I like it. I don't play with Rift Bolt because it's too slow and Skewer the Critics seemed to make a good alternative to that card. I'm not sure what I'll drop or replace in my current burn deck.
On the other hand I'm building a mono-red modern burn deck and I believe Skewer the Critics is a card that becomes the missing chain lightning.
I'm looking at that card too....
I'm not sure what I'd take out yet.
Personally I dont mind rift bolts delay..the suspend turn often turns into a defensive play, in that an opponent holds off casting a creature for a turn because they know it's going to get bolted.
The downside to this new card in my mind, is that it would be a totally dead bolt on turn 1.
I'm sure I'll get some, I'm not sure they'll make it into my deck on a permanent basis.
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I'm looking at that card too....
I'm not sure what I'd take out yet.
Personally I dont mind rift bolts delay..the suspend turn often turns into a defensive play, in that an opponent holds off casting a creature for a turn because they know it's going to get bolted.
The downside to this new card in my mind, is that it would be a totally dead bolt on turn 1.
I'm sure I'll get some, I'm not sure they'll make it into my deck on a permanent basis.
It may be that this winds up being a 1of copy in the deck. Based on when we feel we hit the point of diminishing returns on bolts we may not want more bolts in quantity, but may need marginal variety for whatever reason. I mean we are already sorta at the point where the deck just has a fixed core of 12 creatures and like 24ish spells, there is not much wiggle room.
It is a card you maybe do not want in your opening grip in multiple either, so running fewer than 4 may be optimal.
I cannot believe I am asking this but is Light up the Stage worth playing? I wouldn't even ask except I just reread the damn thing and the play from exile clause is until the end of the NEXT turn.
I have had a lot of success running a singleton Dangerous Wager in my 60. Burn goes through its hand so fast that the discard clause on that is almost irrelevant, so my ideal turn 3 usually has me casting fireblast, desperate wager, and then ideally a bolt. I don't run more than one because it is a card that is often not online until turn 3 and I never want to see more than one of them, but when it comes up I am almost always happy with it.
Light up the stage changes my math a lot. It is 1 mana cheaper, it's ideal turn is 2, it does not have the discard clause, it changes the play order where you want to sorcery speed bolt your opponent, and it is a lot better in multiple than wager. I think your ideal turn with the card will be T1 play a dude, T2 Lavaspike and play this, T3 play a land from the exiled cards, play 3 bolts from hand and/or Exile and maybe a fireblast. I also think because you are seeing more of your deck you can maybe get greedy on land too, nothing extreme but maybe 1 less all things considered.
The question really becomes is having draw in the list worth it at all. I am fully aware the deck can finish out games without ever needing more than its natural cards, but having draw in the list does help us get through control matches, incidental life gain, and recover from mulligans. I think this card may be good enough, but im not sure. Here is what I am pondering:
I wouldn't rune Skewer the Critics as you NEED your opponent to take damage. Yes, we frequently get damage in but turn one, I rather suspend a Rift Bolt than wait around one or two turns for me to get a Goblin Guide or bolt to get the Spectacle cost off on Skewer. Light Up The Stage is a fun card, but I don't see us playing it honestly. I rather have Faithless Looting or Wheel of Fortune instead for draw power.
I wouldn't rune Skewer the Critics as you NEED your opponent to take damage. Yes, we frequently get damage in but turn one, I rather suspend a Rift Bolt than wait around one or two turns for me to get a Goblin Guide or bolt to get the Spectacle cost off on Skewer. Light Up The Stage is a fun card, but I don't see us playing it honestly. I rather have Faithless Looting or Wheel of Fortune instead for draw power.
Faithless looting is not draw and Wheel is not an option in Legacy so those comparisons fall flat to me. You should not be drawing enough dead or situational cards in this list for faithless to be relevant any portion of the time.
If you are running a burn deck that cannot activate Light up the Stage on turn 3 then you have likely lost already. Are you saying you would sooner suspend a rift bolt turn one than play a goblin guide, because outside of very specific circumstance that seems to me to be 100% the wrong play.
Immolation Shaman is almost a strictly worse Harsh Mentor in this list, so no it will not and should not see play.
wow I totally forgot about Harsh Mentor.... I was looking at Immolation Shaman and was wondering if he's playable, but I guess he's worse then Harsh so the answer is no...
Skewer the Critics looks good but I'm not sure if I could fit the card in my deck. I'm not into playing 1 card in a burn deck because I would be playing 1 Thunderous Wrath. I'm considering in picking up 8 copies to test them in Legacy and Modern. I strongly believe Skewers will find a home in my mono-red modern burn deck.
I currently don't play Rift Bolt in my burn deck because suspend is slow and at one time Rift Bolt was good against countertop control decks (at least for me). If I was playing Rift Bolt in my legacy deck, I might drop them for a playset of Skewer the Critics.
I do think a lot of players might not be into Skewer the Critics because they are playing with Monastery Swiftspear and they like to maximize the punch of swiftspear, so it would suck to attack with swiftspear before casting 2 Skewer's. So not all builds could use Skewer.
Light Up The Stage I agree it can be a good card, especially with fireblast I'm not sure where to put the card in my current burn deck.
People loose life regularly...most notably with fetch lands. If this card were an instant it would be awesome.
As it is, it's still another 3 for 1. Throw in some shard volleys and that's 24 bolts, one way or another. (Are there more?)
Add in the 12 standard creatures, 4 fire blasts and 20 mountains, that's a super fast deck.
Flat out racing hasn't worked very well for me in a long time, but if they keep printing usaebale 1cc cards, maybe it can work again.
Right now the issue seems to be getting enough mountains down fast enough to unload all of this cheap damage all over someone....
Gauntlet of might is too slow,
Fast bond is too green...
But something that let's me play my cards faster is what I think I'm missing now.
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People loose life regularly...most notably with fetch lands. If this card were an instant it would be awesome.
As it is, it's still another 3 for 1. Throw in some shard volleys and that's 24 bolts, one way or another. (Are there more?)
shard volleys is not good, because we are playing 4 fireblasts. I wouldn't play shard volley in modern. The cost of 1 land is painful, especially in a deck like burn (we have no draw fixes)
Right now the issue seems to be getting enough mountains down fast enough to unload all of this cheap damage all over someone....
Gauntlet of might is too slow,
Fast bond is too green...
Gauntlet is a EDH card. And it's costly card (money value) that was remade better - Caged Sun. One time ago players would use Koth of the Hammer and in some cases he's like a Gauntlet of Might. But I wouldn't use it.
Fastbond is banned in legacy...
But something that let's me play my cards faster is what I think I'm missing now.
I've been playing with the new cards online the past few days. My unscientific first impressions are pretty good on both cards. I took out 3 risk factor (which i like better then browbeat for a number of reasons that are now moot) 3 price of progress and 1 land (I'm running 19 mountains now) to add 3 skewer and 4 light up the stage.
I like both cards individually, but im feeling like so many cards im counting on casting for the spectacle cost are kind of slowing my roll, and they dont play well with swiftspear. Plus I really miss my pop. I'm going to take the skewers back out for the pop.
I'm really enjoying the light up the stage. Its letting me play 19 lands with more consistancy, and it makes it easier to get out my vortex, which has really been a powerhouse for me.
I appreciate the suggestion about chrome mox, it just makes me so nervous to dump cards. Is there a trick I dont know whith the mox ? Or is the card you imprint to it really gone?
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I think browbeat mana cost is too much for today's Legacy Burn. If the mana cost was 2cc, I can see it worth playing. And the same applies for Risk Factor.
I've been playing with the new cards online the past few days. My unscientific first impressions are pretty good on both cards. I took out 3 risk factor (which i like better then browbeat for a number of reasons that are now moot) 3 price of progress and 1 land (I'm running 19 mountains now) to add 3 skewer and 4 light up the stage.
I like both cards individually, but im feeling like so many cards im counting on casting for the spectacle cost are kind of slowing my roll, and they dont play well with swiftspear. Plus I really miss my pop. I'm going to take the skewers back out for the pop.
I'm really enjoying the light up the stage. Its letting me play 19 lands with more consistancy, and it makes it easier to get out my vortex, which has really been a powerhouse for me.
I appreciate the suggestion about chrome mox, it just makes me so nervous to dump cards. Is there a trick I dont know whith the mox ? Or is the card you imprint to it really gone?
Swiftspear is a good creature but she don't work well for me with Eidolon. And because I value Eidolon of the Great Revel so high, I focus my attention on each card that interacts with Eidolon.
And the two new spells skewer & stage seemed to be designed as Anti-Swiftspear cards - You need to play a 1 mana burn spell first, before casting skewer and/or stage to pump up Swiftspear. That perspective is more limited than casting a Reckless Charge on swiftspear.
I'm not saying that skewer & stage are bad, I don't think they should be used in a Swiftspear build.
I play 2 chrome moxes because I'm playing 4 vexing devils. I love vexing devils especially with Eidolon! I don't want to get into the vexing devil debate because I'd figured out that there are two burn players: Those that had played Vexing Devil with an open mind, and those that saw Vexing Devil as a Browbeat card. The power play I like with Vexing Devil comes after Eidolon is in play. Anyway, I'm willing to remove a devil from the game to drop a first turn Eidolon. Sure it's not often because most of the time I'm holding other burn spells or other creatures. So pitching for the Chrome Mox is mostly based on common sense. Would I pitch a Goblin Guide - No. Would I pitch a second Eidolon - Maybe. Would I pitch a Lava Spike - Sure. Once you pitch the spells for Chrome Mox the spells are gone!
Here's the list I've been playing online in the tournament practice section on mtgo the past few days, I've been doing very nicely. (18 wins and 11 losses)
I really like light up the stage. The benefits far outweigh the 2 downsides I've found with the card:
-you can't suspend rift bolt from exile, you can only cast it for 3.
-sometimes it doesnt work well with swiftspear. Other times you can damage your opponent and play LutS before you attack with swiftspear.
I took our my 4th fireblast because I've just been seeing it too much. There have been times in the past that I've thought 4 wa too many, and now especially with LutS, it's just in my hand too early or in multiples too often.
At least it feels that way.
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I've been messing around with this deck in MTGO for a few weeks, was wondering if you could give me any feedback on it. I use Skullcrack because Sulfuric Vortex is slow and it's hard to trample lifegain, plus I don't have any alternatives on the 2cmc slot. I wanted to start playing in tournaments but Eidolon is kind of expensive and I don't want to start competing if the deck isn't at full speed. Most top 8 decklists I see online play him, do you think he's essential in Legacy?
flame rift maybe for your 2cmc slot? it might not look too good, but i generally use it as a finisher, with price of progress. Sometimes, when your opponents think that just by tutoring for basic lands they can get out of price of progress damage, but instead hit a flame rift. feels good.
Eidolon is definitely good. think of each single cantrip your opponent has to burn to find an answer as a shock-bonus. and that's not even counting if they manage to even find an answer to it. it's really good.
edit: i think you should consider sulfuric vortex not only as a 'prevent life gain', but also as inevitability. sometimes, when you're against say DnT or stone blade, they stabilise, and you can't get enough damage to actually finish them off. This chips them to death hopefully faster than they can grind you out.
Yeah I just put 2 sulfuric vortexes back on the deck, and I definitely like them better than Skullcrack. I'm going to get Flame Rift for the 2 cmc slot, together with Vortex it can be dangerous against aggro, but I don't play against aggro much in Legacy, it's either a 3th or 4th turn win for me with Fireblast or a total loss against Combo mostly, which is too fast for burn; do you have any advice on winning against something like reanimator or belcher? I guess Vortex helps against Giselbrand (but only if you play it on time, they're usually online on the 1st turn), but it doesn't against Iona and I have yet to find an answer for belcher and co. I spent like 10$ on the deck (mostly on Guides, if I played Spark Elemental instead the deck would cost less than 5$), guess you can't ask much for that amount of money, specially when you're up against decks which can cost 100x as much...
$10 for a even a basic Burn deck is a pretty good deal. Even Bolts go for $2ish these days.
We have some very powerful sideboard options against combo. The problem is that most of them are quite specific, and very few are unbeatable by a skilled opponent. Karakas and Ensnaring Bridge are the most flexible choices, having value against Reanimator, SnT decks, and Depths decks, but the former is often not quite sufficient and the latter is often too slow. Leyline of the Void, Surgical Extraction, Faerie Macabre, and Tormod's Crypt are options against graveyard-using decks, but they only work against these decks, and Crypt is the only one I find serviceable (Leyline forces you to mulligan far too much and leaves you with dead draws, while Surgical and Faerie often falter in the face of discard). Pyrostatic Pillar and Pithing Needle have some fringe utility, but often aren't quite powerful enough, or sufficiently effective in enough matches.
At the end of the day, bad matches against combo will rarely change from that state. Your sideboard cards probably aren't going to beat them. You're just trying to buy time. If a sideboard card buys you a single turn, given your damage output, that's often enough.
$10 for a even a basic Burn deck is a pretty good deal. Even Bolts go for $2ish these days.
We have some very powerful sideboard options against combo. The problem is that most of them are quite specific, and very few are unbeatable by a skilled opponent. Karakas and Ensnaring Bridge are the most flexible choices, having value against Reanimator, SnT decks, and Depths decks, but the former is often not quite sufficient and the latter is often too slow. Leyline of the Void, Surgical Extraction, Faerie Macabre, and Tormod's Crypt are options against graveyard-using decks, but they only work against these decks, and Crypt is the only one I find serviceable (Leyline forces you to mulligan far too much and leaves you with dead draws, while Surgical and Faerie often falter in the face of discard). Pyrostatic Pillar and Pithing Needle have some fringe utility, but often aren't quite powerful enough, or sufficiently effective in enough matches.
At the end of the day, bad matches against combo will rarely change from that state. Your sideboard cards probably aren't going to beat them. You're just trying to buy time. If a sideboard card buys you a single turn, given your damage output, that's often enough.
Burn is a fun budget deck. I wouldn't play mono-red burn in a tournament, because our options are limited. I don't think there is anything wrong with splashing a 2nd color, especially if your playing with 8 fetchlands. You can go very far with 8 fetchlands and 2 dual lands.
I know a lot of players believe mono red burn is the best to play, because it's cheap and easy. But sometimes cheap is not the best solution, especially when your putting money into playing a tournament. And then again 8 fetchlands do make it harder for color screw.
Mono-Red Burn is not the best to play "because it's cheap and easy." It's the best to play because mono-Red is consistently powerful. All the spells you need to get the job done are in mono-Red, and you're immune to color-screw by randomness and Wasteland.
Fetches are sometimes used in Burn for cards like Searing Blaze. Duals and splashes aren't left on the table because good players don't have them. They're left on the table because the options granted by splashing are almost never worth the cost in performance from adding 3 Duals, 10 fetches, and a bunch of spells that aren't actually damaging the opponent.
If you want to play something with a better game against combo or hate cards than Burn, UR Delver is a fine deck. But if you're facing a meta that demands you splash if you play Burn, it's probably not a meta you want to play Burn in to begin with.
First off, The first post of this primer is spot on.
Accurate and deep. Good Job.
My personal flourish has often been Shrapnel Blast, and sometimes Goblin Grenade, but I do get it that they are definitely non-standard. Suddenly lots of left field artifacts or goblins appear, and it doesn't really fit the burn Archtype. (Brainstorming a Thunderous Wrath seems strong.) Hidetsugu's Second Rite does cost 4, but rarely will you be less satisfied by a Game of Magic.
(I am so putting 2nd rite back in the board.)
Anyhoo, . . .
I am getting absalutely smashed by Dark Depths.
I have looked through 50? different decklists and found a couple of solutions, but few good ones. Ensnaring Bridge is often going to work, once it is in play. But. It wont get into play fast enough, will get discarded, and sometimes destroyed. Powder Keg is a turn 2 solution, so it's faster, but, will still get discarded and destroyed.
Alpine Moon is a wacky one that really seems good, especially on the play.
And then there are lands. Karakas is a great way to bounce the legendary token, and hey wow it makes a Mana! Maze of Ith works to stop Mr 20/20 from hurting me Island of Wak-Wak is by far the style land
Now, I get it that Island of Wak-Wak is not a common idea, but, i got 2 of them.
And actually playing them, and winning because of them . . .
Wak-Wak also looks good against Delver, and reanimator
Maze of Ith seems a a bit boringly utilitarian.
I was very excited when I looked at my original Karakas, but the updated wording is big sad making.
But unfortunately they all get wastelanded, and crop rotation is going to find that wasteland.
First off, The first post of this primer is spot on.
Accurate and deep. Good Job.
My personal flourish has often been Shrapnel Blast, and sometimes Goblin Grenade, but I do get it that they are definitely non-standard. Suddenly lots of left field artifacts or goblins appear, and it doesn't really fit the burn Archtype. (Brainstorming a Thunderous Wrath seems strong.) Hidetsugu's Second Rite does cost 4, but rarely will you be less satisfied by a Game of Magic.
(I am so putting 2nd rite back in the board.)
Anyhoo, . . .
I am getting absalutely smashed by Dark Depths.
I have looked through 50? different decklists and found a couple of solutions, but few good ones. Ensnaring Bridge is often going to work, once it is in play. But. It wont get into play fast enough, will get discarded, and sometimes destroyed. Powder Keg is a turn 2 solution, so it's faster, but, will still get discarded and destroyed.
Alpine Moon is a wacky one that really seems good, especially on the play.
And then there are lands. Karakas is a great way to bounce the legendary token, and hey wow it makes a Mana! Maze of Ith works to stop Mr 20/20 from hurting me Island of Wak-Wak is by far the style land
Now, I get it that Island of Wak-Wak is not a common idea, but, i got 2 of them.
And actually playing them, and winning because of them . . .
Wak-Wak also looks good against Delver, and reanimator
Maze of Ith seems a a bit boringly utilitarian.
I was very excited when I looked at my original Karakas, but the updated wording is big sad making.
But unfortunately they all get wastelanded, and crop rotation is going to find that wasteland.
to be honest, the best tech i've used against turbo depths is using chump blockers or ensnaring bridge. ornihopter, pia nalaar? you don't need so many turns to be blanking the marit lage before you kill them, right? so the bridge should hold out until then.
Or hell, glacial chasm could be your last-ditch effort to not lose?
Surgical wont work. (pretty sure)
Same with Traitor's roar. (too slow, and a sorcery, so no window).
Grab the reins is too expensive
Disharmony (&ActOfA) might work, but requires the 20/20 to exist in my main faze. And it often doesn't.
Backlash is perfect. Except its a black card.
As I said E-Bridge will get discarded, destroyed, or maybe be too slow. But it does have a definite plan.
Pia and ornithopter are one turn wonders that slow me down too, and might get destroyed.
Glacial Chasm will work, but seems strictly worse than Karakas, Maze of Ith and Island of Wak-Wak.
Hmmmmm.
Weird to think Bitterblossom would work too. (if I had Black)
See how hard it is?
Surgical wont work. (pretty sure)
Same with Traitor's roar. (too slow, and a sorcery, so no window).
Grab the reins is too expensive
Disharmony (&ActOfA) might work, but requires the 20/20 to exist in my main faze. And it often doesn't.
Backlash is perfect. Except its a black card.
As I said E-Bridge will get discarded, destroyed, or maybe be too slow. But it does have a definite plan.
Pia and ornithopter are one turn wonders that slow me down too, and might get destroyed.
Glacial Chasm will work, but seems strictly worse than Karakas, Maze of Ith and Island of Wak-Wak.
Hmmmmm.
Weird to think Bitterblossom would work too. (if I had Black)
See how hard it is?
A singleton Alpine Moon seems hopeful.
Splash white for Path to Exile... You could have 2 shocklands and 8 fetchlands
* Not getting a white mana, blows
* Getting Path to exile hit by Inquiz & Thoughtseize also blows
* Them getting a second 20/20 also blows. (Now, sure, they absolutely should be dead before a second one)
It is that first problem that happens WAY to often. No White. Especially in two sprint decks where you only see about 10 cards.
I am worried about them wastelanding my Land based solution, so having them destroy the Sacred Forge seems valid.
Way more fetches would work at getting a second white source, I spoze.
Turn 1 on the play - Alpine Moon - seems the best solution. Everything else gets discarded, or wastelanded.
Alpine Moon seems terrible against almost everything else. Tron would be funny, but. . .
I think it would stop the Uzra's Tower tapping for 3, but I think the Urza's Mine & Powerplant would still tap for 2 because the Tower is called an Urza's Tower, even if it loses the 'Type'. (?)
Turn 2 or 3 (island of Wak-Wak, Karakas, or Maze of Ith) seems OK too. Glacial Chasm is sitting on a 4 turn bomb, which admittedly should be long enough. Since I am trying to kill the opponent, which of the 4 lands to play is a curious call. Legacy is a mammoth field.
Karakas taps for crappy mana.
Wak-wak is best against fliers. (Delver & most reanimators)
Maze is best against ground based offence. (Ball Lightning)
Chasm works against some combo & Thump
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On the other hand I'm building a mono-red modern burn deck and I believe Skewer the Critics is a card that becomes the missing chain lightning.
I'm not sure what I'd take out yet.
Personally I dont mind rift bolts delay..the suspend turn often turns into a defensive play, in that an opponent holds off casting a creature for a turn because they know it's going to get bolted.
The downside to this new card in my mind, is that it would be a totally dead bolt on turn 1.
I'm sure I'll get some, I'm not sure they'll make it into my deck on a permanent basis.
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It may be that this winds up being a 1of copy in the deck. Based on when we feel we hit the point of diminishing returns on bolts we may not want more bolts in quantity, but may need marginal variety for whatever reason. I mean we are already sorta at the point where the deck just has a fixed core of 12 creatures and like 24ish spells, there is not much wiggle room.
It is a card you maybe do not want in your opening grip in multiple either, so running fewer than 4 may be optimal.
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I have had a lot of success running a singleton Dangerous Wager in my 60. Burn goes through its hand so fast that the discard clause on that is almost irrelevant, so my ideal turn 3 usually has me casting fireblast, desperate wager, and then ideally a bolt. I don't run more than one because it is a card that is often not online until turn 3 and I never want to see more than one of them, but when it comes up I am almost always happy with it.
Light up the stage changes my math a lot. It is 1 mana cheaper, it's ideal turn is 2, it does not have the discard clause, it changes the play order where you want to sorcery speed bolt your opponent, and it is a lot better in multiple than wager. I think your ideal turn with the card will be T1 play a dude, T2 Lavaspike and play this, T3 play a land from the exiled cards, play 3 bolts from hand and/or Exile and maybe a fireblast. I also think because you are seeing more of your deck you can maybe get greedy on land too, nothing extreme but maybe 1 less all things considered.
The question really becomes is having draw in the list worth it at all. I am fully aware the deck can finish out games without ever needing more than its natural cards, but having draw in the list does help us get through control matches, incidental life gain, and recover from mulligans. I think this card may be good enough, but im not sure. Here is what I am pondering:
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava spike
4 Fireblast
4 Light up the stage
2 searing blaze
2 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Skewer the Critics
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
19 Mountain
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Would Immolation Shaman find it's way into our side boards?
Vintage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Legacy
Faithless looting is not draw and Wheel is not an option in Legacy so those comparisons fall flat to me. You should not be drawing enough dead or situational cards in this list for faithless to be relevant any portion of the time.
If you are running a burn deck that cannot activate Light up the Stage on turn 3 then you have likely lost already. Are you saying you would sooner suspend a rift bolt turn one than play a goblin guide, because outside of very specific circumstance that seems to me to be 100% the wrong play.
Immolation Shaman is almost a strictly worse Harsh Mentor in this list, so no it will not and should not see play.
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I did like Dangerous Wager for a short time, and in some builds 2 Dangerous Wager was fair in a burn deck. But the 2cc casting cost moved me away from using the card because I was playing 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel, 4 searing blaze and 3/4 Price of Progress.
Skewer the Critics looks good but I'm not sure if I could fit the card in my deck. I'm not into playing 1 card in a burn deck because I would be playing 1 Thunderous Wrath. I'm considering in picking up 8 copies to test them in Legacy and Modern. I strongly believe Skewers will find a home in my mono-red modern burn deck.
I currently don't play Rift Bolt in my burn deck because suspend is slow and at one time Rift Bolt was good against countertop control decks (at least for me). If I was playing Rift Bolt in my legacy deck, I might drop them for a playset of Skewer the Critics.
I do think a lot of players might not be into Skewer the Critics because they are playing with Monastery Swiftspear and they like to maximize the punch of swiftspear, so it would suck to attack with swiftspear before casting 2 Skewer's. So not all builds could use Skewer.
Light Up The Stage I agree it can be a good card, especially with fireblast I'm not sure where to put the card in my current burn deck.
People loose life regularly...most notably with fetch lands. If this card were an instant it would be awesome.
As it is, it's still another 3 for 1. Throw in some shard volleys and that's 24 bolts, one way or another. (Are there more?)
Add in the 12 standard creatures, 4 fire blasts and 20 mountains, that's a super fast deck.
Flat out racing hasn't worked very well for me in a long time, but if they keep printing usaebale 1cc cards, maybe it can work again.
Right now the issue seems to be getting enough mountains down fast enough to unload all of this cheap damage all over someone....
Gauntlet of might is too slow,
Fast bond is too green...
But something that let's me play my cards faster is what I think I'm missing now.
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shard volleys is not good, because we are playing 4 fireblasts. I wouldn't play shard volley in modern. The cost of 1 land is painful, especially in a deck like burn (we have no draw fixes)
Gauntlet is a EDH card. And it's costly card (money value) that was remade better - Caged Sun. One time ago players would use Koth of the Hammer and in some cases he's like a Gauntlet of Might. But I wouldn't use it.
Fastbond is banned in legacy...
Chrome Mox - I play 2 in my burn deck
I like both cards individually, but im feeling like so many cards im counting on casting for the spectacle cost are kind of slowing my roll, and they dont play well with swiftspear. Plus I really miss my pop. I'm going to take the skewers back out for the pop.
I'm really enjoying the light up the stage. Its letting me play 19 lands with more consistancy, and it makes it easier to get out my vortex, which has really been a powerhouse for me.
I appreciate the suggestion about chrome mox, it just makes me so nervous to dump cards. Is there a trick I dont know whith the mox ? Or is the card you imprint to it really gone?
The Precious
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I think browbeat mana cost is too much for today's Legacy Burn. If the mana cost was 2cc, I can see it worth playing. And the same applies for Risk Factor.
Swiftspear is a good creature but she don't work well for me with Eidolon. And because I value Eidolon of the Great Revel so high, I focus my attention on each card that interacts with Eidolon.
And the two new spells skewer & stage seemed to be designed as Anti-Swiftspear cards - You need to play a 1 mana burn spell first, before casting skewer and/or stage to pump up Swiftspear. That perspective is more limited than casting a Reckless Charge on swiftspear.
I'm not saying that skewer & stage are bad, I don't think they should be used in a Swiftspear build.
I play 2 chrome moxes because I'm playing 4 vexing devils. I love vexing devils especially with Eidolon! I don't want to get into the vexing devil debate because I'd figured out that there are two burn players: Those that had played Vexing Devil with an open mind, and those that saw Vexing Devil as a Browbeat card. The power play I like with Vexing Devil comes after Eidolon is in play. Anyway, I'm willing to remove a devil from the game to drop a first turn Eidolon. Sure it's not often because most of the time I'm holding other burn spells or other creatures. So pitching for the Chrome Mox is mostly based on common sense. Would I pitch a Goblin Guide - No. Would I pitch a second Eidolon - Maybe. Would I pitch a Lava Spike - Sure. Once you pitch the spells for Chrome Mox the spells are gone!
4 lighting bolt
4 chain lightning
4 lava spike
4 rift bolt
4 light up the stage
4 goblin guide
4 monastery swiftspear
4 eidolon of the great revel
3 fireblast
3 price of progress
3 sulfuric vortex
4 smash to smithereens
3 grafdiggers cage
3 ensnaring bridge
3 volcanic fallout
2 prostatic pillar
I really like light up the stage. The benefits far outweigh the 2 downsides I've found with the card:
-you can't suspend rift bolt from exile, you can only cast it for 3.
-sometimes it doesnt work well with swiftspear. Other times you can damage your opponent and play LutS before you attack with swiftspear.
I took our my 4th fireblast because I've just been seeing it too much. There have been times in the past that I've thought 4 wa too many, and now especially with LutS, it's just in my hand too early or in multiples too often.
At least it feels that way.
The Precious
B___U___G___R___W
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Skewer The Critics
2 Light Up the Stage
4 Skullcrack
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
4 Smash To Smithereens
3 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Volcanic Fallout
I've been messing around with this deck in MTGO for a few weeks, was wondering if you could give me any feedback on it. I use Skullcrack because Sulfuric Vortex is slow and it's hard to trample lifegain, plus I don't have any alternatives on the 2cmc slot. I wanted to start playing in tournaments but Eidolon is kind of expensive and I don't want to start competing if the deck isn't at full speed. Most top 8 decklists I see online play him, do you think he's essential in Legacy?
This is the Legacy thread, but Shrine is too slow for either format.
Eidolon is definitely good. think of each single cantrip your opponent has to burn to find an answer as a shock-bonus. and that's not even counting if they manage to even find an answer to it. it's really good.
edit: i think you should consider sulfuric vortex not only as a 'prevent life gain', but also as inevitability. sometimes, when you're against say DnT or stone blade, they stabilise, and you can't get enough damage to actually finish them off. This chips them to death hopefully faster than they can grind you out.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
We have some very powerful sideboard options against combo. The problem is that most of them are quite specific, and very few are unbeatable by a skilled opponent. Karakas and Ensnaring Bridge are the most flexible choices, having value against Reanimator, SnT decks, and Depths decks, but the former is often not quite sufficient and the latter is often too slow. Leyline of the Void, Surgical Extraction, Faerie Macabre, and Tormod's Crypt are options against graveyard-using decks, but they only work against these decks, and Crypt is the only one I find serviceable (Leyline forces you to mulligan far too much and leaves you with dead draws, while Surgical and Faerie often falter in the face of discard). Pyrostatic Pillar and Pithing Needle have some fringe utility, but often aren't quite powerful enough, or sufficiently effective in enough matches.
At the end of the day, bad matches against combo will rarely change from that state. Your sideboard cards probably aren't going to beat them. You're just trying to buy time. If a sideboard card buys you a single turn, given your damage output, that's often enough.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Burn is a fun budget deck. I wouldn't play mono-red burn in a tournament, because our options are limited. I don't think there is anything wrong with splashing a 2nd color, especially if your playing with 8 fetchlands. You can go very far with 8 fetchlands and 2 dual lands.
I know a lot of players believe mono red burn is the best to play, because it's cheap and easy. But sometimes cheap is not the best solution, especially when your putting money into playing a tournament. And then again 8 fetchlands do make it harder for color screw.
Fetches are sometimes used in Burn for cards like Searing Blaze. Duals and splashes aren't left on the table because good players don't have them. They're left on the table because the options granted by splashing are almost never worth the cost in performance from adding 3 Duals, 10 fetches, and a bunch of spells that aren't actually damaging the opponent.
If you want to play something with a better game against combo or hate cards than Burn, UR Delver is a fine deck. But if you're facing a meta that demands you splash if you play Burn, it's probably not a meta you want to play Burn in to begin with.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Accurate and deep. Good Job.
My personal flourish has often been Shrapnel Blast, and sometimes Goblin Grenade, but I do get it that they are definitely non-standard. Suddenly lots of left field artifacts or goblins appear, and it doesn't really fit the burn Archtype. (Brainstorming a Thunderous Wrath seems strong.)
Hidetsugu's Second Rite does cost 4, but rarely will you be less satisfied by a Game of Magic.
(I am so putting 2nd rite back in the board.)
Anyhoo, . . .
I am getting absalutely smashed by Dark Depths.
I have looked through 50? different decklists and found a couple of solutions, but few good ones.
Ensnaring Bridge is often going to work, once it is in play. But. It wont get into play fast enough, will get discarded, and sometimes destroyed.
Powder Keg is a turn 2 solution, so it's faster, but, will still get discarded and destroyed.
Alpine Moon is a wacky one that really seems good, especially on the play.
And then there are lands.
Karakas is a great way to bounce the legendary token, and hey wow it makes a Mana!
Maze of Ith works to stop Mr 20/20 from hurting me
Island of Wak-Wak is by far the style land
Now, I get it that Island of Wak-Wak is not a common idea, but, i got 2 of them.
And actually playing them, and winning because of them . . .
Wak-Wak also looks good against Delver, and reanimator
Maze of Ith seems a a bit boringly utilitarian.
I was very excited when I looked at my original Karakas, but the updated wording is big sad making.
But unfortunately they all get wastelanded, and crop rotation is going to find that wasteland.
Is there something I am missing?
powder keg can't destroy indestructibles...
i'm not sure what i'd do actually. surgical extraction? backlash? traitor's roar? do you black-splash your burn deck by any chance? act of aggression/disharmony?grab the reins?
to be honest, the best tech i've used against turbo depths is using chump blockers or ensnaring bridge. ornihopter, pia nalaar? you don't need so many turns to be blanking the marit lage before you kill them, right? so the bridge should hold out until then.
Or hell, glacial chasm could be your last-ditch effort to not lose?
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Surgical wont work. (pretty sure)
Same with Traitor's roar. (too slow, and a sorcery, so no window).
Grab the reins is too expensive
Disharmony (&ActOfA) might work, but requires the 20/20 to exist in my main faze. And it often doesn't.
Backlash is perfect. Except its a black card.
As I said E-Bridge will get discarded, destroyed, or maybe be too slow. But it does have a definite plan.
Pia and ornithopter are one turn wonders that slow me down too, and might get destroyed.
Glacial Chasm will work, but seems strictly worse than Karakas, Maze of Ith and Island of Wak-Wak.
Hmmmmm.
Weird to think Bitterblossom would work too. (if I had Black)
See how hard it is?
A singleton Alpine Moon seems hopeful.
Splash white for Path to Exile... You could have 2 shocklands and 8 fetchlands
* Not getting a white mana, blows
* Getting Path to exile hit by Inquiz & Thoughtseize also blows
* Them getting a second 20/20 also blows. (Now, sure, they absolutely should be dead before a second one)
It is that first problem that happens WAY to often. No White. Especially in two sprint decks where you only see about 10 cards.
I am worried about them wastelanding my Land based solution, so having them destroy the Sacred Forge seems valid.
Way more fetches would work at getting a second white source, I spoze.
Turn 1 on the play - Alpine Moon - seems the best solution. Everything else gets discarded, or wastelanded.
Alpine Moon seems terrible against almost everything else. Tron would be funny, but. . .
I think it would stop the Uzra's Tower tapping for 3, but I think the Urza's Mine & Powerplant would still tap for 2 because the Tower is called an Urza's Tower, even if it loses the 'Type'. (?)
Turn 2 or 3 (island of Wak-Wak, Karakas, or Maze of Ith) seems OK too. Glacial Chasm is sitting on a 4 turn bomb, which admittedly should be long enough. Since I am trying to kill the opponent, which of the 4 lands to play is a curious call. Legacy is a mammoth field.
Karakas taps for crappy mana.
Wak-wak is best against fliers. (Delver & most reanimators)
Maze is best against ground based offence. (Ball Lightning)
Chasm works against some combo & Thump