I'd cut 1 city and 1 runed halo to fit in 2 ground seal. Ground seal is good because you draw a card even without having a presence or argothian out so it is never card disadvantage and if they counter it then they are likely losing because then you'll have enchantress effect resolve most likely. Ground seal is surprisingly good against a lot of things like academy ruins, life from the loam, dread return (although we already crush ichorid), extirpate (actually had this come up in a tournament and I thought "WOW ground seal actually does something in this MU).
Lignify is the best answer against Iona IMO because its cheap in cost, can be tutored for, and can be used against a variety of decks because it is pseudo removal against aggro turning that tarmogoyf into a 0/4 treefolk seems good.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
It's understandable blue control players would be shocked and in denial at the notion of this card, since their decks have been dominating multiple formats for an eternity yet they've curiously never once had to deal with any counter-hosers that weren't ineffectual, narrow CRAP.
Here is my current sideboard:
1x Runed Halo
1x Replenish
4x Mindbreak Trap
4x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Choke
1x Lignify
2x Aura of Silence
Right now I am confidant about the Aura of Silence (to shut down Deed, Explosives and a bunch of other nasty stuff) and I have the traps for combo. What my main debate is about running the 4x Wheel of Sun and Moon. Are these better than Leyline?
My current playgroup has an ANT, a re-animator player and a Dredge player (and I got whooped by the re-animator deck just today, though oddly beat the ANT player 2-0!), and I was thinking that Leyline is much better because it cannot be countered and comes on immediately (really a late Wheel, even Turn 2, doesn't help much). What do you guys think? 4x Leyline over the Wheels? It's where I'm leaning. Any other suggestions re my sideboard. (There's a merfolk deck which I beat comfortably today 2-0, and a Terravore/Seismic land based deck that I also beat 2-0). Others decks that are sometimes played include X lands, charbelcher and faeries.
Also, is it worth it having the Traps for combo? (I never sided in against the ANT player as he took ages to get even close to going off in both games, then ironically went off turn one against another player!).
I'm gonna play at a local legacy event next sunday. Does anyone have any experience with root maze helping against combo? I know, the ANT guys can still draw xx spells with Ad Nauseam, but at least they can't use LED and the like the same turn they play it.
I'm gonna play at a local legacy event next sunday. Does anyone have any experience with root maze helping against combo? I know, the ANT guys can still draw xx spells with Ad Nauseam, but at least they can't use LED and the like the same turn they play it.
They can still use LED. It reads: "Sacrifice Lion's Eye Diamond, Discard your hand:." They don't have to tap it to sac. it. Besides, while Root Maze does hit lands/Moxes, they still run 4/4 Dark Ritual/Cabal Ritual, so they can rely on those for the mana the need. If all else fails, a lot of ANT players run Chain of Vapor or some other type of bounce MD/SB.
My suggestions for ANT are Mindbreak Trap/Chalice of the Void. I run 4/4 in my SB to give me at least a fighting chance against Combo.
If you don't have Chalices, the Mindbreak's are a somewhat decent substitute. But rememeber that a lot of ANT players run Orim's Chant and Pact of Negation.
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So question - is Chalice for 0 better than Mindbreak Trap against ANT? Is this just a better SB card as it's more flexible? I've got the Traps in there atm but I can change them out if Chalice is better! Also is it worth getting a solitary Karakas to improve the match-up vs Reanimator?
They can still use LED. It reads: "Sacrifice Lion's Eye Diamond, Discard your hand:." They don't have to tap it to sac. it. Besides, while Root Maze does hit lands/Moxes, they still run 4/4 Dark Ritual/Cabal Ritual, so they can rely on those for the mana the need. If all else fails, a lot of ANT players run Chain of Vapor or some other type of bounce MD/SB.
My suggestions for ANT are Mindbreak Trap/Chalice of the Void. I run 4/4 in my SB to give me at least a fighting chance against Combo.
If you don't have Chalices, the Mindbreak's are a somewhat decent substitute. But rememeber that a lot of ANT players run Orim's Chant and Pact of Negation.
Thanks for the hint, I see why root maze is useless. I was unlucky to run into two ANT players at the Legacy event yesterday and now I know from my own experience why this MU sucks. Didn't have the slightest chance in 3 of 4 games and while I had my opponent locked during the 4th game with Confinement/Aura/Grove he was digging into his library with Ad Nauseam making me wonder about his solutions. He was down to 1 life when he showed me Reverent Silence
I will definitely try out the Chalices. Sounds like a decent option and maybe I won't be cannon fodder the next time!
So question - is Chalice for 0 better than Mindbreak Trap against ANT? Is this just a better SB card as it's more flexible? I've got the Traps in there atm but I can change them out if Chalice is better! Also is it worth getting a solitary Karakas to improve the match-up vs Reanimator?
I'd figure that Chalice is better because they can always duress your Mindbreak Trap. Plus if you start with Chalice you can deny them all 0CC spells.
Ichorid is typically a very easy MU. All they have to touch you is cabal therapy and if you negate that you are typically fine against them since elephant grass x2 on board against them is usually game (getting 4 lands is quite hard in a deck running at most 16 and this may be an overestimate). Or getting solitary lock is game as well. But elephant grass is the MVP here and post board look for ray of revelation. Ground seal kinda helps in this MU shutting down their dread returns and runed halo can be good if they reanimate a huge grave-troll to beat through grass. But overall a very good MU in your favor pre and post board.
ANT/combo decks are this decks worst MU. You can often do nothing against them save try to get a solitary lock down ASAP or maybe be techy and play children of korlis or some other hate bear like true believer. Runed halo is probably the best card in this MU though and getting it down as fast as possible naming tendrils of agony. Against belcher we have a game and at the same time we don't if they win via goblin charbelcher hitting you for 50 we typically lose unless we have runed halo out on charbelcher. If they go 12 goblins against us we can win very easily via elephant grass since they can attack with at most 2 goblins per turn via LED plus land on board.
Against burn you try to land CoP red or warmth quickly game 2 and game 1 you try to solitary lock them before they kill your. Elephant grass may help if they ever draw a creature like keldon marauders they won't be able to attack without sucking up one of their turns swinging and tapping out to pay for grass. I found this MU to be in their favor though when I played it.
Goblins cries when they face your elephant grass's and solitary lock because they can do nothing preboard. You just have to make sure to keep a hand with either elephant grass or a quick solitary lock to ensure staying alive long enough to lock them out or win. Make sure if you can that lackey doesn't connect turn 2 if you run 2 drop answers to slow them down. 2 cmc removal would be lignify, journey to nowhere, or runed halo on it. Unless you were on the play and could go wild growth T1 then o ring it turn 2.
I have never faced DnT so I know little about that MU.
The rock is a touch MU IMO because if they run land destruction like vindicate or sinkhole they can potentially 2 for 1 you hitting a land with wild growth or utopia sprawl on it. They can also thoughtseize your enchantress away before you can cast it or blow up presence with vindicate if you do cast it. Hymn can wreck you if they run it. Overall a hard MU I think after board bring in replenish.
Reanimator is an interesting MU. In this MU, you MUST land sterling grove ASAP before they reanimate Iona. Because if you accomplish this and you have grove on your side and Iona on their side, you can remove it with lignify if they named white or you can o ring or runed halo it if they named green preferably o ring since you can then play green spells again. Karakas works as well. Ground seal can randomly be a champion against them if they can't get an exhume afterwards although relying solely on ground seal is risky because exhume, if they have it, just blows you out. Postboard bring in more GY hate like ground seal and/or wheel of sun and moon.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Ok, but they need a perfect hand and a perfectly stacked deck to pull it off. And it doesn't happen very often...
No need for the deck to be stacked or anything. Ad Nauseam'ing with 20 life pretty much guarantees a win. 'cept if you flip your two 4cc spells consecutively, like what happened with David Do Anh at GP Madrid, on the finals.
ANT is hard. My SB has four chalices and a mindbreak trap (because I only own one. I'm after the second, maybe even third.) and I still have nightmares about that MU.
Living wish, as a four of, is okayish in enchantress depending on how you build it. If I were to have a living wish SB it would include argothian enchantress, emrakul, kor haven, the tabernacle from pendrell vale, karakas, faerie macabre, and maybe some other odd utility lands and creatures. The problem with living wish is how slow it is and it is a tempo loss. Also gets spell snare'd.
Also I would probably MD choke over karmic justice. Choke is good against so much of the meta it isn't even funny and is a must counter for blue decks. I've found karmic justice to be okay from time to time but in some MUs is meh.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Does the banning of Mystical Tutor give Enchantress a significant boost? From what I'm reading, ANT and Reanimator were two of our worst matchups, and they just got a solid kick in the nuts.
Does the banning of Mystical Tutor give Enchantress a significant boost? From what I'm reading, ANT and Reanimator were two of our worst matchups, and they just got a solid kick in the nuts.
This is what I was wondering. I glanced at the ANT thread and there are a bunch of people talking about disassembling the deck. Combo is weakened, at least until they can adjust. Even then, it's not going to be at the same level.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I would say that this makes us more competitive. Combo was by far our weakest match up. Zoo is a good match up for us and with this change zoo might be the most prevailing deck with this change. So, I think that Enchantress has a good chance of doing well at tournaments.
The only thing is with the Unbanning of the Grim Monolith we might see some random new deck come out. So, I would watch this. But right now Aggro is going to be very prevailing deck type we stand a good chance.
ANT was a terrible MU, but reanimator was perfectly winnable. I'd say the MU was 40/60 in their favor at its greatest because they can randomly turn 1 Iona and just kill us with her while if they have a slow start they will lose due to solitary lock or too many elephant grasses on board or their Iona getting lignified or karakas bouncing it. ANT was terrible though and makes us cry very hard. Although I just saw some enchantment tech used in an ichorid SB of all places: root maze. If we cast that turn 1, or turn 2, it shuts off their moxen and we can win easily if we have root maze backed up with sterling grove to protect it from bounce. ANT just got significantly worse though, not being able to play mystical tutor anymore is a very hard hit.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I play GWR Enchantress. Its your basic build, my wins are Sigil of Empty Throne, and Words of War.
Last Friday I lost horribly to BwPox. Is this just a bad match up for Enchantress? I'm asking because I have no experience playing against Pox, but it seems to me like its not in our favor. I play Enchantress, Dreadstill and T.E.S. In a metagame filled with creature decks and some blue control. Recently Pox decks have been showing up. Whats our best SB for Pox?
Spiritual Focus comes to mind as viable choice since they generally run a lot of discard. Karmic justice is no good since sacrificing doesn't trigger karmic justice. Your goal here is to land an enchantress's presence ASAP and to play wild growth effects only turn 2 or after since playing it turn 1 results in them smallpoxing it away or poxing it away whereas with 2 land you are protected somewhat. All matchups where they make you discard a lot are bad MU's though because enchantress is kind of slow until it gets the draws going. Enlightened tutor is your friend in the pox MU as well.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
honestly, it's a good card in most matchups where they would target you. that said, it makes it a good sideboard card against burn and it depends on if you need it or not vs. combo decks that have yet to define themselves.
Death & Taxes is pretty much a bye for Enchantress... Preboard, the only game they have is against your lands. Rishadan Port, Wasteland, and Mangara of Corondor. Post board, Cataclysm comes in, IF they have it, and Ethersworn Canonist might pose a problem. Sterling Grove on the table shuts off anything else they could do to you. Enchantress pretty much renders the entire deck useless.
Vs. Pox: Early disruption/discard can shut down the deck, and Pox/Smallpox takes Argothian down. Sinkhole/land destruction can also hurt. I think the best bet would be to play as fast as possible game 1, and then on game 2, get a Sacred Ground going and try to rely on your Presences more than Argothian Enchantress.
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Legacy:
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
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:symb::symu::xmana: Tezz Affinity
Can I ask what some of you experienced Enchantress players are using right now? I picked up a bunch of the cards over the past couple of days because this is a fun deck and after proxying up a deck, I've discovered that I really like it. However, before I start picking up too many money cards, I want to make sure I have a good build.
Can I ask what some of you experienced Enchantress players are using right now? I picked up a bunch of the cards over the past couple of days because this is a fun deck and after proxying up a deck, I've discovered that I really like it. However, before I start picking up too many money cards, I want to make sure I have a good build.
I would
-1 City of Solitude
-1 Karmic Justice
-1 Ground seal
Put those extras in your sb
Add 3 to 4 elephant grass. Card is amazing!
Also Island Sanctuary is a decent replacement for Moat. The only problem I have with it, is by the time you can get Island Sanctuary up and running without it hurting you. You can get a Solitary Confinement up and running without it hurting you and Solitary Confinement is better.
Most of Enchantress is tuning it to your meta.
I have read this whole thread and have a few questions about enchantress builds. I noticed that most lists run 2 savannahs and a few run 3, whats the proper number and why not just run 4? Also has Horizon Canopy fallen out of favor and if they are run what is the proper number. Last question, is humilty as a one of a good idea or a silly one?
Thanks for any light you can shed on these questions!
There's not much point in running multiple duals if you run fetches. Enchantress rarely has mana problems. It has Serra's Sanctum to generate all the white you need, and in normal cases more green then white, plus the wild growths. What you don't want is getting 2-for-1'd when the opponent hits with wasteland when you have multiple land auras attached to it. As for Horizon canopy, it can't even be enchanted with Utopia Sprawl, and Enchantress draws so much mid/late-game anyway. As for humility, as people have said before, it kills your Argothian Enchantresses, which kinda slows you down. A lot.
As for Horizon canopy, it can't even be enchanted with Utopia Sprawl, and Enchantress draws so much mid/late-game anyway.
Yep, I don't like Horizon Canopy either. In a meta flooded with Wastelands having Canopy on your start hand is pretty meh; I'd always prefer to have a basic Forest instead.
I also found Leyline of Sanctity to be very useful against decks based on Tendrils.
Lignify is the best answer against Iona IMO because its cheap in cost, can be tutored for, and can be used against a variety of decks because it is pseudo removal against aggro turning that tarmogoyf into a 0/4 treefolk seems good.
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Do they sac a permanent?
Well, Argothian Enchantress is a creature. And Karmic Justice says "...destroys a noncreature permanent you control," so there's your answer.
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symw::symw: Death & Taxes
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Here is my current sideboard:
1x Runed Halo
1x Replenish
4x Mindbreak Trap
4x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Choke
1x Lignify
2x Aura of Silence
Right now I am confidant about the Aura of Silence (to shut down Deed, Explosives and a bunch of other nasty stuff) and I have the traps for combo. What my main debate is about running the 4x Wheel of Sun and Moon. Are these better than Leyline?
My current playgroup has an ANT, a re-animator player and a Dredge player (and I got whooped by the re-animator deck just today, though oddly beat the ANT player 2-0!), and I was thinking that Leyline is much better because it cannot be countered and comes on immediately (really a late Wheel, even Turn 2, doesn't help much). What do you guys think? 4x Leyline over the Wheels? It's where I'm leaning. Any other suggestions re my sideboard. (There's a merfolk deck which I beat comfortably today 2-0, and a Terravore/Seismic land based deck that I also beat 2-0). Others decks that are sometimes played include X lands, charbelcher and faeries.
Also, is it worth it having the Traps for combo? (I never sided in against the ANT player as he took ages to get even close to going off in both games, then ironically went off turn one against another player!).
I'm gonna play at a local legacy event next sunday. Does anyone have any experience with root maze helping against combo? I know, the ANT guys can still draw xx spells with Ad Nauseam, but at least they can't use LED and the like the same turn they play it.
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They can still use LED. It reads: "Sacrifice Lion's Eye Diamond, Discard your hand:." They don't have to tap it to sac. it. Besides, while Root Maze does hit lands/Moxes, they still run 4/4 Dark Ritual/Cabal Ritual, so they can rely on those for the mana the need. If all else fails, a lot of ANT players run Chain of Vapor or some other type of bounce MD/SB.
My suggestions for ANT are Mindbreak Trap/Chalice of the Void. I run 4/4 in my SB to give me at least a fighting chance against Combo.
If you don't have Chalices, the Mindbreak's are a somewhat decent substitute. But rememeber that a lot of ANT players run Orim's Chant and Pact of Negation.
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Thanks for the hint, I see why root maze is useless. I was unlucky to run into two ANT players at the Legacy event yesterday and now I know from my own experience why this MU sucks. Didn't have the slightest chance in 3 of 4 games and while I had my opponent locked during the 4th game with Confinement/Aura/Grove he was digging into his library with Ad Nauseam making me wonder about his solutions. He was down to 1 life when he showed me Reverent Silence
I will definitely try out the Chalices. Sounds like a decent option and maybe I won't be cannon fodder the next time!
I'd figure that Chalice is better because they can always duress your Mindbreak Trap. Plus if you start with Chalice you can deny them all 0CC spells.
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ANT/combo decks are this decks worst MU. You can often do nothing against them save try to get a solitary lock down ASAP or maybe be techy and play children of korlis or some other hate bear like true believer. Runed halo is probably the best card in this MU though and getting it down as fast as possible naming tendrils of agony. Against belcher we have a game and at the same time we don't if they win via goblin charbelcher hitting you for 50 we typically lose unless we have runed halo out on charbelcher. If they go 12 goblins against us we can win very easily via elephant grass since they can attack with at most 2 goblins per turn via LED plus land on board.
Against burn you try to land CoP red or warmth quickly game 2 and game 1 you try to solitary lock them before they kill your. Elephant grass may help if they ever draw a creature like keldon marauders they won't be able to attack without sucking up one of their turns swinging and tapping out to pay for grass. I found this MU to be in their favor though when I played it.
Goblins cries when they face your elephant grass's and solitary lock because they can do nothing preboard. You just have to make sure to keep a hand with either elephant grass or a quick solitary lock to ensure staying alive long enough to lock them out or win. Make sure if you can that lackey doesn't connect turn 2 if you run 2 drop answers to slow them down. 2 cmc removal would be lignify, journey to nowhere, or runed halo on it. Unless you were on the play and could go wild growth T1 then o ring it turn 2.
I have never faced DnT so I know little about that MU.
The rock is a touch MU IMO because if they run land destruction like vindicate or sinkhole they can potentially 2 for 1 you hitting a land with wild growth or utopia sprawl on it. They can also thoughtseize your enchantress away before you can cast it or blow up presence with vindicate if you do cast it. Hymn can wreck you if they run it. Overall a hard MU I think after board bring in replenish.
Reanimator is an interesting MU. In this MU, you MUST land sterling grove ASAP before they reanimate Iona. Because if you accomplish this and you have grove on your side and Iona on their side, you can remove it with lignify if they named white or you can o ring or runed halo it if they named green preferably o ring since you can then play green spells again. Karakas works as well. Ground seal can randomly be a champion against them if they can't get an exhume afterwards although relying solely on ground seal is risky because exhume, if they have it, just blows you out. Postboard bring in more GY hate like ground seal and/or wheel of sun and moon.
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No need for the deck to be stacked or anything. Ad Nauseam'ing with 20 life pretty much guarantees a win. 'cept if you flip your two 4cc spells consecutively, like what happened with David Do Anh at GP Madrid, on the finals.
ANT is hard. My SB has four chalices and a mindbreak trap (because I only own one. I'm after the second, maybe even third.) and I still have nightmares about that MU.
Also I would probably MD choke over karmic justice. Choke is good against so much of the meta it isn't even funny and is a must counter for blue decks. I've found karmic justice to be okay from time to time but in some MUs is meh.
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This is what I was wondering. I glanced at the ANT thread and there are a bunch of people talking about disassembling the deck. Combo is weakened, at least until they can adjust. Even then, it's not going to be at the same level.
The only thing is with the Unbanning of the Grim Monolith we might see some random new deck come out. So, I would watch this. But right now Aggro is going to be very prevailing deck type we stand a good chance.
DV
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Last Friday I lost horribly to BwPox. Is this just a bad match up for Enchantress? I'm asking because I have no experience playing against Pox, but it seems to me like its not in our favor. I play Enchantress, Dreadstill and T.E.S. In a metagame filled with creature decks and some blue control. Recently Pox decks have been showing up. Whats our best SB for Pox?
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Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Death & Taxes is pretty much a bye for Enchantress... Preboard, the only game they have is against your lands. Rishadan Port, Wasteland, and Mangara of Corondor. Post board, Cataclysm comes in, IF they have it, and Ethersworn Canonist might pose a problem. Sterling Grove on the table shuts off anything else they could do to you. Enchantress pretty much renders the entire deck useless.
Vs. Pox: Early disruption/discard can shut down the deck, and Pox/Smallpox takes Argothian down. Sinkhole/land destruction can also hurt. I think the best bet would be to play as fast as possible game 1, and then on game 2, get a Sacred Ground going and try to rely on your Presences more than Argothian Enchantress.
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
:symw::symw: Death & Taxes
:symb::symu::xmana: Tezz Affinity
Right now, I have:
4x Argothian Enchantress
Non-Enchantments:
2x Replenish
1x Enlightened Tutor
Enchantments:
4x Enchantress's Presence
4x Wild Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Sterling Grove
2x City of Solitude
2x Ground Seal
2x Runed Halo
2x Sigil of the Empty Throne
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Solitary Confinement
2x Karmic Justice
1x Words of War
1x Island Sanctuary
2x Savannah
1x Taiga
1x Plateau
2x Serra's Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath
6x Forests
5x Plains
I appreciate the input.
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:symw::symw::symw:Darien:symw::symw::symw:
:symr::symr::symr:Lovisa:symr::symr::symr:
:symu::symw::symg:Rafiq:symu::symw::symg:
:symb::symr::symg:Karrthus:symb::symr::symg:
:symr::symw::symb:Kaalia:symr::symw::symb:
I would
-1 City of Solitude
-1 Karmic Justice
-1 Ground seal
Put those extras in your sb
Add 3 to 4 elephant grass. Card is amazing!
Also Island Sanctuary is a decent replacement for Moat. The only problem I have with it, is by the time you can get Island Sanctuary up and running without it hurting you. You can get a Solitary Confinement up and running without it hurting you and Solitary Confinement is better.
Most of Enchantress is tuning it to your meta.
Thanks for any light you can shed on these questions!
Yep, I don't like Horizon Canopy either. In a meta flooded with Wastelands having Canopy on your start hand is pretty meh; I'd always prefer to have a basic Forest instead.
I also found Leyline of Sanctity to be very useful against decks based on Tendrils.
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