So i had a rare moment of clarity today and i thought of something i have not yet seen talked about on this thread. This very specifically goes out to thoes running ancient tombs in their deck.
Has anyone tried running gaea's cradle? I know the green mana is probably as good as colorless, but many affinity matches see the affinity player slamming down 2-3 creatures on turn one, which probably makes the cradle as good if not better than an ancient tomb. In most cases it will be a tomb with out the life loss (relevant) but sometimes it's going to land you a turn 1 etched champion or an already equipped cranial plating.
On account of its legendary status, I can't see myself running more than 1, but at the same time because of its power level I have to believe running 1 is the right thing to do. What do people think?
hive mind seems to become populor du to some good result in SCG opens... do we are just bye on a stick for hive mind.deck?
Also, here what I think I will do my sideboard
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Cabal therapy
2 Pithing Needle
1 Retribution of the Meek (NO ans show seems to become very popular, thinking about fitting a second one but the SB seems too tight)
3 Disenchant
3 graveyard hate (which one?)
still think about EC number 3, but 1)I don't find room and 2) too many 3-drops seems not that good for the deck
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm at first a french speaking person, so sorry for my bad english and thanks for your understanding
So i had a rare moment of clarity today and i thought of something i have not yet seen talked about on this thread. This very specifically goes out to thoes running ancient tombs in their deck.
Has anyone tried running gaea's cradle? I know the green mana is probably as good as colorless, but many affinity matches see the affinity player slamming down 2-3 creatures on turn one, which probably makes the cradle as good if not better than an ancient tomb. In most cases it will be a tomb with out the life loss (relevant) but sometimes it's going to land you a turn 1 etched champion or an already equipped cranial plating.
On account of its legendary status, I can't see myself running more than 1, but at the same time because of its power level I have to believe running 1 is the right thing to do. What do people think?
you probably won't see it often if you run 1-off, at the same time the chances of you getting it when you need it (early turns, 1-3) are low. Add to the fact that the chances of getting it in a hand you actually can use it to accelerate with is low as well...
It's also a terrible top-deck on later turns.
I think it would slow you down more than it will help. =/
thats just my opinion on the matter, though.
I haven't tested it myself.
Been thinking too, I wish there was a cheaper cmc alternative to trinket mage. =/
Being able to fetch particular lands when we need it would be great. ><
I just found Tariff wich could be another good Sideboard Card against Show and Tell, NO and other decks that drop an early Emrakul or Progenitus.
What do you think? Especially people who have already tested Retribution of the Meek. Could this be better than RotM?
Edit:
Regarding Gaea's Cradle and @Alcarin: Most of us only play two Ancient Tombs, the chance to have them in your first two Turns is also not that high. And as a topdeck Ancient Tomb is as bad as Cradle would be. But sometimes I think I would prefer Ancient tomb, especially in a slow hand with none or only one 0-drop creature.
But one Cradle instead of a Tomb is a thing that should be tested imho.
I just found Tariff wich could be another good Sideboard Card against Show and Tell, NO and other decks that drop an early Emrakul or Progenitus.
What do you think? Especially people who have already tested Retribution of the Meek. Could this be better than RotM?
Edit:
Regarding Gaea's Cradle and @Alcarin: Most of us only play two Ancient Tombs, the chance to have them in your first two Turns is also not that high. And as a topdeck Ancient Tomb is as bad as Cradle would be. But sometimes I think I would prefer Ancient tomb, especially in a slow hand with none or only one 0-drop creature.
But one Cradle instead of a Tomb is a thing that should be tested imho.
Yes, quite true that the chances are not that high, but consider games where you have just 1 0 drop, a gea's cradle and a 2 drop like ravager or plating. You just stopped yourself stone cold right there as opposed to having tomb.
tomb atleast gives some sort of consistency (Always giving 2 mana) for some lifeloss. Where as cradle might give you assloads of mana (which typically you won't get to use anyway) but for the sacrifice of consistency.
If someone has cradle though, please do test and give your feedback. They cost around 2k (more or less 50+USD) from where I'm from and I can't shell out that much, even if it proves to be good.
Yea I just ordered one for my deck I'm so confident it will pay off, and if not there is always edh. And like I said, it's is to be used besides tombs and your regular land base, not supplanting them. More often than not i think 2 things will happen:
Cradle will be in your opening hand and youll get 2-3 mana out of it. even if you cant use all of it, you have saved yourself 2 life. It will allow some plays where you get a turn 1 etched champion or even tezz. (mox, cradle, springleaf, 3 thopter creatures, tezz. Unlikely but possible now as opposed to completely impossible.)
or
Cradle wouldn't pay off turn 1 so you wait a turn and play a seat turn 1 instead. on later turns is a safer tomb.
The nice interactions with cradle as well are that it works under a null rod for green so you can run kgrip or natures claim off it if you wanted to.
Yea I just ordered one for my deck I'm so confident it will pay off, and if not there is always edh. And like I said, it's is to be used besides tombs and your regular land base, not supplanting them. More often than not i think 2 things will happen:
Cradle will be in your opening hand and youll get 2-3 mana out of it. even if you cant use all of it, you have saved yourself 2 life. It will allow some plays where you get a turn 1 etched champion or even tezz. (mox, cradle, springleaf, 3 thopter creatures, tezz. Unlikely but possible now as opposed to completely impossible.)
or
Cradle wouldn't pay off turn 1 so you wait a turn and play a seat turn 1 instead. on later turns is a safer tomb.
The nice interactions with cradle as well are that it works under a null rod for green so you can run kgrip or natures claim off it if you wanted to.
Running K.Grip is indeed enticing... Especially since Null Rod doesn't kill Cradle...
I look forward to your test results.
Gaea's Cradle is interesting. As the game progresses, it get's better but doesn't give a usable color. If it added B instead of G I would want four of it, but as it stands I think only one or two could possibly fit.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Gaea's Cradle is interesting. As the game progresses, it get's better but doesn't give a usable color. If it added B instead of G I would want four of it, but as it stands I think only one or two could possibly fit.
Gaea's Cradle is interesting. As the game progresses, it get's better but doesn't give a usable color. If it added B instead of G I would want four of it, but as it stands I think only one or two could possibly fit.
Not that it will happen all that often, but a turn one hand with a cradle, 4-5 Thopter, memnites, and no more than one frogmite, and a batterskull works. If you really want to up your chances of that you could run:
Just throwing ideas out there...but if you're playing green, why not add things like 1-2 collective consciousness, recycle or hell, even glimpse of nature?
I realize that the first two are ridiculously expensive to play. Like i said, just throwing some ideas out there.
I'm currently in the process of building a TezzFinity deck, and I'm curious how powerful this deck is? I guess I should have thought about that before starting my trades, but c'est la vie.
It's very powerful. Against an unexacting meta, you will simply start smashing things. Merfolk doesn't stand a chance without 3-4 Energy Flux. Creature-based decks such as Zoo and Maverick are also favorable. With the right sb tweaks you can race burn and ANT/TES, and Dredge. It's possible to even beat Belcher on the draw (I would not mention this except I recently beat a turn 1 10 gobs on the draw in a tourniment... You never know). Tezz eats people alive, and with Ravager and Champ you won't see much splash damage from people with Jitte on the sb. We also largely ignore Moat, Meekstone, and Ensnaring Bridge. I have been playing this deck literally since it's conception, but I would say I win over 75% of game 1s, and around that many matches where the opponent doesn't have dedicated Affinity hate. Dedicated hate makes it harder, but not impossible, to have a favorable win percentage. My own DCI record is in the title of my list in the primer, and I would say that at the beginning I was ~50-10 (this deck emerged when counterbalance was big, and you will notice we do not play well with cb).
Just throwing ideas out there...but if you're playing green, why not add things like 1-2 collective consciousness, recycle or hell, even glimpse of nature?
I realize that the first two are ridiculously expensive to play. Like i said, just throwing some ideas out there.
If you really wanted to do something silly, then just run Garruk. Drawn 12 cards? Sure! But no player would ever let that resolve.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Also, I am going to finally get my hands on another set of Dark Confidant, since they would be a good investment to buy now. I will be testing them in this deck since the overall CMC has dropped dramatically, and we have Vault Skirge to gain back life.
Bob is amazing he adds a whole new level of consistency that this deck has needed, I suggest everyone at the very least test him. If you have dropped all your "affinity" cards.
Gaea's Cradle also seems good but I never have a mana base problem so it seems extraneous. If I used it, it would be one of and replace a Springleaf Drum.
I always enjoy criticism on my decks, so fire away.
:symu::symg::symb:Sir, may I see your graveyard(Mimeoplasm):symb::symg::symu:
:symw::symw::symw:Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker:symw::symw::symw:
:symu::symb::symu:Oona, Queen of the Faye:symu::symb::symu:
@DeepIntoDementia
First things first: your deck is below 60 cards, I think you missed some cards.
On card choices:
Split Champ and MoE 4/3, 4/2, or 3/3, but you don't want to play 8 3-drops, it makes the deck to slow.
Also Memnite is a must, because without it,we are too slow. Our 0-drops and 1-drops are what makes this deck so fast, and enables Mox Opal on turn 1.
And Ravager is a must play in my opinion, you can do so many combat tricks with a Ravager. He can push through lots of damage, blocks so Jitte doesn't get counters (as Joe already said), saves other guys or eats them so removal is just half as bad. All in all he gives your opponents a really hard time.
@CrimsonViper
Yes, Platings activated Ability for BB has no restrictions, so you may activate it anytime you could play an instant.
@Deep: Basically, there are two directions you can take your list. As has been said, Memnite is a necessity for speed and consistency reasons. For the same reason, you do need to play some Springleaf Drums. I like a 4/2 or 3/3 mox/drum split myself. Next is where you have to decide weather to go with my style (traditional) or Alcarin's (SFM). You can see each of our lists in the primer. I have found that in either build you want Ravager. The versatility provided by Ravager is just too much to ignore, and then on top of that you get yet another way to blank Jitte, AND a shot at actually winning game 1 vs dredge. If you do decide to go with my style, I would suggest a total of 6 3-drops for curve reasons, with my enthusiastic support going towards 4/2 split, Champ/MoE
recently i've been doing some testing using only 2 Memnites on my list, and its working out very well for me.
I mean, he is a horrible top deck, and he can only carry his weight if there is a signal pest on the battlefield.
In my opinion, we gain more than we lose by cutting 2 memnites and making room for other stuff, like 2 SFM or more dispatch or whatever.
anyway, 6 0-drops is more than enough to activate your mox opal.
My list is looking like that.
I think the trade between memnite and SFM is worth it, since he don't really adds that much to the deck. And a bit more consistency on getting your cranial platings on the battlefield is better than having a higher probability of 2 mana open with mox, turn 1. (not counting Opening 7 with Ancient tombs..)
keep in mind the awful top deck that memnite is, and the "not so bad" that SFM is.
regarding my list, i could cut the third Ravager for a jitte, but i haven't tested it yet.
How good SFM did? If the opp kill her, we seems to lose SOOOO MUCH tempo, with I don't feel is great when we trash our hand on the bf...
Its not that much of a loss in tempo. It really depends on how courageous you are or how much you can read your opponent. Enemy with lots of removal? Fetch a Cranial Plating or a Jitte for minimum tempo loss. Its still 2 to cast, anyway. If they kill your SFM, just play the equipment.
Turn 1 SFM with you on play, and you see your opponent react with a sigh or a facepalm? Seems like he doesn't have spot removal to take care of your SFM. Go with Batterskull! SFM brings to the table mind games, something Affinity was never known for after damage-on-the-stack was removed.
Another citation that happens to me often: SFM and Batterskull in opening hand, play SFM search up a jitte or a sword. A turn later, put Batterskull down. surprise! The opposite can be done as well! Search up batterskul, play a jitte, plating or sword. SURPRISE again!
If played correctly, SFM isn't tempo loss. At most, it's a fearsome BFF for Batterskull. At the very least, its a magnet for removal which is fine since it means our plating'ed critters can swing. It's about how you play it.
My list is looking like that.
I think the trade between memnite and SFM is worth it, since he don't really adds that much to the deck. And a bit more consistency on getting your cranial platings on the battlefield is better than having a higher probability of 2 mana open with mox, turn 1. (not counting Opening 7 with Ancient tombs..)
keep in mind the awful top deck that memnite is, and the "not so bad" that SFM is.
regarding my list, i could cut the third Ravager for a jitte, but i haven't tested it yet.
PS: Sorry for my terrible english =p
Personally, I run 3 Ornithopters and 4 Memnites, instead of what you've done here, which is the opposite. Why? Memnite might be a terrible topdeck, but its still a creature that can swing on its own. Its still a body that can possibly trade. Most importantly, it can carry a jitte on his own. (Orni and pest can't)
I also don't run signal pests. They can clog up the hand and require other creatures on the board to be effective. If I were to replace something for SFM, it would be signal pest. If you're running SFM, I believe we have enough evasive creatures (Vault skirge, Ornithopter and Etched Champions) to make do. Signal Pest finds its value in non-SFM versions where every point of damage is key and tantamount to victory.
Since we can fish out our platings, We don't need the battlecry. (Just my opinion) Besides, an Opponent isn't really that afraid of Signal Pest, IMO. He'll just take out your other relevant creatures instead.
Again, I am by no means an expert on this. I just reply with my opinion and my thoughts on the matter. Feel free to do what you find suits you best.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Has anyone tried running gaea's cradle? I know the green mana is probably as good as colorless, but many affinity matches see the affinity player slamming down 2-3 creatures on turn one, which probably makes the cradle as good if not better than an ancient tomb. In most cases it will be a tomb with out the life loss (relevant) but sometimes it's going to land you a turn 1 etched champion or an already equipped cranial plating.
On account of its legendary status, I can't see myself running more than 1, but at the same time because of its power level I have to believe running 1 is the right thing to do. What do people think?
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
Also, here what I think I will do my sideboard
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Cabal therapy
2 Pithing Needle
1 Retribution of the Meek (NO ans show seems to become very popular, thinking about fitting a second one but the SB seems too tight)
3 Disenchant
3 graveyard hate (which one?)
still think about EC number 3, but 1)I don't find room and 2) too many 3-drops seems not that good for the deck
you probably won't see it often if you run 1-off, at the same time the chances of you getting it when you need it (early turns, 1-3) are low. Add to the fact that the chances of getting it in a hand you actually can use it to accelerate with is low as well...
It's also a terrible top-deck on later turns.
I think it would slow you down more than it will help. =/
thats just my opinion on the matter, though.
I haven't tested it myself.
Been thinking too, I wish there was a cheaper cmc alternative to trinket mage. =/
Being able to fetch particular lands when we need it would be great. ><
What do you think? Especially people who have already tested Retribution of the Meek. Could this be better than RotM?
Edit:
Regarding Gaea's Cradle and @Alcarin: Most of us only play two Ancient Tombs, the chance to have them in your first two Turns is also not that high. And as a topdeck Ancient Tomb is as bad as Cradle would be. But sometimes I think I would prefer Ancient tomb, especially in a slow hand with none or only one 0-drop creature.
But one Cradle instead of a Tomb is a thing that should be tested imho.
Yes, quite true that the chances are not that high, but consider games where you have just 1 0 drop, a gea's cradle and a 2 drop like ravager or plating. You just stopped yourself stone cold right there as opposed to having tomb.
tomb atleast gives some sort of consistency (Always giving 2 mana) for some lifeloss. Where as cradle might give you assloads of mana (which typically you won't get to use anyway) but for the sacrifice of consistency.
If someone has cradle though, please do test and give your feedback. They cost around 2k (more or less 50+USD) from where I'm from and I can't shell out that much, even if it proves to be good.
Cradle will be in your opening hand and youll get 2-3 mana out of it. even if you cant use all of it, you have saved yourself 2 life. It will allow some plays where you get a turn 1 etched champion or even tezz. (mox, cradle, springleaf, 3 thopter creatures, tezz. Unlikely but possible now as opposed to completely impossible.)
or
Cradle wouldn't pay off turn 1 so you wait a turn and play a seat turn 1 instead. on later turns is a safer tomb.
The nice interactions with cradle as well are that it works under a null rod for green so you can run kgrip or natures claim off it if you wanted to.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
Running K.Grip is indeed enticing... Especially since Null Rod doesn't kill Cradle...
I look forward to your test results.
*What I really want to do (with Gaea's Cradle) is cast Batterskull past a Null Rod.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
The removal of mana burn makes it viable.
Not that it will happen all that often, but a turn one hand with a cradle, 4-5 Thopter, memnites, and no more than one frogmite, and a batterskull works. If you really want to up your chances of that you could run:
4 Tree of tales
4 Seat of the synod
4 Crop rotation
3 Mox opal
1 Myr Enforcer
4 Thoughtcast
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnites
4 Phyrexian walker
4 Frogmite
4 Springleaf drum
4 Batterskull
4 Glimpse of nature
4 Signal Pest
4 Cranial plating
Not saying that's competitive in the least, but that being said cradle seems pretty damn easy to abuse with this many free guys.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
I realize that the first two are ridiculously expensive to play. Like i said, just throwing some ideas out there.
I like Turtles
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
If you really wanted to do something silly, then just run Garruk. Drawn 12 cards? Sure! But no player would ever let that resolve.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Agreed. I feel such cards would over-all weaken the deck my decreasing the threat concentration, while making you simultaneously easier to disrupt.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Glimmervoid
3 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
Creatures:
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Vault Skirge
4 Signal Pest
4 Etched Champion
3 Arcbound Ravager
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Cranial Platting
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Draw Power:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Nature's Claim
3 Meekstone
3 Ethersworn Canonist
Also, I am going to finally get my hands on another set of Dark Confidant, since they would be a good investment to buy now. I will be testing them in this deck since the overall CMC has dropped dramatically, and we have Vault Skirge to gain back life.
Bob is amazing he adds a whole new level of consistency that this deck has needed, I suggest everyone at the very least test him. If you have dropped all your "affinity" cards.
Gaea's Cradle also seems good but I never have a mana base problem so it seems extraneous. If I used it, it would be one of and replace a Springleaf Drum.
I always enjoy criticism on my decks, so fire away.
:symb::symb::symb:The Gate:symb::symb::symb:
:xmana::xmana::xmana:Affinity:xmana::xmana::xmana:
:symu::symw:W/U Liquid Swords:symw::symu:
:symg::symr::symw::symb:Aggro Loam:symb::symw::symr::symg:
Leveling Towards:
:symw::symw::symw:Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker:symw::symw::symw:
:symu::symb::symu:Oona, Queen of the Faye:symu::symb::symu:
First things first: your deck is below 60 cards, I think you missed some cards.
On card choices:
Split Champ and MoE 4/3, 4/2, or 3/3, but you don't want to play 8 3-drops, it makes the deck to slow.
Also Memnite is a must, because without it,we are too slow. Our 0-drops and 1-drops are what makes this deck so fast, and enables Mox Opal on turn 1.
And Ravager is a must play in my opinion, you can do so many combat tricks with a Ravager. He can push through lots of damage, blocks so Jitte doesn't get counters (as Joe already said), saves other guys or eats them so removal is just half as bad. All in all he gives your opponents a really hard time.
@CrimsonViper
Yes, Platings activated Ability for BB has no restrictions, so you may activate it anytime you could play an instant.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
I mean, he is a horrible top deck, and he can only carry his weight if there is a signal pest on the battlefield.
In my opinion, we gain more than we lose by cutting 2 memnites and making room for other stuff, like 2 SFM or more dispatch or whatever.
anyway, 6 0-drops is more than enough to activate your mox opal.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
4 Ornithopter
2 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
3 Etched Champion
3 Master of Etherium
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Arcbound Ravager
Spells:
4 Mox Opal
2 Dispatch
3 Springleaf Drums
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Vault of Whispers
3 Darksteel Citadel
3 Glimmervoid
3 Ancient tomb
3 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Nature's Claim
2 Dispatch
My list is looking like that.
I think the trade between memnite and SFM is worth it, since he don't really adds that much to the deck. And a bit more consistency on getting your cranial platings on the battlefield is better than having a higher probability of 2 mana open with mox, turn 1. (not counting Opening 7 with Ancient tombs..)
keep in mind the awful top deck that memnite is, and the "not so bad" that SFM is.
regarding my list, i could cut the third Ravager for a jitte, but i haven't tested it yet.
PS: Sorry for my terrible english =p
Its not that much of a loss in tempo. It really depends on how courageous you are or how much you can read your opponent. Enemy with lots of removal? Fetch a Cranial Plating or a Jitte for minimum tempo loss. Its still 2 to cast, anyway. If they kill your SFM, just play the equipment.
Turn 1 SFM with you on play, and you see your opponent react with a sigh or a facepalm? Seems like he doesn't have spot removal to take care of your SFM. Go with Batterskull! SFM brings to the table mind games, something Affinity was never known for after damage-on-the-stack was removed.
Another citation that happens to me often: SFM and Batterskull in opening hand, play SFM search up a jitte or a sword. A turn later, put Batterskull down. surprise! The opposite can be done as well! Search up batterskul, play a jitte, plating or sword. SURPRISE again!
If played correctly, SFM isn't tempo loss. At most, it's a fearsome BFF for Batterskull. At the very least, its a magnet for removal which is fine since it means our plating'ed critters can swing. It's about how you play it.
Personally, I run 3 Ornithopters and 4 Memnites, instead of what you've done here, which is the opposite. Why? Memnite might be a terrible topdeck, but its still a creature that can swing on its own. Its still a body that can possibly trade. Most importantly, it can carry a jitte on his own. (Orni and pest can't)
I also don't run signal pests. They can clog up the hand and require other creatures on the board to be effective. If I were to replace something for SFM, it would be signal pest. If you're running SFM, I believe we have enough evasive creatures (Vault skirge, Ornithopter and Etched Champions) to make do. Signal Pest finds its value in non-SFM versions where every point of damage is key and tantamount to victory.
Since we can fish out our platings, We don't need the battlecry. (Just my opinion) Besides, an Opponent isn't really that afraid of Signal Pest, IMO. He'll just take out your other relevant creatures instead.
Again, I am by no means an expert on this. I just reply with my opinion and my thoughts on the matter. Feel free to do what you find suits you best.