I've built a fairly standard Merfolk deck, picked up some Forces for a great price, but I'm left with a conundrum: since I don't have Wasteland, and don't really have the funds to get them, I'm not sure what to do with my mana base.
I currently am running 16 island / 4 mutavault, and am considering taking it down to 14 Island / 4 Mutavault, but am worried that such would leave me with too few Islands. I'm just getting into the format (yet to play in any sort of tourney) so I don't have a feel for how often Wasteland gets sacrificed vs. kept around to produce mana. My current deck list:
What I'm thinking of doing with those two MD slots would be to put in copies of Kira, Great Glass-Spinner. I have Jitte in the MD because the meta I play in is very creature heavy with few combo decks. I have two copies of Llawan, Cephalid Empress to put in the SB (probably for 1x Back to Basics and the 1x Blue Elemental Blast) should another Merfolk deck enter the meta here. Does this take my land base too low? I've had good experiences with Chill so far, but have seem most lists run BeB instead. Advice on SB composition would be much appreciated. Is it ever worth running with 2x Standstill? I thought of taking those out for two copies of Merfolk Sovereign.
I also had one idea for my matches against Zoo-type decks, which although striking me as horrible, just might be worth trying: Pongify. I know that it's a terrible card, but I'd much rather fight a 3/3 Ape which I can overpower with a few lords out than a giant Goyf or KotR. I'm desperately racking my brain for some sort of mono-U removal spell since I don't have the mana base or desire to splash white for PtE.
I think mind harness or threads of disloyalty work better than pognify, especially since they help you win the game faster. I run 2 of each in my board. Threads is good in the mirror
I am also anticipating combo, TES, ANT, to pick up steam in my local meta, and now that I have the fetches and Underground Seas I am thinking to SB with 3 Chalice of the Void and 4 Thoughtseize, yet, if these MUs are insignificant I am thinking Thoughtseize is still useful and to leave out the Chalices.
Thoughts, anyone?
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What would you suggest I add vs. those two? Chill is supposed to help against Goblins, and I've got the 2x Submerge vs. Zoo. I could add more Blue Elemental Blast vs. Goblins, but what could I take out besides 1x of the Back to Basics? Echoing Truth is there against Dredge and general utility. Do people think that I could safely go down to 18 lands so I can add those copies of Kira?
I'm just started playing Merfolk and am very interested in a match up guide or an competitive sideboard guide, not sure what's a good sideboard or even how to play out some match ups.
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Imperial Painter
The Jittes could become Kiras if you want. Otherwise, I'm not sure Chill is my favorite answer to Goblins. The worst things about Goblins for Merfolk are Lackey, Vial and Ringleader. Two of those cost 1 and get Ringleader or other stuff into play for free... I like more BEBs/Hydroblasts. These can also come in against Zoo and counter burn spells or kill Lavamancers. Another card I like in my SB sometimes is Mind Harness.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
So I played this UW build this past sunday at my store and went 4-1-0, not losing a single game til the 5th round. I topped 4'd and finish the tourney in second. So first off heres the decklist.
I gotta say, I really really like the UW build a lot. As far as splashes go I like it more than black. However that being said, I almost never even used the white and never got the SFM + swords package online. Mono blue gets me basically every win and I'm thinking that that's still the strongest. My matches went like this:
Round 1: Green Beatdown? (2-0)
Some wierd monogreen deck. I out aggro him by far in the first game and game 2 I draw both hibernations. Easy win
Round 2: BR Goblins (2-0)
Game one he keeps a slow hand and I out aggro him plain and simple. He tries to control me with a port but I get at least 3 land drops in a row. Game 2 is more or less the same thing. His first creature is goblin matron and he fetches for a vexing susher which is funny cause I sideboard out most all my counters. I beat him with swords to plowshare still in hand
Round 3: Spring Tide (without Candalabra) (2-0)
Game 1 I know what hes playing and keep a hand with only 1 land being a wasteland and aether vial with 3 cursecatcher. He thinks im playing goblins cause of the wasteland, forces the vial pitching a force and punts the game. He scooped a few turns later. Game 2 I beat him with the sloooowest clock. Silvergill and cursecatcher go all the way while I have 2 FoW (with pitches), 2 Spell Pierce, and 2 Daze in hand. He comes extremely close to going off but is 1 land short on comboing off.
Round 4: TES (2-0)
Pretty good matchup here. Game 1 he combos off, but I sac a cursecatcher which stops a single copy of tendrils and I go to 2 life! I proceed by beating away to game 2. Game 2 I get him to 11 and he gets ad-naseum off but ends up killing himself and doesn't draw into what he needs
Round 5: Sneak and Show (0-2)
Game 1 he gets off an emrakuel game 1 with Ancient Tomb and Lotus Petal. I don't have FoW. Game 2 I counter him out almost all the way but he finally gets a show and tell off and wins. Not sure what happened there in game 2. I thought I had it but he got there. Anyways I go to the top 4 just making it.
Top 4. Round 1: Sneak and Show (2-0)
I play the same sneak and show guy here and just dominate him both games. My deck plays how it should game 1 and I beat him down to 13. Eventually he gets a show and tell off dropping a Blightsteal Collosus. At the end of his turn I swords to plowshare it and beat the rest of the way. Game 2 he gets stuck for a while on 2 lands and I take advantage beating him down to 11. He gets show and tell off but I drop a 3rd lord and draw into another one the next turn for the win with island walk.
Round 2: Merfolk (0-2)
He beats him game 1 by getting better creatures and going first :(. Game 2 I get stuck on 1 land until the very end of the game. I had sword of fire and ice in my hand
Funny, I play mono-u but always wish I had more than one Tundra or some Flooded Strands so I could splash for Swords, and here you are playing that and saying mono-u might just be best.
Question - was it hard to side in that giant Stoneforge package? (giggle). Seriously, that's 6 cards to bring in. I'm wondering if maybe you could go to 2 Stoneforges and throw them in the main instead of the Sovereign, then find room for a Jitte and a SoFI and maybe a SoLS and SoFF in the board for specific matchups. What do you think of that?
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
I only say that it may be the best because its what won me basically every game and that's been true for me since I've been playing merfolk. Also, I was thinking about running stoneforge w/ swords mainboard but there were 2 reasons that I didn't want to. 1. I never like to show my opponent I'm splashing til game and 2. I felt that it would bring synergy away from the deck. I would only want that package mainboard against aggro and I usually find myself paired against more combo oriented decks. It's definitely an awesome package though and I think it comes down to preference if you wanted to do it MB. I know I considered it seriously for a while.
Also about sideboarding the package: I never really found myself having a hard time when choosing what to side out. I only brought it in against goblins, mono g, and merfolk. Only one of the swords made it when I did sideboard + jitte always so its 5 not 6. When I'm siding against aggro decks though I've pretty much always cut down on counters to be more aggressive.
The decks that I had a harder time playing against were combo decks. I wasn't sure if I should be playing standstill cause I felt it may have slowed my clock and I wanted 100% pressure. I never sided them out against combo but I was very unsure about laying them down when I did.
My understanding is that submerges are good for other matchups as well, so they are good in the sideboard.
They're actually pretty amazing in this deck. The fact that its free is just godly for this deck since it allows us to beat in harder and faster. They don't target progentius, but you could run Llawan for that.
They don't target progentius, but you could run Llawan for that.
I'd rather run Hibernation if you're worried about Prog. It costs 1 less and most decks that play Prog mainly play green creatures, so it bounces their other dudes too. And no one is ever gonna hardcast Prog, so the "can't play blue creatures" clause doesn't matter. The only reason I'd ever recommend Llawan over Hibernation is if your meta is extremely Merfolk heavy, but even then, Hibernation is relevant because of Tarmogoyf and KotR.
Oh I know and I totally agree. For some reason I keep thinking submerge is 'target green creature'. I really need to pick up a playset soon though. I've never used them but they just sound soo good in a deck like this.
Has anyone been playing fish at all these SCG opens? I'm gonna be playing in Boston this month which means I've got 20 days to come up with the build and sideboard I want. I'm really curious as to what other peoples sideboards looked like though going into a huge tournament like this. This will be my first tournament like this and I'm really not sure what to expect.
Personally I think I'd want Llawan and Hibernation in my SB, and would bring both in against Progenitus decks. If I were bringing Merfolk to a starcity, I'd probably want a lot of red and green hate cards in the SB, and something for the mirror. Maybe even maindeck Jittes, since they are good against stuff you're likely to see in the early rounds. And hope Painter's Servant isn't popular this time around.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
Personally I think I'd want Llawan and Hibernation in my SB, and would bring both in against Progenitus decks. If I were bringing Merfolk to a starcity, I'd probably want a lot of red and green hate cards in the SB, and something for the mirror. Maybe even maindeck Jittes, since they are good against stuff you're likely to see in the early rounds. And hope Painter's Servant isn't popular this time around.
How is Painter's Servant all that strong against Merfolk? How does that matchup go, because I would think that our control elements would keep them from going off early. Also maybe Needles or Null Rods in the SB?
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[Legacy]
ANT
Imperial Painter
They play Force of Will and like 6 1cc Counterspell/Vindicates, and taxing counters are ineffective since the combo pieces only cost 1 or 2 and they have a ton of accel (Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Mox Opal, LED). They can also recover countered pieces of the combo with Goblin Welder and can play a ton of tutors like Trinket Mage, Imperial Recruiter, and even Enlightened Tutor with a white splash.
They play Force of Will and like 6 1cc Counterspell/Vindicates, and taxing counters are ineffective since the combo pieces only cost 1 or 2 and they have a ton of accel (Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Mox Opal, LED). They can also recover countered pieces of the combo with Goblin Welder and can play a ton of tutors like Trinket Mage, Imperial Recruiter, and even Enlightened Tutor with a white splash.
So do you think it's just a bad match up, post board? If your expecting lots of this combo in your meta what would you board for it? Null Rod, Pithing Needle, something else?
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Imperial Painter
Honestly, I would probably just accept the loss. (Are you actually expecting a lot of it? It's not typically a popular deck.) Would the benefits of Null Rod outweigh shutting off Vial? I'd also just pack bounce cards, Echoing Truth is one I always play, but you can also consider Rebuild or Hurkyl's Recall.
Honestly, I would probably just accept the loss. (Are you actually expecting a lot of it? It's not typically a popular deck.) Would the benefits of Null Rod outweigh shutting off Vial? I'd also just pack bounce cards, Echoing Truth is one I always play, but you can also consider Rebuild or Hurkyl's Recall.
I'm not expecting a ton of it, however it did just post good results, and it's relatively inexpensive so I expect the number of decks to increase.
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[Legacy]
ANT
Imperial Painter
Yeah, it's a terrible matchup, mainly due to the main deck REB/Pyroblasts and Goblin Welders. Between the recent success of Painter's and that of Affinity, I think it's time for 4 Hurkyl's Recall to go in all Merfolk sideboards, and hopefully people will find a more effective artifact hate card than that. I almost would play Null Rod and just side out the Vials for them in these instances, since both of those matchups are pretty bad. Then again they'll probably just drop Painter's Servant naming blue and Pyroblast the Rod anyways.
My only other idea is to throw an Emrakul in your sideboard so that you can put it in the deck and be immune to Grindstone.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
I am having a tough time with what to do also. I have a big tourney tomorrow and not sure what I want to sb. needle/null rod or something else vs the artifact decks. needle seems okay and I can also name other stuff. null rod is probably only needed if you expect to face affinity lots, otherwise it doesn't really do anything vs the other artifact decks (kinda slow, shuts of vial)
I have thought about the 1 of emrakul in the sb, which might work for one game but they will also bring in grave yard hate or show and tell emrakul for g2/3.
I might try the 1 of emrakul
For my tourney I expect a lot of combo with some show natural order.. Not really sure what sb to run
I currently am running 16 island / 4 mutavault, and am considering taking it down to 14 Island / 4 Mutavault, but am worried that such would leave me with too few Islands. I'm just getting into the format (yet to play in any sort of tourney) so I don't have a feel for how often Wasteland gets sacrificed vs. kept around to produce mana. My current deck list:
4x Cursecatcher
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Coralhelm Commander
4x Merrow Reejeray
Spells:
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
2x Spell Pierce
4x Standstill
Artifacts:
2x Umezawa's Jitte
4x AEther Vial
Lands:
16x Island
4x Mutavault
3x Back to Basics
3x Chill
2x Echoing Truth
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Submerge
2x Sower of Temptation
1x Blue Elemental Blast
What I'm thinking of doing with those two MD slots would be to put in copies of Kira, Great Glass-Spinner. I have Jitte in the MD because the meta I play in is very creature heavy with few combo decks. I have two copies of Llawan, Cephalid Empress to put in the SB (probably for 1x Back to Basics and the 1x Blue Elemental Blast) should another Merfolk deck enter the meta here. Does this take my land base too low? I've had good experiences with Chill so far, but have seem most lists run BeB instead. Advice on SB composition would be much appreciated. Is it ever worth running with 2x Standstill? I thought of taking those out for two copies of Merfolk Sovereign.
I also had one idea for my matches against Zoo-type decks, which although striking me as horrible, just might be worth trying: Pongify. I know that it's a terrible card, but I'd much rather fight a 3/3 Ape which I can overpower with a few lords out than a giant Goyf or KotR. I'm desperately racking my brain for some sort of mono-U removal spell since I don't have the mana base or desire to splash white for PtE.
Thoughts, anyone?
[Legacy]
ANT
Imperial Painter
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Cursecatcher
4x Merrow Reejeray
4x CorallHelm Commander
2x Merfolk Sovereign
Spells:
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
3x Swords to Plowshare
3x Standstill
Artifacts:
4x Aether Vial
Lands:
3x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
3x Wasteland
4x Mutavault
1x Tundra
1x Plains
4x Island
3x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of feast and famine
2x Hibernation
3x Spell Pierce
3x Echoing Truth
I gotta say, I really really like the UW build a lot. As far as splashes go I like it more than black. However that being said, I almost never even used the white and never got the SFM + swords package online. Mono blue gets me basically every win and I'm thinking that that's still the strongest. My matches went like this:
Round 1: Green Beatdown? (2-0)
Some wierd monogreen deck. I out aggro him by far in the first game and game 2 I draw both hibernations. Easy win
Round 2: BR Goblins (2-0)
Game one he keeps a slow hand and I out aggro him plain and simple. He tries to control me with a port but I get at least 3 land drops in a row. Game 2 is more or less the same thing. His first creature is goblin matron and he fetches for a vexing susher which is funny cause I sideboard out most all my counters. I beat him with swords to plowshare still in hand
Round 3: Spring Tide (without Candalabra) (2-0)
Game 1 I know what hes playing and keep a hand with only 1 land being a wasteland and aether vial with 3 cursecatcher. He thinks im playing goblins cause of the wasteland, forces the vial pitching a force and punts the game. He scooped a few turns later. Game 2 I beat him with the sloooowest clock. Silvergill and cursecatcher go all the way while I have 2 FoW (with pitches), 2 Spell Pierce, and 2 Daze in hand. He comes extremely close to going off but is 1 land short on comboing off.
Round 4: TES (2-0)
Pretty good matchup here. Game 1 he combos off, but I sac a cursecatcher which stops a single copy of tendrils and I go to 2 life! I proceed by beating away to game 2. Game 2 I get him to 11 and he gets ad-naseum off but ends up killing himself and doesn't draw into what he needs
Round 5: Sneak and Show (0-2)
Game 1 he gets off an emrakuel game 1 with Ancient Tomb and Lotus Petal. I don't have FoW. Game 2 I counter him out almost all the way but he finally gets a show and tell off and wins. Not sure what happened there in game 2. I thought I had it but he got there. Anyways I go to the top 4 just making it.
Top 4. Round 1: Sneak and Show (2-0)
I play the same sneak and show guy here and just dominate him both games. My deck plays how it should game 1 and I beat him down to 13. Eventually he gets a show and tell off dropping a Blightsteal Collosus. At the end of his turn I swords to plowshare it and beat the rest of the way. Game 2 he gets stuck for a while on 2 lands and I take advantage beating him down to 11. He gets show and tell off but I drop a 3rd lord and draw into another one the next turn for the win with island walk.
Round 2: Merfolk (0-2)
He beats him game 1 by getting better creatures and going first :(. Game 2 I get stuck on 1 land until the very end of the game. I had sword of fire and ice in my hand
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
Question - was it hard to side in that giant Stoneforge package? (giggle). Seriously, that's 6 cards to bring in. I'm wondering if maybe you could go to 2 Stoneforges and throw them in the main instead of the Sovereign, then find room for a Jitte and a SoFI and maybe a SoLS and SoFF in the board for specific matchups. What do you think of that?
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
Also about sideboarding the package: I never really found myself having a hard time when choosing what to side out. I only brought it in against goblins, mono g, and merfolk. Only one of the swords made it when I did sideboard + jitte always so its 5 not 6. When I'm siding against aggro decks though I've pretty much always cut down on counters to be more aggressive.
The decks that I had a harder time playing against were combo decks. I wasn't sure if I should be playing standstill cause I felt it may have slowed my clock and I wanted 100% pressure. I never sided them out against combo but I was very unsure about laying them down when I did.
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=399504
I'm currently playing Perish and Engineered Plague, but a mono blue option would be hibernation/submerges.
My understanding is that submerges are good for other matchups as well, so they are good in the sideboard.
[Legacy]
ANT
Imperial Painter
They're actually pretty amazing in this deck. The fact that its free is just godly for this deck since it allows us to beat in harder and faster. They don't target progentius, but you could run Llawan for that.
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
I'd rather run Hibernation if you're worried about Prog. It costs 1 less and most decks that play Prog mainly play green creatures, so it bounces their other dudes too. And no one is ever gonna hardcast Prog, so the "can't play blue creatures" clause doesn't matter. The only reason I'd ever recommend Llawan over Hibernation is if your meta is extremely Merfolk heavy, but even then, Hibernation is relevant because of Tarmogoyf and KotR.
ゆっくりしていってね!!!
Has anyone been playing fish at all these SCG opens? I'm gonna be playing in Boston this month which means I've got 20 days to come up with the build and sideboard I want. I'm really curious as to what other peoples sideboards looked like though going into a huge tournament like this. This will be my first tournament like this and I'm really not sure what to expect.
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
How is Painter's Servant all that strong against Merfolk? How does that matchup go, because I would think that our control elements would keep them from going off early. Also maybe Needles or Null Rods in the SB?
[Legacy]
ANT
Imperial Painter
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
ゆっくりしていってね!!!
So do you think it's just a bad match up, post board? If your expecting lots of this combo in your meta what would you board for it? Null Rod, Pithing Needle, something else?
[Legacy]
ANT
Imperial Painter
ゆっくりしていってね!!!
I'm not expecting a ton of it, however it did just post good results, and it's relatively inexpensive so I expect the number of decks to increase.
[Legacy]
ANT
Imperial Painter
My only other idea is to throw an Emrakul in your sideboard so that you can put it in the deck and be immune to Grindstone.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
I have thought about the 1 of emrakul in the sb, which might work for one game but they will also bring in grave yard hate or show and tell emrakul for g2/3.
I might try the 1 of emrakul
For my tourney I expect a lot of combo with some show natural order.. Not really sure what sb to run
15 island, 2 mutavualts, 4 waste, 26 creatures
prolly going to be basically beat graveyard and combo control. I hate not having echoing truth..... Not sure about the needles