What do we board inn and out vs Mono Blue Merfolk? its tough MU with their counter magic and massive amount of critters that are generally larger than ours.
And the more I play with the deck, the more I want to splash green for Goyfs. Jötun Grunt just seems to die whenever I need him the most.
I would just like to take this point to mention that this is something that rsaunder whit3_ghost and I have been advocating for a few months now. It is a tremendous help.
Also, if your opponent is taking time to waste your duals, they are missing crucial land drops against a deck designed to punish them for missing land drops. You are also running lots of fetches, so securing the colors you need to abuse a creature shouldn't be too difficult. Goyf provides a clock, Knight does as well (though slightly harder to cast, but not if you are able to sandbag fetches and such.)
I will probably be trying out two or three copies on Knight in the list that rsaunder and I are still working on improving. I'm not sure what creatures will be getting cut to make room for it - in the event that we even decide to make room for it
I would just like to take this point to mention that this is something that rsaunder whit3_ghost and I have been advocating for a few months now. It is a tremendous help.
Also, if your opponent is taking time to waste your duals, they are missing crucial land drops against a deck designed to punish them for missing land drops. You are also running lots of fetches, so securing the colors you need to abuse a creature shouldn't be too difficult. Goyf provides a clock, Knight does as well (though slightly harder to cast, but not if you are able to sandbag fetches and such.)
I will probably be trying out two or three copies on Knight in the list that rsaunder and I are still working on improving. I'm not sure what creatures will be getting cut to make room for it - in the event that we even decide to make room for it
I'm curious to see the list you're building from, what sorts of creatures already take its place? Is it just an issue of it being 2 off colors that makes it hard to play with?
I love Nighthawk as much as the next guy, but the fact remains that the decks that he would be best against just force feed him a bolt, or Lightning Helix or <insert any other piece of Zoo's removal here>. I loved running Nighthawk in my Deadguy build but In the MU's where he should matter most he just eats it, that 3 toughness just makes it very hard to keep him around. Despite the WW mana cost Id say that Descandant is better in the MU than the vampire.
I love Nighthawk as much as the next guy, but the fact remains that the decks that he would be best against just force feed him a bolt, or Lightning Helix or <insert any other piece of Zoo's removal here>. I loved running Nighthawk in my Deadguy build but In the MU's where he should matter most he just eats it, that 3 toughness just makes it very hard to keep him around. Despite the WW mana cost Id say that Descandant is better in the MU than the vampire.
Agreed on the nighthawk. He's a great creature in some matchups but Zoo has Path to Exile, Lightning Bolt and either Chain Lightning or Lightning Helix to remove him. That's a virtual guarantee that he's not going to help you in the matchup when you need him. I like him much more in a 18-20 creature list where the opponent has likely already used some removal before he lands.
@Disenchant: Against enchantress and stax Serenity is a lot better than disenchant.
I can't believe I didn't think of knight. Anyone else ever have an "oh duh" moment so hard it hurt?
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rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
Having 12+ :symb::symb: spells in a deck that also wants to cast :symg::symw: spells and also plays Wasteland is asking for inconsistency in a meta that punishes that at the moment. Having Dark Ritual in that deck creates further issues with mulligans. The answer is likely to be a shift towards a green centric deck, to get out KotR and Goyf reliably and then you start looking at things like Hymn to Tourach vs Life from the Loam and the deck inevitably shifts.
All of your lands are either a wasteland or produce black. There should be no other basics in the build, and fetching out has not been a problem in testing for us so far. We weren't running Knight, but we were running goyf, and we were regularly casting BB spells in addition to "off color" spells.
All of your lands are either a wasteland or produce black. There should be no other basics in the build, and fetching out has not been a problem in testing for us so far. We weren't running Knight, but we were running goyf, and we were regularly casting BB spells in addition to "off color" spells.
Goyf is much easier to cast than KotR, even in decks splashing white for another spell. KotR causes a doubling down effect because the removal of any dual that allows you to cast it early on also effects other key spells. Losing a Scrubland on turn 1 or 2 not only causes problems casting KotR but it also effects Swords to Plowshares. Losing a Bayou hurts KotR and Goyf.
The logical play on turn 1 for Deadguy is often to go get a Swamp, since that creates the best consistency moving though to turn 2. With KotR in the equation the opening hand may really not support going to get that Swamp and so one of Deadguy's best features - mana consistency - is put at risk by a creature that stretches the early mana requirements.
My unchanged list once again did fairly decent yesterday, beating Aggro Loam 2-0, Dragonstorm Combo 2-0, and White Weenie (basically Death & Taxes with more beats in favour over the Karakas/Mangara of Corondor combo) 2-1.
Tivon, have you considered Raven's Crime? This deck runs off of a very low curve, so being able to pitch unneeded lands to KotR seems like a great idea.
Goyf is much easier to cast than KotR, even in decks splashing white for another spell. KotR causes a doubling down effect because the removal of any dual that allows you to cast it early on also effects other key spells. Losing a Scrubland on turn 1 or 2 not only causes problems casting KotR but it also effects Swords to Plowshares. Losing a Bayou hurts KotR and Goyf.
The logical play on turn 1 for Deadguy is often to go get a Swamp, since that creates the best consistency moving though to turn 2. With KotR in the equation the opening hand may really not support going to get that Swamp and so one of Deadguy's best features - mana consistency - is put at risk by a creature that stretches the early mana requirements.
Disagree. Diamond is waste-proof, and fixes mana no matter the color. This means only one land is needed to hit the 1GW, which will probably be the ideal play for the deck no earlier than turn 4. It fits into the curve, isn't inconsistant to cast, and fixes up the "we run little creatures" problem as well as providing waste-lock. Try it out, I did and was impressed.
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rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
Disagree. Diamond is waste-proof, and fixes mana no matter the color. This means only one land is needed to hit the 1GW, which will probably be the ideal play for the deck no earlier than turn 4. It fits into the curve, isn't inconsistant to cast, and fixes up the "we run little creatures" problem as well as providing waste-lock. Try it out, I did and was impressed.
I agree that if you're playing Mox Diamond over Dark Ritual that KotR becomes very doable. However at that point you have to make a really good argument as to why you don't have Life from the Loam in the deck, since it makes KotR into a beast and it also works very well with diamond and wasteland. Then you start looking at why you don't have 4 cycling lands in the build since they work well with LftL and you probably need a minimum of 22 land to support 3 diamonds or 24 to support 4. Before you know it you have a Loam deck with features of Deadguy instead of Deadguy plus some diamonds and KotR.
You can keep Hymn in the deck with the diamonds instead of ritual. The question becomes whether or not you're better off doing that or putting in LftL which is broken with a lot of the rest of the stuff you want to do. Raven's Crime also becomes an option at that point.
Once you decide to go with KotR you're going to either be playing less efficient cards along side him, which happen to be remnants of Deadguy or you're going to be shifting the emphasis of the deck towards cards that synergize well with him.
I agree that if you're playing Mox Diamond over Dark Ritual that KotR becomes very doable. However at that point you have to make a really good argument as to why you don't have Life from the Loam in the deck
I'll stop the Rube Goldberg machine of thought right there: because it's an aggro deck and doesn't have the resources to pump into loam. New horizons doesn't run loam, using the KoTR waste-lock, they aren't required to be run together and in this case it's a bad idea because it detracts from the focus of the deck, which I think is what you're getting at. You can use a strategy without filling up your deck with cards to be good JUST with that strategy... I mean, most merfolk lists don't run 8 manlands to compliment standstill, most landstill lists don't run 4 decrees, no New Horizons lists run LftL and it's all because the synergy in that one situation isn't good with their overall gameplan*. This deck can (and should) run knight and diamond to fill the gaps in the deck: big beater and late game engine. The deck doesn't need to run new packages to fill the gaps of knight when the job is getting done anyway.
*Hell, most merfolk lists have been cutting standstill all together, losing that whole synergy for the sake of more lords. And it works better.
EDIT: I wouldn't drop below 22 land in a deck like this. The 20ish lists always look good on paper but consistancy in openers is the hallmark of a good Bx deck and without cantrips you won't get them with 20 land.
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rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
I'll stop the Rube Goldberg machine of thought right there: because it's an aggro deck and doesn't have the resources to pump into loam. New horizons doesn't run loam, using the KoTR waste-lock, they aren't required to be run together and in this case it's a bad idea because it detracts from the focus of the deck, which I think is what you're getting at. You can use a strategy without filling up your deck with cards to be good JUST with that strategy... I mean, most merfolk lists don't run 8 manlands to compliment standstill, most landstill lists don't run 4 decrees, no New Horizons lists run LftL and it's all because the synergy in that one situation isn't good with their overall gameplan*. This deck can (and should) run knight and diamond to fill the gaps in the deck: big beater and late game engine. The deck doesn't need to run new packages to fill the gaps of knight when the job is getting done anyway.
*Hell, most merfolk lists have been cutting standstill all together, losing that whole synergy for the sake of more lords. And it works better.
EDIT: I wouldn't drop below 22 land in a deck like this. The 20ish lists always look good on paper but consistancy in openers is the hallmark of a good Bx deck and without cantrips you won't get them with 20 land.
New Horizons is a red herring in this argument. The reason it doesn't run Life from the Loam is because it needs blue card count for Force of Will, and it's impossible to get the blue count right and fit the 11 big beaters and fit the removal the deck wants and also get LftL in there with the few support cards (like Mox Diamond) that work really well with it. Once you put 15+ non-blue cards in a deck you severely constrain your ability to add 3 or 4 more and still maintain the right blue count for FoW. New Horizons runs the 11 monsters, 4 instant speed removal and 2 other non-blue spells. That leaves room for 20 blue for FoW. Trying to add Life from the Loam to the list (by replacing Ponder for instance) would make it less consistent in every way. Adding Mox Diamond is an absolute no-go because it only runs 23 mana sources.
When Dave Price first ran the list he called it "Aggro No Loam" because he wanted many of the benefits of Aggro Loam, mainly huge creatures, but didn't have any good way to fit Life from the Loam in.
In the case of this list, with Mox Diamond, there's no good reason not to put Life from the Loam in. It already has made the decision to include Mox Diamond and KotR and from there the move to Life from the Loam is the sensible and powerful one. Staying with 8+ :symb::symb: cards and excluding LftL just makes the deck weaker and less consistent.
Life from the loam does nothing for the ultimate goal of the deck, which is disruption of the opponents hand and manabase, and win on the back of multifaceted or efficient creatures.
Efficient creature being goyf... I personally think that any other creature played in this deck needs to do something either while it is in play, or once it is in play. LftL takes up disruption spots - which are essential to the strategy and path that this deck wants to follow when playing. You already run a CA engine in bob, and another is not necessary. You don't run recursion, so putting your limited number of threats - and catchalls, and disruption into your yard just to get more lands and "draw more" (most likely dredge more into the yard by diluting the decks manabase and strategy) is a bad decision.
Knight and diamond compliment the deck and make it more efficient - which is something this deck certainly can appreciate
I have to agree with Tivon here. Drawing more lands seems bad. Thats why I'm having trouble figuring out how many land I'm gonna play. I keep drawing too many land when I need disruption or more creatures.
And one of the biggest issue with this deck right now IMO is that our creature are too fragile/small compared to what most of our opponents are using. So even though you get the good start with hand disruption and follow up with creatures. The opponent just need to top deck a larger creature and you're back on the defense waiting for STP (which sets you back a turn at least on the damage race) or Vindicate. Goyf needs back up muscle so that the deck can finish the job faster and more consistent.
KotR may or may not be the one we need for the job. But we need another fat monster that doesn't cost too much mana. Tombstalker should be a contender, but he does hurt you big time if you're unlucky with Bob.
In the case of this list, with Mox Diamond, there's no good reason not to put Life from the Loam in. It already has made the decision to include Mox Diamond and KotR and from there the move to Life from the Loam is the sensible and powerful one. Staying with 8+ :symb::symb: cards and excluding LftL just makes the deck weaker and less consistent.
Um... there still is a good reason: it's not proactive disruption in a proactive disruption deck. The deck would gain nothing by adding LftL, sacrificing draw steps for what... more swamps most of the time? I guess I just disagree that LftL is such a fantastic choice solely because of KotR+Diamond. Yes, there's synergy but it's not an auto-include, not in a deck like this. If you're running this list, you've made the decision that to you, BB disruption is more important than blue. That puts a premium on those effects, which are powerful. Knight and Loam aren't a package deal. The deck can support knight.
If the deck changes to support loam it's a massive swap and causes the deck to shift to a different deck. If you constantly optimize to the most synergistic strategies and most powerful choices, the only decks to consider would be lands, CB+Goyf, AnT combo and maybe merfolk. The fun of magic and legacy in particular is that there are middle grounds that can compete. This is one of those times where adding the most "synergistic" option dilutes the deck to the point of being something else, losing all it had to recommend it in the first place.
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rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
I agree that if you're playing Mox Diamond over Dark Ritual that KotR becomes very doable. However at that point you have to make a really good argument as to why you don't have Life from the Loam in the deck, since it makes KotR into a beast and it also works very well with diamond and wasteland. Then you start looking at why you don't have 4 cycling lands in the build since they work well with LftL and you probably need a minimum of 22 land to support 3 diamonds or 24 to support 4. Before you know it you have a Loam deck with features of Deadguy instead of Deadguy plus some diamonds and KotR.
You can keep Hymn in the deck with the diamonds instead of ritual. The question becomes whether or not you're better off doing that or putting in LftL which is broken with a lot of the rest of the stuff you want to do. Raven's Crime also becomes an option at that point.
Once you decide to go with KotR you're going to either be playing less efficient cards along side him, which happen to be remnants of Deadguy or you're going to be shifting the emphasis of the deck towards cards that synergize well with him.
Swapping out Hymns for LFTL/Raven's Crime completely changes how the deck functions, turning it from a black disruption based deck to a list that focuses on Loam interactions. You're talking about how broken Loam is, but are ignoring A) how precious your mana is in a deck like this, and paying 2-4 mana a turn for Loam recursions is simply too much and B) how freakin' slow it is. Like, turn four recursive Crime's are awesome against control decks that can't put any pressure on you, but if you're trying to get Loam set up against Zoo, you're going to be dead. Additionally, you already have a source of waste-lock that's also a massive creature. Seems straight up better than a tempo-sink 1G sorcery that doesn't generate card advantage without slowing your manabase with cycle lands or running weaker spells in Raven's Crime.
Hymn, albeit a one shot deal is an equal opportunity bomb that fits perfectly into your curve. There's a reason the top eight deck from Columbus ran six of them.
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Originally Posted by fearmeordie View Post
"HAI GUISE I PLAYZ T2 AND WANT TO PLAY LEGACY BUT NO HAZ CASHZ"
Originally Posted by Sir Aureus View Post
I don't see why everyone is so confused about the (SoM)expansion symbol. It's clearly a croissant. A metal croissant.
All hail croissant block.
I would just like to take this point to mention that this is something that rsaunder whit3_ghost and I have been advocating for a few months now. It is a tremendous help.
Also, if your opponent is taking time to waste your duals, they are missing crucial land drops against a deck designed to punish them for missing land drops. You are also running lots of fetches, so securing the colors you need to abuse a creature shouldn't be too difficult. Goyf provides a clock, Knight does as well (though slightly harder to cast, but not if you are able to sandbag fetches and such.)
I will probably be trying out two or three copies on Knight in the list that rsaunder and I are still working on improving. I'm not sure what creatures will be getting cut to make room for it - in the event that we even decide to make room for it
I'm curious to see the list you're building from, what sorts of creatures already take its place? Is it just an issue of it being 2 off colors that makes it hard to play with?
Legacy:
RBDark BurnBR
EDH
WBG Karador's Sepulcher GBW
Agreed on the nighthawk. He's a great creature in some matchups but Zoo has Path to Exile, Lightning Bolt and either Chain Lightning or Lightning Helix to remove him. That's a virtual guarantee that he's not going to help you in the matchup when you need him. I like him much more in a 18-20 creature list where the opponent has likely already used some removal before he lands.
Lands: 23
2x Swamp
1x Plains
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Marsh Flats
4x Scrubland
1x Tainted Field
4x Wasteland
4x Rishaden Port
Creatures: 12
4x Dark Confidant
4x Hypnotic Specter
3x Nantuko Shade
1x Tombstalker
Artifacts/Instants/Sorceries: 25
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Dark Ritual
4x Sinkhole
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Vindicate
2x Cursed Scroll
Sideboard: 15
4x Ravenous Trap
4x Disenchant (This is a meta thing; my store sees alot of Enchantress and some Stax)
4x Engineered Plague
3x Perish
Pretty self explanatory. This is a list that evolved from Chris Pikula's list long, long ago.
I can't believe I didn't think of knight. Anyone else ever have an "oh duh" moment so hard it hurt?
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
3/20/11 SCG Open Dallas-28th
10/30/11 SCG Open Kansas City-18th
3/10/12 SCG Open Dallas-?
Knight of the Reliquary really isn't going to fit in the Deadguy manabase and spell suite. The obvious morph is going to be to remove the :symb::symb: spells and replace them with spells easier to cast in a tri-color deck. So Hymn to Tourach becomes Inquisition of Kozilek, Hypnotic Specter becomes Knight of the Reliquary, Nantuko Shade becomes Tarmogoyf, etc. Dark Ritual then becomes Mox Diamond and you're well on your way to a hybrid of Deadguy and Aggro Loam - GBW.
Having 12+ :symb::symb: spells in a deck that also wants to cast :symg::symw: spells and also plays Wasteland is asking for inconsistency in a meta that punishes that at the moment. Having Dark Ritual in that deck creates further issues with mulligans. The answer is likely to be a shift towards a green centric deck, to get out KotR and Goyf reliably and then you start looking at things like Hymn to Tourach vs Life from the Loam and the deck inevitably shifts.
Goyf is much easier to cast than KotR, even in decks splashing white for another spell. KotR causes a doubling down effect because the removal of any dual that allows you to cast it early on also effects other key spells. Losing a Scrubland on turn 1 or 2 not only causes problems casting KotR but it also effects Swords to Plowshares. Losing a Bayou hurts KotR and Goyf.
The logical play on turn 1 for Deadguy is often to go get a Swamp, since that creates the best consistency moving though to turn 2. With KotR in the equation the opening hand may really not support going to get that Swamp and so one of Deadguy's best features - mana consistency - is put at risk by a creature that stretches the early mana requirements.
Legacy:
RBDark BurnBR
Disagree. Diamond is waste-proof, and fixes mana no matter the color. This means only one land is needed to hit the 1GW, which will probably be the ideal play for the deck no earlier than turn 4. It fits into the curve, isn't inconsistant to cast, and fixes up the "we run little creatures" problem as well as providing waste-lock. Try it out, I did and was impressed.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
I agree that if you're playing Mox Diamond over Dark Ritual that KotR becomes very doable. However at that point you have to make a really good argument as to why you don't have Life from the Loam in the deck, since it makes KotR into a beast and it also works very well with diamond and wasteland. Then you start looking at why you don't have 4 cycling lands in the build since they work well with LftL and you probably need a minimum of 22 land to support 3 diamonds or 24 to support 4. Before you know it you have a Loam deck with features of Deadguy instead of Deadguy plus some diamonds and KotR.
You can keep Hymn in the deck with the diamonds instead of ritual. The question becomes whether or not you're better off doing that or putting in LftL which is broken with a lot of the rest of the stuff you want to do. Raven's Crime also becomes an option at that point.
Once you decide to go with KotR you're going to either be playing less efficient cards along side him, which happen to be remnants of Deadguy or you're going to be shifting the emphasis of the deck towards cards that synergize well with him.
I'll stop the Rube Goldberg machine of thought right there: because it's an aggro deck and doesn't have the resources to pump into loam. New horizons doesn't run loam, using the KoTR waste-lock, they aren't required to be run together and in this case it's a bad idea because it detracts from the focus of the deck, which I think is what you're getting at. You can use a strategy without filling up your deck with cards to be good JUST with that strategy... I mean, most merfolk lists don't run 8 manlands to compliment standstill, most landstill lists don't run 4 decrees, no New Horizons lists run LftL and it's all because the synergy in that one situation isn't good with their overall gameplan*. This deck can (and should) run knight and diamond to fill the gaps in the deck: big beater and late game engine. The deck doesn't need to run new packages to fill the gaps of knight when the job is getting done anyway.
*Hell, most merfolk lists have been cutting standstill all together, losing that whole synergy for the sake of more lords. And it works better.
EDIT: I wouldn't drop below 22 land in a deck like this. The 20ish lists always look good on paper but consistancy in openers is the hallmark of a good Bx deck and without cantrips you won't get them with 20 land.
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BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
New Horizons is a red herring in this argument. The reason it doesn't run Life from the Loam is because it needs blue card count for Force of Will, and it's impossible to get the blue count right and fit the 11 big beaters and fit the removal the deck wants and also get LftL in there with the few support cards (like Mox Diamond) that work really well with it. Once you put 15+ non-blue cards in a deck you severely constrain your ability to add 3 or 4 more and still maintain the right blue count for FoW. New Horizons runs the 11 monsters, 4 instant speed removal and 2 other non-blue spells. That leaves room for 20 blue for FoW. Trying to add Life from the Loam to the list (by replacing Ponder for instance) would make it less consistent in every way. Adding Mox Diamond is an absolute no-go because it only runs 23 mana sources.
When Dave Price first ran the list he called it "Aggro No Loam" because he wanted many of the benefits of Aggro Loam, mainly huge creatures, but didn't have any good way to fit Life from the Loam in.
In the case of this list, with Mox Diamond, there's no good reason not to put Life from the Loam in. It already has made the decision to include Mox Diamond and KotR and from there the move to Life from the Loam is the sensible and powerful one. Staying with 8+ :symb::symb: cards and excluding LftL just makes the deck weaker and less consistent.
Efficient creature being goyf... I personally think that any other creature played in this deck needs to do something either while it is in play, or once it is in play. LftL takes up disruption spots - which are essential to the strategy and path that this deck wants to follow when playing. You already run a CA engine in bob, and another is not necessary. You don't run recursion, so putting your limited number of threats - and catchalls, and disruption into your yard just to get more lands and "draw more" (most likely dredge more into the yard by diluting the decks manabase and strategy) is a bad decision.
Knight and diamond compliment the deck and make it more efficient - which is something this deck certainly can appreciate
And one of the biggest issue with this deck right now IMO is that our creature are too fragile/small compared to what most of our opponents are using. So even though you get the good start with hand disruption and follow up with creatures. The opponent just need to top deck a larger creature and you're back on the defense waiting for STP (which sets you back a turn at least on the damage race) or Vindicate. Goyf needs back up muscle so that the deck can finish the job faster and more consistent.
KotR may or may not be the one we need for the job. But we need another fat monster that doesn't cost too much mana. Tombstalker should be a contender, but he does hurt you big time if you're unlucky with Bob.
Um... there still is a good reason: it's not proactive disruption in a proactive disruption deck. The deck would gain nothing by adding LftL, sacrificing draw steps for what... more swamps most of the time? I guess I just disagree that LftL is such a fantastic choice solely because of KotR+Diamond. Yes, there's synergy but it's not an auto-include, not in a deck like this. If you're running this list, you've made the decision that to you, BB disruption is more important than blue. That puts a premium on those effects, which are powerful. Knight and Loam aren't a package deal. The deck can support knight.
If the deck changes to support loam it's a massive swap and causes the deck to shift to a different deck. If you constantly optimize to the most synergistic strategies and most powerful choices, the only decks to consider would be lands, CB+Goyf, AnT combo and maybe merfolk. The fun of magic and legacy in particular is that there are middle grounds that can compete. This is one of those times where adding the most "synergistic" option dilutes the deck to the point of being something else, losing all it had to recommend it in the first place.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
Swapping out Hymns for LFTL/Raven's Crime completely changes how the deck functions, turning it from a black disruption based deck to a list that focuses on Loam interactions. You're talking about how broken Loam is, but are ignoring A) how precious your mana is in a deck like this, and paying 2-4 mana a turn for Loam recursions is simply too much and B) how freakin' slow it is. Like, turn four recursive Crime's are awesome against control decks that can't put any pressure on you, but if you're trying to get Loam set up against Zoo, you're going to be dead. Additionally, you already have a source of waste-lock that's also a massive creature. Seems straight up better than a tempo-sink 1G sorcery that doesn't generate card advantage without slowing your manabase with cycle lands or running weaker spells in Raven's Crime.
Hymn, albeit a one shot deal is an equal opportunity bomb that fits perfectly into your curve. There's a reason the top eight deck from Columbus ran six of them.
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Team Blitzkrieg- When We Put Our Cards Down, You Pick Yours Up.
Team Rehab- Wicked Defunct, But Still Better Than You.
Creatures (16)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Hypnotic Specter
2x Nyxathid
2x Vampire Nighthawk
Artifacts (6)
2x Sensei's Divining Top
2x The Rack
2x Umezawa's Jitte
Sorceries (18)
4x Vindicate
4x Hymn To Tourach
4x Dark Ritual
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Duress
2x Gerrard's Verdict
4x Godless Shrine
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Marsh Flats
5x Swamp
1x Plains
2x Mishra's Factory
2x Vampire Nighthawk
2x Swords to plowshares
3x Pithing Needle
4x Engineered Plague
4x Leyline of the Void
First round:
red green elves, 2-0
second round:
Eva Green, 2 -1
third round:
Affinity, 2-0
fourth round:
Loam/ Eva Green Hybrid, 2-1
Sorry I cant remember the specifics, ill take note next time.
:symb::symw::symb:Deadguy Ale:symw::symb::symw:
EDH
:symb::symb::symb:Ink-eyes:symb::symb::symb:
D3@D