Quote from Raver1. Stuff to do
2. Free time
3. Do it last minute
Quote from Aquila NoctisThis is my actual burn deck and it's doing pretty well its job for a reasonable price
Mouse's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
// Lands20 Mountain// Creatures4 Goblin Guide3 Hellspark Elemental// Spells4 Lightning Bolt4 Fireblast3 Sulfuric Vortex4 Chain Lightning4 Magma Jet4 Lava Spike4 Rift Bolt4 Price of Progress2 Flame rift// Sideboard2 Volcanic Fallout3 Ratchet Bomb3 Ensnaring Bridge4 Vexing Shusher3 Smash to Smithereens
I am not running GLM because I do not like the way it performs, even with fetches... just basic mountain and we are good to go!
I love the way magma jet help the deck and the 2 Flame rift are also doing good...
2 volcanic fallout in side could turn useful for mass effects and the bridge protects us against fatties
Quote from Wolf_Cub82I am a fan of Grim Lavamancer, but to each their own.
I do however, suggest you reassess Magma Jet. I'm convinced that card creates its own self-fulfilling prophecy - doing less damage per mana and card, thus increasing the importance of the Scry effect to dig into more damage. It does work, but in my own experience you are just as well off running any better damage to mana ratio burn to increase your overall burn efficiency. I used to run the card myself. Just my thoughts on the matter.
Your sideboard has me curious what kind of meta you're going into. You have a lot of sweeper effects. 2 Fallout, 3 Ratchet, AND 3 Bridge??? That's a lot of creature hate in the sideboard for a deck that has good creature based matchups to start with. I also notice the complete lack of graveyard hate and the absence of Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast. No Dredge, Reanimator, or Omni-Tell in your meta, then?
Quote from Aquila NoctisHi and thanks for feedbacks!
About magma jet, what would you switch with, in my actual deck setting??
About side, I was keeping REB for a while in side, but never using it...
I have 2 fallout to get rid of weenies but Ratchet works also for other permanents... bridge instead is to block big fatties that can enter with Green sun's zenith or Show and tell...
I have grav-hate in all the rest of my legacy decks (3 more decks), but with burn I would not be sure which slot sacrifice to put relic or tormod inside....
Quote from Masa88
As for the "how to play" section, I think you could tell that it's not always to use Rift bolts as first ones. I can imagine 2 exceptions right away: Trinisphere and counterbalance. Trinisphere, as you need to pay 3 mana even if you suspend it (yes, with alternate cost you still need to pay 3 mana from Fireblast too, so this "fireblast plays around trinisphere" statement isn't true. Nothing plays around Trinisphere!") and counterbalance because lightning bolts and chain lightnings are easier to counter with that pesky enchantment than Rift Bolts ever are.
Quote from LormadorMichaelangelo, I notice in your sig that you describe your mono R deck as "Vexing Devil Wins," and I'm curious to see how you've utilized the creature. Could you possibly post that list? It's absent from the (wonderful) primer.
Quote from Wolf_Cub82I'd start with -2 Magma Jet, +2 Flame Rift. Non-Lavamancer list tend to be geared more towards pure speed. Test that and see if the increased amount of mutual damage works for you. After that, I'd recommend trying +2 creatures. Vexing Devil, Figure of Destiny, and Keldon Marauders come to mind as first picks since you don't like Grim Lavamancer.
Quote from Aquila NoctisWhat would you remove for this 2 more creatures?
Did you mean -2 magma jet again, so no magma jet in the end?
Quote from michaelangeloThanks! This is what I have been working with recently.
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4 Goblin Guide4 Grim Lavamancer4 Vexing Devil4 Lightning Bolt4 Chain Lightning4 Rift Bolt4 Lava Spike4 Fireblast3 Price of Progress3 Skullcrack3 Sulfuric Vortex9 Mountain4 Scalding Tarn1 Bloodstained Mire3 Arid Mesa2 Wooded Foothills4 Pyroblast4 Mindbreak Trap3 Ensnarning Bridge2 Smash to Smithereens2 Searing Blaze
Vexing Devil is mainly used in my build as an additional way to jump start my first 1-3 turns. Leading off with it turns 1 and 2 almost always results in a game win against non-combo decks. With them at 12 (10 or 11 if they have used fetchlands), they are already in range for lethal if you can drop a land on turn three and have a Fireblast or situation depending, Price of Progress. Game 2 I usually side Devil out after showing it to my opponent which hopefully makes them strategize against him when sideboarding.
Right now I'm considering adding the 4th Price of Progress back in due to the the hungry mana bases we're seeing right now. I may also drop 1 Pyroblast for 1 more Smash to Smithereens for consistency.
By the way, diid you see the little Easter Egg I left for you in the land stats section?
Quote from michaelangeloVexing Devil is mainly used in my build as an additional way to jump start my first 1-3 turns. Leading off with it turns 1 and 2 almost always results in a game win against non-combo decks. With them at 12 (10 or 11 if they have used fetchlands), they are already in range for lethal if you can drop a land on turn three and have a Fireblast or situation depending, Price of Progress. Game 2 I usually side Devil out after showing it to my opponent which hopefully makes them strategize against him when sideboarding.
Quote from Lormador
Another card that I think may be worth a second look in Lavamancer builds is Gitaxian Probe. If 1 life and Stifle-danger is worth it to put a land in the graveyard for GLM and Searing Blaze, is there any a priori reason why 2 life shouldn't be worth it for the same card, higher average burn quality, and information?
BUG Control - Favorable - This deck tries to work a card advantage engine that it based on wasting creatures, lands, and other permanent cards. This gives us good virtual card advantage which goes a long way in a matchup where we are clearly faster than our opponent. Be sure to remove Deathrite Shaman early so that they can't buy time to use Hymn to Tourach, Liliana, and Jace to get themselves back into the game.
Pox - Favorable - Like BUG control, they focus on land screw and permanent based removal. Hymn to Tourach is probably their best card in this matchup but our superior speed allows us to get rid of our hand before they can make too much of an impact. Again, we gain a lot of virtual card advantage against this deck thanks to us being immune to Wasteland and because we only need 1-2 lands to function which makes Sinkhole and Smallpox less of a threat. You will however want to be careful though as some Pox lists will include Chalice of the Void in their sideboard. Another card to watch out for is Syphon Life, which can be repeatedly spammed if they are playing the Green/Black Life From the Loam variant.
Lands - Favorable - Price of Progress is GG for this deck barring Zuran Orb/Glacial Chasm combo. Using the stack can beat this lockdown by responding with burn to their Life From The Loam, and from their Orb activations. Smash to Smithereens is good to board in for their Mox Diamond and Zuran Orb. Also if you're feeling cute Faerie Macabre and Surgical Extraction can break their Life From the Loam loop.
The Gate - Favorable. They have a hard time slowing us down as we gain advantages off of their own bread and butter spells such as Dark Confidant, Thoughtseize, and Bitterblossom. Typically, the gate will run Vampire Nighthawk and Jitte maindeck, with possibly a Sword in the sideboard. Deal with these two problems and it is generally a solid matchup for us. You'll want to cut out Lava Spike for Searing Blaze and potentially something else for Smash to Smithereens if you suspect more artifacts in addition to Jitte. Even so, Sulfuric Vortex takes care of any lifegain and luckily black has no way to deal with enchantments unless they are using the Green splash for Abrupt Decay.
Affinity - Even to favorable. This matchup usually comes down to a race favoring Burn slightly, although Affinity can simply come out of the gates too fast with dream hands that are overwhelming. Save bolts that can act as removal for lifelinkers like Vault Skirge and anything with a Cranial Plating attached if your life total is in danger. Lavamancer can kill almost every creature the deck plays and Price of Progress wins us games. Smash to Smithereens, Shattering Spree, and/or Searing Blaze out of the sideboard can really push the advantage to your favor. Side out anything that isn't removal like Lava Spike.
Jund - Even to favorable - We are faster than they are and their only lifegainer (Deathrite Shaman) dies to any removal we throw at him. They will however use Thoughtseize, Liliana, and Hymn to Tourach to slow us down. Searing Blaze is a decent card to board in since they run a good amount of creatures and you'll want to have removal for Deathrite Shaman before he becomes a problem.
Elves - Even to favorable - Now that they have Deathrite Shaman they have upped their threat count on us but ultimately it comes down to burning out their weenies until they run out of gas. Searing Blaze is usually a helpful card to board in against them. Also, it may be tempting to bring in Mindbreak Trap, but it is not at all the card we want against Elves. Firstly, it is too situational, and second is that they can win without their bomb spells (presumably what you would use Mindbreak Trap on) by just swinging at us with an army of 1/1's and 2/2's after combo-ing off.
Zombardment - Even - Remember that any creature you kill is coming back (Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, Geralf's Messenger) so use your removal wisely, hitting Carrion Feeder at the right time can erase a lot of work that they put in. Again, Searing Blaze works well as you race their clock. Don't board out creatures since you will need blockers and lame duck targets to eat removal so that you can keep your Grim Lavamancer in play.
RUG - Even - Our clock is faster than theirs but they have good countermagic tech (Spell Pierce, Daze). Luckily, they have no life-gainers in their deck and Grim Lavamancer can ruin their clock especially if you get him to ping off Delver early. Their deck only runs 12 creatures so removing one of their threats can heavily disrupt their gameplan. Ensnaring Bridge is killer to bring in post boarding. Also keep in mind that if you side out creatures, you begin to play into cards like Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce, so usually its a better move to side out cards like Lava Spike and Flame Rift.
U/R Delver - Even - Feels like RUG but with Goblin Guide and Grim Lavamancer instead of Mongoose and Tarmogoyf. Board out Sulfuric Vortex for Searing Blaze and Pyroblast. Also be careful of Flame Rift in this matchup since they have a fast clock and like us they are packing Lightning Bolts and Fireblasts. Price of Progress will still work on them since their Wastelands can't be cracked on our lands, meaning that they will likely have some excess mana.
BUG aggro - Even - Similar to the RUG version choosing to omit Lightning Bolts and Forked Bolts for Abrupt Decay and Shardless Agent. Again, burn out Deathrite Shaman when you can and try to play around their countermagic. Ensnaring Bridge works against this variant as well and especially hurts Tombstalker.
12 Post - Even - Another race. Game 1 we have an advantage thanks to Price of Progress and just being faster than they are. Game 2 they will pack Show and Tell so bring Ensnaring Bridge and don't forget that these decks typically use 11-12 artifacts main deck and usually have a way to tutor them so Smash to Smithereens can be a house on its own.
Maverick - Even to less favorable - They use creatures such as Scavenging Ooze, Stoneforge Mystic, and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben to disrupt our gameplan with more coming from the sideboard (Ethersworn Canonist, Gaddock Teeg). It's usually a good move to burn Mom as Thalia + Mother of Runes lockdown is extremely frustrating to play against. That said, a good management of spells and tempo can guide you to victory against Maverick.
Death and Taxes - Even to less favorable - Similar to Maverick but without cards like Teeg, Scavenging Ooze, and Knight of the Reliquary. Smash to Smithereens is great to board in against Aether Vial, Batterskull, Phyrexian Revoker, and Umezawa's Jitte. Treat this deck like Maverick but with a slower clock and more controllish elements.
High Tide - Even to less favorable - While they dont pack heavy discard like Tendrils, they do have maindeck room for Force of Will and Flusterstorm. Sideboarding is obvious, bring Mindbreak Trap and Pyroblast. If you're bold you can try bringing Smash to Smithereens for their Candelabra. We don't have any relevant disruption for them game 1 but the good news is that this deck takes until at least turn 3 to combo off which gives us a solid chance to race them.
Goblins - Even to less favorable - Try to burn their Goblin Lackey or you'll be staring down Ringleader, Warchief, and Piledriver before you know it. What makes this matchup tough is that they can put out more threats than we can afford to remove so it becomes a balance of which Goblin to kill while also maintaining pressure on their life total. Watch out for Jitte and Chalice of the Void game 2. Generally you'll want to board out Flame Rift since it improves their already fast clock. Replace that with Searing Blaze and/or Smash to Smithereens.
TES/AnT - Less Favorable - While both burn and tendrils decks have about the same clock, Tendrils decks will pack Duress and Cabal Therapy which often slows us down just enough for them to go off before we can finish them. The one positive is that playing burn can shut down the Ad Nauseam route which limits them to Past in Flames/ Ill-gotten Gains. Bring in Mindbreak Trap and make them play around you.
Esperblade/UW control - Less Favorable - They have a lot of maindeck answers, Counterblance is a tough lockdown, Rest in Peace shuts down Lavamancer, Stoneforge Mystic can tutor lifegaining equipment cards. In this matchup, board in Smash to Smithereens for their equipment and Pyroblast for Jace and co.
Dredge - Less favorable - There are a couple things we can do to slow them down. One is to use Lavamancer or a burn spell to kill one of our own creatures to shut off Bridge From Below. Another is Ensnaring Bridge if it comes down early enough. Other than that, it's a race that they are generally a bit faster at. On the other hand, if you have Volcanic Fallout, you'll have some nice tech against their zombie tokens.
Merfolk - Less Favorable - Even without the Islandwalk bonus, the Lords make their creatures into 4/4's and 5/5's very quickly and they also maindeck cards like Spell Pierce, Daze, Force of Will, and Cursecatcher, with Hydroblast, Flusterstorm, and more Spell Pierces coming from the sideboard. Board out Price of Progress and Sulfuric Vortex for Red blast and Searing Blaze.
Belcher - Unfavorable - Game 1 is almost impossible to win against this deck barring a horrible hand on their part, or a whiff on a Belcher activation. Take Grim Lavamancer and Price of Progress out for Mindbreak Trap and mulligan aggressively.
Show and Tell - Unfavorable - Game 1 our only two outs are racing them, and having a Sulfuric Vortex in hand when they Show Griselbrand. Game 2 we can bring in Ensnaring Bridge which can single-handedly win us the game against Show, but does nothing against Sneak Attack unless we manage to resolve it before they do. It may be worth it to board in Mindbreak Trap against the OmniTell variant as they typically run 12-16 cantrips/tutors and also use the Petals of Insight + Grapeshot win-con.
Reanimator - Unfavorable - They are fast, especially variants using Lotus Petal. Iona, Shield Emeria lock is usually an instant scoop and Griselbrand isn't much better unless we already have a resolved Sulfuric Vortex. The one thing that can help is sometimes they have to rely on Careful Study for reanimation which may limit their choice of which fattie to reanimate (Elesh Norn isn't that big of a deal for us). Plus Reanimate is a good 7-9 free damage for us. It's worth noting that Sulfuric Vortex isn't exactly the card to side out against them as they usually go for Show and Tell post boarding, which if played can shut down Griselbrand and Sphinx of the Steel Wind from gaining life for them.
MUD - Unfavorable - Trinisphere, Lodestone Golem, and Chalice of the Void lockdown is a tough one. Luckily they have Ancient Tomb in their deck and may need to use it more than once which may help our cause. Game 2 and 3 board out your slowest cards for Smash to Smithereens, and potentially Ensnaring Bridge if you think you can manage it.
Quote from NantukoIs there any way we can get the matchup section on the first page of the primer?
P.s. The new Chandra is a let down.. Please WOTC give red some love.
Quote from LormadorAnother card that I think may be worth a second look in Lavamancer builds is Gitaxian Probe. If 1 life and Stifle-danger is worth it to put a land in the graveyard for GLM and Searing Blaze, is there any a priori reason why 2 life shouldn't be worth it for the same card, higher average burn quality, and information?
Quote from mrbig262I have a few questions.
I only own two fetch lands, is it worth playing them, also should I be running Grim Lavamancer with just two fetches?
If I drop the Lavamancers, is Ball Lightning a suitable replacement?
Quote from insaneySee the Bad Cards section of the primer. The list there was derived from the myriad of testing that various Burn players have done with the deck, and most tests conclude that adding Cantrips does nothing but hurt Burn.
Quote from LormadorI noticed the Bad Cards section. Many cards listed there are obviously bad, and some are borderline. I'm simply not willing to put my faith in the "myriad" of testing others have done, possibly because I don't personally know any players who have put more than a few hours of thought into Burn, they're all playing Show and Tell, Deathblade, Tin Fins, Omnitell, Miracles, Jund perhaps, you know... the "real decks." Even I'm going to pilot DnT, rather than Burn, at the SCG this weekend.
One really has to do one's own testing, hence my comment: I'm not asking whether Probe is ok, I'm making the contribution that my own testing has come out, to my great surprise, somewhat in favor of this dumb-looking card. YMMV. My name is Lormador, and I approve this message.
It comes down to the information. Sometimes it helps to know if there's a Stifle over there, or a Daze, or an Abrupt Decay, or if the Mother of Runes just played is going to protect a Stoneforge Mystic, or if Thalia is going to be a problem. Gitaxian Probe is a card in the grave for Lava Man to eat, 2 life lost, and pretty good information for the rest of the game. It doesn't deck thin, and that doesn't matter. As for land/threat count, that calculation is trivial.
And as a side note, normally I play pretty ballsy when I play Burn. Meaning even if I expect Daze or Stifle, so long as I can afford getting Dazed or Stifled, I just run into it blindly. More times than not, I get to do what I want because of the psychological edge of playing a linear (ergo, "ballsy") deck like Burn.
...at the end of the day I may prefer Marauders, but Probe is better than it looks.