I think it depends on how much graveyard hate you expect to see in your environment. If there isn't much, you don't really need Show, but I think graveyard hate is pretty common. I ran three.
Hello all, First time posting in this thread.
I have not seen anyone talk about the new Black/Red ver. of Reanimator that seems to have become popular. Wanted to get other peoples thoughts on it, as I can build it and I only need to get the Badlands for it.
Wondering if this is the correct thread for it or if it is going in another one (I didn't find it if there is one.)
It looks like the non-blue variant trades consistency for speed. I'd venture to guess it is growing in popularity because the price of the cards is reduced.
If glass cannon decks appeal to you, i'd say give it a try. I prefer consistency myself. I posted a general shell for a mono-black variant as well, somewhere in the preceding pages... if you want a budget glass cannon reanimator
Thought I'd drop in and show you my deck I've been working on for a casual group of players.
Cost is obviously a factor.
Let me know what you think. I've been really struggling with the balance between creatures, discard, and reanimate but I think I have it pretty good now.
I have also been swapping creatures in and out like crazy. Just need to decide what to use.
Hi censr!
You may have better luck posting on the budget or casual sections on the forum, as most users on this thread are generally more familiar with competitive cards.
Couple things though: 1. I would suggest running something like merfolk looter. 2. Don't run brainstorm if you don't have any fetchlands. 3. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is a great target for your list/budget.
That is not traditional Reanimator, it's the new flavor, BR Reanimator. They play Unmask because they can't play Force of Will. As a natural consequence, the black card count is higher.
You really need a card like Unmask because you need a free discard spell to be faster than the opponent and reanimate at 1st turn. I used to play 4x Thoughtseize and 3x Collective Brutality but now that I've tried 4x Unmask I can't go back! Unmask is great also when you draw 7/14 cards with Griselbrand and you have free discard spells.Give them a try and you will not regret!
Just to be clear for anyone that still didn't get it, unmask is meant to be used on yourself, not on the opponent. It allows for something like turn one unmask yourself discarding fatty, use land for turn on reanimate. And yes, it is for the b/r version. I love sire of insanity btw.
Ok, so I have a serious question. Why does the current all-in variant go red instead of blue? Specifically, I'm looking at the GP Louisville list that eschews any red sideboard cards.
When the Rakdos version first started up, it was running various things in the board, like blood moon, pyroclasm, etc. that took advantage of the red splash. However, looking at this list, it is clear that the pilot was worried about specific hate and boarded answers to it and didn't use the red splash at all. Namely:
Now, if this is the case, why not splash blue instead? In his recent article on channel fireball, Bob Huang said he basically doesn't like either silence or decay, the former because he would rather rely on a show and tell effect, and the latter because it diluted the deck. At that point, wouldn't it be easier and more consistent on the mana to switch faithless looting to careful study and just put show and tell and a bounce effect in the board? Maybe a couple dispels to fight counters and the random swords? Here's what I'm thinking:
Main board exactly like the linked deck with the proposed looting/study swap (it really is quite optimal. goldfishes like a beast). You would also switch the badlands with underground sea and cut the bayou for the 4th polluted delta
Perhaps chain of vapor needs to be echoing truth to deal with chalice of the void on 1, or multiple leyline of the void or ensnaring bridge (though you should be fast enough to avoid multiples of anything other than leyline). You are also forced to use vapor before you drop a fatty since they can sac a land and bounce it (the oft forgotten downside of chain of vapor), though I'm ok with that if the gameplan is to stay fast. Interesting synergy: bounce effects let you reanimate a grave titan, bounce it and show and tell it for extra zombies. Dispel is also questionable, as discard should be enough to force your combo through, and while it helps against swords, you should be relying on things like inkwell leviathan and grave titan. I'm gonna give this a whirl and see what happens.
Edit: went 2 show and tell, 2 daze, 1 dispel last minute before joining a league. daze is bonkers, but doesn't do the same as dispel, which is nice anti surgical/trap hate. it's been nice to have access to this and don't really miss the red version tbh. Possibly cut a grave titan for extra space?
Edit: so in just about any position I would want chain of vapor, show and tell would be better. might be right to just run 4 show and tell. dispel vs daze is still out, but oddly enough flusterstorm actually sounds like the answer!.
Alright, after a league and a few games, I got a sense of what was going on. It was important to learn how to sideboard and how much of your gy combo you take out. this is the sideboard I ended up on. It feels strong.
The traditional fatties of Elesh norn, Iona, and tidespout tyrant I think are lacking here. For one, I'd almost always just want to get a griselbrand anyway. I chose these four.
Ashen Rider - while you don't need to answer gy hate anymore with show and tell, permanents like ensnaring bridge are still a thing and this helps. Not to mention it's great against show and tell
Terastodon - seems good against random permanents you might want to answer. Also seems great on turn three as a show and tell going all in by blowing up your own lands...might just want to be another ashen rider
Whether I run Rakdos or Dimir reanimator, I always go 1-2 in my MUs because of graveyard hate. I don't think I quite understand what games 2 and 3 look like post-sideboard. Essentially we sideboard against sideboards it seems, but I have no idea what gets cut. A little guidance?
Whether you use anti-gy hate, or show and tell (which I think is just a must if you run blue), the key is patience and using counters or discard to deal with their gy hate (though as with everything in Magic, you gotta know when you should just go for it)
Especially if you are boarding into show and tell, you can really shave a lot on the reanimation and entomb. If you are just boarding into anti-hate, you gotta board a little lighter and your play is usually to try and go off all on one turn. Hoard cards for a few turns and when you have your anti-hate, cast it, and then proceed to discard/reanimate.
Remember that if you are playing against abrupt decay, you should board out your animate dead first to not get blown out. Shave some exhume against decks that may have creatures in the gy from you killing them, particularly hate creatures (baleful strix is the worst, ugh). You probably never board out reanimate, but it can be rough against delver on the draw if they are able to put the pressure on quick
Winning game 1 is key so mulligan aggressively, that way you can use game 2 to figure out what their hate is and board accordingly for game 3. You gotta balance going off too early and not having mana up to defend against surgical, ravenous trap or faerie macabre, but not too late and get hosed by multiple permanent hate.
I came to these conclusions after analyzing why I was losing games. There were two glaring reasons
-Getting raced to the point where one big fatty blocking wouldn't be enough
-Removal on my fatty
I was definitely wrong about elesh norn and iona, but I still think tyrant is not the best. Unlike the Dimir version, there were a lot of times I was basically hellbent after dropping tyrant, and i was not able to bounce much, then it would get plowed, dismembered, or even bolt bolt. It always seemed better to have elesh norn and at least clear the board. That's why she gets the maindeck nod.
Iona just proved to be the best answer to removal and is just great against Miracles naming white.
Ashen Rider is just a great card against show and tell and the mirror, but it can also serve as an answer to whatever your opponent dropped if you show and tell. Also good against Karakas, which is not as relevant since we run maindeck Chancellor, but this can actually exile it to open the way to a legendary if need be.
Sigarda might be a bit cute, but I have found myself in spots where it is just the best thing I can do against a black deck.
Swan song came in because flusterstorm was lackluster against discard, particularly (It's usually the first play of their turn and can pay for the tax). Song is just awesome for the meta right now and counters counterbalance and Rest in Peace, which is nice. You are a bit cold to artifacts, but your plan is to show and tell there.
I like that with this build you can shave your gy plan aggressively and sit back to pick apart their hand and counter discard until you can either find an opening to discard/reanimate or just show and tell through hate. That you can still just randomly turn 1 or 2 like usual (with show and tell even!) is icing.
I chose to build and play reanimator, but didn't realize how hard it hinges upon your opening hand. I've noticed in my 2 decades of playing magic that my weakest attribute in playing Magic is knowing when to keep and when to mulligan. Can someone give me some direction on what is the minimum keepable hand and what a crazy opener looks like?
Caveat: I haven't played Legacy in a while, so I'd really like others to weigh in.
I don't know what the minimum is, and it certainly depends on matchup and whether you're on the play or the draw. I know I've mulled to 5 (pre-Vancouver mulligan rule) on the play and still won the game.
*What* you want to keep depends on matchup and how you've built your deck. I personally played u/b reanimator with FoWs and the like, but I see there are other versions around now. A 'crazy opener' might have a clear path to reanimating a deadly threat (i.e. Entomb, Exhume, two lands), but those looks can be deceiving if your opponent plays much disruption (people might play Thoughtseize or countermagic).
Yeah, I gave the Br reanimator a shot and while it is explosive, it seems to suffer that exact scenario regarding disruption. It has very little "plan B" options if you don't draw a nut hand AND get away with it, unlike UB which allows you some control and deck manipulation.
UB just seems better to me, I could be wrong, but it does.
Hi everyone - I wanted to know if someone would be so kind and write some general sideboarding advice for the current BR reanimator lists (against common legacy matchups).
I am especially curious what people take out from the deck while sideboarding (I always have difficulty with this).
Any advice would be greatly appreciated & thanks in advance!!
Game 3: hit the dream hand, Land, 2 x ritual, Grisel, Collective brutality, exhume, Chancellor
Reveal Chancellor
Play Land
Cast Ritual (go to 3B) Cast Collective brutality pitching Grisel & Chancellor(go to 1B) he reveals no forces which suprises me but has GY hate so that's why he keeps i guess
Cast Ritual
Cast Exhume for Grisel
activate Grisel, find a reanimate and bring in the chancellor.
OPP folds.
How did you escalate twice with no creature in play?
Nice report. I'm also thinking of bringing that to GP Vegas but let's see what Amonkhet has in store first (probably nothing, but it's a graveyard set so who knows..).
I was under the impression that due to it being an additional cost on casting that the -2/-2 part of the spell just fizzles and as the card was sacked as part of the cost you don't get it back. I could be completely wrong as CB is a completely new card to me.
You can't use the -2/-2 ability, if there are no targets.
To add to your list: Against Death and Taxes, Iona on white, Elesh Norn, and Sire of Insanity can be very good. Just be weary of cards such as Karakas and Aether Vial (Flickerwisp tricks). If your opponent has Karakas up, then Elesh Norn is arguably the best option because right when Norn hits play all of their creatures will get hit with the -2/-2 effect and DnT sometimes has a very difficult time recovering from such things. However if Karakas is not up, then Iona can just close out the game right away. Sire of Insanity on the other hand abuses DnT's lack of a card advantage engine.
Also for all who may be interested, we've just made a post inspired by Legacy Reanimator. It's not really a deck tech, but it is a fictional story that tries to embody the overall theme of a Reanimator deck. Hope you guys like it! http://sylvanstudies.com/2017/04/07/sylvan-stories-reanimator/
Here's a good tip from someone who has played both: play the UB version.
RB version's worst MU is drawing your opening hand. Seriously. I lost more games because I had to mulligan down too far because my hand was abysmal than those that I lost due to other factors. Just play the UB version.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UBR
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http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
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I have not seen anyone talk about the new Black/Red ver. of Reanimator that seems to have become popular. Wanted to get other peoples thoughts on it, as I can build it and I only need to get the Badlands for it.
Wondering if this is the correct thread for it or if it is going in another one (I didn't find it if there is one.)
Thanks!
If glass cannon decks appeal to you, i'd say give it a try. I prefer consistency myself. I posted a general shell for a mono-black variant as well, somewhere in the preceding pages... if you want a budget glass cannon reanimator
Thought I'd drop in and show you my deck I've been working on for a casual group of players.
Cost is obviously a factor.
Let me know what you think. I've been really struggling with the balance between creatures, discard, and reanimate but I think I have it pretty good now.
I have also been swapping creatures in and out like crazy. Just need to decide what to use.
Thoughts?!?!?!?!?
Instant (10)
Enchantment
Sorcery (16)
Creature (10)
Land (20)
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/28-12-16-reanimater/
I could use a second set of eyes on this if anyone is out there
2x Brainstorm
2x Careful Consideration
2x Daze
2x Frantic Search
2x Swan Song
4x Careful Study
4x Exhume
2x Ideas Unbound
1x Mind Bomb
4x Ponder
2x Inkwell Leviathan
3x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
2x Terastodon
11x Island
10x Swamp
You may have better luck posting on the budget or casual sections on the forum, as most users on this thread are generally more familiar with competitive cards.
Couple things though: 1. I would suggest running something like merfolk looter. 2. Don't run brainstorm if you don't have any fetchlands. 3. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is a great target for your list/budget.
Peace
Just to be clear for anyone that still didn't get it, unmask is meant to be used on yourself, not on the opponent. It allows for something like turn one unmask yourself discarding fatty, use land for turn on reanimate. And yes, it is for the b/r version. I love sire of insanity btw.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=14415&d=286247&f=LE
When the Rakdos version first started up, it was running various things in the board, like blood moon, pyroclasm, etc. that took advantage of the red splash. However, looking at this list, it is clear that the pilot was worried about specific hate and boarded answers to it and didn't use the red splash at all. Namely:
4 reverent silence
3 abrupt decay
Main board exactly like the linked deck with the proposed looting/study swap (it really is quite optimal. goldfishes like a beast). You would also switch the badlands with underground sea and cut the bayou for the 4th polluted delta
sideboard
2 dispel
2 chain of vapor
4 collective brutality
4 extra fatties
Perhaps chain of vapor needs to be echoing truth to deal with chalice of the void on 1, or multiple leyline of the void or ensnaring bridge (though you should be fast enough to avoid multiples of anything other than leyline). You are also forced to use vapor before you drop a fatty since they can sac a land and bounce it (the oft forgotten downside of chain of vapor), though I'm ok with that if the gameplan is to stay fast. Interesting synergy: bounce effects let you reanimate a grave titan, bounce it and show and tell it for extra zombies. Dispel is also questionable, as discard should be enough to force your combo through, and while it helps against swords, you should be relying on things like inkwell leviathan and grave titan. I'm gonna give this a whirl and see what happens.
Edit: went 2 show and tell, 2 daze, 1 dispel last minute before joining a league. daze is bonkers, but doesn't do the same as dispel, which is nice anti surgical/trap hate. it's been nice to have access to this and don't really miss the red version tbh. Possibly cut a grave titan for extra space?
Edit: so in just about any position I would want chain of vapor, show and tell would be better. might be right to just run 4 show and tell. dispel vs daze is still out, but oddly enough flusterstorm actually sounds like the answer!.
4 Show and Tell
3 Flusterstorm
4 Fatties
Ashen Rider - while you don't need to answer gy hate anymore with show and tell, permanents like ensnaring bridge are still a thing and this helps. Not to mention it's great against show and tell
Terastodon - seems good against random permanents you might want to answer. Also seems great on turn three as a show and tell going all in by blowing up your own lands...might just want to be another ashen rider
sigarda, host of herons - Liliana hate, honestly. Is good against annihilator too, right?
inkwell leviathan - I actually liked this a lot against miracles.
Especially if you are boarding into show and tell, you can really shave a lot on the reanimation and entomb. If you are just boarding into anti-hate, you gotta board a little lighter and your play is usually to try and go off all on one turn. Hoard cards for a few turns and when you have your anti-hate, cast it, and then proceed to discard/reanimate.
Remember that if you are playing against abrupt decay, you should board out your animate dead first to not get blown out. Shave some exhume against decks that may have creatures in the gy from you killing them, particularly hate creatures (baleful strix is the worst, ugh). You probably never board out reanimate, but it can be rough against delver on the draw if they are able to put the pressure on quick
Collective Brutality is a particularly good card because it hoses the best overall card against you (containment priest) and the two best gy hate cards against you (deathrite shaman and surgical extraction)
Winning game 1 is key so mulligan aggressively, that way you can use game 2 to figure out what their hate is and board accordingly for game 3. You gotta balance going off too early and not having mana up to defend against surgical, ravenous trap or faerie macabre, but not too late and get hosed by multiple permanent hate.
Update to my Rakdos/Dimir hybrid list:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite too strong. Can't doubt.
I have found swan song to be a better card than flusterstorm and tuned my creature counts.
List is just like linked above (I post the relevant part below) except an additional change is elesh norn for tidespout tyrant.
Sideboard is now
4 Collective Brutality
4 Swan Song
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Ashen Rider
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
I came to these conclusions after analyzing why I was losing games. There were two glaring reasons
-Getting raced to the point where one big fatty blocking wouldn't be enough
-Removal on my fatty
I was definitely wrong about elesh norn and iona, but I still think tyrant is not the best. Unlike the Dimir version, there were a lot of times I was basically hellbent after dropping tyrant, and i was not able to bounce much, then it would get plowed, dismembered, or even bolt bolt. It always seemed better to have elesh norn and at least clear the board. That's why she gets the maindeck nod.
Iona just proved to be the best answer to removal and is just great against Miracles naming white.
Ashen Rider is just a great card against show and tell and the mirror, but it can also serve as an answer to whatever your opponent dropped if you show and tell. Also good against Karakas, which is not as relevant since we run maindeck Chancellor, but this can actually exile it to open the way to a legendary if need be.
Sigarda might be a bit cute, but I have found myself in spots where it is just the best thing I can do against a black deck.
Swan song came in because flusterstorm was lackluster against discard, particularly (It's usually the first play of their turn and can pay for the tax). Song is just awesome for the meta right now and counters counterbalance and Rest in Peace, which is nice. You are a bit cold to artifacts, but your plan is to show and tell there.
I like that with this build you can shave your gy plan aggressively and sit back to pick apart their hand and counter discard until you can either find an opening to discard/reanimate or just show and tell through hate. That you can still just randomly turn 1 or 2 like usual (with show and tell even!) is icing.
4) . some decks play one scrubland instead of the bayou. this gives you versatility of 4 x wear / tear in sideboard
.
I don't know what the minimum is, and it certainly depends on matchup and whether you're on the play or the draw. I know I've mulled to 5 (pre-Vancouver mulligan rule) on the play and still won the game.
*What* you want to keep depends on matchup and how you've built your deck. I personally played u/b reanimator with FoWs and the like, but I see there are other versions around now. A 'crazy opener' might have a clear path to reanimating a deadly threat (i.e. Entomb, Exhume, two lands), but those looks can be deceiving if your opponent plays much disruption (people might play Thoughtseize or countermagic).
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
UB just seems better to me, I could be wrong, but it does.
I am especially curious what people take out from the deck while sideboarding (I always have difficulty with this).
Any advice would be greatly appreciated & thanks in advance!!
How did you escalate twice with no creature in play?
Nice report. I'm also thinking of bringing that to GP Vegas but let's see what Amonkhet has in store first (probably nothing, but it's a graveyard set so who knows..).
You can't use the -2/-2 ability, if there are no targets.
Also for all who may be interested, we've just made a post inspired by Legacy Reanimator. It's not really a deck tech, but it is a fictional story that tries to embody the overall theme of a Reanimator deck. Hope you guys like it!
http://sylvanstudies.com/2017/04/07/sylvan-stories-reanimator/
What are the RB version's good/bad matchups? And are there any resources other than gold fishing and this forum that you recommend to learn the deck?
RB version's worst MU is drawing your opening hand. Seriously. I lost more games because I had to mulligan down too far because my hand was abysmal than those that I lost due to other factors. Just play the UB version.