Question for you guys: do you think Daze is absolutely necessary in non-tempo lists? I'm a long time RUG player but I'm planning on running UR Delver at GP DC, going the heavier burn/Goblin Guide route. I'm tempted to run additional burn over Daze.
When I play UR Delver burn, I didn't play Daze at all. You want your lands in the battlefield and not in the hand. Consider that I didn't play Wasteland and Stifle too. I was on a plan with Chain Lighting and Price of Progress, very similar to Andrew Schneider List. If you go to a Wasteland+Stifle plan, I consider always play a full playset of Daze.
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The Izmagnus are the most powerful members of the Izmundi
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes Commander: Locust God
I will test it with my friends. I'm thinking in a make a counterburn style with True Name Nemesis. Maybe I play Goblin Guide in the list, because it's very powerful synergi with Price of Progress.
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The Izmagnus are the most powerful members of the Izmundi
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes Commander: Locust God
After much testing, I've determined that Goblin Guide is one of the stronger cards in the deck, while young pyromancer tends to leave you overextended.
Snaps > Pyromancer any day of the week. I wouldn't want to cut Guide if I could help it.
Im about to try a new lineup for my UR Delver deck, I've been playing it's slightly different versions for a while
4x Kiln fiend
4x Goblin guide
4x Delver
4x chain lightning
4x Lightning bolt
4x Price of progress
2x spell pierce
4x FOW
4x Daze
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Gitaxian Probe
4x Scalding tarn
2x Ilha
2x Montanha
2x Volcanic Island
3x Arid Mesa
3x Misty rainforest
I've been thinking about getting a fireblast (since I've only got mountains to spend one, considering my opponent will probably waste a volcanic island)
Also getting some Thunderous Wrath... I haven't seen many decklists with it, and I think its very useful since its 5 damage for 1cc and we've got brainstorms, so it usually wont be a problem sticking with it until the end without casting. The only issue is that it usually isnt worth hitting a creature, so its like a 5 damage harder to cast price of progress
Still, I really enjoy direct burn so I think thunderous wrath may find a place in the UR Delver list
I've sometimes found it hard to kill the opponent in few turns, when I had only Young Piromancer and Delvers on the deck. Now I took off the wastelands, stifles, piromancer and put chain lightning, goblin guide and Kiln fiend (I'm kinda new to this card, so I'm testing it as it seems to have great potential). With the old decklist, the game used to last enought so that my dazes and spellpierces lost their potential and the opponent used to win the game in that stage
About the 2 volcanic islands, I think with my price of progress and wastelands on the enemy side its really smarter to avoid non-basic lands. If I get only enought fetch lands to get a mountain and an Island, I just go back to basics. Still, if I have to get a volcanic island, there isnt really need for more than 2 of them and the rest filling with basic lands
Oh, and this is going to sound stupid, but are there any good sideboard cards for dealing with burn? There's a lot of it around here because the Legacy scene is still undeveloped.
I'm playing a similar deck to the lists that Andrew Schneider, Dennis Taylor etc. have had success with in the Star City tournaments. What matchups do we side in the 3-4 Lavaspikes that are in the sideboards of those lists?
Hey guys! I got to play a slightly more burn-oriented build in the last month, and it had a really great result in a championship (second of 17, which for me is great as I had never had good results like this)
Thunderous Wrath may not always be available for casting, but its 5 damage straight to the opponent's head (if you got it in your hand you may just brainstorm it back to the top). I even killed one Elesh nor and one Griselbrand using 2 thunderous wrath and 2 lightning bolt (had to do it so that he wouldn't kill me).
Thunderous Wrath is not exactly easy to cast and it cant be flashbacked via Snapcaster (unless you get all the 6 managenerator lands on the battlefield), but I really think its worth it. Some people prefer lavaspike because its always available, but I think getting a 2/3 stronger spell is worth this risk
Its great because almost all your topdecks are good, and my opponents always thought that I was lucky, but then I realized that almost everything there is really helpful along the way
The games never lasted too long, price of progress was just amazing. The critical point here is to notice when your opponent is going to the basic way and side it out in G2/G3
About the 16 lands, more than this would be a waste. Since opponents usually cant waste you up (sometimes you will have to fetch up the volcanics, but you really must avoid it) and you dont have non-managenerating lands (wasteland), 16 is a good number (the same thing as a 20-lands-with-4wasteland)
About the side some people used to get smash to smithereens (me included) but you have to keep in mind that you will have very few chances of winning against a batterskull or a jitte, or even chalice of the void. Then the replicate just almost ensures you that you will destroy the artifact (since the opponent will have to counter the 2 or more spells, or that the chalice wont counter copys of the spell)
Relic may seem like a temporary solution, but its a great one. Having one on the battlefield just gives the opponent real pressure and in the end... you buy a card! Until now its been really great as its also a good choise also against BUG/RUG
I guess the manabase for black would be a little awkward if you sided in thoughtseizes and depended on them more than just playing some bobs. Maybe it would be cool to balance a little more the fetchlands, maybe take off an island and a mountain and put a swamp. You wouldn't ever need more than 1 black mana in each turn, and for normal decks with no basic LD the swamp would be indestructible. Maybe it would be cool to put an underground sea... My idea of manabase would be the following:
Lands 16
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
Guys please gimme your insights about this deck, I really think the black splash has a potential. Greatness, at any cost!
Hi. I'm decently experienced Burn player in Legacy. Recently, I began to get a little bored with my old Burn deck and decided to see if maybe I'd like to play UR instead. I proxied up the cards that I was missing to match a recent SCG top 16 list and I have to say that I loved the way that the deck played out. I think I'm sold on changing over from Burn to UR. So my question is this.
Does anyone have any specific starter advice/tips for the deck?
Follow up question - how do you feel about the popularity of Lava Spike in sideboards?
How is the Jund matchup? I just played it against Jund for the first time with this deck and lost, I felt like I had some really unlucky draws, plus never saw Price of Progress. I feel like the deck should have the ability to do decent against Jund though, hopefully I can get a few games in against it again sometime soon to see. What's the post board strategy against them?
In the jund thread they say that UR Delver is a really bad matchup for them, that we are just too fast for them and that Price of Progress is the card they fear the most.
I'm not all sure how to sideboard against jund (does anyone else have some experience to share?), but the Force of Wills definitely needs to come out. I think this is one of those matchups Andrew Schneider would side in the Lava spikes to try to burn them down as fast as possible. I guess Submerge could be sided in to take care of Tarmogoyf, but I'm quite sure at least Andrew Schneider would rather have more burn and place his bets on the goyfs being to slow to make a big difference.
I'm just beginning with the deck, but that sounds reasonable. I'm operating off of the Schneider list as a base for my own and bringing in more Burn seems to be the best strategy for that list. I would side out the Forces for Lava Spikes. I would also try to side in any extra Price of Progress I had, but I'm not sure what to cut for that. Maybe a Daze or a Forked Bolt??? I'm not sure what would be best for that...
The Dark Depths / Thespian's Stage combo is a big problem here for my non-Wasteland Guide/PoP version. They can get that flying 20/20 token out very early and we don't have an answer for it. Perhaps switch out the Forked Bolt with Fire // Ice ? Vapor Snag would also be very nice in those situations.
I've been running this deck since mid September. it started off as just as many counters as I could pack with some delvers, bolt, and goblin guides for aggro. (at the time my local meta was something like 80% combo and the heavy counters were amazing.) After my meta evened out I swapped to a similar list to what most people run from what I'm seeing here. I run the no stifle/waste build with Price of Progress/goblin guide. I've found the best creature base for me has been:
the only thing I often question is daze. I love it against combo, I like it early game, but when I hit one after about turn 3 it's usually just FoW food. what is every one else's opinion on it? I saw people find FoW to be one of the worse cards of the deck but I rarely if ever see one and don't want it and I run the full 4 main. My current counter package is:
Main:
I'm thinking about cutting a daze for a spell snare to try it out and if I like it dropping both for it, I feel like with Stoneforge Mystic being so popular it's strong and it plays nicer with snapcaster mage.
The other problem I'm having is what to do for Graveyard hate. I'm running Relic of Progenitus but with 4 snapcasters and 3 lavamancers they hurt me more then a little. I do like them because they're strong vs Tarmogoyf and Deathrite shaman but I'm pretty strong in most match ups I see those two in anyhow. I've thought about Grafdigger's cage and tormod's crypt but I'm not completely sold on either. I need the GY hate because there is a bit of dredge & loam stuff about and dredge particularly is a rough match up. any suggestions?
The Dark Depths / Thespian's Stage combo is a big problem here for my non-Wasteland Guide/PoP version. They can get that flying 20/20 token out very early and we don't have an answer for it. Perhaps switch out the Forked Bolt with Fire // Ice ? Vapor Snag would also be very nice in those situations.
Yeah I dropped the forked bolt for a fire // ice. I've not had any one pull off the depths combo on me but I can say I'm loving the Fire over forked bolt just for the instant speed. equipment is huge around my way and I've found myself a few times trying to pick the creature(s) to burn off while knowing Jitte/Cranial plating/Sword of ___ and ____ is just getting put on a different creature. being able to burn the creatures at instant speed helps alot. Though I do wonder the decks you face that have the depths combo can't you just burn them out with PoP quickly? I've got 3 main 1 sb with 4 snapcasters and most of the time I can get 2 PoP off for the kill on those decks before they can get the pieces together.
Jacob Kory took the 2nd place at the SCG Los Angeles Legacy Open yesterday with a Goblin Guide/Price of Progress version of the deck! Most noteworthy in his decklist, he didn't play any Daze at all, but played 4 Gitaxian Probe and 4 Ponder.
I'm currently testing out a 1-of each of Fire//Ice and Vapor Snag in the maindeck of my Goblin Guide list. I'm really like each more than Forked Bolt in my testing so far. I got to experience how good occasionally Vapor Snagging your own Snapcaster Mage can be last night.
Though I do wonder the decks you face that have the depths combo can't you just burn them out with PoP quickly? I've got 3 main 1 sb with 4 snapcasters and most of the time I can get 2 PoP off for the kill on those decks before they can get the pieces together.
In the matches I've played against these decks, they've got Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage out very early (like turn 2/3/4), much too fast for me to burn them down. Maybe they've been lucky against me. If they have both of these lands in their opening hand, there's nothing we can do when we don't play Wasteland or Blood Moon. Most other decks have better answers to this (Abrupt Decay, Lingering Souls, Wasteland etc.)than we do. You may be lucky with a counterspell at their Crop Rotation/ Gamble etc. or a Submerge (they don't always have forest in play as they they have other sources of green mana, including Lotus Petal/Mox Diamond etc.)
so i am new to legacy but i know i wanna play u/r delver i just dont know which version to build their is the wasteland stifle version or the price of progress chain lightning version im leaning towards the burn but i just wanna know is one of them better than the other or is it a metagame thing
so i am new to legacy but i know i wanna play u/r delver i just dont know which version to build their is the wasteland stifle version or the price of progress chain lightning version im leaning towards the burn but i just wanna know is one of them better than the other or is it a metagame thing
You got to choose how you wanna play
I play a very straight deck, which seems more like a UR Burn Delver deck (I guess this thread is more like a U/R/x Delver deck than a Snapcaster, as we are talking mostly of UR decks, and in UR decks Snapcaster isnt a core card).
I took off FOW because its mostly on my sides, as the meta isnt so combo-oriented. I got 2 more burning spells
What I like of my current decklist is that it's topdeck is REALLY GOOD! for a delver deck, since there are 8 cantrips (which mostly will find burn spells), 18 burn spells and 4 haste creatures. I mean, people usually say I'm too lucky for getting the right spells at the right time. But I guess its what this decklist does.
Not having FoW and having Fluster in main might sound Weird, but its about the meta. There are a lot of delver decks, which mean a loooot of sorceries and instants, so I play fluster
There arent too many GY oriented decks, so I play only 1 relic (thinking of dropping it to 0), and reanimators can be countered. Got some UWR and artifact-based decks (chalice for 1, ewww) so I play shattering spree. Misdirection is too good to be truth when it gets it right (misdirection on hymn to tourach is like GG, or changing target of abrupt decay from delver to goyf... yeah, lots of BUG Delver around here)
Pyrokinesis is for goblins, elves and delver decks (2 insectile aberration in 1 free shot)
Submerge, yeah, bounce and 1 turn back and FOW for combo matchups
Its more about what YOU want and about the meta around you. But I will say, UR Delver is a pretty fast Delver deck, it just burns your enemies before they ever realize and got counter backups against strong decks
I'm really thinking about getting more counter for side against combo decks (from 4 to 6 or 8), to get a lot of counters and like 1 or 2 creatures hitting while you hold the combo back with counters
EDIT: I just realized it turned from U/x Snapcaster to U/r/x Delver
I can see Dack being an option for play in this deck either main or sideboard. His +1 provides fuel for Snapcaster while simultaneously sculpting our hand. And his -2 is relevant against several Legacy decks.
I can see Dack being an option for play in this deck either main or sideboard. His +1 provides fuel for Snapcaster while simultaneously sculpting our hand. And his -2 is relevant against several Legacy decks.
Seems cool, but snapcaster and dack on the same deck? I mean, I already dont use snapcaster because I think he's too heavy for what he does and for my manabase, snapcaster AND dack would be really heavy, at least for more agressive UR decks
He would be cool if his ultimate was good for UR delver since the only permanent-targeting spells we use are lightnings, which kills most of legacy creatures
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When I play UR Delver burn, I didn't play Daze at all. You want your lands in the battlefield and not in the hand. Consider that I didn't play Wasteland and Stifle too. I was on a plan with Chain Lighting and Price of Progress, very similar to Andrew Schneider List. If you go to a Wasteland+Stifle plan, I consider always play a full playset of Daze.
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 True-Name Nemesis
3 Young Pyromancer
Spells (30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Forked Bolt
2 Price of Progress
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blood Moon
2 Submerge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sudden Demise
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Gilded Drake
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
I will test it with my friends. I'm thinking in a make a counterburn style with True Name Nemesis. Maybe I play Goblin Guide in the list, because it's very powerful synergi with Price of Progress.
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
Snaps > Pyromancer any day of the week. I wouldn't want to cut Guide if I could help it.
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Mountain
1x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Volcanic Island
1x Wooded Foothills
4x Chain Lightning
4x Brainstorm
3x Daze
2x Fireblast
4x Force of Will
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Price of Progress
3x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Goblin Guide
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x True-Name Nemesis
4x Kiln fiend
4x Goblin guide
4x Delver
4x chain lightning
4x Lightning bolt
4x Price of progress
2x spell pierce
4x FOW
4x Daze
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Gitaxian Probe
4x Scalding tarn
2x Ilha
2x Montanha
2x Volcanic Island
3x Arid Mesa
3x Misty rainforest
I've been thinking about getting a fireblast (since I've only got mountains to spend one, considering my opponent will probably waste a volcanic island)
Also getting some Thunderous Wrath... I haven't seen many decklists with it, and I think its very useful since its 5 damage for 1cc and we've got brainstorms, so it usually wont be a problem sticking with it until the end without casting. The only issue is that it usually isnt worth hitting a creature, so its like a 5 damage harder to cast price of progress
Still, I really enjoy direct burn so I think thunderous wrath may find a place in the UR Delver list
I've sometimes found it hard to kill the opponent in few turns, when I had only Young Piromancer and Delvers on the deck. Now I took off the wastelands, stifles, piromancer and put chain lightning, goblin guide and Kiln fiend (I'm kinda new to this card, so I'm testing it as it seems to have great potential). With the old decklist, the game used to last enought so that my dazes and spellpierces lost their potential and the opponent used to win the game in that stage
About the 2 volcanic islands, I think with my price of progress and wastelands on the enemy side its really smarter to avoid non-basic lands. If I get only enought fetch lands to get a mountain and an Island, I just go back to basics. Still, if I have to get a volcanic island, there isnt really need for more than 2 of them and the rest filling with basic lands
Spellskite is an option.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
3 Snapcaster Mage
Counters(10)
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Spellpierce
Cantrips (8)
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Price of Progress
3 Thunderous Wrath
Lands (16)
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Shattering Spree
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Divert
2 Flusterstorm
2 Submerge
Thunderous Wrath may not always be available for casting, but its 5 damage straight to the opponent's head (if you got it in your hand you may just brainstorm it back to the top). I even killed one Elesh nor and one Griselbrand using 2 thunderous wrath and 2 lightning bolt (had to do it so that he wouldn't kill me).
Thunderous Wrath is not exactly easy to cast and it cant be flashbacked via Snapcaster (unless you get all the 6 managenerator lands on the battlefield), but I really think its worth it. Some people prefer lavaspike because its always available, but I think getting a 2/3 stronger spell is worth this risk
Its great because almost all your topdecks are good, and my opponents always thought that I was lucky, but then I realized that almost everything there is really helpful along the way
The games never lasted too long, price of progress was just amazing. The critical point here is to notice when your opponent is going to the basic way and side it out in G2/G3
About the 16 lands, more than this would be a waste. Since opponents usually cant waste you up (sometimes you will have to fetch up the volcanics, but you really must avoid it) and you dont have non-managenerating lands (wasteland), 16 is a good number (the same thing as a 20-lands-with-4wasteland)
About the side some people used to get smash to smithereens (me included) but you have to keep in mind that you will have very few chances of winning against a batterskull or a jitte, or even chalice of the void. Then the replicate just almost ensures you that you will destroy the artifact (since the opponent will have to counter the 2 or more spells, or that the chalice wont counter copys of the spell)
Relic may seem like a temporary solution, but its a great one. Having one on the battlefield just gives the opponent real pressure and in the end... you buy a card! Until now its been really great as its also a good choise also against BUG/RUG
My deck would be something like this:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
2 Snapcaster
4 Dark Confidant
Spells 30
2 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Shattering Spree
2 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Force of Will
I guess the manabase for black would be a little awkward if you sided in thoughtseizes and depended on them more than just playing some bobs. Maybe it would be cool to balance a little more the fetchlands, maybe take off an island and a mountain and put a swamp. You wouldn't ever need more than 1 black mana in each turn, and for normal decks with no basic LD the swamp would be indestructible. Maybe it would be cool to put an underground sea... My idea of manabase would be the following:
Lands 16
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
Guys please gimme your insights about this deck, I really think the black splash has a potential. Greatness, at any cost!
Does anyone have any specific starter advice/tips for the deck?
Follow up question - how do you feel about the popularity of Lava Spike in sideboards?
formely known as Wolf_Cub82
my altered cards on Facebook my altered cards on Tumblr
BurnR(Legacy)
ReanimatorUB(Legacy)
Ghave, Guru of SporesWGB(Commander)
HumansRW(Standard)
In the jund thread they say that UR Delver is a really bad matchup for them, that we are just too fast for them and that Price of Progress is the card they fear the most.
I'm not all sure how to sideboard against jund (does anyone else have some experience to share?), but the Force of Wills definitely needs to come out. I think this is one of those matchups Andrew Schneider would side in the Lava spikes to try to burn them down as fast as possible. I guess Submerge could be sided in to take care of Tarmogoyf, but I'm quite sure at least Andrew Schneider would rather have more burn and place his bets on the goyfs being to slow to make a big difference.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
formely known as Wolf_Cub82
my altered cards on Facebook my altered cards on Tumblr
BurnR(Legacy)
ReanimatorUB(Legacy)
Ghave, Guru of SporesWGB(Commander)
HumansRW(Standard)
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
the only thing I often question is daze. I love it against combo, I like it early game, but when I hit one after about turn 3 it's usually just FoW food. what is every one else's opinion on it? I saw people find FoW to be one of the worse cards of the deck but I rarely if ever see one and don't want it and I run the full 4 main. My current counter package is:
Main:
sideboard:
I'm thinking about cutting a daze for a spell snare to try it out and if I like it dropping both for it, I feel like with Stoneforge Mystic being so popular it's strong and it plays nicer with snapcaster mage.
The other problem I'm having is what to do for Graveyard hate. I'm running Relic of Progenitus but with 4 snapcasters and 3 lavamancers they hurt me more then a little. I do like them because they're strong vs Tarmogoyf and Deathrite shaman but I'm pretty strong in most match ups I see those two in anyhow. I've thought about Grafdigger's cage and tormod's crypt but I'm not completely sold on either. I need the GY hate because there is a bit of dredge & loam stuff about and dredge particularly is a rough match up. any suggestions?
Yeah I dropped the forked bolt for a fire // ice. I've not had any one pull off the depths combo on me but I can say I'm loving the Fire over forked bolt just for the instant speed. equipment is huge around my way and I've found myself a few times trying to pick the creature(s) to burn off while knowing Jitte/Cranial plating/Sword of ___ and ____ is just getting put on a different creature. being able to burn the creatures at instant speed helps alot. Though I do wonder the decks you face that have the depths combo can't you just burn them out with PoP quickly? I've got 3 main 1 sb with 4 snapcasters and most of the time I can get 2 PoP off for the kill on those decks before they can get the pieces together.
Legacy:
RGWBUDredgeUBWGR
:symrg:Belcher:symrg:
WD&TW
Affinity
WGriffinsW (pauper)
U/thopter comboU/ (peasant)
:symbg:Moosebite:symbg: (peasant)
RGobo tokensR (peasant)
R slide R (peasant)
:symur:pingers:symur:
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
formely known as Wolf_Cub82
my altered cards on Facebook my altered cards on Tumblr
BurnR(Legacy)
ReanimatorUB(Legacy)
Ghave, Guru of SporesWGB(Commander)
HumansRW(Standard)
In the matches I've played against these decks, they've got Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage out very early (like turn 2/3/4), much too fast for me to burn them down. Maybe they've been lucky against me. If they have both of these lands in their opening hand, there's nothing we can do when we don't play Wasteland or Blood Moon. Most other decks have better answers to this (Abrupt Decay, Lingering Souls, Wasteland etc.)than we do. You may be lucky with a counterspell at their Crop Rotation/ Gamble etc. or a Submerge (they don't always have forest in play as they they have other sources of green mana, including Lotus Petal/Mox Diamond etc.)
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
You got to choose how you wanna play
I play a very straight deck, which seems more like a UR Burn Delver deck (I guess this thread is more like a U/R/x Delver deck than a Snapcaster, as we are talking mostly of UR decks, and in UR decks Snapcaster isnt a core card).
IMO the core of UR decks are the following:
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
This Structure is always in UR decks. In my decks, thats the following core:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Chain Lightning
4 Price of Progress
I took off FOW because its mostly on my sides, as the meta isnt so combo-oriented. I got 2 more burning spells
What I like of my current decklist is that it's topdeck is REALLY GOOD! for a delver deck, since there are 8 cantrips (which mostly will find burn spells), 18 burn spells and 4 haste creatures. I mean, people usually say I'm too lucky for getting the right spells at the right time. But I guess its what this decklist does.
Now this is the thing I'm trying to do:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
Counters 8
2 Fluster
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
Cantrips 8
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
Burn Spells 18
4 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
2 Thunderous Wrath
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
3 Shattering Spree
2 Misdirection
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Submerge
4 Force of Will
Not having FoW and having Fluster in main might sound Weird, but its about the meta. There are a lot of delver decks, which mean a loooot of sorceries and instants, so I play fluster
There arent too many GY oriented decks, so I play only 1 relic (thinking of dropping it to 0), and reanimators can be countered. Got some UWR and artifact-based decks (chalice for 1, ewww) so I play shattering spree. Misdirection is too good to be truth when it gets it right (misdirection on hymn to tourach is like GG, or changing target of abrupt decay from delver to goyf... yeah, lots of BUG Delver around here)
Pyrokinesis is for goblins, elves and delver decks (2 insectile aberration in 1 free shot)
Submerge, yeah, bounce and 1 turn back and FOW for combo matchups
Its more about what YOU want and about the meta around you. But I will say, UR Delver is a pretty fast Delver deck, it just burns your enemies before they ever realize and got counter backups against strong decks
I'm really thinking about getting more counter for side against combo decks (from 4 to 6 or 8), to get a lot of counters and like 1 or 2 creatures hitting while you hold the combo back with counters
EDIT: I just realized it turned from U/x Snapcaster to U/r/x Delver
My deck isnt Ur, its UR Delver burn btw :]
UWR Midrange
BRG Jund
BG Rock
UR Storm
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I can see Dack being an option for play in this deck either main or sideboard. His +1 provides fuel for Snapcaster while simultaneously sculpting our hand. And his -2 is relevant against several Legacy decks.
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BurnR(Legacy)
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HumansRW(Standard)
Seems cool, but snapcaster and dack on the same deck? I mean, I already dont use snapcaster because I think he's too heavy for what he does and for my manabase, snapcaster AND dack would be really heavy, at least for more agressive UR decks
He would be cool if his ultimate was good for UR delver since the only permanent-targeting spells we use are lightnings, which kills most of legacy creatures