I think cutting all your copies of this is a HUGE mistake. Not only does it make eye mana, it allows you to tap ancient tomb for 1 mana instead of 2 without paying the life penalty. Yes you may not be able to utilize the black mana, but the utility it provides is so strong.
Yeah but I'd rather have 2 Karakas and 4 Cavern of Souls for 4 Eldrazi Displacers, which, in my opinion, trump Matter Reshaper in terms of usefulness (preventing Emrakul, the Aeons Torn from ever attacking is a win in my book). I look at Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth as the land I am consistently least excited to see in my opening hand or when drawing. You can't cast a number of eldrazi (all of them with the exception of Eldrazi Mimic and Endless One require one <>) with the black mana it makes, and at best, it turns out a t2 chalice/thorn/sphere effect from a terrible hand that you should have mulled to begin with.
I'd rather have a t1 Eldrazi Temple/Ancient Tomb, poop out an Endless One or Eldrazi Mimic and have a t2 Crystal Vein/City of Traitors into a Thought-Knot Seer (swinging in for 6) or an Umezawa's Jitte played/equipped/swinging than a t1 Eldrazi Temple, aforementioned critter, and a t2 nothing (or at best, a totally vulnerable Jitte that sits for a turn). It's true that if I had an Eye of Ugin and an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth on t2, I could cast my critters, but I'd be locked out of my Thought-knot Seer and Reality Smasher until I found a <> source. I've run into the issue of having the right mana, but not the right color (or lack there of) in modern many times. I'm still baffled by most players not realizing that the uncounterable mana Cavern of Souls makes must be colored and isn't always tapped for that uncounterable mana when casting colorless eldrazi. Make sure you're announcing that you're making a colored mana to pay for a generic mana in a creature's cmc if you don't want to be visited by a judge (who will likely rule against you since you didn't say anything about making uncounterable manas).
When casting eldrazi spells with cavern of souls as long as the colorless mana requirement is met it is assumed that cavern is casting it uncounterably,you don't have to announce it.
As for Cavern of Souls, yes you must announce you are utilizing the Colored Mana otherwise it will be defaulted to generic. If you are playing at your LGS, I assume it wouldn't be such a big deal; however, in bigger events you should always make sure your opponent knows this.
My question for the day is how Necessary is it to run Karakas at 1 in your MB? It seems most lists are running it; however, is it a have too or preference?
My question for the day is how Necessary is it to run Karakas at 1 in your MB? It seems most lists are running it; however, is it a have too or preference?
Karakas as a 1 of is almost a must. there are lots of legends you don't want on the battlefield. and running it as a 2 in the main is an almost free way of having good sneak and show and reanimator match ups.
My question for the day is how Necessary is it to run Karakas at 1 in your MB? It seems most lists are running it; however, is it a have too or preference?
Karakas as a 1 of is almost a must. there are lots of legends you don't want on the battlefield. and running it as a 2 in the main is an almost free way of having good sneak and show and reanimator match ups.
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I understand this, but with the speed of this deck and the power it holds, doesn't it outrace those legends? I can definitely see the Karakas in the side for those matches where you definitely need it (Sneak and Show and Reanimator), but I'm not 100% sold on the necessity of holding a 1 of in your MB when there are options which can be a bit more synergetic with you deck.
I would suggest you check out the thread on the source .We've been working on the deck for a while and we've all (the forum regulars ) been doing really well with the lists we're settling on. All your answers are there. As far as outracing them goes sure you can do that maybe if you land a chalice and they're not on the play but sometimes a main deck karakas can win the game as your first land drop . what utility are you looking for? the deck doesn't want wasteland .
I would suggest you check out the thread on the source .We've been working on the deck for a while and we've all (the forum regulars ) been doing really well with the lists we're settling on. All your answers are there. As far as outracing them goes sure you can do that maybe if you land a chalice and they're not on the play but sometimes a main deck karakas can win the game as your first land drop . what utility are you looking for? the deck doesn't want wasteland .
Thanks for the comment, will definitely check out that thread! As for not needing wasteland, I don't necessarily agree to the comment. I agree that some match-ups it is not needed; however, you do experience some where wasteland is wanted.
For those looking for a decklist, I took down the monthly Legacy Challenge on MTGO this Saturday with this list.
Imho it's the best version of the deck yet and I have a combined track record of 18-2 (9-1 leagues + 9-1 Legacy Challenge) so far (with a potenial 20-0 if I had chosen better lines/mulligan decisions). This build is insane and I wouldn't change a single card right now.
I've noticed your build and I can seeing very successful with the TKS Displacer combo and splash for Breaker. My question here is how is running no thorns treating you? Also the mulliganing decisions, what is the line you look for?
For those looking for a decklist, I took down the monthly Legacy Challenge on MTGO this Saturday with this list.
Imho it's the best version of the deck yet and I have a combined track record of 18-2 (9-1 leagues + 9-1 Legacy Challenge) so far (with a potenial 20-0 if I had chosen better lines/mulligan decisions). This build is insane and I wouldn't change a single card right now.
I've noticed your build and I can seeing very successful with the TKS Displacer combo and splash for Breaker. My question here is how is running no thorns treating you? Also the mulliganing decisions, what is the line you look for?
No Thorns have been pretty okay for me. E.g I have a clean 4-0 (8-0 in games) record vs Storm with this build despite not running MD Thorn. I don't think it's really required against most decks.
For mulligans in general, I look to deploy a fast Chalice and/or fast Eldrazi beats, preferable with a T2 TKS. If a hand has neither, it gets shipped.
I've been playtesting your deck and I do really like it. Do you have any sideboarding notes for different match-ups? Would be awesome to see how you sideboard given such a solid record with the deck.
I've been really liking your list, and your Sideboarding guide has been really helpful as I'm new to legacy. What do you think about adding 1-2 wastes against blood moon, which I've been having come up a lot on MTGO? I was thinking of cutting 1 Mishra's factory for 1 waste MD, and 1 waste in the SB potentially by moving that 4th displacer to the main. Otherwise I'm not sure, i really like how you have everything setup honestly and any cuts are tough to make at this point.
I've been really liking your list, and your Sideboarding guide has been really helpful as I'm new to legacy. What do you think about adding 1-2 wastes against blood moon, which I've been having come up a lot on MTGO? I was thinking of cutting 1 Mishra's factory for 1 waste MD, and 1 waste in the SB potentially by moving that 4th displacer to the main. Otherwise I'm not sure, i really like how you have everything setup honestly and any cuts are tough to make at this point.
That's been a rising question lately, and in all honesty cutting a Mishra's Factory for a Waste is not the best plan; however, moving the 4th displacer to MB might be correct. It could possibly be cutting a Worldbreaker for the 2nd Waste.
Is one waste in the SB not sufficient, or is two really the magic number? Im not sure if 4 dispacers main is ideal with the mana. Maybe cutting down to 3 in the 75 is good enough?
I've been really liking your list, and your Sideboarding guide has been really helpful as I'm new to legacy. What do you think about adding 1-2 wastes against blood moon, which I've been having come up a lot on MTGO? I was thinking of cutting 1 Mishra's factory for 1 waste MD, and 1 waste in the SB potentially by moving that 4th displacer to the main. Otherwise I'm not sure, i really like how you have everything setup honestly and any cuts are tough to make at this point.
That's been a rising question lately, and in all honesty cutting a Mishra's Factory for a Waste is not the best plan; however, moving the 4th displacer to MB might be correct. It could possibly be cutting a Worldbreaker for the 2nd Waste.
I'm considering moving the 4th Displacer MD, but I need to test it first if the mana is still good enough to support 4 copies even without the additional white source from the board. Cutting Factory is a bad idea. The cut for the second Wastes is currently discussed in the Source thread. I'm torn between cutting one World Breaker or Thorn.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is two wastes absolutely necessary? I mean is just 1 not sufficient?
Is one waste in the SB not sufficient, or is two really the magic number? Im not sure if 4 dispacers main is ideal with the mana. Maybe cutting down to 3 in the 75 is good enough?
for consistency reasons I like 2, I find I almost never draw it when running 1, but see it more often than not with 2, of course it helps mulligans as well when you know you are going to face a blood moon
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Modern: C Serum Eldrazi Legacy: CEldrazi C Mud W Soldier Stompy R Bread (big red stompy) WU Spirit Blade WUG Meat Hooks WUBGR Blue Dredge
I'm considering moving the 4th Displacer MD, but I need to test it first if the mana is still good enough to support 4 copies even without the additional white source from the board. Cutting Factory is a bad idea. The cut for the second Wastes is currently discussed in the Source thread. I'm torn between cutting one World Breaker or Thorn.
So for the list as is right now, whenever you are sideboarding in your displacer are you also bringing in Karakas?
Sweet, thanks for the reply. I've actually built your deck on MTGO and I was building a colorless version on paper, but now I'm switching over and finishing your deck on paper, I've really been enjoying it and
doing well online despite being really new to the format. Based on the other thread where you SB guide is (which has been uber helpful btw) I'm going to try out 2 wastes in the SB by cutting one World Breaker and the SB
displacer. I'm really interested in hearing whether or not you think the Main Deck can support 4 displacers, and if you end up going with wastes, something else, or no changes at all. I'm at 3 in the 75 right now just with the cuts which really suck tbh but i have been seeing a lot more back to basics and blood moon online so looks like it might be the way to go.
I'm considering moving the 4th Displacer MD, but I need to test it first if the mana is still good enough to support 4 copies even without the additional white source from the board. Cutting Factory is a bad idea. The cut for the second Wastes is currently discussed in the Source thread. I'm torn between cutting one World Breaker or Thorn.
So for the list as is right now, whenever you are sideboarding in your displacer are you also bringing in Karakas?
Yes. Quite a few times, Karakas also complements Displacer anyway (e.g. vs D&T, Reanimator, S&T, Lands, etc.).
What are your thoughts of the inclusion of hangarback walker into the 75? Seems like it'll be a great mana sink late game and gives jitte a lot of targets as well?
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Hangarback seems meh to me, it's a good mana sink but why play a creature that isn't an eldrazi/revoker? I feel the list is a bit tight to warrant his inclusion but if you find he works please post on it.
After some playtesting around my main things to figure out with this deck are:
- The number of Jittes to spread between the main and sideboard
- The number of Endbringers to split between the main and sideboard (I find the card is a great catch-all answer to random problem creatures in the format and wouldn't leave home without at least one)
- If Urborg is at all worthwhile in reality. I went down to one from two and haven't missed it. It's a nice bonus when I happen to draw it and gives me options but I rarely ever "need" it.
Hangarback seems meh to me, it's a good mana sink but why play a creature that isn't an eldrazi/revoker? I feel the list is a bit tight to warrant his inclusion but if you find he works please post on it.
After some playtesting around my main things to figure out with this deck are:
- The number of Jittes to spread between the main and sideboard
- The number of Endbringers to split between the main and sideboard (I find the card is a great catch-all answer to random problem creatures in the format and wouldn't leave home without at least one)
- If Urborg is at all worthwhile in reality. I went down to one from two and haven't missed it. It's a nice bonus when I happen to draw it and gives me options but I rarely ever "need" it.
How has everyone else been faring?
Yah I agree, I haven't gotten around to testing it but with more thought, it doesn't seem to fit in, it doesn't really serve the deck much of a purpose other than being a jitte target. Right now im running 2 jitte MB because in the matches you need it, its REALLY good. However, once in a while i feel like it just sits in my hand as I go on to win without it. Its really good against the mirror, which is relevant with how many eldrazi decks are now running around in the meta, so I think i'll keep 2 in the MB, but a 1/1 split might be good too.
i should also note that I'm running a white splash for 3x displacer, and 2x world breakers from the board, also I may start testing vile aggregate in place of matter reshaper in the list as well (since my list supports the colors fairly well with 3 lotus, 4 caverns, 2 crossroads, 2 karakas). I'm probably going to bump crossroads to 4-of (dropping wasteland/ factory altogether - yikes) when I get around to testing vile aggregate or eldrazi obligator - i probably won't have time to test it out for another 2 weeks or so don't hold your breathe waiting. My guess however is that vile aggregate won't be as good without the sky spawner to make it grow rapidly, so I may test a mix of that as well.
Was wondering the importance of wasteland as I was looking at crystal vein I thought that it would increase consistency of the deck substantially. But maybe that just kills the interaction of the deck by not having wasteland any thoughts?
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Maybe with regular REL at your LGS.
King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
Karakas as a 1 of is almost a must. there are lots of legends you don't want on the battlefield. and running it as a 2 in the main is an almost free way of having good sneak and show and reanimator match ups.
I understand this, but with the speed of this deck and the power it holds, doesn't it outrace those legends? I can definitely see the Karakas in the side for those matches where you definitely need it (Sneak and Show and Reanimator), but I'm not 100% sold on the necessity of holding a 1 of in your MB when there are options which can be a bit more synergetic with you deck.
King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
Thanks for the comment, will definitely check out that thread! As for not needing wasteland, I don't necessarily agree to the comment. I agree that some match-ups it is not needed; however, you do experience some where wasteland is wanted.
King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
I've noticed your build and I can seeing very successful with the TKS Displacer combo and splash for Breaker. My question here is how is running no thorns treating you? Also the mulliganing decisions, what is the line you look for?
King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
That's been a rising question lately, and in all honesty cutting a Mishra's Factory for a Waste is not the best plan; however, moving the 4th displacer to MB might be correct. It could possibly be cutting a Worldbreaker for the 2nd Waste.
King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is two wastes absolutely necessary? I mean is just 1 not sufficient?
for consistency reasons I like 2, I find I almost never draw it when running 1, but see it more often than not with 2, of course it helps mulligans as well when you know you are going to face a blood moon
C Serum Eldrazi
Legacy:
C Eldrazi
C Mud
W Soldier Stompy
R Bread (big red stompy)
WU Spirit Blade
WUG Meat Hooks
WUBGR Blue Dredge
So for the list as is right now, whenever you are sideboarding in your displacer are you also bringing in Karakas?
doing well online despite being really new to the format. Based on the other thread where you SB guide is (which has been uber helpful btw) I'm going to try out 2 wastes in the SB by cutting one World Breaker and the SB
displacer. I'm really interested in hearing whether or not you think the Main Deck can support 4 displacers, and if you end up going with wastes, something else, or no changes at all. I'm at 3 in the 75 right now just with the cuts which really suck tbh but i have been seeing a lot more back to basics and blood moon online so looks like it might be the way to go.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
What are your thoughts of the inclusion of hangarback walker into the 75? Seems like it'll be a great mana sink late game and gives jitte a lot of targets as well?
C Serum Eldrazi
Legacy:
C Eldrazi
C Mud
W Soldier Stompy
R Bread (big red stompy)
WU Spirit Blade
WUG Meat Hooks
WUBGR Blue Dredge
After some playtesting around my main things to figure out with this deck are:
- The number of Jittes to spread between the main and sideboard
- The number of Endbringers to split between the main and sideboard (I find the card is a great catch-all answer to random problem creatures in the format and wouldn't leave home without at least one)
- If Urborg is at all worthwhile in reality. I went down to one from two and haven't missed it. It's a nice bonus when I happen to draw it and gives me options but I rarely ever "need" it.
How has everyone else been faring?
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
Yah I agree, I haven't gotten around to testing it but with more thought, it doesn't seem to fit in, it doesn't really serve the deck much of a purpose other than being a jitte target. Right now im running 2 jitte MB because in the matches you need it, its REALLY good. However, once in a while i feel like it just sits in my hand as I go on to win without it. Its really good against the mirror, which is relevant with how many eldrazi decks are now running around in the meta, so I think i'll keep 2 in the MB, but a 1/1 split might be good too.
i should also note that I'm running a white splash for 3x displacer, and 2x world breakers from the board, also I may start testing vile aggregate in place of matter reshaper in the list as well (since my list supports the colors fairly well with 3 lotus, 4 caverns, 2 crossroads, 2 karakas). I'm probably going to bump crossroads to 4-of (dropping wasteland/ factory altogether - yikes) when I get around to testing vile aggregate or eldrazi obligator - i probably won't have time to test it out for another 2 weeks or so don't hold your breathe waiting. My guess however is that vile aggregate won't be as good without the sky spawner to make it grow rapidly, so I may test a mix of that as well.
EDIT: here's the list I'm going to test
C Serum Eldrazi
Legacy:
C Eldrazi
C Mud
W Soldier Stompy
R Bread (big red stompy)
WU Spirit Blade
WUG Meat Hooks
WUBGR Blue Dredge
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
LEGACY
Turbo Depths
Big Eldrazi