop Rotation, probably a Replenish or the MD Leyline of Sanctity. Seeing you are running Choke main, I'll assume you know you're going into a heavy Blue environment. If that's the case, Leyline.
There is lots of blue around, but it comes in the form of Delver, High Tide, and ANT as often as not. So I like my Leyline main (It`s also Solitary Confinement number three in my build)
@crimhead
The only ones that feels right to replace with a Crop Rotation are Sylvan Library, a Wild Growth, or an Elvish Spirit Guide.
Library is Mirri`s Guile number two. I don`t need four Wild Growths, but they`re the reason I run Spirit Guides (which are land nineteen and twenty), so I`d rather keep that package intact.
Also Aura Of Silence has always been a maindeck for the mirror. It might be able to be cuts since it's so rarely a deck you'd have a mirror match with.
One of the reasons I built Enchantress was that I hadn`t seen it locally and I wanted to increase the diversity of my local meta. Turns out I`m one of four people who`ve just built it - three of us were playing it in a tourney of less than twenty. Aura Of Silence is good against Affinity, MUD, and Counter-Top, so I`m inclined to keep it.
Personally Id take crop rotation...
...out of the mainboard...
...pretty much the epitome of win more, its not critical to get sanctum out and whenever I play it I always assume it will die that turn. Is it awesome? Of course, but not so important that we have to devote a slot in the deck that has no other synergy and causes us to lose a land if countered.
Personally I was wanting Crop Rotation as a side board to help get Karakas. It`s other use is dealing with redundant Legendary lands (I run two Karakas main). I think I can live without it though - side board space is tight in this deck.
you should post your suppression field list. :):):)
Okay hehe, I've since gutted the deck for my cube but I will type out the "idealized" list when I get home later (I decided to buy an amplifier instead of a Moat )
I have been running 1 MB Suppression field and 1 SB Suppression field in my current list and it has been game defining when used and easy to remove for SB utility if needed. Running a singleton MB means WoW is only 3 mana for activation, slow, but usable, and I only run 4 fetch, Windswept and Catacombs. What helps that being possible, IMO, is my 2/2 split of Wild Growth and Exploration. I will try the 1/1 split of MGuile and SLibrary (as both seem to run the same price and my 2nd Guile is currently a proxy). I currently have no MB Choke (what was I thinking?...that will be changed to 1 MB). I am running a Blood Moon MB, Ground Seal MB, and Nevermore MB to wrap up the cripple package (I expect to see Mav, SnT, and Reanimate in my LGS tourneys).
One other change I have in my list is running 1x Sigarda MB coupled with 1x GSZ. With Sigarda, that chalks up the wincons to 3 in the main and 1 Emrakul SB (Painter and SnT side).
I looked at enchantress in modern when the format first existed. It just doesn't work because you don't get a self protecting enchantress (argothian) and you don't get one that triggers other enchantresses (presence).
Beyond that, you lose so much of the deck. No wild growthsFertile Ground, no solitaryPhyrexian Unlife, no elephant grassGhostly Prison, no words of war/wind, no library, no mirri's guile, no crop rotation, no karakas, no serra's sanctum, no moat,Ghostly Prison no city of solitude, no humility, and no enlightened tutor Idyllic Tutor.
Instead, you get more expensive, less resilient enchantresses, and lose a lot of the key cards for the deck with no decent equivalents to replace them.
Anyway, I'd also be curious to see a suppression field list.
Also, I don't get where you get 16 enchantresses unless you're relying on auras (kor spirit dancer) and killing your own enchantments (femref enchantress). The first seems like you're asking to get 2-for-1'd and the other just seems counterintuitive to the deck.
WotC printed Verduran Enchantress and Mesa Enchantress, both of which we don't run. I don't play modern, though (and wouldn't run these in Legacy).
I'm thinking of building enchantress as my first foray into Legacy. I have been playtesting some budget and semi-budget proxy versions and though the classic WG as well a expensive WGU versions have been the most powerful, I really like enchantress green storm and would love to make a version that works in Legacy. However without experience in the format perhaps I'm just being optimistic. Is there too much storm hate for it to work? Gaea's Touch/Rofellos' Gift/Early Harvest makes getting to storm count do-able on turn 3 and easy on turn 4 so far in testing (and I'm loving Autumn's Veil). Perhaps a BUG version would be better than mono-green-plus-Tendrils. Is storm only competitive with turn 1/turn 2 wins? Thoughts?
This is my take on what a suppression field deck would look like.
Main changes
-Moat - for the poor people
+2 Green Sun Zenith- for threat density
- all Fetch lands- don't work well with suppression field
- Words of War +Words of Wind- I think controlling the board why leaving your opponent permanentless is better, also allows you to pick up your fields or chain cast enchantments easier.
Any initial thoughts? I haven't play tested it at all.
Another question: from reading some of the comments it seems most people think Choke > City of Solitude > Autumn's Veil, is this correct?
City of Solitude is primarily against counter heavy decks and HivePact (shuts it down pretty well if they can't bounce it). Choke is good vs. upwards of 60% or more of the meta. Autumn's Veil doesn't trigger enchantress and only lasts that turn, aka practically worthless for our purposes. Eyes of the Wisent would be more worthwhile in the deck than Autumn's Veil.
@Makaveli - A couple of problems. One is minor, you have taiga listed when you changed to blue, so I assume you mean tropical island. Second is bigger - you don't mean suppression field, you mean energy field. Suppression field is "abilities costs 2 more to activate unless they're mana abilities". Energy field is "prevent all damage, sac when a card goes to your grave".
Oops you're right about the taiga
But no I do mean suppression field it was mentioned earlier in this thread as a good card for the general meta of legacy since it hoses so many card but leaves us generally untouched.
I never thought about it until now but almost EVERY legacy deck takes advantage of cheap activation costs. Sensei's Divining Top is another big offender.
Overall the main "angle" I'm trying to convey it maximum threat density. You want the most number of cards to scream "Counter Me!".
For many decks Suppression Field, Choke, City of Solitude, Replenish, Green Sun's Zenith and all your enchantresses are "must" counters. That 22 card in your deck that could quickly cause major problems for your opponent. And that's just non aggro decks. If you factor in your Grasses and solitary confinements (which now that I'm looking at the list they seem to have disappeared /sigh") the number goes up from there.
IMO, Suppression Field should be a standard 1-of MB. At 1-of, it doesn't hurt us that bad, as we can still work around it, but it hinders other decks just enough till we can get solitary/enchantress online.
Due to being in the MTGS Legacy tourney, I don't want to post my exact list, but I will have a run down of what went on in the matches.
IMO, Suppression Field should be a standard 1-of MB. At 1-of, it doesn't hurt us that bad, as we can still work around it, but it hinders other decks just enough till we can get solitary/enchantress online.
Due to being in the MTGS Legacy tourney, I don't want to post my exact list, but I will have a run down of what went on in the matches.
Well I'm proposing a redesign of the deck that changes the "silver bullet" design for a "threat density" design. Casting multiple suppression fields (I'm pretty sure) have a stacking affect.
This is a redo to include Confinements. You probably could get away with running no dual lands since the main purpose for their inclusion was their interaction with fetches.
I think a good question to ask when building an enchantress deck is
Does this card affect the board the moment it hits play?
And
Would it be worth playing with no enchantress affect?
I think Suppression Field meets both these criteria.
I think that with 4 Suppression Field, you're hurting 1 of 2 wincons. Perhaps an alternate wincon should be available. Since there are GSZ in the list, perhaps -1 GSZ +1 Sigarda, Host of Herons. Personally, I've never seen the need to have more than 2 GSZ in Enchantress as there are only 4 targets normally. This also keeps your GSZ from being dead later when you don't need anymore enchantress effects.
The key cards seems to be the interaction between Seal of Removal and Eternal Witness. These cards allow you to block w/ eternal witness, and return it to hand with Seal of Removal. Then on the next turn, get back Seal of Removal via playing Eternal Witness. After which, you play Seal to draw stuff if there are multiples draw effects in play.
As long as you can keep this two going, you're not gonna run out of drawing power to get Words of Wind.
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Elephant Grass
1 Moat
1 City of Solitude
1 Blood Moon
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Runed Halo
4 Sterling Grove
1 Humility
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Words of War
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress Presence
2 Replenish
5 Forest
3 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Karakas
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Stony Silence
1 Ground Seal
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 City of Solitude
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Aegis of Honor
1 Replenish
1 Runed Halo
1 Rule of Law
1 Choke
1 Karmic Justice
Personally Id take crop rotation and emrakul out of the mainboard, I really cant stand those cards. They are pretty much the epitome of win more, its not critical to get sanctum out and whenever I play it I always assume it will die that turn. Is it awesome? Of course, but not so important that we have to devote a slot in the deck that has no other synergy and causes us to lose a land if countered. And emrakul is sooooo awkward in 95% of situations when you arent winning (Ive only had one time where I was dead but drew him and won with a sanctum out). Every other situations he has zero synergy with the deck (if you are decking yourself, practice more because that should never happen) because he is not an enchantment (very relevant as we have to keep the number of non enchantment cards to a minimum), and is a GOD AWFUL topdeck or is a blank card in the opener. And if you are winning? He does pretty much everything any other win con would have done for you. Id play 2 Green sun's zenith instead, that card is absolutely nuts and I dont foresee myself ever returning to not playing it. Im also not a fan of mainboard humility because of how it shuts off our argothians, but that is a personal preference/meta thing.
In the sb Id take out rule of law, the city of solitude, seal of cleansing and replenish. The first is far too slow against storm combo which is the only matchup youd bring it in against. Have you ever played against canonist? It hurts you almost just as bad and slows you down to a crawl. I have long since stopped playing 2 cities in my 75 because I prefered playing chokes. Play seal of primordium instead of cleansing because it is green, which is our primary color. And Ive never really felt the need for more replenish. I still like a lignify in the board against Iona and other scary creatures, a second choke, Im still a fan of Raking canopy for Thresh and miracle top. Possibly a second O ring if you like, aura of silence, nevermore if you like it (I stopped playing it personally), more wheels (dredge has gotten rather scary anymore). So its up to you.
Just 2 cents from a guy who almost exclusively plays enchantress. Hope that helps.
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On the topic of Moat:
SnT and Reanimator are a lot more manageable when you can squeeze 2-3 O-rings and perhaps a Humility MD. Paying 2-4 mana to use a Griselbrand, that probably can't attack you due to Elephant Grass makes him alot more manageable. All they have left at that point really is a few Daze or FoW before you take over the game.
The ONLY issue for me outside of a few things like Jin Gitaxias is finding a suitable win condition that reacts favorably with Suppression field, and possibly Humility. And Sigil already works here about 90 percent of the time, only issue being that it can be really slow if you need to play Humility.
you should post your suppression field list. :):):)
There is lots of blue around, but it comes in the form of Delver, High Tide, and ANT as often as not. So I like my Leyline main (It`s also Solitary Confinement number three in my build)
Library is Mirri`s Guile number two. I don`t need four Wild Growths, but they`re the reason I run Spirit Guides (which are land nineteen and twenty), so I`d rather keep that package intact.
Main deck Leyline Of Sanctity has been helpful so far. Mirri`s Guile is fantastic - it helps you plan your upkeep costs and shuffle effects like a psychic plus the immediate card selection helps too. I prefer Sylvan Library over a second Mriri`s Guile as two of either are redundant. Sylvan Library is also good with Words Of War.
One of the reasons I built Enchantress was that I hadn`t seen it locally and I wanted to increase the diversity of my local meta. Turns out I`m one of four people who`ve just built it - three of us were playing it in a tourney of less than twenty. Aura Of Silence is good against Affinity, MUD, and Counter-Top, so I`m inclined to keep it.
Personally I was wanting Crop Rotation as a side board to help get Karakas. It`s other use is dealing with redundant Legendary lands (I run two Karakas main). I think I can live without it though - side board space is tight in this deck.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Okay hehe, I've since gutted the deck for my cube but I will type out the "idealized" list when I get home later (I decided to buy an amplifier instead of a Moat )
Signature by Rivenor
there are no good enchantresses besides 0/1 argothian and presence
3 manas for a creature without an autowin or match-defining ability... is a bad idea these days
One other change I have in my list is running 1x Sigarda MB coupled with 1x GSZ. With Sigarda, that chalks up the wincons to 3 in the main and 1 Emrakul SB (Painter and SnT side).
GW/R Enchantress (Legacy) R/WG
RW/G/ Norin The Champion/Norin the Artist (Modern) B//WR
GU Eternal Bouncing Command (Modern) UG
WUBRG Wish On A Stick (Modern) GRBUW
It is still a powerful deck and it works.
Signature by Rivenor
WotC printed Verduran Enchantress and Mesa Enchantress, both of which we don't run. I don't play modern, though (and wouldn't run these in Legacy).
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Signature by Rivenor
Main changes
-Moat - for the poor people
+2 Green Sun Zenith- for threat density
- all Fetch lands- don't work well with suppression field
- Words of War +Words of Wind- I think controlling the board why leaving your opponent permanentless is better, also allows you to pick up your fields or chain cast enchantments easier.
Any initial thoughts? I haven't play tested it at all.
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Sterling Grove
4 Elephant Grass
2 Mirri"s Guile
2 Replenish
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Words of Wind
4 Suppression Field
1 Choke
1 City of Solitude
6 Forest
2 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
2 Serra"s Sanctum
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Karakas
City of Solitude is primarily against counter heavy decks and HivePact (shuts it down pretty well if they can't bounce it). Choke is good vs. upwards of 60% or more of the meta. Autumn's Veil doesn't trigger enchantress and only lasts that turn, aka practically worthless for our purposes. Eyes of the Wisent would be more worthwhile in the deck than Autumn's Veil.
GW/R Enchantress (Legacy) R/WG
RW/G/ Norin The Champion/Norin the Artist (Modern) B//WR
GU Eternal Bouncing Command (Modern) UG
WUBRG Wish On A Stick (Modern) GRBUW
Oops you're right about the taiga
But no I do mean suppression field it was mentioned earlier in this thread as a good card for the general meta of legacy since it hoses so many card but leaves us generally untouched.
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Sterling Grove
4 Elephant Grass
2 Mirri"s Guile
2 Replenish
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Words of Wind
4 Suppression Field
1 Choke
1 City of Solitude
6 Forest
2 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
2 Serra"s Sanctum
2 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Karakas
I never thought about it until now but almost EVERY legacy deck takes advantage of cheap activation costs. Sensei's Divining Top is another big offender.
For many decks Suppression Field, Choke, City of Solitude, Replenish, Green Sun's Zenith and all your enchantresses are "must" counters. That 22 card in your deck that could quickly cause major problems for your opponent. And that's just non aggro decks. If you factor in your Grasses and solitary confinements (which now that I'm looking at the list they seem to have disappeared /sigh") the number goes up from there.
Due to being in the MTGS Legacy tourney, I don't want to post my exact list, but I will have a run down of what went on in the matches.
GW/R Enchantress (Legacy) R/WG
RW/G/ Norin The Champion/Norin the Artist (Modern) B//WR
GU Eternal Bouncing Command (Modern) UG
WUBRG Wish On A Stick (Modern) GRBUW
Well I'm proposing a redesign of the deck that changes the "silver bullet" design for a "threat density" design. Casting multiple suppression fields (I'm pretty sure) have a stacking affect.
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Sterling Grove
3 Elephant Grass
2 Mirri's Guile
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Words of Wind
4 Suppression Field
1 Choke
1 City of Solitude
2 Replenish
6 Forest
2 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
2 Serra"s Sanctum
2 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Karakas
Does this card affect the board the moment it hits play?
And
Would it be worth playing with no enchantress affect?
I think Suppression Field meets both these criteria.
GW/R Enchantress (Legacy) R/WG
RW/G/ Norin The Champion/Norin the Artist (Modern) B//WR
GU Eternal Bouncing Command (Modern) UG
WUBRG Wish On A Stick (Modern) GRBUW