I have a question: How do we deal with High Tide decks and Storm decks
Chalice of the void/Ethersworn Canonist. But if your expecting a lot of decks like those, don't play Affinity We beat the tar out of decks like Dredge and Zoo and Tempo decks. Combo, not so much
Ah, but the time is ripe for AEther Vial to shine! We've already cut out all of the creatures with Affinity, so everything falls (sorta) nicely on the curve. We have:
Has anyone experemented with a more control/combo version of affinity? It occurs to me that with a few modifications you can run affinity, without sacrificing too much, in a control shell as a way to try to play out tezz turn 2 consistently.
I'm playing around with the list, so far this is what I landed on:
The idea here is that you run heavy on the free drops as opposed to the more top heavy 3 drops most decks have been doing latley, this allows you to get a high artifact count early, but you can still also run in for damage with plating as needed.
You can use brainstorm and thoughtcast to get optimal drops turn one and have the best chances to sculpt your hand into a turn 2 tezzeret. You are now also running enough blue for the inclusion of Force of will to protect tezz.
The goal is to turn 3 ultimate for maximum profit. Even if it doesn't kill them, it will prevent you from dying while your skirges fly in for the win.
The deck can also run 4 opals since brainstorm can shove them back on top and tezzes +1 can get them out of the way. Brainstorm + Tezz is really strong, so much so i expect vintage will pick it up soon enough.
Anyways I have NO IDEA if this works, but it does look good on paper. Its using a bunch of cards that are typically considered to be strong as hell on there own, let along in a deck like this, and the inclusion of FOW protects the deck from null rod which is pretty big. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Has anyone experemented with a more control/combo version of affinity? It occurs to me that with a few modifications you can run affinity, without sacrificing too much, in a control shell as a way to try to play out tezz turn 2 consistently.
I'm playing around with the list, so far this is what I landed on:
The idea here is that you run heavy on the free drops as opposed to the more top heavy 3 drops most decks have been doing latley, this allows you to get a high artifact count early, but you can still also run in for damage with plating as needed.
You can use brainstorm and thoughtcast to get optimal drops turn one and have the best chances to sculpt your hand into a turn 2 tezzeret. You are now also running enough blue for the inclusion of Force of will to protect tezz.
The goal is to turn 3 ultimate for maximum profit. Even if it doesn't kill them, it will prevent you from dying while your skirges fly in for the win.
The deck can also run 4 opals since brainstorm can shove them back on top and tezzes +1 can get them out of the way. Brainstorm + Tezz is really strong, so much so i expect vintage will pick it up soon enough.
Anyways I have NO IDEA if this works, but it does look good on paper. Its using a bunch of cards that are typically considered to be strong as hell on there own, let along in a deck like this, and the inclusion of FOW protects the deck from null rod which is pretty big. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
someone already made a control-esque affinity list. NeoFinnity
someone already made a control-esque affinity list. NeoFinnity
That list is doing something very different, in that it's trying to be a pure controlling build. MY above idea is more akin to combo since its all about getting stuff out for tezzes ultimate, but at the same time it still has the early game aggro. The FOWs are not for control, but to help establish and protect the combo as it were. That being said its still pure affinity, just with a different end game.
That list is doing something very different, in that it's trying to be a pure controlling build. MY above idea is more akin to combo since its all about getting stuff out for tezzes ultimate, but at the same time it still has the early game aggro. The FOWs are not for control, but to help establish and protect the combo as it were. That being said its still pure affinity, just with a different end game.
Oh, I'm sorry for the mistake then. ><
I guess I misinterpreted your post wrongly.
It occurs to me that with a few modifications you can run affinity, without sacrificing too much, in a control shell
Controllish Affinity builds normally like to play Erayo. For your particular deck, I'd say you probably won't be seeing a turn 2 Tez often enough to win via turn 3 ultimate.
Controllish Affinity builds normally like to play Erayo. For your particular deck, I'd say you probably won't be seeing a turn 2 Tez often enough to win via turn 3 ultimate.
Really? I've never seen someone play Erayo in a control build... usually its some jank UBg with Glimpse
I can only fit one sword in my deck, and I'm trying to figure out which is more beneficial/synergistic to the deck. I'm thinking really hard about it. =/
I also only have money for either/or. I can't afford the whole sword collection just yet. (I already own Sword of Body and Mind and a Sword of War and Peace.)
Pros of SoFaI:
1. Draw
2. Burn
3. Protection from Blue and Red. (Bounce, Merfolks, Burn, Grim Lavamancer, etc)
Cons:
Protection is against matchups that we are typically strong against, anyway. (Merfolk, Burn, Zoo) which makes it a meh-kind of protection.
Pros of SoLaS:
1. Lifegain (albeit small)
2. Able to return a creature card from graveyard to hand. Considering our creatures, will then be most likely casted into play on the same turn anyway.
3. Pro Black and White. Two colors with the strongest removal. (Protects from Dismember, Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, etc)
Cons:
If graveyard is empty, 2nd ability does nothing. Vault skirge can typically gain more life than this thing.
Basically, SoFaI = Better triggered abilities while SoLaS = better protection.
Which of the two swords would Affinity benefit the most from?
Ravagers are back, I decided I missed them. I did find room for Mystics as well, and I want to try a singleton Batterskull to see how it works. I'm a little hesitant, since if the Mystic is killed before she can cheat Batterskull into play, then Batterskull becomes useless. But we'll see. I've also been considering Bonehoard as a more usable substitute for Batterskull, since the equip cost is manageable and the casting cost is one less. If the token gets killed, I can actually equip it to something else. I'd love to hear some other opinions on Bonehoard, though, perhaps I'm completely off-base. Or I can just run Sword of Fire and Ice.
@Alcarin: My vote goes to SoFaI, IF you're going to run a sword. It's the most aggressive of the swords, and lets you draw a card. SoLaS is much more defensive, and with this deck I don't think that's a position you want to be in. Maybe sideboard SoLaS, but run SoFaI main. However, have you considered the Living Weapon equipments before the swords? I know the swords give you better abilities, but the Living Weapons give you a creature and come pre-equipped, which might be more valuable. I like the swords, personally, but it's up to you.
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Ravagers are back, I decided I missed them. I did find room for Mystics as well, and I want to try a singleton Batterskull to see how it works. I'm a little hesitant, since if the Mystic is killed before she can cheat Batterskull into play, then Batterskull becomes useless. But we'll see. I've also been considering Bonehoard as a more usable substitute for Batterskull, since the equip cost is manageable and the casting cost is one less. If the token gets killed, I can actually equip it to something else. I'd love to hear some other opinions on Bonehoard, though, perhaps I'm completely off-base. Or I can just run Sword of Fire and Ice.
I also took out ravagers at one point, and put them back in. They are truly a creature that we miss.
I've tried bonehoard before, while it is awesome to fetch up mid-late game, I decided to run batterskull instead. Typically for the mid-late game i'll fetch up another plating or a jitte.
I run Batterskull because what if you get a hand with SFM-turn 1 or turn 2 able, but you don't expect to have a third manasource topdeck, anything you fetch essentially just sits in your hand. I've had games like this:
Ancient den, Mox Opal, SFM, Ornithopter, Memnite, Etched and MoE as starting 7 (or something similar.)
Land, Mox Opal, Memnite, Ornithopter then cast SFM. Fetch what? a sword or jitte? or maybe even Bonehoard? What if you don't draw a topdeck 2nd land? or springleaf drum? you'll be stuck with a board presence of An orni, a memnite and an SFM. Thats a weak board presence for turn two.
As opposed to if you have batterskull, atleast you'll have something threatening on turn 2. Even if it immediately eats removal, atleast your SFM didn't. It buys you time sometimes. Sure, the 5 equip is daunting but with Ancient Tombs, it shouldn't be that big a problem.
If you do fetch Batterskull and you DO get to draw out a manasource topdeck, then simply go for Turn 2 MoE or Etched Champ. Which is also a huge threat anyway. You don't risk losing tempo.
Basically, I run batterskull purely for SFM plays that occur on the first two turns. Anything later than that and I'd rather fetch a jitte, a sword or a plating.
@Alcarin: My vote goes to SoFaI, IF you're going to run a sword. It's the most aggressive of the swords, and lets you draw a card. SoLaS is much more defensive, and with this deck I don't think that's a position you want to be in. Maybe sideboard SoLaS, but run SoFaI main. However, have you considered the Living Weapon equipments before the swords? I know the swords give you better abilities, but the Living Weapons give you a creature and come pre-equipped, which might be more valuable. I like the swords, personally, but it's up to you.
I currently run batterskull as the only living weapon. I've looked at Necropouncer as a "possible", but it seems like a waste of space. Other living weapons are meh, aside from a late game bonehoard.
So that's 1 vote for SoFaI because of its abilities... Okay. Thanks for the comments.
I've tried bonehoard before, while it is awesome to fetch up mid-late game, I decided to run batterskull instead. Typically for the mid-late game i'll fetch up another plating or a jitte.
I run Batterskull because what if you get a hand with SFM-turn 1 or turn 2 able, but you don't expect to have a third manasource topdeck, anything you fetch essentially just sits in your hand. I've had games like this:
Ancient den, Mox Opal, SFM, Ornithopter, Memnite, Etched and MoE as starting 7 (or something similar.)
Land, Mox Opal, Memnite, Ornithopter then cast SFM. Fetch what? a sword or jitte? or maybe even Bonehoard? What if you don't draw a topdeck 2nd land? or springleaf drum? you'll be stuck with a board presence of An orni, a memnite and an SFM. Thats a weak board presence for turn two.
As opposed to if you have batterskull, atleast you'll have something threatening on turn 2. Even if it immediately eats removal, atleast your SFM didn't. It buys you time sometimes. Sure, the 5 equip is daunting but with Ancient Tombs, it shouldn't be that big a problem.
If you do fetch Batterskull and you DO get to draw out a manasource topdeck, then simply go for Turn 2 MoE or Etched Champ. Which is also a huge threat anyway. You don't risk losing tempo.
Basically, I run batterskull purely for SFM plays that occur on the first two turns. Anything later than that and I'd rather fetch a jitte, a sword or a plating.
Hmm...okay, you've sold me on Batterskull. I see why it can be better than Bonehoard, especially turn two. I don't run Ancient Tombs...but even if the token does eat removal, you're right, that's one removal spell that isn't hitting another more crucial card. And at the very least, I guess it's still Ravager fodder once the Germ token dies.
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I can only fit one sword in my deck, and I'm trying to figure out which is more beneficial/synergistic to the deck. I'm thinking really hard about it. =/
I also only have money for either/or. I can't afford the whole sword collection just yet. (I already own Sword of Body and Mind and a Sword of War and Peace.)
Pros of SoFaI:
1. Draw
2. Burn
3. Protection from Blue and Red. (Bounce, Merfolks, Burn, Grim Lavamancer, etc)
Cons:
Protection is against matchups that we are typically strong against, anyway. (Merfolk, Burn, Zoo) which makes it a meh-kind of protection.
Pros of SoLaS:
1. Lifegain (albeit small)
2. Able to return a creature card from graveyard to hand. Considering our creatures, will then be most likely casted into play on the same turn anyway.
3. Pro Black and White. Two colors with the strongest removal. (Protects from Dismember, Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, etc)
Cons:
If graveyard is empty, 2nd ability does nothing. Vault skirge can typically gain more life than this thing.
Basically, SoFaI = Better triggered abilities while SoLaS = better protection.
Which of the two swords would Affinity benefit the most from?
I'd pick Fire and Ice, since card advantage is huge in a deck that plays tons of stuff it wants to drop really quickly. Getting that Champion early can be really helpful, and from what I've seen of black in Legacy, they're more likely to go after your hand than your creatures (and if they go after your creatures, they're just as likely to make you sacrifice one as they are to directly pop it with something like Dismember).
I would also go with Fire and Ice, in general it is just the best of the swords.
And it's better in Affinity than Light and Shadow cause it supports the fast beatdown plan more.
But if your meta consists mainly of decks packing black and/or white removal Light and Shadow definitley has its values.
I'd like to thanks those who commented and showed their opinions on which sword to take.
You've convinced me to go for Sword of Fire and Ice. I'll now put effort into searching for it. Thanks again.
What about the newer swords? BaM seems weak here, but I'm thinking WaP specifically might be good. Pro-white is great, deals direct damage, and maybe gains you some life (though not much with this deck)
What about the newer swords? BaM seems weak here, but I'm thinking WaP specifically might be good. Pro-white is great, deals direct damage, and maybe gains you some life (though not much with this deck)
I currently run Body and Mind primarily for the fact that it gives me a body after swinging. The 10-mill is dependent on the opponent. Its like a double-edge sword.
I haven't tested how much damage War and Peace might do in actual games though. =/
I currently own BaM and WaP. is WaP really better, all around compared to BaM? and will it be better maindeck compared to FaI?
WaP would be very good against control decks. I think that if you get down an evasive guy with WaP by turn 4 you have won several matchups. Pro red and white will make for difficult removal, as white removal is generally played over black removal. I don't own the sword myself, but I suspect the extra damage would be very good, especially in close matchups. That sword really hurts control decks especially. I think its probably at the same level as FoI for us. It deals more damage usually and has a much more relevant protection, but at the cost of a generally weaker secondary ability. Without solid testing I cannot be sure, but I would guess it is as good as FoI at the minimum
WaP would be very good against control decks. I think that if you get down an evasive guy with WaP by turn 4 you have won several matchups. Pro red and white will make for difficult removal, as white removal is generally played over black removal. I don't own the sword myself, but I suspect the extra damage would be very good, especially in close matchups. That sword really hurts control decks especially. I think its probably at the same level as FoI for us. It deals more damage usually and has a much more relevant protection, but at the cost of a generally weaker secondary ability. Without solid testing I cannot be sure, but I would guess it is as good as FoI at the minimum
Thanks for your input.
I guess I'll test with WaP for now, while I'm waiting for my FaI.
Hey everyone. I've decided to take my first few baby steps into Legacy, starting with this deck type. I just did some testing with RaggedJoe's list (I'm unoriginal and wanted to get a feel for it first before experimenting) and have fallen in love with this deck.
As far as personal tweaks to it, go, has Inkmoth Nexus been considered at all? I notice the deck has a bit of issue with removal, so a fetchland that has the power for a one-hit kill with Cranial Plating could be an added edition? Just a little thought from a newb.
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Inkmoth Nexus has been discussed a lot, but generally isn't as useful as some mana ramp in the current meta. Even if it were useful, it would probably be better as a Blinkmoth Nexus because the deck has more effective options for ramping direct damage rather than poison. If Force of Will weren't such an effective answer to poison, it could be an option, but, well, it's there and you gotta deal with the "I win" condition being hard-countered. Thus you need "I win" redundancy conditions, and Inkmoth generally doesn't do that.
Inkmoth Nexus has been discussed a lot, but generally isn't as useful as some mana ramp in the current meta. Even if it were useful, it would probably be better as a Blinkmoth Nexus because the deck has more effective options for ramping direct damage rather than poison. If Force of Will weren't such an effective answer to poison, it could be an option, but, well, it's there and you gotta deal with the "I win" condition being hard-countered. Thus you need "I win" redundancy conditions, and Inkmoth generally doesn't do that.
Not sure I understand you... How does FoW answer poison? The issue with Inkmoth is that he doesn't contribute to the same wincon as everyone else, which slows u down. Also, if he gets Wasted it becomes a waste, and topdecking him when ur opp has 3 life n 0 poison kinda sucks
Chalice of the void/Ethersworn Canonist. But if your expecting a lot of decks like those, don't play Affinity We beat the tar out of decks like Dredge and Zoo and Tempo decks. Combo, not so much
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Vial is kinda slow, dies to misstep, and is all around a weaker card than Mox Opal in this deck really.
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0:
Memnite
Ornithopter
1:
Signal Pest
2:
Arcbound Ravager
Stoneforge Mystic
Vault Skirge
3:
Etched Champion
Master of Etherium
EDIT: On second thought that looks kinda terrible
Good catch It is a pretty sexy mana curve.... but not if your playing Vial.
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I'm playing around with the list, so far this is what I landed on:
4 Thoughtcast
4 Brainstorm
4 Frogmite
2 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault skirge
4 Cranial plating
4 Master of etherium
4 Force of will
4 Mox opal
4 Seat of the synod
4 vault of whispers
4 Ancient tomb
3 Darksteel citadel
The idea here is that you run heavy on the free drops as opposed to the more top heavy 3 drops most decks have been doing latley, this allows you to get a high artifact count early, but you can still also run in for damage with plating as needed.
You can use brainstorm and thoughtcast to get optimal drops turn one and have the best chances to sculpt your hand into a turn 2 tezzeret. You are now also running enough blue for the inclusion of Force of will to protect tezz.
The goal is to turn 3 ultimate for maximum profit. Even if it doesn't kill them, it will prevent you from dying while your skirges fly in for the win.
The deck can also run 4 opals since brainstorm can shove them back on top and tezzes +1 can get them out of the way. Brainstorm + Tezz is really strong, so much so i expect vintage will pick it up soon enough.
Anyways I have NO IDEA if this works, but it does look good on paper. Its using a bunch of cards that are typically considered to be strong as hell on there own, let along in a deck like this, and the inclusion of FOW protects the deck from null rod which is pretty big. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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*hangs head in shame*
Sorry bout that.
yup. Vial will actually set you back a turn since you'd be waiting on it to hit 2 or 3 before you can actually do anything.
someone already made a control-esque affinity list.
NeoFinnity
That list is doing something very different, in that it's trying to be a pure controlling build. MY above idea is more akin to combo since its all about getting stuff out for tezzes ultimate, but at the same time it still has the early game aggro. The FOWs are not for control, but to help establish and protect the combo as it were. That being said its still pure affinity, just with a different end game.
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Oh, I'm sorry for the mistake then. ><
I guess I misinterpreted your post wrongly.
Controllish Affinity builds normally like to play Erayo. For your particular deck, I'd say you probably won't be seeing a turn 2 Tez often enough to win via turn 3 ultimate.
Really? I've never seen someone play Erayo in a control build... usually its some jank UBg with Glimpse
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Sword of Fire and Ice
or
Sword of Light and Shadow?
I can only fit one sword in my deck, and I'm trying to figure out which is more beneficial/synergistic to the deck. I'm thinking really hard about it. =/
I also only have money for either/or. I can't afford the whole sword collection just yet. (I already own Sword of Body and Mind and a Sword of War and Peace.)
Pros of SoFaI:
1. Draw
2. Burn
3. Protection from Blue and Red. (Bounce, Merfolks, Burn, Grim Lavamancer, etc)
Cons:
Protection is against matchups that we are typically strong against, anyway. (Merfolk, Burn, Zoo) which makes it a meh-kind of protection.
Pros of SoLaS:
1. Lifegain (albeit small)
2. Able to return a creature card from graveyard to hand. Considering our creatures, will then be most likely casted into play on the same turn anyway.
3. Pro Black and White. Two colors with the strongest removal. (Protects from Dismember, Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, etc)
Cons:
If graveyard is empty, 2nd ability does nothing.
Vault skirge can typically gain more life than this thing.
Basically, SoFaI = Better triggered abilities while SoLaS = better protection.
Which of the two swords would Affinity benefit the most from?
3 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
3 Ancient Den
3 Glimmervoid
2 Darksteel Citadel
Creatures: 27
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Etched Champion
4 Thoughtcast
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Mox Opal
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Batterskull
Ravagers are back, I decided I missed them. I did find room for Mystics as well, and I want to try a singleton Batterskull to see how it works. I'm a little hesitant, since if the Mystic is killed before she can cheat Batterskull into play, then Batterskull becomes useless. But we'll see. I've also been considering Bonehoard as a more usable substitute for Batterskull, since the equip cost is manageable and the casting cost is one less. If the token gets killed, I can actually equip it to something else. I'd love to hear some other opinions on Bonehoard, though, perhaps I'm completely off-base. Or I can just run Sword of Fire and Ice.
@Alcarin: My vote goes to SoFaI, IF you're going to run a sword. It's the most aggressive of the swords, and lets you draw a card. SoLaS is much more defensive, and with this deck I don't think that's a position you want to be in. Maybe sideboard SoLaS, but run SoFaI main. However, have you considered the Living Weapon equipments before the swords? I know the swords give you better abilities, but the Living Weapons give you a creature and come pre-equipped, which might be more valuable. I like the swords, personally, but it's up to you.
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I also took out ravagers at one point, and put them back in. They are truly a creature that we miss.
I've tried bonehoard before, while it is awesome to fetch up mid-late game, I decided to run batterskull instead. Typically for the mid-late game i'll fetch up another plating or a jitte.
I run Batterskull because what if you get a hand with SFM-turn 1 or turn 2 able, but you don't expect to have a third manasource topdeck, anything you fetch essentially just sits in your hand. I've had games like this:
Ancient den, Mox Opal, SFM, Ornithopter, Memnite, Etched and MoE as starting 7 (or something similar.)
Land, Mox Opal, Memnite, Ornithopter then cast SFM. Fetch what? a sword or jitte? or maybe even Bonehoard? What if you don't draw a topdeck 2nd land? or springleaf drum? you'll be stuck with a board presence of An orni, a memnite and an SFM. Thats a weak board presence for turn two.
As opposed to if you have batterskull, atleast you'll have something threatening on turn 2. Even if it immediately eats removal, atleast your SFM didn't. It buys you time sometimes. Sure, the 5 equip is daunting but with Ancient Tombs, it shouldn't be that big a problem.
If you do fetch Batterskull and you DO get to draw out a manasource topdeck, then simply go for Turn 2 MoE or Etched Champ. Which is also a huge threat anyway. You don't risk losing tempo.
Basically, I run batterskull purely for SFM plays that occur on the first two turns. Anything later than that and I'd rather fetch a jitte, a sword or a plating.
I currently run batterskull as the only living weapon. I've looked at Necropouncer as a "possible", but it seems like a waste of space. Other living weapons are meh, aside from a late game bonehoard.
So that's 1 vote for SoFaI because of its abilities... Okay. Thanks for the comments.
Hmm...okay, you've sold me on Batterskull. I see why it can be better than Bonehoard, especially turn two. I don't run Ancient Tombs...but even if the token does eat removal, you're right, that's one removal spell that isn't hitting another more crucial card. And at the very least, I guess it's still Ravager fodder once the Germ token dies.
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I'd pick Fire and Ice, since card advantage is huge in a deck that plays tons of stuff it wants to drop really quickly. Getting that Champion early can be really helpful, and from what I've seen of black in Legacy, they're more likely to go after your hand than your creatures (and if they go after your creatures, they're just as likely to make you sacrifice one as they are to directly pop it with something like Dismember).
And it's better in Affinity than Light and Shadow cause it supports the fast beatdown plan more.
But if your meta consists mainly of decks packing black and/or white removal Light and Shadow definitley has its values.
You've convinced me to go for Sword of Fire and Ice. I'll now put effort into searching for it. Thanks again.
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I currently run Body and Mind primarily for the fact that it gives me a body after swinging. The 10-mill is dependent on the opponent. Its like a double-edge sword.
I haven't tested how much damage War and Peace might do in actual games though. =/
I currently own BaM and WaP. is WaP really better, all around compared to BaM? and will it be better maindeck compared to FaI?
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Thanks for your input.
I guess I'll test with WaP for now, while I'm waiting for my FaI.
As far as personal tweaks to it, go, has Inkmoth Nexus been considered at all? I notice the deck has a bit of issue with removal, so a fetchland that has the power for a one-hit kill with Cranial Plating could be an added edition? Just a little thought from a newb.
Not sure I understand you... How does FoW answer poison? The issue with Inkmoth is that he doesn't contribute to the same wincon as everyone else, which slows u down. Also, if he gets Wasted it becomes a waste, and topdecking him when ur opp has 3 life n 0 poison kinda sucks
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