Can anyone please help me beat this MU? I need inputs on what to board in and out against that MU. What lines of play i should prioritize when on the play or on the draw.
Thanks in advance!
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LEGACY:
G Combo Elves G GW Maverick WG GWR Punishing Maverick RWG GWB Dark Maverick BWG RUG RUG Delver GUR UWR Miracles RWU
Walked into my shop today missing 3x Natural Orders. (visions mind you) I take a look in the case and they had three Visions Natual Orders! Bought them immediately! Now I'm apart of the Llanowar. My elves deck is done, it feels sooo nice. Just wanted to say that, that is all. Have a good day.
Do we really need Gaea's Cradle? Every time I've played the deck, I can't find a situation where I require it. I'd prefer to stay away from the Cradle as it is too expensive for what it actually is.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Hey guys. I'm planning on getting this deck together and plan on playing swan songs in the sb. I was just wondering if we could go through a sb plan for only the top decks mostly. It seems hard to make cuts with such a streamlined deck. Anything you guys can suggest will help a lot. Looked on the primer but it appears it's still under construction.
Hey guys. I'm planning on getting this deck together and plan on playing swan songs in the sb. I was just wondering if we could go through a sb plan for only the top decks mostly. It seems hard to make cuts with such a streamlined deck. Anything you guys can suggest will help a lot. Looked on the primer but it appears it's still under construction.
The primer actually makes reference to the official primer on The Source website.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
I'm missing 3 NO before being able to play elves but was just wondering why chord of Calling isn't used?
We're already tapping our creatures for Heritage Druid, using DRS, Llanowar Elf (1 of) for mana. GSZ is just better, and can be used on T1 to get a Dryad Arbor.
We really can't make any cuts for Chord.
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I know what it does, what does it DO?
-Michael Jacob
Do we really need Gaea's Cradle? Every time I've played the deck, I can't find a situation where I require it. I'd prefer to stay away from the Cradle as it is too expensive for what it actually is.
I've been playing Elves for a little while now, and I'll never run less than 4. It's a very expensive card because it's broken.
I get so excited when i can tap Cradle for 4-5, play another one and do it again.
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I know what it does, what does it DO?
-Michael Jacob
So happy. Playing at FNM yesterday, sad cause I got a bye. During that bye, ran into a Vintage Player, look into his collection, and what do I find? 3 Glimpse of Natures, another Craterhoof, and a Progenitus. Needless to say I traded with him and now I only require 1 more Glimpse of Nature and 3 NO and the list is complete. If I may ask, I see many lists running 3 NOs. Does they deck not want 4? Does the deck only want 1 in its hand at any time or that?
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
So happy. Playing at FNM yesterday, sad cause I got a bye. During that bye, ran into a Vintage Player, look into his collection, and what do I find? 3 Glimpse of Natures, another Craterhoof, and a Progenitus. Needless to say I traded with him and now I only require 1 more Glimpse of Nature and 3 NO and the list is complete. If I may ask, I see many lists running 3 NOs. Does they deck not want 4? Does the deck only want 1 in its hand at any time or that?
I have seen lists do both. You dont want NO against a deck that has lots of counter spells for obvious reasons, but you definitely want to see it often against the more fair decks. I personally play four.
Its sad how little action this thread is getting, even after Elves win an SCG Open. A really unconventional list too. He was playing 4 Blood Moons out of the SB which I actually love, but the rest of the list I am really questioning. What do you guys think?
Its sad how little action this thread is getting, even after Elves win an SCG Open. A really unconventional list too. He was playing 4 Blood Moons out of the SB which I actually love, but the rest of the list I am really questioning. What do you guys think?
I myself don't like how he is only running 2 sentinel and 2 heritage in his list. As for the land count being 15, I play 15 lands as well, but for him, 2 of them are dryad arbors, which should not be counted as lands but as creatures. I've noticed elves only needs 10 lands to work efficiently, but so you don't have to muligan often for lands, 15 is the right amount to run. Still unsure if I'd make it 13 lands + 2 arbor though. The rest of the list acts like a toolbox, which is one thing I love about this deck.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Its sad how little action this thread is getting, even after Elves win an SCG Open. A really unconventional list too. He was playing 4 Blood Moons out of the SB which I actually love, but the rest of the list I am really questioning. What do you guys think?
I myself don't like how he is only running 2 sentinel and 2 heritage in his list. As for the land count being 15, I play 15 lands as well, but for him, 2 of them are dryad arbors, which should not be counted as lands but as creatures. I've noticed elves only needs 10 lands to work efficiently, but so you don't have to muligan often for lands, 15 is the right amount to run. Still unsure if I'd make it 13 lands + 2 arbor though. The rest of the list acts like a toolbox, which is one thing I love about this deck.
Yeah I agree on the Druids and sentinels. Seems sketchy at best. I also gate the gitaxian probes. It almost makes zero sense. Would you just rather have more dudes? And just the one of craterhoof feels iffy.
Its sad how little action this thread is getting, even after Elves win an SCG Open. A really unconventional list too. He was playing 4 Blood Moons out of the SB which I actually love, but the rest of the list I am really questioning. What do you guys think?
I myself don't like how he is only running 2 sentinel and 2 heritage in his list. As for the land count being 15, I play 15 lands as well, but for him, 2 of them are dryad arbors, which should not be counted as lands but as creatures. I've noticed elves only needs 10 lands to work efficiently, but so you don't have to muligan often for lands, 15 is the right amount to run. Still unsure if I'd make it 13 lands + 2 arbor though. The rest of the list acts like a toolbox, which is one thing I love about this deck.
Yeah I agree on the Druids and sentinels. Seems sketchy at best. I also gate the gitaxian probes. It almost makes zero sense. Would you just rather have more dudes? And just the one of craterhoof feels iffy.
The Probes I believe were put in their list as to know when to combo off, meaning that there only needed to be one Craterhoof in the list. The probes also help the Cabal Therapy in the sideboard. I agree, I don't like only 1 Craterhoof, if it get's countered of discarded, there's your main win condition thrown out.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
The list he ran I feel had the "Surprise" factor and that was really what pushed it. Moon just wins games and he did well with the deck. I feel though that if you ran the deck with the Moons for a while though, you would find that people would pick it and your "I win" button would in fact just become a Millstone hanging around your neck.
As for the 3 NO in the main, it is because we have a large amount of Draw and having 2 NO in your opener sucks balls. That is why the 4th goes in the side. There are games where you want that 4th copy in your main, but that also is when you bring in more toys too. Ruric Thar being my personal fav.
The list he ran I feel had the "Surprise" factor and that was really what pushed it. Moon just wins games and he did well with the deck. I feel though that if you ran the deck with the Moons for a while though, you would find that people would pick it and your "I win" button would in fact just become a Millstone hanging around your neck.
As for the 3 NO in the main, it is because we have a large amount of Draw and having 2 NO in your opener sucks balls. That is why the 4th goes in the side. There are games where you want that 4th copy in your main, but that also is when you bring in more toys too. Ruric Thar being my personal fav.
The Ruric Thar was terrible (as I had expected). I was unable to find a Wren's Run Packmaster before the event, which I think would have positively affected my Jund matchup and would have won me a game or two over the course of the weekend.
I'll throw a couple ideas into the muck here based on what I've read the last couple of posts.
1. You run Natural Order because it often reads "4 mana: win the game" - the addition of Craterhoof to the deck permits kills out of nowhere. That being said, as Dice_Bag mentioned, you often don't want to see two per game - except against certain matchups where you know it has a game-ending impact irregardless of the board state.
2. You run 4 Cradle because the card is ridiculous and allows you to play Glimpse, Natural Order, and Green Sun's Zenith to their full capacity. I honestly wouldn't consider playing the same build without Cradles. You'd want to modify how you use Glimpse, how you plan to kill your opponent, and how you want to configure your creature suite (you'd probably want a couple Llanowar Elves or something). If you haven't seen a need for Cradle then you probably need to see more hands with the deck.
The list he ran I feel had the "Surprise" factor and that was really what pushed it. Moon just wins games and he did well with the deck. I feel though that if you ran the deck with the Moons for a while though, you would find that people would pick it and your "I win" button would in fact just become a Millstone hanging around your neck.
As for the 3 NO in the main, it is because we have a large amount of Draw and having 2 NO in your opener sucks balls. That is why the 4th goes in the side. There are games where you want that 4th copy in your main, but that also is when you bring in more toys too. Ruric Thar being my personal fav.
The Ruric Thar was terrible (as I had expected). I was unable to find a Wren's Run Packmaster before the event, which I think would have positively affected my Jund matchup and would have won me a game or two over the course of the weekend.
I'll throw a couple ideas into the muck here based on what I've read the last couple of posts.
1. You run Natural Order because it often reads "4 mana: win the game" - the addition of Craterhoof to the deck permits kills out of nowhere. That being said, as Dice_Bag mentioned, you often don't want to see two per game - except against certain matchups where you know it has a game-ending impact irregardless of the board state.
2. You run 4 Cradle because the card is ridiculous and allows you to play Glimpse, Natural Order, and Green Sun's Zenith to their full capacity. I honestly wouldn't consider playing the same build without Cradles. You'd want to modify how you use Glimpse, how you plan to kill your opponent, and how you want to configure your creature suite (you'd probably want a couple Llanowar Elves or something). If you haven't seen a need for Cradle then you probably need to see more hands with the deck.
If you want to stay away from Cradle, I think that's fine. I'm considering just leaving it out until they drop or when the reserved list gets abolished. Works pretty much the same without Cradles.
Dodges Decay, punishing fire and a fair bit of the other removal played. It multiplies on the back of mana, something we have plenty of. It let's you put up a brick wall with Deathtouch and it is a single card must answer to Miracles while also letting us barely commit anything to the board. They will have to Terminus or swords it in the end but until they do you have no reason to over commit. You have an answer all in one package.
The other thing to keep in mind is that she leaves someone behind. Even if the board is wiped, you have something after. It's a good card for some bad matches. Mediocre? No, not really.
Beyond that it's a large spell that doesn't require as much mana as Green Sun Zenithing for a Craterhoof. 5 mana is very attainable for a Green Sun's Zenith, and if you untap with him on board you usually have enough mana to generate two Wolf tokens.
It stonewalls Jund - they have no removal spells that 1 for 1 it and can't attack their Goyfs into Deathtouch Wolves.
As I said in my earlier post; I think Cradle is the backbone of the deck. Without it you're likely going to play your deck differently and should consider rebuilding the deck from scratch to better accommodate that change. I don't doubt that the deck is still powerful without Cradle, but I would imagine you'd see different situations and will sequence your lines differently.
Maybe going back to the older builds with Priest of Titania and a lord or something would be better suited to your manabase.
Beyond that it's a large spell that doesn't require as much mana as Green Sun Zenithing for a Craterhoof. 5 mana is very attainable for a Green Sun's Zenith, and if you untap with him on board you usually have enough mana to generate two Wolf tokens.
It stonewalls Jund - they have no removal spells that 1 for 1 it and can't attack their Goyfs into Deathtouch Wolves.
As I said in my earlier post; I think Cradle is the backbone of the deck. Without it you're likely going to play your deck differently and should consider rebuilding the deck from scratch to better accommodate that change. I don't doubt that the deck is still powerful without Cradle, but I would imagine you'd see different situations and will sequence your lines differently.
Maybe going back to the older builds with Priest of Titania and a lord or something would be better suited to your manabase.
On the Cradle argument, I'm not saying for it to be optimal means you don't need it. I have been using this list without Cradle for quite a while since I cannot afford them (or want to, just not worth the money). I have noticed a few times where a Cradle would be a great way to power through on turn 3-4, but I still get by without problems. I am able to take out 3 opponents at the same time on turn 3 without Cradle nearly every game.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
If you are playing legacy in a multi player setting, I am unsure if any advice I can give will help you since that's not something I do.
Well considering the multiplayer settings I play in, I am always the target, will die on turn 4 if I don't play a deck right, seemed like a good example of the deck. I have played it and against it in a 1v1 setting and it is still broken without Cradles if that's what you are worried about.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
The thing is, of everyone is playing incomplete lists, so deck without Cradle can work. If all your doing is playing at home with friends then no, you don't need it. But if you want to come to a Legacy Tuesday event them you do. It's about knowing your needs. In here, I expect that anyone asking is looking to push then local scene. If it is more of a social thing for you then your needs change and so I think you would be better served asking people that play multi player more.
New to the deck here, I've just finished building it about a week ago. I couldn't decide which splash color to go with, so I just picked three at once and I'll figure out which one(s) I like and which I can drop. Here's the list I'm starting with.
I don't have all four Cradles, but I kind of like a Crop Rotation in place of the fourth anyway. I wouldn't play the deck without any Cradles though, and probably wouldn't play it with any less than two plus two Rotations.
I am debating some changes. Our local Storm player has apparently switched decks, so the Ruric Thar can probably be moved to the board at least. I'm thinking I swap him for Progenitus, then drop one of my Birchlores to move in the other NO from the board. That opens up another sideboard slot, which is probably a second Null Rod. Then at that point, I feel like Ruric and Gaddock Teeg in the board are filling basically the same role and I'm not sure that I need both. We've got a Merfolk player that I get paired against almost every week, and I'm thinking about Hornet Queen for that matchup, but I'm a control player so I suspect I'm thinking too defensive.
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Lately, i've been having problems with BGx decks -- hymn to tourach specifically. BUG Delver is even worse after sideboarding, they have force of will, hymn to tourach, more discards, spot removals, and golgari charms.
Can anyone please help me beat this MU? I need inputs on what to board in and out against that MU. What lines of play i should prioritize when on the play or on the draw.
Thanks in advance!
G Combo Elves G
GW Maverick WG
GWR Punishing Maverick RWG
GWB Dark Maverick BWG
RUG RUG Delver GUR
UWR Miracles RWU
MODERN:
G Coco Elves G
I'm missing 3 NO before being able to play elves but was just wondering why chord of Calling isn't used?
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
The primer actually makes reference to the official primer on The Source website.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
We're already tapping our creatures for Heritage Druid, using DRS, Llanowar Elf (1 of) for mana. GSZ is just better, and can be used on T1 to get a Dryad Arbor.
We really can't make any cuts for Chord.
-Michael Jacob
I've been playing Elves for a little while now, and I'll never run less than 4. It's a very expensive card because it's broken.
I get so excited when i can tap Cradle for 4-5, play another one and do it again.
-Michael Jacob
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
I have seen lists do both. You dont want NO against a deck that has lots of counter spells for obvious reasons, but you definitely want to see it often against the more fair decks. I personally play four.
I myself don't like how he is only running 2 sentinel and 2 heritage in his list. As for the land count being 15, I play 15 lands as well, but for him, 2 of them are dryad arbors, which should not be counted as lands but as creatures. I've noticed elves only needs 10 lands to work efficiently, but so you don't have to muligan often for lands, 15 is the right amount to run. Still unsure if I'd make it 13 lands + 2 arbor though. The rest of the list acts like a toolbox, which is one thing I love about this deck.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Yeah I agree on the Druids and sentinels. Seems sketchy at best. I also gate the gitaxian probes. It almost makes zero sense. Would you just rather have more dudes? And just the one of craterhoof feels iffy.
The Probes I believe were put in their list as to know when to combo off, meaning that there only needed to be one Craterhoof in the list. The probes also help the Cabal Therapy in the sideboard. I agree, I don't like only 1 Craterhoof, if it get's countered of discarded, there's your main win condition thrown out.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
And only three Quirions! Seems strange to me, but I don't play this deck much because I just love playing Lands so much more.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
As for the 3 NO in the main, it is because we have a large amount of Draw and having 2 NO in your opener sucks balls. That is why the 4th goes in the side. There are games where you want that 4th copy in your main, but that also is when you bring in more toys too. Ruric Thar being my personal fav.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
I played at the StarCityGames open in Atlanta this past weekend and saw a Miracles player consciously fetch himself into a corner trying to play around Blood Moon (which his Elves opponent didn't have) - it was quite humorous.
Went 4-0 in the challenge and 7-2 in the main event, for a solid 11-2 weekend.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28572-12th-at-SCG-Atlanta-with-Elves-Making-Poor-Decisions-Work
3 Heritage Druid
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Pendelhaven
4 Gaea's Cradle
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
The Ruric Thar was terrible (as I had expected). I was unable to find a Wren's Run Packmaster before the event, which I think would have positively affected my Jund matchup and would have won me a game or two over the course of the weekend.
I'll throw a couple ideas into the muck here based on what I've read the last couple of posts.
1. You run Natural Order because it often reads "4 mana: win the game" - the addition of Craterhoof to the deck permits kills out of nowhere. That being said, as Dice_Bag mentioned, you often don't want to see two per game - except against certain matchups where you know it has a game-ending impact irregardless of the board state.
2. You run 4 Cradle because the card is ridiculous and allows you to play Glimpse, Natural Order, and Green Sun's Zenith to their full capacity. I honestly wouldn't consider playing the same build without Cradles. You'd want to modify how you use Glimpse, how you plan to kill your opponent, and how you want to configure your creature suite (you'd probably want a couple Llanowar Elves or something). If you haven't seen a need for Cradle then you probably need to see more hands with the deck.
[Developing] 430+ Peasant Cube Thread --- [and on Cube Cobra]
If you want to stay away from Cradle, I think that's fine. I'm considering just leaving it out until they drop or when the reserved list gets abolished. Works pretty much the same without Cradles.
I'm curious, why are people running Wren's Run Packmaster? Seems mediocre to me.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
The other thing to keep in mind is that she leaves someone behind. Even if the board is wiped, you have something after. It's a good card for some bad matches. Mediocre? No, not really.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
It stonewalls Jund - they have no removal spells that 1 for 1 it and can't attack their Goyfs into Deathtouch Wolves.
As I said in my earlier post; I think Cradle is the backbone of the deck. Without it you're likely going to play your deck differently and should consider rebuilding the deck from scratch to better accommodate that change. I don't doubt that the deck is still powerful without Cradle, but I would imagine you'd see different situations and will sequence your lines differently.
Maybe going back to the older builds with Priest of Titania and a lord or something would be better suited to your manabase.
[Developing] 430+ Peasant Cube Thread --- [and on Cube Cobra]
On the Cradle argument, I'm not saying for it to be optimal means you don't need it. I have been using this list without Cradle for quite a while since I cannot afford them (or want to, just not worth the money). I have noticed a few times where a Cradle would be a great way to power through on turn 3-4, but I still get by without problems. I am able to take out 3 opponents at the same time on turn 3 without Cradle nearly every game.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Birchlore Rangers
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Fyndhorn Elves
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Natural Order
1 Crop Rotation
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
3 Gaea's Cradle
4 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Null Rod
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Progenitus
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Natural Order
I don't have all four Cradles, but I kind of like a Crop Rotation in place of the fourth anyway. I wouldn't play the deck without any Cradles though, and probably wouldn't play it with any less than two plus two Rotations.
I am debating some changes. Our local Storm player has apparently switched decks, so the Ruric Thar can probably be moved to the board at least. I'm thinking I swap him for Progenitus, then drop one of my Birchlores to move in the other NO from the board. That opens up another sideboard slot, which is probably a second Null Rod. Then at that point, I feel like Ruric and Gaddock Teeg in the board are filling basically the same role and I'm not sure that I need both. We've got a Merfolk player that I get paired against almost every week, and I'm thinking about Hornet Queen for that matchup, but I'm a control player so I suspect I'm thinking too defensive.