5/12/19, test vs D&T, 2-5.
we both boarded after g1.
notes: i lost g3 after he flickerwisp'd my lone RIP in response to helm activation. what made me sad was i had another RIP in hand )'=
notes2: losing repeatedly was painful. however, i was gratified in my prediction that D&T would be bad for me.
which list did you test? I was a bit confused with the testing part.
Also curious, what did you have as a sort of plan for the deck? Is it combo off kinda quickly or try to lock down the game? or tempo-ish and then combo off? If you wanna speed up, i'd suggest adding a LED or two.
I wish i've had the money to actually try out the land tax/scroll rack engine, but i imagine that it's very complicated to run, since you have to speficially have fewer lands than your opponent, AND use mana to activate the rack, AND increase your tempo in-game.
If you're going to do a painter deck splashing white, aethersworn canonist is good to slowing your opponent down. not as relevant against DnT though.
my plan for both lists is to go off reasonably fast, while still being consistent. the removal is there to buy time. you'd be surprised how difficult it can be to assemble a 2-piece combo, even w/all the cantrips in the world.
i had the tax/rack combo since extended or 1.x was a thing. it can be hard to use vs land light builds, like elves or burn.
I honestly think that transmute artifact, whir of invention and trinket mage would get your combo out faster. 12 cantrips are good, but they don’t advance your game. Some number of specific tutors means that you’ll get exactly what u need is always helpful. It also means that you can run a 1-of bridge, explosives, and not hamper your overall tempo too much.
True enough for canonist. Have u tried against grixis, miracles, or other ux delvers?
yea, i get what you mean. Finding players to test can be tough (i only play on paper).
actually, having looked over your list a bit, i'm not extremely convinced that it's going to be consistent enough against most decks. It looks quite durdly and fragile. Unlike most tempo/control lists, you also run a lot of cantrips, but the cantrips are not to ask questions or answer questions; they're mostly to just find the combo. But in not directly interacting with your opponent, i'm not sure giving your opponent time to find responses to your things to be a good idea.
my "Painter's Tax" list runs 2 enlightened tutor. as long as i have half a tax/rack or painter's/stone, i'll immediately tutor for the missing piece.
i've tried trinket mage in "Painter's Tax" before:
1. it's blue (force of will)
2. it fetches grindstone and relic of progenitus/tormod's crypt (replaces RIP.)
3. it ruins land tax by brining my mana curve ceiling from 2 lands to 3 lands.
not going to lie, i'm disappointed by how durdley my lists are. if half of the combo dies, all my cantrips have to be spent finding the other piece. but i'm going to keep them as is until i'm convinced of a better plan.
no fetches, using preordains and antiquities war as search engines (as well as trinket mages). often, sai + retrofitter is good enough to amass a small army while TAW is ticking up for you to 'ultimate' and just run over your opponents (while you use most your resources to find the combo).
Unfortunately, no scroll rack/land tax. I'm not really sure why this engine isn't working well for painter lists, but it somehow isn't. Maybe it's the thought of having to tutor up a 2-part card engine to get your 2-card winning combo that's simply too slow.
actually, maybe that's the thing; painter/grindstone needs a lot of mana to work (you're either having to power everything out and threaten combo in one go, or build piece by piece and protect it), and you can't really afford to be durdling about cantripping or restricting your land-drops to make tax/rack active.
mana curve tops out at 2 to enable Land Tax.
4 brainstorm
4 fieldmist borderpost (enables Land Tax)
4 force of will
4 ponder
4 spell pierce (enables Land Tax, not Daze b/c we need 3 mana to Grindstone)
2 preordain
(14) combos:
4 land tax
4 painter’s servant (call "blue" to discard lands to Force of Will)
3 grindstone
3 scroll rack
4 swords to plowshares (Path to Exile may enable Land Tax but it also disables Spell Pierce and Chill)
2 enlightened tutor
1 rest in peace (Eldrazi, etc.)
1 seal of cleansing
(16) lands:
7 island
4 flooded strand (sac-fail to enable Land Tax)
4 tundra
1 plains
4 chill (enables Land Tax)
4 submerge
3 disenchant (not Seal of Cleansing b/c of Sorcerous Spyglass)
2 rest in peace
1 blue elemental blast
1 hydroblast
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
4 brainstorm
4 daze (tap out for Helm)
4 force of will
4 jace beleren (draw engine)
4 ponder
4 preordain
2 detention sphere
2 supreme verdict
4 helm of obedience
4 rest in peace
(4) other:
4 swords to plowshares (Path to Exile non-bos w/Daze and Wasteland)
(20) lands:
4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
4 tundra
4 wasteland
3 island
1 plains
4 submerge
4 warmth
2 blue elemental blast
2 detention sphere
2 hydroblast
1 supreme verdict
5/12/19, test vs D&T, 2-5.
we both boarded after g1.
notes: i lost g3 after he flickerwisp'd my lone RIP in response to helm activation. what made me sad was i had another RIP in hand )'=
notes2: losing repeatedly was painful. however, i was gratified in my prediction that D&T would be bad for me.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
Also curious, what did you have as a sort of plan for the deck? Is it combo off kinda quickly or try to lock down the game? or tempo-ish and then combo off? If you wanna speed up, i'd suggest adding a LED or two.
I wish i've had the money to actually try out the land tax/scroll rack engine, but i imagine that it's very complicated to run, since you have to speficially have fewer lands than your opponent, AND use mana to activate the rack, AND increase your tempo in-game.
If you're going to do a painter deck splashing white, aethersworn canonist is good to slowing your opponent down. not as relevant against DnT though.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
my plan for both lists is to go off reasonably fast, while still being consistent. the removal is there to buy time. you'd be surprised how difficult it can be to assemble a 2-piece combo, even w/all the cantrips in the world.
i had the tax/rack combo since extended or 1.x was a thing. it can be hard to use vs land light builds, like elves or burn.
ethersworn canonist would hamper my own cantrips.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
True enough for canonist. Have u tried against grixis, miracles, or other ux delvers?
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
nah, i sparingly get to test legacy. my interest had only peaked recently.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
actually, having looked over your list a bit, i'm not extremely convinced that it's going to be consistent enough against most decks. It looks quite durdly and fragile. Unlike most tempo/control lists, you also run a lot of cantrips, but the cantrips are not to ask questions or answer questions; they're mostly to just find the combo. But in not directly interacting with your opponent, i'm not sure giving your opponent time to find responses to your things to be a good idea.
I think the general direction most painter lists go are either full-combo or full-prison/stompy. If you wanna go full combo, some number of enlightened tutor, trinket mage, transmute artifact, whir of invention, the antiquities war would help. If you wanna go stompy, i'd recommend chalice of the void as a start.
So far, i've got 2-3 different painter lists dependant on how i feel; a mono blue prison, a mono blue combo, and imperial painter with heavier prison elements. my mono blue prison build runs typical stompy shell plus 25 lands, crucible of worlds and back to basics, but i suspect that the imperial painter prison build is just going to be better. (think karn, the great creator, mycosynth lattice, goblin welder, gorilla shaman, grim monolith.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
i've tried trinket mage in "Painter's Tax" before:
1. it's blue (force of will)
2. it fetches grindstone and relic of progenitus/tormod's crypt (replaces RIP.)
3. it ruins land tax by brining my mana curve ceiling from 2 lands to 3 lands.
not going to lie, i'm disappointed by how durdley my lists are. if half of the combo dies, all my cantrips have to be spent finding the other piece. but i'm going to keep them as is until i'm convinced of a better plan.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
I think my blue combo list was:
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Darksteel Citadel
1 Inventors' Fair
6 Island
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Painter's Servant
3 Sai, Master Thopterist
1 Spellskite
4 Trinket Mage
1 Walking Ballista
4 Preordain
2 Aether Spellbomb
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Grindstone
4 Mox Opal
1 Pithing Needle
1 Retrofitter Foundry
4 The Antiquities War
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Flusterstorm
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
no fetches, using preordains and antiquities war as search engines (as well as trinket mages). often, sai + retrofitter is good enough to amass a small army while TAW is ticking up for you to 'ultimate' and just run over your opponents (while you use most your resources to find the combo).
Unfortunately, no scroll rack/land tax. I'm not really sure why this engine isn't working well for painter lists, but it somehow isn't. Maybe it's the thought of having to tutor up a 2-part card engine to get your 2-card winning combo that's simply too slow.
actually, maybe that's the thing; painter/grindstone needs a lot of mana to work (you're either having to power everything out and threaten combo in one go, or build piece by piece and protect it), and you can't really afford to be durdling about cantripping or restricting your land-drops to make tax/rack active.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
4 back to basics
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 ponder
4 trinket mage
2 echoing truth
2 snapcaster mage
4 grindstone
4 painter’s servant
4 spellskite
1 pithing needle
1 tormod’s crypt
(22) land
16 island fetch
6 island
4 submerge
3 blue elemental blast
3 hydroblast
1 echoing truth
1 pithing needle
1 seat of the synod
1 snapcaster mage
1 tormod's crypt
this version is influenced from schweinefett. more essentials, less bells and whistles.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo