When countering ritual effects, catching misplays if very effective. This info mostly applies to decks that run Daze.
Scenario 1:
1.) Storm player can produce RB with lands and has Dark Ritual and Rite of Flame in hand.
2.) Storm player casts Dark Ritual, you Daze and they pay 1.
3.) They can't cast Rite of Flame and only net BBB.
Scenario 2:
1.) Storm player can produce RB with lands and has Dark Ritual and Rite of Flame in hand.
2.) Storm player casts Rite of Flame, you Daze and in response they play Dark Ritual.
3.) They net RRBB.
This matters a lot on the combo turn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing:
Standard UGRB Emerge
Modern U Tron
Legacy UWBRG The E.P.I.C. Storm
Mindbreak Trap is a horrible hate card. Even with discard or chant effects, it's extremely easy to play around. Turn 1, drop artifact mana. Turn 2, IT -> Ad Nauseam. I'm sure a discard effect will be in the 20 or so cards I draw. You really want hate cards that actually stop you from casting the "I win" spells. Teeg, Cannonist, and more countermagic / discard is the way to go.
Also someone explain to me what the difference between ANT and TES actually is, if there even is one.
TES is technically a 5 color deck. We play gold lands with very few duals. We have red as a color for Rite of Flame and Burning Wish where AnT is usually only UB using Dark Ritual and Cabal Ritual as mana acceleration, and 12 cantrips in Ponder, Brainstorm, and Preordain. It also plays more duals/basics than we do. AnT focuses more on using Ad Nauseam to combo off and win as quickly as possible where TES chooses when it goes off because we have protection in Orim's Chant/Silence/Duress.
Now ANT isn't faster than TES, neither is it slower, since our mana is slower but stronger. ( rite of flame vs cabal ritual)
With my personal experience with these decks I find TES to be faster than ANT. I'm not the only one to think this, but TES is A LOT harder to pilot than ANT, which I have no doubt can give the appearence of it being slower than it is. I still, after years of playing TES, have trouble with it. I probably don't play it as much as I should (mainly cause I can't find it I am loving my merfolk deck in the mean time though).
As for the comment of rite of flame vs cabal ritual, my TES deck runs both along with other mana excel.
Most TES decks are usually 5 colors. Mostly 4 colors main and the 5th being in the SB. Just look at the fist post. You are correct on ANT being mostly 2 colors though. I have seen some 3 color ones around though. Mainly splashing red for wish.
Very insightful, thanks for clearing that up.
But is the difference big enough that you would class the two as different archtypes? They are basicly trying to do the same thing ?
Yes.
TES and ANT are built very differently. Chants/Discard/Swarm/Burning Wish vs. a more stable manabase/IGG loop/etc.
Very insightful, thanks for clearing that up.
But is the difference big enough that you would class the two as different archtypes? They are basicly trying to do the same thing ?
tldr; is at the bottom
For what it's worth, both decks are considered ANT when it comes to Wizard's event coverage.
But they are different enough to have distinguished names. I know it's already been touched on, but I'll take a stab at it, too.
Just thought I'd post my 3rd place list from a 26-man tournament yesterday. First time playing this deck in a sanctioned event, so I wasn't sure what to expect, but I ended up beating a more experienced Storm player once in the Swiss and again in the top 8, so not too bad I guess.
So pretty stock list, I guess, except for the sideboard. The 4 Thoughtseizes were amazing all day. I'd like to cut maybe 2 bounce spells for Xantid Swarms or more Chants. Not sure on that one though.
My overall impression of the deck is that when the deck runs well, it runs really well. There were a few Storm players in the 0-X bracket, which makes me a little uneasy about taking this deck to Richmond next weekend, but I'm not sure whether that was due to playskill or matchups or whatever.
In any case, I would like some input on the sideboard mostly. Thanks.
3) what would a good ratio of duress/chant effects be both main and sideboard?
any feedback on these topics would be much appreciated because i am trying to get into playing combo in legacy in addition to my less than stellar goblin and burn decks
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(Banner courtesy of spiderboy from Highlight Studios)
I have begun a quest to amass a collection of bazaar traders and any donations would be greatly appreciated
bazaar trader count: 115 including;1 portugese foil; 7 english foils; 4 russian nonfoils
Volkan Baga should do a chrome mox art
@loolrus and (other users but mainly about his list):
i like your list for the most part but being a new player to TES i have a few questions
1) how many chrome mox is normally run in TES?
Seems to me that you either go 4 Chrome Mox and 13 land or 3 Chrome Mox and 14 land. I chose to go with the latter because in my (limited) experience, Chrome Mox is very inconsistent. It seems to be a necessary evil, but drawing multiples is awkward to say the least.
I believe that Ill-Gotten Gains vs. Empty in the maindeck is personal preference. Ad Nauseam seems to be in everyone's maindeck. As far as I can tell, Empty is less situational than IGG, but I could be wrong.
3) what would a good ratio of duress/chant effects be both main and sideboard?
I like 4 chants in the main, it seems like the right number. Honestly, I think 8 protection spells is correct in this format. If survival gets banned and blue decks become more dominant again, then more would obviously be better.
As far as the sideboard goes, I often see people playing just 1 protection spell as a wish target. However, these lists often have 3 Pyroblast in the board, which I think is definitely suboptimal right now, given that Counterbalance decks are a lot less prevalent. Thoughtseize usually is just as good as Blast at hitting a counterspell, and also hits hate bears.
Take these answers with a grain of salt as I just started playing the deck, but any opinion helps, I guess.
well thank you for your help
i have been doing a little research on this and other threads since my post yesterday and your answers seem consistent with the general idea i have been seeing in elsewhere
also i have noticed your list is extremely close to bryant cook's current version of TES
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(Banner courtesy of spiderboy from Highlight Studios)
I have begun a quest to amass a collection of bazaar traders and any donations would be greatly appreciated
bazaar trader count: 115 including;1 portugese foil; 7 english foils; 4 russian nonfoils
Volkan Baga should do a chrome mox art
What does everyone here think about 1x Telemin Performance in the board? It's the best possible wish target for the Landstill and mirror matches. I'll probably test it out this weekend and let you all know if it was good enough to be worth including.
What does everyone here think about 1x Telemin Performance in the board? It's the best possible wish target for the Landstill and mirror matches. I'll probably test it out this weekend and let you all know if it was good enough to be worth including.
I'd hardly say that. It's a non-storm win-condition requiring multiple blue (lloking at you, LED), which would require the same amount of protection to force through against landstill. Couple that with the fact that most landstill builds are running canonists out of the board and you've got one sub-par-sideboard card. Against TES the game will, 99% of the time, come down to who drew more disruption. If you have enough mana and protection to win off of wish=> telemin, you could probably win some other way that didn't require a dedicated card, though an "oops I win" button might be useful sometimes.
Very much not worth the slot in an already super tight board.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from "Warden" »
rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
I'd hardly say that. It's a non-storm win-condition requiring multiple blue (lloking at you, LED), which would require the same amount of protection to force through against landstill. Couple that with the fact that most landstill builds are running canonists out of the board and you've got one sub-par-sideboard card. Against TES the game will, 99% of the time, come down to who drew more disruption. If you have enough mana and protection to win off of wish=> telemin, you could probably win some other way that didn't require a dedicated card, though an "oops I win" button might be useful sometimes.
Very much not worth the slot in an already super tight board.
Definitely fair points. Also, how often is the Diminishing Returns and pray plan better than the Empty the Warrens plan? A card that costs 6 total mana and doesn't win you the game seems bad to me.
Here's the sideboard I was thinking of running (maindeck being the above list -1 Fetch/City of Brass {haven't decided} +1 Tropical Island):
As for Telemin Performance, I know that in testing and in sanctioned matches, I have had situations in the mirror match where I have had Burning Wish, Lion's Eye Diamond, and enough mana to wish for a 5 mana spell (obviously staring at my Wish and trying to turn it into an Infernal Tutor), and not being able to get the kill that turn. That is, not enough cards to storm for Tendrils of Agony, not wanting to risk having to wait and attack with Empty the Warrens tokens, or them having an Orim's Chant effect in their graveyard and the mana to cast it, rendering Ill-Gotten Gains useless.
In order for Telemin Performance to kill a Landstill player, the following things have to happen:
-You must have 3UU after a Burning Wish (probably through Lion's Eye Diamond).
-You must actually resolve Performance itself. The important thing to note here is that if Burning Wish resolved, they most likely do not have a counterspell, as Burning Wish is usually the optimal card to counter in your spell chain. Obviously this is not a worry if you have a Chant effect.
-Your opponent must not have any creatures in their 60 cards. I ran Landstill briefly and I at least considered including Vendilion Clique in my 75, so I do not really know how to approach this problem. I do know that 100% of the top 8 Landstill lists I have seen contain no creatures, but losing a game in this way would be embarrassing.
Since Landstill runs 3-4 Pernicious Deed maindeck (that they are likely not siding out), Empty the Warrens is an extremely unreliable kill condition past turn 1. Additionally, their counterspell count is extremely high, so Ill-Gotten Gains tends to be bad unless you have already resolved a Chant effect. This means, of course, that if you have Burning Wish (as opposed to Infernal Tutor), you have no way to consistently win if you cannot naturally generate 10 storm. I already went over how you can have no good Wish targets available when playing against Storm.
So Telemin Performance gives us a good Wish target when we would not have one against two reasonably popular Legacy decks. At the Richmond Legacy Open, I am expecting about 10% of the field to be Storm and about 2% of the field to be Landstill (let me know if you think these numbers are way off). I am convinced that this card is good against those two decks, but not sure whether 12% of the field is enough to dedicate a sideboard slot. This is the main point that I would like input on.
Assuming I do not run the Telemin Performance, the last sideboard slot will probably be Xantid Swarm. In my experience, many blue decks (especially Fish-style decks) cannot beat a resolved Xantid Swarm post sideboard, since they will probably not have any removal left in their deck. I am wary of running the full set of them though, since drawing multiples is pretty much the worst of the worst.
Any criticism of this sideboard is appreciated, and any criticism of my discussion of the 15th slot is even more so. I think that my maindeck is very close to optimal, which means that much of my success or failure on Sunday will be as a result of my choices in the sideboard.
tl;dr- Tell me what you would change about my sideboard.
Just for reference, here's what I've been messing around with (stole from Bryant some months ago) :
11 set-in-stone
1 Tendrils
1 IGG
1 ETW
1 Grapeshot
1 Thoughtseize
1 Shattering Spree
1 Diminishing Returns (needed as a storm option off wish for aggro, trust me)
1 Krosan Grip
1 Wipe Away
2 Echoing Truth
4 meta-slot
anything from extra copies of ETW or xantid swarms can come in, that's a "day of" choice. Vindicate or eye of nowhere may take an extra wish slot.
I don't really see siding in thoughtseizes doing much out of the board and I think your removal package is a bit unnecessary, as far as vastness of options go. You're better off being able to kill in more situations in my experience.
Is your MB standard?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from "Warden" »
rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
Heh! I just feel in love with the deck on Nov 14th when Mtgpulse put it on their website I had (still have) a Doomsday Isle deck but it needed a better core.... your deck list makes it an alternate win-con in the SB, it's awesome!
I'm getting the cards to build it wit ha smallish change in the SB (Krosan Grip x2, chain of vapor x1 and echoing truth x1).
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature. - Maximillian Cohen.
Iggy-loop is the chain of spells you use to get to a safe 10 storm.
Example:
in play 2 lands, on hand a ritual, LED, LED, infernal tutor.
You'll have to count storm but here's how it goes:
LED (1)=> LED (2) => Ritual (3) BBB float => infernal tutor sac both LED's (4) 7 black float => search ill-gotten gains, cast ill-gotten gains (5) 3 black mana, 1 land untapped aka 4 mana => return LED,LED, infernal tutor. cast LED 4 black mana left (6) => cast LED (7) => cast infernal tutor (8), sac both LEDS (8 mana floating) => search infernal cast infernal(9) (6 mana floating)=> infernal tutor search infernal or tendrils and cast it (storm 10 or 11 if you go for an infernal more).
target opponent:
in short LED=>LED=>ritual=>infernal tutor=>ill-gotten gains=>LED=>LED=>infernal tutor=> infernal tutor=> tendrils
I too appreciate the info on the IGG loop! Being a new TES player (only been playing it for 3 days, no tournaments yet) I was a bit confused by how the IGG loop worked and that helped explain it quite well. The one thing I'm still wondering about though is how you loop with IGG in the sideboard with Burning Wish? I see the deck list in the original post runs IGG in the board as a Wish target but I'm still a bit confused about how you'd loop with it since unlike Infernal Tutor you have to remove Burning Wish from the game after it's been used, making you unable to nab it back with IGG.
Any insight on this?
You need an infernal tutor in the yard or in your hand to IGG loop. Except for those rare corner cases where an opponent makes you discard b. wish or one of your wishes gets countered thus leaving you able to retrieve it from the GY with IGG to grab tendrils from your SB. But infernal is almost always better for IGG looping.
To IGG loop you wish for the IGG typically the turn before you go off unless you have a god hand with multiple LEDs or something involved then you start the spell chain and go off next turn typically. Make sure you'll have enough storm count though before you do so; not having enough storm to kill them is very bad typically even though gaining 16 life or something will hold the opponent off for a few turns depending on board state you can go all the way to 38 life and have merfolk kill you in 4 turns with lord support.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
started to play legacy and i decided to try a TES deck (knew it is hard to pilot)... and i like it a lot...first i "killed" myself by making mistakes which costed me the game...but i goldfished a lot and played against all possible opponents... and a got better and better...now i usually dont loose because of a mistake... usually...
but i have huge problem to make a good sideboard..and to know what to take in and out against some decks... at my group there are two merfolks-decks, one dreadstill, one feariecontrol-deck and one enchantress-deck..
This is my deck:
Lands (14)
4x Gemstone Mine
3x City of Brass
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Underground Sea
1x Badlands
1x Volcanic Island
Mana-source (19)
4x Dark Ritual
4x Rite of Flame
3x Chrome Mox
4x Lion`s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Pedal
ok.. i take out the grapeshot...i was wondering anyway if i could ever really need/use it ...i used it once and then it was not really needed..
i put in a thoughtseize...thoes it really make sens to wish for a thoughtseize?
About the krosan grip and the chain...what would you suggest? 2x chains and no grip...or what? or one more shattering spree cause a calice on one kills me...
I've been reading up on the ANT/TES archtype and I've decided to start off with your list and then tweak it to my meta once I've played a few tournaments. I understand how to play the maindeck - IGG loop, hiding cards with Brainstorm, etc, but I'm not 100% sure about sideboarding plans. I'm assuming that the Xantid Swarms come in against counter-heavy decks, probably taking out an Underground Sea for a Tropical Island. Chain of Vapor would come in against hate cards. Doomsday plan goes in against decks with no clock like Enchantress? For the Doomsday plan, would you just structure your deck as Shelldock Isle, Emrakul, Duress, Duress, Duress? Is it never worth risking the Doomsday plan if they're running Wasteland? A quick sideboarding overview would be very much appreciated if you had the time.
What's a really recent deck list for this deck look like now-a-days?
I wanted to build TES for awhile
The first page always has the most recent deck Bryant uses
Edit: Bryant updates mtgthesource more often than he does here but his maindeck is the same as he posted here, only his sideboard has changed so I suggest going there to find out exactly what he is currently using
Scenario 1:
1.) Storm player can produce RB with lands and has Dark Ritual and Rite of Flame in hand.
2.) Storm player casts Dark Ritual, you Daze and they pay 1.
3.) They can't cast Rite of Flame and only net BBB.
Scenario 2:
1.) Storm player can produce RB with lands and has Dark Ritual and Rite of Flame in hand.
2.) Storm player casts Rite of Flame, you Daze and in response they play Dark Ritual.
3.) They net RRBB.
This matters a lot on the combo turn.
Standard
UGRB Emerge
Modern
U Tron
Legacy
UWBRG The E.P.I.C. Storm
TES is technically a 5 color deck. We play gold lands with very few duals. We have red as a color for Rite of Flame and Burning Wish where AnT is usually only UB using Dark Ritual and Cabal Ritual as mana acceleration, and 12 cantrips in Ponder, Brainstorm, and Preordain. It also plays more duals/basics than we do. AnT focuses more on using Ad Nauseam to combo off and win as quickly as possible where TES chooses when it goes off because we have protection in Orim's Chant/Silence/Duress.
Most ANT decks are U/B Build...blue spells are mostly cantrips for combo pieces, replacing the slot for the banned Mystical Tutor.
Most TES decks are R/B Build... additional red spells for fast mana (rite of flame) and Burning Wish for tutoring end game sorcery for the win.
With my personal experience with these decks I find TES to be faster than ANT. I'm not the only one to think this, but TES is A LOT harder to pilot than ANT, which I have no doubt can give the appearence of it being slower than it is. I still, after years of playing TES, have trouble with it. I probably don't play it as much as I should (mainly cause I can't find it I am loving my merfolk deck in the mean time though).
As for the comment of rite of flame vs cabal ritual, my TES deck runs both along with other mana excel.
EDIT:
Most TES decks are usually 5 colors. Mostly 4 colors main and the 5th being in the SB. Just look at the fist post. You are correct on ANT being mostly 2 colors though. I have seen some 3 color ones around though. Mainly splashing red for wish.
Yes.
TES and ANT are built very differently. Chants/Discard/Swarm/Burning Wish vs. a more stable manabase/IGG loop/etc.
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
tldr; is at the bottom
For what it's worth, both decks are considered ANT when it comes to Wizard's event coverage.
But they are different enough to have distinguished names. I know it's already been touched on, but I'll take a stab at it, too.
ANT is a Tendrils of Agony combo deck, which begins with UB. Common splashes are G for Xantid Swarm, Krosan Grip and Reverant Silence; W for Orim's Chant and Silence.
Post-Mystical Tutor ban the deck uses a 10 cantrip + 2 business spell system.
The basis for this is usually something like this:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
+
2 Preordain/Sensei's Divining Top/Grim Tutor
The cantrip system plus 8 to 10 fetches make is easier for ANT to obtain threshold for Cabal Ritual than TES.
TES is a 3, 4 or 5 color deck.
The 5 color lists run this manabase:
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Gemstone Mine
2 City of Brass
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
The other lists run a combination of on-color fetches and some add Badlands and/or a few basics.
Orim's Chant and Silence via a 3/1 split are the common protection package in the 5 color lists. Some mix in Xantid Swarm while others maindeck Thoughtseize.
TES also runs Empty the Warrens as a win condition. TES plays Burning Wish and an additional storm engine in the form of Diminishing Returns.
ANT is cold to most hate where TES is flexible and can adapt.
tldr;
If you like losing to Wasteland, play TES. If you like slinging rituals and tendrils play, ANT.
Standard
UGRB Emerge
Modern
U Tron
Legacy
UWBRG The E.P.I.C. Storm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
Protection
2 Orim's Chant
2 Silence
4 Duress
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
Business
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Fetch
1 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
3 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Pyroclasm
1 Wipe Away
2 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Eye of Nowhere
1 Diminishing Returns
So pretty stock list, I guess, except for the sideboard. The 4 Thoughtseizes were amazing all day. I'd like to cut maybe 2 bounce spells for Xantid Swarms or more Chants. Not sure on that one though.
My overall impression of the deck is that when the deck runs well, it runs really well. There were a few Storm players in the 0-X bracket, which makes me a little uneasy about taking this deck to Richmond next weekend, but I'm not sure whether that was due to playskill or matchups or whatever.
In any case, I would like some input on the sideboard mostly. Thanks.
i like your list for the most part but being a new player to TES i have a few questions
1) how many chrome mox is normally run in TES?
2) you maindecked ad nauseum and empty the warrens over ill-gotten gains; is this normal/ what is normal in these slots/ are these 'flex' slots?
3) what would a good ratio of duress/chant effects be both main and sideboard?
any feedback on these topics would be much appreciated because i am trying to get into playing combo in legacy in addition to my less than stellar goblin and burn decks
(Banner courtesy of spiderboy from Highlight Studios)
bazaar trader count: 115 including;1 portugese foil; 7 english foils; 4 russian nonfoils
Volkan Baga should do a chrome mox art
I believe that Ill-Gotten Gains vs. Empty in the maindeck is personal preference. Ad Nauseam seems to be in everyone's maindeck. As far as I can tell, Empty is less situational than IGG, but I could be wrong.
I like 4 chants in the main, it seems like the right number. Honestly, I think 8 protection spells is correct in this format. If survival gets banned and blue decks become more dominant again, then more would obviously be better.
As far as the sideboard goes, I often see people playing just 1 protection spell as a wish target. However, these lists often have 3 Pyroblast in the board, which I think is definitely suboptimal right now, given that Counterbalance decks are a lot less prevalent. Thoughtseize usually is just as good as Blast at hitting a counterspell, and also hits hate bears.
Take these answers with a grain of salt as I just started playing the deck, but any opinion helps, I guess.
i have been doing a little research on this and other threads since my post yesterday and your answers seem consistent with the general idea i have been seeing in elsewhere
also i have noticed your list is extremely close to bryant cook's current version of TES
(Banner courtesy of spiderboy from Highlight Studios)
bazaar trader count: 115 including;1 portugese foil; 7 english foils; 4 russian nonfoils
Volkan Baga should do a chrome mox art
I'd hardly say that. It's a non-storm win-condition requiring multiple blue (lloking at you, LED), which would require the same amount of protection to force through against landstill. Couple that with the fact that most landstill builds are running canonists out of the board and you've got one sub-par-sideboard card. Against TES the game will, 99% of the time, come down to who drew more disruption. If you have enough mana and protection to win off of wish=> telemin, you could probably win some other way that didn't require a dedicated card, though an "oops I win" button might be useful sometimes.
Very much not worth the slot in an already super tight board.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
Definitely fair points. Also, how often is the Diminishing Returns and pray plan better than the Empty the Warrens plan? A card that costs 6 total mana and doesn't win you the game seems bad to me.
Here's the sideboard I was thinking of running (maindeck being the above list -1 Fetch/City of Brass {haven't decided} +1 Tropical Island):
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reverent Silence
1 Shattering Spree
1 Oust
4 Thoughtseize
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Flex
With Reverent Silence, Shattering Spree, and Oust, it seems like Eye of Nowhere is unnecessary, especially since Shattering Spree gets around Chalice of the Void and Reverent Silence should get around Counterbalance (if they flip a Jace, I would obviously be pissed, but it's a better shot than Eye of Nowhere).
Similarly, I feel as though Pyroclasm and Oust perform Grapeshot's role admirably, especially since both of those cards can deal with Ethersworn Canonist, whereas Grapeshot cannot.
As for Telemin Performance, I know that in testing and in sanctioned matches, I have had situations in the mirror match where I have had Burning Wish, Lion's Eye Diamond, and enough mana to wish for a 5 mana spell (obviously staring at my Wish and trying to turn it into an Infernal Tutor), and not being able to get the kill that turn. That is, not enough cards to storm for Tendrils of Agony, not wanting to risk having to wait and attack with Empty the Warrens tokens, or them having an Orim's Chant effect in their graveyard and the mana to cast it, rendering Ill-Gotten Gains useless.
In order for Telemin Performance to kill a Landstill player, the following things have to happen:
-You must have 3UU after a Burning Wish (probably through Lion's Eye Diamond).
-You must actually resolve Performance itself. The important thing to note here is that if Burning Wish resolved, they most likely do not have a counterspell, as Burning Wish is usually the optimal card to counter in your spell chain. Obviously this is not a worry if you have a Chant effect.
-Your opponent must not have any creatures in their 60 cards. I ran Landstill briefly and I at least considered including Vendilion Clique in my 75, so I do not really know how to approach this problem. I do know that 100% of the top 8 Landstill lists I have seen contain no creatures, but losing a game in this way would be embarrassing.
Since Landstill runs 3-4 Pernicious Deed maindeck (that they are likely not siding out), Empty the Warrens is an extremely unreliable kill condition past turn 1. Additionally, their counterspell count is extremely high, so Ill-Gotten Gains tends to be bad unless you have already resolved a Chant effect. This means, of course, that if you have Burning Wish (as opposed to Infernal Tutor), you have no way to consistently win if you cannot naturally generate 10 storm. I already went over how you can have no good Wish targets available when playing against Storm.
So Telemin Performance gives us a good Wish target when we would not have one against two reasonably popular Legacy decks. At the Richmond Legacy Open, I am expecting about 10% of the field to be Storm and about 2% of the field to be Landstill (let me know if you think these numbers are way off). I am convinced that this card is good against those two decks, but not sure whether 12% of the field is enough to dedicate a sideboard slot. This is the main point that I would like input on.
Assuming I do not run the Telemin Performance, the last sideboard slot will probably be Xantid Swarm. In my experience, many blue decks (especially Fish-style decks) cannot beat a resolved Xantid Swarm post sideboard, since they will probably not have any removal left in their deck. I am wary of running the full set of them though, since drawing multiples is pretty much the worst of the worst.
Any criticism of this sideboard is appreciated, and any criticism of my discussion of the 15th slot is even more so. I think that my maindeck is very close to optimal, which means that much of my success or failure on Sunday will be as a result of my choices in the sideboard.
tl;dr- Tell me what you would change about my sideboard.
11 set-in-stone
1 Tendrils
1 IGG
1 ETW
1 Grapeshot
1 Thoughtseize
1 Shattering Spree
1 Diminishing Returns (needed as a storm option off wish for aggro, trust me)
1 Krosan Grip
1 Wipe Away
2 Echoing Truth
4 meta-slot
anything from extra copies of ETW or xantid swarms can come in, that's a "day of" choice. Vindicate or eye of nowhere may take an extra wish slot.
I don't really see siding in thoughtseizes doing much out of the board and I think your removal package is a bit unnecessary, as far as vastness of options go. You're better off being able to kill in more situations in my experience.
Is your MB standard?
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
I'm new to legacy and I always found storm decks to be very interesting. If someone could give me an explanation I would be indebted.
Heh! I just feel in love with the deck on Nov 14th when Mtgpulse put it on their website I had (still have) a Doomsday Isle deck but it needed a better core.... your deck list makes it an alternate win-con in the SB, it's awesome!
I'm getting the cards to build it wit ha smallish change in the SB (Krosan Grip x2, chain of vapor x1 and echoing truth x1).
Congrats sir
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Preordain
4 Ponder
4 Duress
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ad Nauseam
2 Chrome Mox
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Doomsday
2 Krosan Grip
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Tropical Island
1 Shelldock Isle
Standard: XDon't play.X
Legacy: BUReanimatorUB
Vintage: URBWGDBRU
I too appreciate the info on the IGG loop! Being a new TES player (only been playing it for 3 days, no tournaments yet) I was a bit confused by how the IGG loop worked and that helped explain it quite well. The one thing I'm still wondering about though is how you loop with IGG in the sideboard with Burning Wish? I see the deck list in the original post runs IGG in the board as a Wish target but I'm still a bit confused about how you'd loop with it since unlike Infernal Tutor you have to remove Burning Wish from the game after it's been used, making you unable to nab it back with IGG.
Any insight on this?
To IGG loop you wish for the IGG typically the turn before you go off unless you have a god hand with multiple LEDs or something involved then you start the spell chain and go off next turn typically. Make sure you'll have enough storm count though before you do so; not having enough storm to kill them is very bad typically even though gaining 16 life or something will hold the opponent off for a few turns depending on board state you can go all the way to 38 life and have merfolk kill you in 4 turns with lord support.
Currently Playing:
Retired
but i have huge problem to make a good sideboard..and to know what to take in and out against some decks... at my group there are two merfolks-decks, one dreadstill, one feariecontrol-deck and one enchantress-deck..
This is my deck:
Lands (14)
4x Gemstone Mine
3x City of Brass
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Underground Sea
1x Badlands
1x Volcanic Island
Mana-source (19)
4x Dark Ritual
4x Rite of Flame
3x Chrome Mox
4x Lion`s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Pedal
Card-Draw (17)
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Burning Wish
4x Infernal Tutor
1x Ad Nauseam
Protection (8)
4x Duress
2x Orims Chant and 2x Silence
Win-Con (2)
1x Tendrills of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
Sideboard (15)
1x Tendrills of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Deminishing Returns
1x Shattering Spree
1x Pyroclasm
1x Grapeshot
1x Krosan Grip
1x Chain of Vapors
3x Pyroblast
3x Xantid Swarm
more Silence? Echoing Truth? Wipe Away? Thoughtseize?
Could someone with TES experiance help me?
i put in a thoughtseize...thoes it really make sens to wish for a thoughtseize?
About the krosan grip and the chain...what would you suggest? 2x chains and no grip...or what? or one more shattering spree cause a calice on one kills me...
I've been reading up on the ANT/TES archtype and I've decided to start off with your list and then tweak it to my meta once I've played a few tournaments. I understand how to play the maindeck - IGG loop, hiding cards with Brainstorm, etc, but I'm not 100% sure about sideboarding plans. I'm assuming that the Xantid Swarms come in against counter-heavy decks, probably taking out an Underground Sea for a Tropical Island. Chain of Vapor would come in against hate cards. Doomsday plan goes in against decks with no clock like Enchantress? For the Doomsday plan, would you just structure your deck as Shelldock Isle, Emrakul, Duress, Duress, Duress? Is it never worth risking the Doomsday plan if they're running Wasteland? A quick sideboarding overview would be very much appreciated if you had the time.
Thanks,
Precision
I wanted to build TES for awhile
The first page always has the most recent deck Bryant uses
Edit: Bryant updates mtgthesource more often than he does here but his maindeck is the same as he posted here, only his sideboard has changed so I suggest going there to find out exactly what he is currently using